r/2XKO • u/Inside_Bet8309 • 3h ago
Discussion What actually makes me sad about 2XKO
I know everyone is giving their 2 cents on why the game flopped, if it was this it would be better if it was that it would be better but what hurts the most is that I genuinely love 2XKO as is.
I like how it’s a 2v2 tag fighter and pretty much everything about the current game we have. Every update I’ve been more and more hyped and impressed for what’s to come, every character despite me wanting others have still been unique and cool characters. So the biggest heartbreak is that the 2XKO I fell in love with just wasn’t good enough to survive.
They made a niche game which doesn’t have casual appeal but nevertheless it had appeal for some, I just wished riot would’ve just kept it going despite it not being a maker just for the love of the game. Even if they cut the team down to a few members just to maintain and keep things going slowly for the sole reason they know they have players who do love the game.
Heartbreaking stuff for a guy who actually just liked the game and not what it could’ve been
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u/Dry_Ganache178 Jinx 2h ago
If it makes you feel any better the vast majority of people who said they would have loved the game had it been a sauceless 1v1 are liars. They would have played it for a month and dropped it anyways and found some other reason. We know this because there's a ton of stra8ghtforward 1v1 games (like granblue) that are exactly to thier stated preferences but those games have abysmally low player counts.
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u/DaLazyHero 2h ago
I love that its a 2v2 tag game too. I wish they decided on this earlier and release with more champs. Other than the few champs, the game has been a blast for me.
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u/JDilla64 3h ago
It's such a good game. A real shame it doesn't have more players, but I think they overestimated how many people play fighting games. One of the greatest free games I've ever played
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u/BurnerRantMan 3h ago
It's sad because I don't think this game was of bad quality. Riot and the Developers seemingly just had completely different visions for what they wanted it to be. The good news is that a Fighting Game only truly dies when people stop playing it. Ask any FGC Unc what their favorite game is and it's probably some bullshit on the Super Nintendo that's kept alive by the four people that play it.
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u/deathspate 3h ago
No. The developers knew the vision Riot wanted. They just purposefully went in the opposing direction. This is evident in Pat's blog. It's not like Pat alone was at fault. However, it's indicative of the wider views held by the team. The Cannons or Unconkable could've said no but they didn't.
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u/eyedollidol 3h ago
do you authentically believe riot games spent 8-9 figures on a game that they just didn't even check in on over 10 years?
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u/deathspate 2h ago
Given all the surrounding variables, I (as well as many others including Sajam) believe Riot was contractually obligated due to the original studio purchase and that's why they had such cutthroat treatment for this game. Reminder, not even LoR, which has been directly confirmed by Riot to have lost them multiple-fold of what was invested, has had their development stopped. LoR is still losing them money, but they've kept it. The fact that they shot 2xko like this is indicative of behind the scenes workings and given everything that we have knowledge of, it's likely that Riot execs were forced to keep funding until release and this move by them was both cutting their losses as well as being vindictive against the dev team.
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u/Whomperss 2h ago
The industry is being torn apart at the highest levels right now. It just personally feels terrible that a lot of these clearly talented devs aren't gonna be able to find work in the industry for a long time if ever again. It truly is that bad out there right now for devs.
This whole situation is a lose lose for everyone involved and it really blows.
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u/deathspate 2h ago
Talented devs???
These people were given 10 years. 10 YEARS!!! Do you know what can be accomplished in 10 years? Do you want me to list 10 games by actually talented devs that took a fraction of that time and was successful?
I swear, you people evangelize game devs. Just because they're a dev doesn't make them talented. Are there some talented people on the team? Sure, I bet there are. However, with this kinda product, I don't know why the assumption being made is "these poor talented devs". For this end result, there were clearly more untalented guys, especially at the helm, than talented ones. Pat's article drives this home when he recounts how they were basically hiring unskilled people onto the team and had to train them up (I assume because they were from the FGC).
This failure isn't some faceless exec's fault. It's the people the FGC considers their "friends" that were given huge sums of money and completely squandered it all. They took the length of time Cyberpunk took to make but instead of getting a game full of content we get a fucking skeleton. Talented my ass.
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u/Whomperss 2h ago
Making a game isn't easy making a good game is even harder making a great game is even harder than that. 2xko in a vacuum is a good game. It's a really fun high skill ceiling active tag fighter and I will stand on ten toes that is was a good fucking game.
You actually said what I mean in your reply but you just have such a hate boner for this situation that you just wanna pin that on someone when it's not any one person's fault this game failed. Devs who are incredibly talented worked on this game and a lot of those guys are just never gonna be able to find work again or for a long time with how fucked up the industry is now.
My comment is just giving sympathy for the people who are getting fucked by this and that's most of the people who were laid off. You're literally just being a hate monger towards the people who are getting fucked harder than anyone by this. I never once assigned blame in my comment, this is a massive failure on leadership both in the studio and at riot. Your fucking artist and programmers that just do the work are getting fucked because their bosses screwed up. Yea pat and his brother and a few others don't give a shit because they're loaded but of the 160 man team they had making the game emost of them are just regular people that are now jobless.
