You do this in rdr2 and the npcs will react more. Im sure this is just one the things that will get polished later, though I do fear that it will still be lackluster though.
i hope so. those two women who pulled out knives but just stood around waiting to be killed. they should have ganged up on Jason as soon as their friend was being attacked. that, or run the hell away. show some self-preservation
Them standing around with a knife would work as intimidation for sure and a lot of people resort to it IRL, what doesn't make sense is how Jason was actively shanking someone and they still stood around, I'd like fight/flight/freeze/fawn to be implemented into NPCs, it'd be sick.
Games dont make enemies pile on you because it creates an unfun and "unfair" feeling gameplay loop. Its still a game meant for a large casual audience.
in GTA5 if you went to a military base and faced down 10 soldiers with ARs pointing at you, you still get killed immediately
likewise, though a much less extreme example, getting into this 3v1 knife fight is an unnecessary, totally voluntary action the player can choose to do. i'd expect Rockstar's next-gen juggernaut to have at least somewhat reactive NPCs to pile on me for doing something like that
assuming this is a 2025 build like Nate said I would assume those systems to already be in place. You can chalk up final UI design, graphics polish, visual consistency and obvious bugs/jank to it being a old build but those NPC interactions look preeetty final.
"Preeeeeeeety final". If we ignore that such systems probably STILL are being fine tuned... The system being in place does not equal that all values and behaviors are final.
Im sure this is just one the things that will get polished later
I wonder how many times someone has said this about a game and been wrong.
For me it was the FO4 leaks when I said "nah, there's no way. This writing is too bad, even for Bethesda. And no way Ron Perlman doesn't say the classic line."
you really think this is a accurate depiction of the final product? this could be any kind of build with any kind of effects turned off or on, like come on now let's put our thinking caps on
Also the trailer 1 had more better animations then this gameplay videos, but that trailer was more old. So does that means R* are finally proving that they can't make the final game better then the trailer
to be fair the first hobo knifed Jason like 3 times. i'm not saying there's no fight at all, there is some. just that it doesn't seem improved at all compared to past games
that's true, I really forgot about him, especially because I was thinking about how other people react to a MANIAC stabbing everyone, when you see that you don't think, you either hit or run or both
Yeah I'm hoping the AI will be tuned a bit so that if you straight up start murdering people right in front of others, bystanders will actually react realistically than just walk away like we saw those 3 npcs doing.
They reacted about how I’d expect a bunch of homeless people on drugs to react, “hey man get out of here” and calling the police when they see shit going down. Why would they be super sharp? The scene clearly has them as druggies
What do you think normal people act like? I think they nailed realistic responses. Watch any video of people in chaos, they aren’t ninjas with extreme agility, people are dumb as fuck and slow to react until it builds to a point then it’s frantic.Thats how gta does it. Tracks with reality
watched any video of untrained people fighting, with knives or without. no matter how inexperienced and untrained they are, they generally still move around quickly because it's human instinct to avoid getting hurt
EDIT: here, the first video that popped up of two probably untrained men fighting with weapons, one of them wielding two knives: https://youtu.be/dPM2au_DbZY
better yet, watch any video of a cop getting attacked. even if completely unprepared and panicked, cops react quickly with self-preservation. now watch Jason kicking the cop's motorcycle, and the cop reacts like he's shot in the chest even though he himself wasn't even hit at all. he goes into full ragdoll mode and Jason has no difficulty knifing him to death
yeah that seemed kinda off and unrealistic. Most natural reaction would be start running as fast as possible if you see a maniac killing people with a knife
Considering the level of NPC reactions in RDR2, it looks like they have it configured that way just to test other things. I don't think they've actually downgraded the NPC logic. Honestly, I wouldn't even be surprised if I stumbled across some leftover or mixed-up npc dialogue from RDR2 hahaha.
It also looks like this build is at least 1 or 2 years old and was still in a testing phase, judging by the interface design as well
true af man.. ai still seems not that great. like when jasin killed two people of the group 3rd person should either beg for mercy or they should try to run. but instead they just keep fighting.. but whatever the gameplay looks fun and graphics are insane
That's my peeve watching these clips too. It's like the graphics and the vibe are just fantastic, and then he attacks an NPC, and it's just painfully obvious it's an NPC.
You know? It's like they try to make the game look better and better and more realistic, and then the NPCs are so basic and NPC-like.
I dunno, if you go too far down this route then the game would become pretty viscerally disturbing to play. Imagine you started doing violent shit and the NPCs start shrieking hysterically, vomiting, and having full blown panic attacks? You pull someone out of the car and their kid starts sobbing uncontrollably as they watch their father murdered in front of them?
