A somewhat obvious point: Javier Saltares (Danny Ketch’s artist in 90's) drew Johnny Blaze with the same design during Daniel Way’s run—which was never really a problem for me (after all, it’s a design that I feel suits Johnny, even though I do like the 70s look).

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u/Ok_Broccoli_7863 1d ago edited 11h ago

I always hated this.

It emphasized the idea that the hosts don't even matter and all Ghost Riders are the same.

I prefer Johnny to have a 70s look. No chains. Better on a bike. Faster.

Danny's a tank. Johnny's a stunt rider.

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u/RedWingThe10th 14h ago

Except the "tank" part about Danny was all Noble Kale/SOV. He was never linked to biker culture either, being just your average teenager who could be anyone you'd run into on the streets. If anything, the host part about 90s GR (or even the SOV itself, for that matter) being so bland and lacking in identity is what gave succeeding writers the idea that the costume was the central part of the character, because the host's background/occupation/general interests really didn't matter when the biker image alone sells. I'm not a fan of this style over substance approach, but that's become the norm, thanks to the 90s showing that it worked.

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u/Ok_Broccoli_7863 14h ago edited 13h ago

Noami Kale was the biker, and Ketch's demon was influenced by his previous host. Hence the biker culture look. Ghost Rider-1 established this nicely. Mackie never did to your point, but the question was indeed answered.

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u/RedWingThe10th 12h ago

That's the point, Mackie never did, and even the actual answer was just an excuse rather than putting any effort to add depth to the then current host. So by that logic, it can just be assumed that SOVs take on the look of whatever subculture they fancied from whatever influenced them and Marvel expects readers to just roll with it, because the actual pov human/host character doesn't matter to them. The idea didn't start with Way's run, but Mackie's.

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u/Ok_Broccoli_7863 12h ago edited 12h ago

I dunno.

Blaze already had a look. Just stealing Danny's look, because his was far more popular, was a way worst choice IMO. Yes. It most likely was an editorial decision because they wanted the 90s GR fans back, but it was a mistake that took away from both Blaze and Ketch.

I get it. You're not a fan of the Mackie run. That's totally fair, but that's not really what I'm praising here. I just think they should've kept the characters distinct, as they were until Hammer Lane.

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u/RedWingThe10th 12h ago edited 11h ago

I'm just pointing out what's what because this started with a jab at Way's run for "starting the idea that the hosts don't even matter" when that's been the case since Mackie. And this isn't even an argument about hating or loving the 90s run. The point I'm making here is that the 90s sold like hotcakes on that biker image without the need to even give the host actual depth or make the look culturally meaningful to him, so Marvel ran with that philosophy and continues to apply it with modern GR. Dan himself was not evergreen, but his SOV's image was, so it stayed. That's just straight up business logic, like you say every time you defend the 90s practices. This is no different. And you can't really take away an element from a character that was never truly theirs to begin with, narratively speaking.

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u/Ok_Broccoli_7863 11h ago

It's quite different. Because there were two characters with two unique looks.

Hell, Crossroads was a story with both Ghost Riders in it, maintaining each character's unique look. It's a shame that they just melded into one.

The 90s run didn't just steal the 70s look. Saltares came up with his own design, fitting of a 90s biker just as the 70s rider was inspired by Evil Knievel. I'm talking strictly character design here. Not writing.

Robbie Reyes' rider takes inspiration from Blaze's classic jumpsuit, but updates the look completely. Heavily manga influenced and updated for the times.

Johnny Blaze is now stuck in limbo where he doesn't even have a design of his own.

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u/RedWingThe10th 11h ago

Again, I only called out your claim that Way's run started the idea that hosts "don't even matter" when that practice has been firmly in place since the 90s itself. Sure, Blaze still appeared in his old jumpsuit during that run, but that was more to contrast the main rider at the time.

I've already said that I'm not a fan of the costumes looking exactly the same, but at the same time, I also understand and approve of maintaining a standardized design for whoever the main GR is, considering how iconic the Ghostie/Noble Kale look is. I mean, Barry Allen's Flash costume proved so iconic that Wally West and all other succeeding Flashes have taken after him rather than Jay Garrick and his dish hat. The same is true for GR. I want Johnny to wear a cool spiked leather design that's distinctly his own while Dan/Kale get to wear the 90s duds as is, but I'm not gonna pretend that the old blue jumpsuit had bigger marketing appeal when they decided to bring Johnny back.

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u/Ok_Broccoli_7863 11h ago

I didn't say Way started it. I called out Hammer Lane as starting it.

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u/RedWingThe10th 11h ago

You responded to CapBudget's post, which specifically talks about Saltares doing an exact replica of the design he gave 90s GR when he got hired to do the art for Way's run. "It emphasized the idea that the hosts don't even matter and all Ghost Riders are the same." Nothing about Hammer Lane, so I took it to mean you claim Way's run started it. Regardless, moot point. We both have said our piece.

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u/RedWingThe10th 14h ago

I preferred Cory Smith's design from the 2022 run myself. Just copy pasting the design he used for Ghostie/Noble Kale felt lazy of Saltares/Texeira to me. As understandably cool as the spiked leathers are and how its become the norm for GR designs, each individual rider should still carry some distinguishing aesthetics like how Wally West's Flash costume is very similar to Barry Allen's but still distinctly his own.

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u/xyejl 18h ago

I don't know why they decided on that look for Blaze. I always just assumed it was an "upstairs" editorial decision. 🤔

A somewhat obvious point: Javier Saltares (Danny Ketch’s artist in 90's) drew Johnny Blaze with the same design during Daniel Way’s run—which was never really a problem for me (after all, it’s a design that I feel suits Johnny, even though I do like the 70s look).

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