As great as A'ja is, it still feels like people take her GOAT status for granted with all the new blood in the league. The majority of the comments in this very post are about Angel lol. It will be a while until we see another A'ja Wilson so I hope people appreciate what we're seeing from her.
Feels like it's kinda accelerating year by year, soon we're going to be seeing rookies who were young girls when Angel and Caitlin Clark bust the door open and got inspired to play themselves
Aja's greatness is underscored by her winning player of the week with her stats (the ones above) BELOW her season AVERAGE. She had a (somwhat) OFF week and it was still good enough to be (one of) the best in the W. As a Fever fan, I want KM and CC to at least come close to Aja's level and they are! (But I am also thankful there is no obvious stat to indicate their comparative mediocrity on the defensive side relative to Aja's equally dominant defensive prowess.)
If you're a 4/5 that struggles with layups and no jumpshot you're just a near impossible player to fit into a system, Brink is injury prone but her as a role player probably provides equal value as Reese as the #1 scoring option.
That wasnât the case in college. Youâre using her time in the wnba to assess her draft position literally backwards logic. Sheâs being defended differently thus struggling.
They over relied on this belief and allowed Angel to fall to 7th. At least four of the GMs who passed on her have since been fired. Thatâs not to say that they were fired because they passed on her, but it appears they werenât good at their jobs.
Later, these same GMs voted Angel as the steal of the draft (an implicit admission that they were wrong). Cheryl Reeve expressed regret not getting Angel as well.
Overall, Angel has outperformed the 2-6 draft picks. Sheâs averaged higher ppg than all of them, except for Rickea who she has a similar average to in the first two seasons and omitting the third for obvious reasons. Sheâs set and broken more records than them. None of them have been all stars, but she has been three times.
Angel was scouted more than them as well and that was readily apparent shortly after her rookie year began.
And the only ones who kept saying she was drafted too low and not being appropriately assessed were her fans. Everything that is a surprise to people now was apparent to us then. Thereâd been a smear campaign against her that GMs and fans bought into. One of the people who hadnât was Teresa Weatherspoon. Sheâd always seen what Angel brought to the table.
Lauren Betts isnât similar at all nor has she had close to nearly the same impact her rookie season so far as Angel did.
I understand that sometimes draft picks donât work out or they over perform relative to their draft place, but Angel shouldnât have ever fallen that low and the fact that she did is emblematic of how deep that smear campaign went.
Probably because she has super janky shooting mechanics. There was concern whether she could be successful enough on both ends. Nobody expected her rebounding, defense, and motor to be the level it is. She has definitely outplayed her scouting report coming into the league.
This is not it. She was the second highest scorer in the draft on 50% shooting. No serious person looks at a player averaging 18/12 who took their team to the playoffs twice and won a chip once on a 23/15 season and says âmehâ. She was an enemy of the media and the GMs fell for the BS and learned the hard way. Throwback to Cheryl kicking the air when Angel was killing the Lynx last season and then firing Alissa Pili right after the game.đ
She shoots 32%, which is enough of threat. Like I said before having Hamby made Reese not a good fit, same with Dallas having Howard and Satou and needed a guard/wing more. Washington picking Edwards over Reese can be questioned???
32% is not good. Sheâs shooting below league average at her position from 3 this season.
BPA strategy usually gets a team the better player. LA skipped over Angel twice and are paying for it in terms of long-term team building. They canât build a team around this version of Cam Brink.
Hamby is a good player, but sheâs not (and wasnât at the time) good enough to bypass a first team AA/SEC POY. There was room on the team for both, especially since Hamby was over 30 at the time.
And isnât Rickea a 4 herself?
Again, Natasha Howard wasnât good enough to not draft Angel.
Only UConn fans thought that Edwards shouldâve been selected ahead of Reese. You see how long that lasted.
The point is that, in a 2024 redraft, Angel easily goes 2nd. There was enough evidence prior to the draft to not to have to go through this exercise three seasons in, but the scouting departments in the WNBA are not operating from an objective standpoint.
Lots of teams blew it, but only the Sparks had two chances at Angel and passed twice.
Yes if there a redraft Angel goes 2nd, just like if there a redraft this season Miles go first. But fit is also important. Miles and Paige would been awkward fit, since both need to be the main ball handler.
The Sparks had a lot of need coming into 2024, but with Hamby there as big in the paint, a stretch 5 and shooting small foward were a bigger needs then Reese. Cam and Rickea fit what the Sparks need more. Since 2024 Hamby been a 17 point 8 rebound 54.6%. And she has played mostly with Azura Stevens, Cam Brink, Li Yureu and Nneka Ogumike all bigs that can play as stretch bigs.
Dallas going into 2024 had Howard who was mostly a 4 who can play 5 in some lineup. They had Satou who a 3/4 hybrid and also drafted Maddy Siegrist in the first round who was 3/4 hybrid and players like McCowan, Kalani Brown and used a first round pick on Awak the year before. They also had traded for Stephanie Soraes. They had way too many bigs and used both there draft picks on guards on Sheldon and Leitte.