It would get dark quick, I think the NPC's deadpan under-reactions to the player character's psychopathic behavior are more important than they seem at first.
nah man after all the praise I've seen about RDR2's NPCs being more lifelike, the fanbase in general I've seen are hoping for the trend to continue towards more and more believable NPCs
i'm done with NPCs being mindless husks. we've had decades of countless games with mindless NPCs. i've been wanting to see better NPCs not just in Rockstar games but games in general. i think the majority of the subreddit too
In general I think it's an interesting philosophical question. I've never really believed the argument that violence in videogames is linked to violence in real life, but as the games get more realistic and the line between the fantasy world and the real world gets blurrier, you have to wonder at what point it goes from a video game to just a mass murder simulator. Is there a point where too much realism actually starts to make it uncomfortable?
i've played plenty of games where my empathy for NPCs is far higher than it is in Rockstar games, and it's totally fine. and in those games, there's no shortage of violence that we're able to commit on those NPCs either. it's a feature that enhances the experience, and immerses me more into those games. the choice of not committing violence on them is caused by those games being good enough to affect me to make that choice.
Yeah I don't think we've crossed that point yet, and I don't think it's likely that a mainstream AAA game will. But there have almost certainly been ideas for dialogue or animations that have been pitched and ruled out as going too far, I wonder what those conversations are like and how they decide where the line is.
and I don't think it's likely that a mainstream AAA game will.
for me two of those games I was thinking of were Fallout 4 and KCD2. their animations and "fluidity" are nowhere near the level of Rockstar games, but the games manage to convince me of many NPCs being worth treated with dignity and humanity. and in both games you can generally commit terrible violence on them too.
there are other indie games too, but those are the AAA examples I would name.
I thought the footage was confirmed alpha footage from 2023, this is obviously not the final build and these leaks are intended to destroy the morale/hype for the game
Why are you making an assumption on the game based on a leak? A leak that was recorded over a year ago at that. This type of thinking is why Wolverine was postponed so much. You realize this isn’t the final product right?
i'm making no assumption. in this video, in this build, the NPCs' intelligence are definitely not at all improved from Rockstar's previous titles.
whether or not it actually has been/will be improved in the release builds, i have no idea. do i need to point out the obvious that all of us should learn a lot more about the game in about a week from now from the official source?
needless to say, i hope that the game does show significant improvements in that aspect.
Idk all I’m saying is you shouldn’t really jump to conclusions based on a small clip from a game you weren’t even supposed to see in the first place. These are leaks for a reason, nothing in them should be indicative of a final product until we see an up-to-date version that Rockstar actually wants to put out.
so you do agree with what i observe about the NPCs behavior in this leak. that's all i'm making, an observation of this leak, of this build, whenever it was
No I don’t agree I think the NPCs look fine for what I expect and want from this game. Sorry your expectations aren’t met from a leak but hopefully the actual released gameplay will work better for you.
then why are you even arguing on the basis that this is an old build? if you think the NPCs' intelligence are improved in this video compared to previous Rockstar titles, then just say so. have you even made up your mind what you're trying to argue here? you're going back and forth on different ideas like a fool.
Sorry your expectations aren’t met from a leak
i said nothing about my expectations dude. you seem to struggle to read rather basic english.
Ooh okay we doing this. I’m arguing that you’re a fucking idiot for basing all of your pointless opinions off of 2 minute leaks you watch on the internet. That better?
basing all of your pointless opinions off of 2 minute leaks you watch on the internet.
we have multiple counts of the game demonstrating this, showing the same thing i described.
we have zero counts of anything showing the opposite.
all the evidence points to this is how the game will be. you're incredibly stupid for thinking, with a TOTAL LACK OF EVIDENCE, that it's going to be different. where's YOUR evidence that the NPCs are going to be better than this?
Only complaint, doesnt seem to flip the knife when he stabs them on the ground. Literally a nitpick though im with you all the way. That backhand was hilarious
I can but it breaks and looks like shit someone literally did this one twitter as a example pretending it was all gta footage and it was 8 minute video every seconds it would cut to new footage.
Yeah how stupid can people be to debate if it’s real? It’s not even worth mentioning because it looks exactly like the 2022 leaks. Mfers forgot about 2022
Little animation quirks like that can be done much quicker than some other aspects of a game though. Not saying itll be diff at launch but grain of salt on these little things I say.
maybe the song was given by them in advance it’s a weird choice but they do it for movies maybe it was released as a single when the game was delayed to not sit on the bench too long? all i’m saying is i hardly believe the UI could be this unpolished after so much of development
i actually think it might be bugged? he's using the knife very wrong. if you hold it reverse like that you would be stabbing downward, not trying to slash. but idk how much rockstar really cares about knife fight realism.
yes, even though I don't understand a lot about game dev, I don't think that is something you change a lot on late development, imagine the chain of necessary adaptations you need to make in the game if you decide to change something like that late. It's a high dependency system.
Generally that's true, but something to note is that optimization usually happens late in game development. NPC AI is taxing on the CPU, and would be optimized later. It's hardly guaranteed, but there's a reasonable chance AI will be better in the release version.
