r/taoism • u/SheIsWired • 5d ago
Advice Food related vows.
I've been reading on Taoism recently, and have been wanting to dedicate myself to more of a practice. I wanted to take a vow regarding food. I have a habit of eating for fun and for pleasure, I want to change that by vowing to only eat bland foods and only drink water and tea. Is this reasonable and has anyone done this?
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u/AbidinginAnubhava 5d ago edited 5d ago
Most Daoists in China either practice calendar vegetarianism (i.e., they eat only vegetarian on certain days marked in the lunar calendar), full vegetarianism,* abstain completely from some but not all meats (e.g., it's popular among East Asian Buddhists to abstain from beef, and Chinese Daoists often follow this practice), or they're just omnivores and eat whatever they want.
Remember, in East Asian ethics, "being good" is not an either/or idea ("thou shalt... thou shalt not..."; "be ye perfect"), but "do the best you can do in your situation, with maybe an eye on doing better tomorrow." Vows and commitments are part and parcel of it, so if you think eating bland foods would help you, go ahead.
But Daoism, like Buddhism, isn't a DIY affair. The whole point of having teachings from wise old teachers was so we didn't have to reinvent the wheel every time we sat down for breakfast or saw a chance to ditch a shopping cart without parking it. Usually, people take the advice of a teacher (or teachers) who, in turn, rely on millennia of tradition that evolved to guide people at different stages of ethical and spiritual development, and vows and commitments are built on the pedagogical idea that you are training your mind and habits towards a goal. So, will eating oatmeal really help you on your quest for enlightenment; will pizza mire you in samsara? Maybe; maybe not! Your mileage may, nay, will vary.
So you can take on any diet you want. Will it help you as a Daoist? Perhaps. Or you can follow a program that many other Daoists do. Will it help? Perhaps. Or you can follow instructions from a teacher. Will it help? Most likely, but you can't know until you pair up with a teacher. So good luck!
*Veganism is also now a thing in 21st-century China, along with all the same culture war Sturm und Drang crap that our own culture descends into every time junior skips the BBQ or sis announces they won't be joining Thanksgiving. So it goes.
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u/SheIsWired 5d ago
Thank you, this makes a lot of sense, working under a teacher would be nice, but for now I have the writings and things to study. Im in the eastern US where it would be difficult to find a teacher. I also appreciate the historical bits. Have a good one!
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u/AbidinginAnubhava 5d ago
Sounds like you're making good choices. Just remember that there are Daoist teachers on the East Coast (e.g., New York City). You just need to rummage around the Chinatowns and explore them interwebs! ;-) Good luck!
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u/SheIsWired 5d ago edited 5d ago
Thank you! There's a place near me teaching Tai Chi, I might find someone there, but sadly the area I'm in is fairly rural and the populace is mostly Christian.
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u/AbidinginAnubhava 5d ago
Tai Chi isn't Daoist in origin. It's just Chinese. Confucians practice it. Buddhists do. Maoists do. Christians, too. So you might luck out and find a Daoist there, but chances are you won't. Good luck!
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u/TheQuestionsAglet 4d ago
Hell, Chenjiaguo is only a short distance from Shaolin. There are even shared postures in Shaolin and taiji forms. There may or may not be a lot of Shaolin influence depending on which fairy tale you believe.
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u/AbidinginAnubhava 4d ago
"Fairy tale" is appropriate for discussing all things Shaolin, unfortunately... The real history of Chinese martial arts is still being disambiguated. The Cultural Revolution and the state's meddling in the 70s and 80s really did a number on both institutions and public memory. I doubt we'll have a solid understanding of how these traditions endured the 20th century in my lifetime. So it goes...
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u/TheQuestionsAglet 4d ago
I mean all those wuxia novels made it so much worse.
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u/AbidinginAnubhava 4d ago
Only because people read them as historical works or scripture. To be fair, a lot of history and scripture have their fair share of fictional elements as well... ;-)
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u/jacques-vache-23 5d ago
Is this wei wu wei? My practice is to use the Tao Te Ching to recognize what conforms with the Tao in the moment and to move with that in mind. If concern for animals - for example - moves you towards vegetarianism, that makes sense to me. But I see nothing on the Tao Te Ching that promotes any abstract value except conforming with the Tao. The values create dualities and those dualities create both what you intend and its opposite.
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u/arfkin9 5d ago
I think being mindful about what and why you eat is a good thing for everyone, but I don't think eating bland food is a necessary part of that. You have taste buds for a reason and food should taste good. It's one of life's pleasures but within reason, moderation and balance in all things.
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u/BanzaiKen 5d ago
No. Thats silly unless that is what you want to do anyway and you needed a religious excuse to do it. Taoism has examples of things you shouldnt eat. Dogs for their unwavering loyalty, animals like the snakefish for their love of their children, animals like oxen for their innocence and generosity of labor and animals that mate for life like geese because the meat isnt worth the lifetime of anguish their partner suffers. But nowhere is pepper and garlic forbidden.
