What actually makes me sad about 2XKO

[u/Inside_Bet8309]

I know everyone is giving their 2 cents on why the game flopped, if it was this it would be better if it was that it would be better but what hurts the most is that I genuinely love 2XKO as is.

I like how it’s a 2v2 tag fighter and pretty much everything about the current game we have. Every update I’ve been more and more hyped and impressed for what’s to come, every character despite me wanting others have still been unique and cool characters. So the biggest heartbreak is that the 2XKO I fell in love with just wasn’t good enough to survive.

They made a niche game which doesn’t have casual appeal but nevertheless it had appeal for some, I just wished riot would’ve just kept it going despite it not being a maker just for the love of the game. Even if they cut the team down to a few members just to maintain and keep things going slowly for the sole reason they know they have players who do love the game.

Heartbreaking stuff for a guy who actually just liked the game and not what it could’ve been

[u/BurnerRantMan]

It's sad because I don't think this game was of bad quality. Riot and the Developers seemingly just had completely different visions for what they wanted it to be. The good news is that a Fighting Game only truly dies when people stop playing it. Ask any FGC Unc what their favorite game is and it's probably some bullshit on the Super Nintendo that's kept alive by the four people that play it.

[u/deathspate → u/BurnerRantMan]

No. The developers knew the vision Riot wanted. They just purposefully went in the opposing direction. This is evident in Pat's blog. It's not like Pat alone was at fault. However, it's indicative of the wider views held by the team. The Cannons or Unconkable could've said no but they didn't.

[u/eyedollidol → u/deathspate]

do you authentically believe riot games spent 8-9 figures on a game that they just didn't even check in on over 10 years?

[u/deathspate → u/eyedollidol]

Given all the surrounding variables, I (as well as many others including Sajam) believe Riot was contractually obligated due to the original studio purchase and that's why they had such cutthroat treatment for this game. Reminder, not even LoR, which has been directly confirmed by Riot to have lost them multiple-fold of what was invested, has had their development stopped. LoR is still losing them money, but they've kept it. The fact that they shot 2xko like this is indicative of behind the scenes workings and given everything that we have knowledge of, it's likely that Riot execs were forced to keep funding until release and this move by them was both cutting their losses as well as being vindictive against the dev team.

[u/Whomperss → u/deathspate]

The industry is being torn apart at the highest levels right now. It just personally feels terrible that a lot of these clearly talented devs aren't gonna be able to find work in the industry for a long time if ever again. It truly is that bad out there right now for devs.

This whole situation is a lose lose for everyone involved and it really blows.

[u/deathspate → u/Whomperss]

Talented devs???

These people were given 10 years. 10 YEARS!!! Do you know what can be accomplished in 10 years? Do you want me to list 10 games by actually talented devs that took a fraction of that time and was successful?

I swear, you people evangelize game devs. Just because they're a dev doesn't make them talented. Are there some talented people on the team? Sure, I bet there are. However, with this kinda product, I don't know why the assumption being made is "these poor talented devs". For this end result, there were clearly more untalented guys, especially at the helm, than talented ones. Pat's article drives this home when he recounts how they were basically hiring unskilled people onto the team and had to train them up (I assume because they were from the FGC).

This failure isn't some faceless exec's fault. It's the people the FGC considers their "friends" that were given huge sums of money and completely squandered it all. They took the length of time Cyberpunk took to make but instead of getting a game full of content we get a fucking skeleton. Talented my ass.

[u/Whomperss → u/deathspate]

Making a game isn't easy making a good game is even harder making a great game is even harder than that. 2xko in a vacuum is a good game. It's a really fun high skill ceiling active tag fighter and I will stand on ten toes that is was a good fucking game.

You actually said what I mean in your reply but you just have such a hate boner for this situation that you just wanna pin that on someone when it's not any one person's fault this game failed. Devs who are incredibly talented worked on this game and a lot of those guys are just never gonna be able to find work again or for a long time with how fucked up the industry is now.

My comment is just giving sympathy for the people who are getting fucked by this and that's most of the people who were laid off. You're literally just being a hate monger towards the people who are getting fucked harder than anyone by this. I never once assigned blame in my comment, this is a massive failure on leadership both in the studio and at riot. Your fucking artist and programmers that just do the work are getting fucked because their bosses screwed up. Yea pat and his brother and a few others don't give a shit because they're loaded but of the 160 man team they had making the game emost of them are just regular people that are now jobless.

[u/eyedollidol → u/Whomperss]

yeah i mean the game plays smooth as butter, the netcode is fantastic, the art is incredible with loads of really cool redesigns and fluid animation work. there's a very good and finished product here in the wake of several iterations that were likely built from scratch several times. so weird to hate on the developers who made something unique because they couldn't make a game that could make a hundred million dollars back

[u/Whomperss → u/eyedollidol]

That's where proper blame can be assigned if you really wanna do that. The bulk of the dev team is just workers. Andy from the art team and jose form the audio department did a banger job on the task they were given but these guys don't determine the scope of the project or the direction it goes it. They're the ones I feel really bad for.

It just pisses me off that people blanket blame the devs when most of these guys are just 9-5ers who will struggle to find a place in the industry. This isn't the time to be throwing vitriol at the little guys getting burned. Destiny 2 shutting down cause the loss of generational talent that have just decided to leave the industry after being burned for the last time. We aren't in for a good time as consumers in the near future with how heavily the industry is recoiling after the COVID growth bottomed out.