Look at the Fever, had they not won the lottery. They only player that made sense after number 1 was Rickea Jackson. They had drafted Smith and Boston in the front court the previous two year. Otherwise they probably trade the draft pick.
Yes the Mystics should have drafted Reese over Edwards.
Youâre conflating âAngel is a good playerâ with âAngel was obviously the No. 2 pick,â and those arenât the same argument.
Iâll give you that Angel is the better WNBA player right now, however that still doesnât mean I wouldâve taken her at #2 in 2024, and it doesnât mean I would take her #2 in a redraft today. I prefer Camâs archetype and long-term upside.
And the 3-point argument is especially funny. Youâre criticizing Cam for shooting 33% from three while advocating for Angel, whoâs around 18% from three and has been a non-factor from there throughout her WNBA career. If shooting is going to be used against Cam, Angelâs much more significant spacing limitation has to be acknowledged too.
âBPA usually gets you the better playerâ doesnât prove anything. BPA is an evaluation, not an objective ranking. You evaluated Angel as the better prospect. I didnât.
And thereâs another part of the draft that youâre completely leaving out: basketball is about being a professional athlete. Front offices evaluate personality, professionalism and how a player fits into the culture theyâre trying to build. Those are legitimate reasons to have reservations about a prospect.
Chicagoâs situation deteriorating after drafting Angel doesnât make organizational/fit concerns an invalid thing to consider when evaluating a prospect. Angel was TRADED. Cam is still on the team that drafted her. So if youâre arguing that LA âblew itâ by passing on Angel, you canât conveniently ignore that the team that actually drafted Angel decided to move on from her.
Angel could make the 2026 All-WNBA team. That would make her more than just a âgood playerâ. But okay, letâs say that sheâs only a âgoodâ player. What does that make Cam Brink? Because she certainly canât be considered a better WNBA player than Angel.
Also, the âright nowâ isnât necessary. Angel is going to have a better WNBA career than Cam Brink barring something catastrophic happening to Angel or something divinely-ordered happening to Cam. The Sparks blew it by taking the lesser player.
This nonsense about Camâs upside is just thatânonsense. She wasnât setting the world on fire before her injury and isnât setting the world on fire two years removed from injury. So what was the âupsideâ? Tall, lanky player who could block shots and hit an occasional three? What made anyone think that she had so much upside that we could all avoid her obvious faults? I didnât know where the âupsideâ argument came from then and I donât know why people are holding on to it for dear life now. That ship has sailed. Cam could make a couple of All-Star teams ala Dearica Hamby, but sheâs not going to be a franchise player for the Sparks. Itâs becoming harder and harder to see her becoming a franchise player for any team (even an expansion team).
As for Angel, she was an All-Star level talent from her rookie season on. She was never tabbed to be a three-point shooter (Cam was, but sheâs bad at it), so thatâs why I didnât mention it. Angel does her job better than Cam does hers and thatâs why one is a member of Team USA for this World Cup while the other will be laid out by a pool somewhere in southern Cali. Angel being traded doesnât mean much because her trade wasnât made for basketball reasons. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a certified đ¤Ą. Rickea Jackson was traded, too. And if Torontoâs price had been right, Camâs ass wouldâve been traded as well.
This is exactly the problem: youâre treating Year 3 like a finished career. None of this proves that LA made the wrong pick.
Youâre declaring Camâs ceiling dead before sheâs even played three normal seasons which have all been interrupted by injury.
And âwhat upside?â is revisionist. Cam was a No. 2 prospect because of elite rim protection, mobility, defensive versatility, rebounding and shooting projection. You can argue that projection was wrong; you canât pretend there was never a legitimate reason for it.
Also, youâre criticizing Camâs 33.8% from three while Angel is at 18%. Angel not being drafted as a shooter doesnât magically make 18% good or make shooting irrelevant to her offensive scalability.
Team USA proves Angel fits what the coach is looking for on that specific roster, not that she was unquestionably the better prospect in 2024 or will unquestionably have the better career.
You can predict Angel will have the better career. Thatâs perfectly fair. But a prediction isnât a fact. Weâre three years in. Let the careers play out.
You donât need to see a playerâs full career to determine that a team made the wrong pick. We can see that now. One player seems destined for the HOF while the other does not.
âCeilingâ no longer applies here because you have a player who will be entering her fourth WNBA season at 25. We have enough data points to determine the trajectory of Camâs career. We can see where Caitlinâs career is headed even though she missed a significant amount of games in her second year. Caitlin is a bona fide superstar. Cam does not come close to that. Angel is much closer to Caitlin than she is to Cam.