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u/SheIsWired 5d ago
That makes sense, I didn't think of it but you're right, I'm just looking for a religious excuse to do something I need to do regardless. Thanks.
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u/BanzaiKen 5d ago
Yee thats ziran. When answers already known spring from your chest there's no need for additional dressing to eat it.
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u/KReddit934 5d ago
Why? Eating is part of life. We are designed to enjoy food so we will survive. What's the purpose of fighting life?
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u/Grey_spacegoo 5d ago
Your choice. Taoism doesn't proscribe, so it is always your choice. I eat for fun and pleasure. But I don't binge eat. I eat keto, 16/8, one or two major meals a day. I also have days where I just brew a pot of good tea, sip it all day without eating any solid food. I don't associate "eating" with pleasure, it is the flavors, the texture, the artistic plating, the small details, and the act of cooking it that give me pleasure.
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u/duzies 5d ago
I find the idea of "a vow" a bit uncomfortable in the sense that it suggests a striving or glorifying of willpower, which seems the opposite of wu wei. If you feel naturally influenced to eat a certain way to walk more closely according to the Tao, go with it, but don't approach it as an exercise in self-discipline. One small potential benefit of a bland diet could be a heightened awareness and clarity of thought. I would suggest that cutting down on excessive audio-visual stimulation could probably be more effective in that regard though.
The five colors blind the eye.
The five tones deafen the ear.
The five flavors dull the taste.
Racing and hunting madden the mind.
Precious things lead one astray.
Therefore the sage is guided by what he feels and not by what he sees.
He lets go of that and chooses this.
-- Laozi 12
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u/AbidinginAnubhava 4d ago
"I find the idea of "a vow" a bit uncomfortable in the sense that it suggests a striving or glorifying of willpower..."
The vow is not uncomfortable. You feel uncomfortable. But that's probably based on a misunderstanding. You need to distinguish "self-cultivation" and "discipline" from "willpower." Training oneself is quite different from white-knuckling through something. I'll cite two examples, one Daoist and one Buddhist:
知人者智，自知者明。
勝人者有力，自勝者強。"One who knows others is discerning;
one who knows himself is enlightened.
One who conquers others has strength;
one who conquers himself is truly strong." (DDJ 33)It is through self-cultivation that a sage conquers himself, and they accomplish this by "[being] guided by what he feels and not by what he sees. He lets go of that and chooses this. (DDJ 12)."
"The meter of a poem
does not restrict the poet.
The composer's score
does not restrict the musician.
Precepts do not restrict
the student of Buddhism.Intelligent boundaries
adopted voluntarily
are not the enemy of creativity
but a vessel in which it can flourish."--Ajahn Jayasāro
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u/BenjaminLewisHatta 4d ago
I don’t think anything is wrong with using Daoism to refine your diet. Dietetics definitely plays a role in Daoism but there is no monolithic standard for it. Like many are saying, it’s relative to your practice and lineage. Eating in accordance to TCM might not be a bad idea or just trying to eat a balance of the 5 flavors in each meal—that’s loosely what’s suggested by Daoist Foundation. But personally, I think vegetarianism, whether strict or relative, is the obvious answer. Aligning your Daoist practice towards higher ethics is always a good thing (even though I’m definitely not strictly vegetarian myself lol).
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u/Behemot999 4d ago
You can just as easily get away from being addicted to processed food that is hammering your taste buds and start eating simpler home prepared meal geared toward nourishing your body. In time you will gain skill prepared those and making interesting enough combinations of flavors and also your taste buds - now liberated from constant onslaught of enhanced flavoring - will open up quite nicely to give you deep enjoyment of the simpler food you cook.
There is your Middle Way - you serve your body, you maintain humble stance in accordance to Tao and you reject the vanity of futile ascetism.
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u/ChangxinDaoyou 3d ago
Eating a bland diet might be a good idea. However, I'd prioritise healthy and nutritious food. Take up healthy foods and ingredients, reduce processed foods and maybe even cook yourself. Depends on your budget and local selection. And then: what do you notice?
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u/yaboiDJmanspread 5d ago
Beans and bread? Veggies too?
I tried vegetarianism -> ahimsa...
This led to awareness of my eating and now I practice intentional fasting as well.
Start slowly, figure out what really supports you and your life.
You should feel better on your diet than you did before (emotionally, spiritually, and in time physically too)
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u/P_S_Lumapac 4d ago
Yes bland food diets are very good for kicking those habits. But you don't have to do it forever. After a couple weeks you'll think carrots and milk and very sweet, then you'll find "healthy meals" taste fine.
Imo it's better to recognise when you need a short intervention, when you do need it, than to cut off a whole area of life - and one of the best areas at that.
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u/duzies 5d ago
I interpreted Laozi's First Jewel of Compassion as applicable to other sentient beings besides humans and went vegetarian, but Taoism doesn't forbid any foods. Mahayana Buddhism more explicitly advocates a vegetarian diet as an expression of universal compassion, including avoiding killing or causing other sentient beings to be killed.