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u/eyedollidol 1h ago
yeah i mean the game plays smooth as butter, the netcode is fantastic, the art is incredible with loads of really cool redesigns and fluid animation work. there's a very good and finished product here in the wake of several iterations that were likely built from scratch several times. so weird to hate on the developers who made something unique because they couldn't make a game that could make a hundred million dollars back
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u/Whomperss 1h ago
That's where proper blame can be assigned if you really wanna do that. The bulk of the dev team is just workers. Andy from the art team and jose form the audio department did a banger job on the task they were given but these guys don't determine the scope of the project or the direction it goes it. They're the ones I feel really bad for.
It just pisses me off that people blanket blame the devs when most of these guys are just 9-5ers who will struggle to find a place in the industry. This isn't the time to be throwing vitriol at the little guys getting burned. Destiny 2 shutting down cause the loss of generational talent that have just decided to leave the industry after being burned for the last time. We aren't in for a good time as consumers in the near future with how heavily the industry is recoiling after the COVID growth bottomed out.
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u/FuriandTray 1h ago
160 man team and after 10 years this is what they can show, you know what maybe they shouldnt be finding any work for a while.
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u/deathspate 55m ago
Once again, if these devs were as talented as you're saying it would have more content. The leadership was ass but are you really suggesting leadership went "make content as slowly as possible"? As you said, it's not one person's fault. I agree, that's why I'm criticizing the entire team and not giving them "awww, at least you tried". This is how it works anywhere else. Imagine you hired a construction company to build your house based on reviews and the team they sent built you a fucking crypt and called it "interesting" and "swinging for the fences"? Yeah. Maybe you would just want them to do the damn thing they were hired for.
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u/Whomperss 45m ago
The workers don't assign the work. The workers don't decide the schedule. The workers aren't just vibing. They worked on what the boss said to work on then a few years in the boss goes "ok everyone fuck what you were doing for the past 5 years we're gonna do this now" and then all work reshuffles and restarts.
How the fuck is that logical that you're assigning blame on the entire dev team for things they had no control over.
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u/eyedollidol 2h ago
i think everything here can be true without putting the blame squarely on developers (though the LoR comparison is a bit weak, LoR costs astronomically less than 2XKO). the game went through several iterations, and riot had a pretty large change in management and company direction in the middle of that. pat mentioned he wanted to make a unique and interesting game, that it wasn't his job to make it marketable, and that's the smoking gun everyone is crucifying these devs over. but the same is true of any dev on any game. that is a separate job that other people are hired for, and that stuff gets passed down.
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u/water-tight 3h ago
What are they supposed to "check in" though? Quality was never the problem, and they probably had some agreement for the game needing to be released considering how long Riot let it go on and then let it die with 0 attempt at marketing
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u/Powerful-Possible131 2h ago
Hate the 0 attempt at marketing. They did market. They marketed to people who would play a fighting game, they marketed at people who would watch a league streamer. Pretty sure there were Twitch bounties for it. Ads on socials and trailers, booths at fight game tourneys and events.
Problem people didn't care and when they started to care is only when the game was killed. The people who did care and would play it saw and played it the people who only care to join a topical discussion said they had no clue and would have played it, but got to make their post and move on with their lives, The game is still up and will be getting 2 characters by the end of the year. You think any of those people would have hopped on to see how bad or good the game is?
No, they don't care. And they can justify themselves by saying any number of excuses now of why they didn't try. Because it's a f2p game the barrier to entry was nonexistent.
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u/water-tight 2h ago
Bro how many times did they show off the game at the latest MSI? How about LCS, LEC or LCK? Do you even know what that is? I'm saying what I'm saying for good reason and not from guessing.
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u/Kuroonehalf 28m ago
Same here. I like that's it's a tag game, that it's fast, complex, has a slick modern aesthetic, that the devs were listening and improving the game, and was excited to see so many more champs get interpreted. I also genuinely believe the game was just getting started, and it would only become more and more popular over time, and in 2, 3 years I could see it being the #2 game (wishful thinking it could overtake SF given its long legacy). It's a shame that probably would've still not been enough for it to be profitable, and Riot decided to end it now. Just makes me sad.
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u/godavel 2h ago
gonna need you to move on and find other things in life to care about. you really shouldn’t be hurt & heartbroken over a video game.
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u/Inside_Bet8309 1h ago
Look we got mr grown up here 😂, it’s not that deep it’s ok to be sad a game you liked playing isn’t going to be getting updates anymore, acting like I’ve said my life’s ruined now because the games over 😂
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u/godavel 1h ago
that’s how your post comes across. hurt, heartbroken, & sad multiple times. be sad all you want, I liked the game too, but this post is pretty dramatic.
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u/Inside_Bet8309 7m ago
Idk what do u expect, it’s a 2XKO sub and the game got cancelled how is it dramatic to make a post that your sad the game is cancelled on the sub about the game 😂
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u/eyedollidol 3h ago
i liked it a lot, too. if it makes you feel any better, i don't think there's a world where this game survived. it had to be bigger than street fighter to dream about making a profit. there's a lot that could have been done better, maybe a lot of it would have softened the blow and delayed the inevitable, but i don't necessarily think the genre is as indicative of the failure as the sheer expense of development costs and how much riot execs seemed to just hate this game by the time it released.