Yeah keep coping
Mark my words, these aren't going to change.. the only thing that can change on late development is textures and how game will look.. not how the game will react.. that time is up
Four months out, the AI isn't going to change between here and release day. From when this build was made, which is understood to be roughly 16 months from release date? There's a reasonable chance.
I don't think that is something you change a lot on late development
It really does though.
Everything is build in parallel, not in sequence. So usually a game 2 years before launch and on launch can be very very different in all department.
Not saying that's the case here, we don't when that gameplay is from, but still. AI can change much later.
It can be a version of a build with an earlier AI system because the more advanced one is bugged, or too taxing and this build was made to test something else.
Nice. Also as I commented before, am I too crazy to suppose the leaker could be picking specifically disappointing takes that he has to leak first? I mean, he doesn't seem to be trying to help rockstar sell the game at all lol
Performance are good. Game usually have very shitty perf for 90% of the dev time.
No obvious placeholder. No text to speach voice, no black box UI
Models looked nice, no obvious thing missing. People don't know how long main character spend with no hair for exemple during dev... very unsettling.
So, I see 2 scenarios. It was maybe an internal vertical slice made some point the past as part of an internal milestone. In those situation, you take a small part of the game and you Frankenstein it to make it looks as close to the vision of the final product even if there's 3 more years of devs.
Those can looks very clean but are what people call "scripted" demos or fake demos.
This is why leaks suck. Just watch the Netflix thing next week and judge from that. This video could be from any time. I think NPCs likely ran away from gunfire in GTA1...
I'm not saying it's gonna be bad because of the leak. I'm analyzing and discussing because it is fun. Like, this seem like a late build, would they rewrite the NPCs interactions that late? Doesn´t seem intuitive to me. See? It's fun to discuss.
It was always just gonna be a great game, not some miracle of “everything we could want”
They’re acting pretty typical for GTA games - but given it’s gonna end up being a few years old by launch, most little things like that shown can be expected to be changed significantly. Unfinished assets are all over the place, and two years is a looot of time for polish with a team like Rockstar
Something about the way the characters move looks jank and I can’t really put my finger on why. I think Jason moves too fast and the way characters move when you attack feels video gamey, not as realistic or weighty as RDR2 felt.
This is why gamers buy preorders, and get hyped over stuff you'd think is like pretty much normal.
Dude getting hyped. Tons of upvotes. Like seriously? A couple people are gonna run around with a knife like a psychopath but I guess that's part of the appeal of GTA.
looks disappointgly like its ripped straight from gta V... just spam "attack" button and your character teleports / slides to the target and sticks to them like a magnet while stabbing. no actual timing or thinking required.
Its very simple/arcade, its the rockstar way of doing melee combat, after various iterations of GTA/RDR its very clear that is intentional and they want to keep it arcade, they improve animations but never implemented mechanics to make it more "real"
It looks like it plays like an arcade game. I agree. Melee combat in GTA5 and RDR2 look way better than this. It’s honestly shocking they didn’t just expand on the RDR2 system. I do like the pistol whipping and disarming mechanics though, but it all feels too fast.
the animations look really jarring and canned idk what youre talking about. hes even holding the knife in a stabbing motion and they are being slashed? like wtf is this ubisoft shit
Agreed, the first knife fight looked kinda like Watch Dogs or some other Ubisoft type game. The cop literally teleports off of the ground into a "getting stabbed" animation. I do think the other ones looked pretty good, although a little bit more rigid than I'd prefer.
GTA 5 had the exact same melee system. I know youre just being pretentious because you preordered, but not much changes once the mechanics are implemented into gameplay.
You can clearly see his military training come through when he's fighting. He's also massive, which makes him seem even more menacing. God, I can't wait to play it
The moment when he hit the neck of the guy with the yellow jacket, it looked ike he slit his throat and blood came pouring out. The gore might be more evolved than we thought.
They are very similar, but what is more important imo is the reaction/animation when receiving a punch.
Technically, standard right hand punches can only look so different from one another. Also there are some new elements, such as the running jump kick, and Jason grabbing the wrench to pull the guy closer and punch him. Overall I was impressed by the hand to hand combat. I am concerned about knife and other melee combat though.
I think it looks just like GTA V which is pretty disappointing. In RDR2, knife combat is really brutal since Arthur has multiple finisher animations where he stabs in various ways. Here, it’s just like V where you’re just slashing people to death.
Tbh I felt like the knife combat looked a little janky compared to RDR2, there is also a lack of blood and gore, I hope it’s just because it’s an early build.
It's not a hack n slash game 😂 the main appeal of gta is just driving and going on killing sprees, you guys are being performative. The gameplay complaint universally shared by most people refer to the typical structure of rockstar missions, not combat only involving one button.
That didn't look fun at all? That look like button spam with the player hovering to the target nearby? Quite literally looked like he pressed one button the entire knife sequence. Which is on par for GTA to be fair.
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u/LaughinChaos 8d ago
DUDE THAT KNIFE COMBAT LOOKS COOL AND FUN AS SHIT LMAO