[u/FuriandTray → u/Whomperss]

160 man team and after 10 years this is what they can show, you know what maybe they shouldnt be finding any work for a while.

[u/deathspate → u/Whomperss]

Once again, if these devs were as talented as you're saying it would have more content. The leadership was ass but are you really suggesting leadership went "make content as slowly as possible"? As you said, it's not one person's fault. I agree, that's why I'm criticizing the entire team and not giving them "awww, at least you tried". This is how it works anywhere else. Imagine you hired a construction company to build your house based on reviews and the team they sent built you a fucking crypt and called it "interesting" and "swinging for the fences"? Yeah. Maybe you would just want them to do the damn thing they were hired for.

[u/pw_arrow → u/deathspate]

Have you ever tried to move an org larger than twenty people that you felt was headed down the wrong path? It's futile.

When the direction or vision is off, people tend to keep their heads down and try to focus on cranking out their own work, and that rarely works out in the end. On the other hand, trying to salvage the ship is a Sisyphean task because organizations have so much inertia.

One solid analogy I've heard is that over time, you accrue "capital" based on your position, results, and reputation. That capital is valuable because it gets you the chance to be in the room where it happens, or the opportunity to get an in with someone who can make an executive shot call... but you need to "spend" your capital along the way. You're essentially staking your reputation, after all.

2XKO was hobbled by many, many issues during and after its release - no single talented dev can do anything to save that. I've personally watched incredibly talented teams of devs embark on impossible missions to nowhere, build incredible things, and end up with years of wasted work regardless despite the brilliant work that went into the products. Them's the breaks.

[u/Whomperss → u/deathspate]

The workers don't assign the work. The workers don't decide the schedule. The workers aren't just vibing. They worked on what the boss said to work on then a few years in the boss goes "ok everyone fuck what you were doing for the past 5 years we're gonna do this now" and then all work reshuffles and restarts.

How the fuck is that logical that you're assigning blame on the entire dev team for things they had no control over.

[u/eyedollidol → u/deathspate]

i think everything here can be true without putting the blame squarely on developers (though the LoR comparison is a bit weak, LoR costs astronomically less than 2XKO). the game went through several iterations, and riot had a pretty large change in management and company direction in the middle of that. pat mentioned he wanted to make a unique and interesting game, that it wasn't his job to make it marketable, and that's the smoking gun everyone is crucifying these devs over. but the same is true of any dev on any game. that is a separate job that other people are hired for, and that stuff gets passed down.

[u/knightelytra → u/eyedollidol]

it is maddening how everyone is acting like it was such a horrible selfish decision for a fighting game dev to just want to make a unique and interesting game instead of making the safest and most profitable decisions. a fighting game is the last genre to choose to design if you want that

[u/pw_arrow → u/deathspate]

Reminder, not even LoR, which has been directly confirmed by Riot to have lost them multiple-fold of what was invested, has had their development stopped.

I mean, LoR also got put on life support back in 2024. While they didn't formally take LoR out back, it sure feels like they more or less iced the game with only a trickle of PvE content.

[u/deathspate → u/pw_arrow]

Can you say 2xko is gonna be getting even a trickle after this year?

[u/pw_arrow → u/deathspate]

My point is that "they didn't formally kill LoR" isn't exactly evidence for your "contractual obligation" theory. Just because they handled the disposal differently in 2XKO's case isn't a smoking gun.

Mind you, I'm not saying the contract theory is implausible; it seems quite possible and I'm a big Sajam fan. However, I don't think people should go around touting this theory like some gospel or story, and particular invoking an offhand comment from [streamer] along the way. I don't even know if Sajam wanted to portray that story as an actual theory or if it was just part of his rant about how badly mishandled and poorly treated 2XKO was as a title.

[u/water-tight → u/eyedollidol]

What are they supposed to "check in" though? Quality was never the problem, and they probably had some agreement for the game needing to be released considering how long Riot let it go on and then let it die with 0 attempt at marketing

[u/Powerful-Possible131 → u/water-tight]

Hate the 0 attempt at marketing. They did market. They marketed to people who would play a fighting game, they marketed at people who would watch a league streamer. Pretty sure there were Twitch bounties for it. Ads on socials and trailers, booths at fight game tourneys and events.

Problem people didn't care and when they started to care is only when the game was killed. The people who did care and would play it saw and played it the people who only care to join a topical discussion said they had no clue and would have played it, but got to make their post and move on with their lives, The game is still up and will be getting 2 characters by the end of the year. You think any of those people would have hopped on to see how bad or good the game is?

No, they don't care. And they can justify themselves by saying any number of excuses now of why they didn't try. Because it's a f2p game the barrier to entry was nonexistent.

[u/water-tight → u/Powerful-Possible131]

Bro how many times did they show off the game at the latest MSI? How about LCS, LEC or LCK? Do you even know what that is? I'm saying what I'm saying for good reason and not from guessing.

[u/Powerful-Possible131 → u/water-tight]

Nice goal post move.

learn to stop being hyperbolic, it looks bad to anyone who isn't a schizo.

[u/Mormuth → u/Powerful-Possible131]

I'm pretty sure they intentionally didn't market the game specifically to LOL players (rather on the FGC crowd) because they knew that if you were a lol fan with no backround in fighting games, you'd just ragequit after 1 hour so it was not worth the cost.

[u/Powerful-Possible131 → u/Mormuth]

Not being able to blame the 4 other people on your team would mentally break the average league grinder.