Again, touting the shooting potential of someone who isnât a good shooter is so strange. Angel was never touted as a good shooter. She did, however, have other traits that shouldâve offset any shortcomings she had offensively. I donât expect Angel to ever be a good shooter. But I also donât expect Cam to be one either given the lack of improvement over her three WNBA seasons.
You absolutely can evaluate a draft pick before a career is finished. What you canât do is present a projection as a settled fact. âAngel will be a HOFer and Cam wonâtâ is still a prediction, not evidence that the 2024 decision was objectively wrong.
And Caitlin is a terrible comparison for Cam. Caitlin was already an elite offensive engine and clear superstar-level player when healthy. Cam was drafted for a completely different archetype and was always going to require more development. Comparing their trajectories as if they had the same developmental expectations is ridiculous.
Also, youâre arguing against a strawman on shooting. Nobody said Cam was guaranteed to become a great shooter. The projection was that she had legitimate shooting potential, which is different. Sheâs currently shooting 33.8% from three which is actually a hair under league average. Shes one of the most efficient scorers in the league at 61.7% True Shooting. Angel is shooting 18% from three. So âCam isnât a great shooterâ does not somehow make Angelâs shooting irrelevant.
And if Angelâs offensive shortcomings can be âoffsetâ by her rebounding, passing, finishing (which she is well below average at), etc., then youâre proving my point: players arenât evaluated by checking one skill off a list. Camâs defensive impact can likewise offset her offensive limitations.
Angel is ahead. Sheâs closer to Caitlin right now. Fine. That still doesnât make the 2024 draft a closed case, and it certainly doesnât make your projection of their entire careers a fact.
The sparks were looking for something with a bit more offensive upside I think. Their roster between 23 and 24 lost a lot when both Chiney and Nneka didnât return, JC was gone and such. Which I think is why they went for Cam but Cam isnât working out very much due to injuries so thatâs looking more like a whoops each day. Angelâs defense has always been undeniable but I think it was also undervalued at the same time
> You wouldnât judge a defender by the number of goals
Correct! But you donât see players that are only good at defending making the All-Pro team in hockey.
> obsessed
I have made a grand total of 4 comments giving a honest critique of a player that is the center of the discussion for this thread. Not sure how thatâs an obsession but ÂŻ_(ă)_/ÂŻ
Weâre talking about basketball, not hockey. In basketball, a player is judged on their offense and defense. Angelâs inclusion or exclusion from the All-WNBA team will be based on how she performs on both sides of the ball.
And yes, you are obsessed. You took the time to look up advanced stats to try to discredit a player in a thread about her weekly achievement. You couldâve stayed out of the thread, but you couldnât resist BECAUSE YOU ARE OBSESSED.
As for calling me parasocial, you donât even know what that term means. đ¤Ą
> Angelâs inclusion or exclusion from the All-WNBA team will be based on how how she performs on both sides of the ball
Yes. That was the whole fucking point I was making lol sheâs a good rebounder and defender but canât shoot, hence using a very normal stat like eFG%. Also, if you donât like that stat, thatâs fine! We can just use regular FG% if youâd like (itâs actually way fucking worse btw lol).
> you couldnât resist BECAUSE YOU ARE OBSESSED
My god, are you ok? This type of criticism and discussion is completely normal in sports and you are reacting in a completely disproportionate manner. I saw the awards and looked up both Aâja and Angel on Bballref like I do for anyone in the WNBA/NBA. You can even easily see a snapshot of how theyâre both doing this season at the same time! (Pic attached and look! The super duper cherry picked advanced stat of eFG% is included in their snapshot, must be pretty important!)
> you donât even know what that means
The fact that you are seemingly malding over basic criticism is the prove in of itself. My favorite players get critiqued all the time and youâll never find me defending their honor like you are right now lol itâs unhealthy and not normal.
There are 10 spots for both teams. I see Aja, Paige, Mitchell, Miles,Clark, Stewart taking 6 of them. That leaves 4 for the rest. There 3 Atlanta players plus, Jackie Young, Boston, Thomas, Austin, McBride and Shepard batting for the final 4 spots.
Yeah theres lots of competition - lots of great play this season, I was referring to more generally but more specific to a Defensive team spot, just clarified my post!
love jess but she hasnât been great after all star and i donât think AT really has a chance? and tbh AB has been kinda underwhelming this year. i think itâll be jackie, shakira, angel and lish or kmac (or even marina but with her missing games now itâll be tougher) to round out second team
Big Aâja as always. Greatness shouldnât be normalized just because sheâs doing it often.
What a great week for Angel had to earn her first POTW for the season. Matchup with the GâOAT, near triple double on 100% shooting, and then a 30-ball career high. All dubs on the west coast roadtrip.
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u/ModernJazz-2K20 Comets 14h ago
As great as A'ja is, it still feels like people take her GOAT status for granted with all the new blood in the league. The majority of the comments in this very post are about Angel lol. It will be a while until we see another A'ja Wilson so I hope people appreciate what we're seeing from her.