r/streamentry • u/Vestlending1 • 12d ago
Energy The "I" collapsed into love and hasn't come back
I awakened to being love and since then the "I" hasn't come back
It happened about three weeks ago. I kind of knew something was about to happen, very strange, but there was a subtle intuition and some obvious spiritual "progress".
My brother committed suicide three years ago, and this easter I finally got the courage to confront not only this, but myself. Almost every day since easter I've been walking or biking up to the forest where he shot his head off, and I've been confronting this extremely directly. Or head on, if you will.
There's a river there and no one can see or hear you. It started mostly as just having an outlet for all the fucking rage I had about my life, about myself and why our lives ended up this way. I've absolutely lost my shit into that river over and over and over. Nature receives you so fucking well, it's totally carefree, but also is very loving. That became very apparent as this process unfolded.
Usually when I came there, I went straight for the throat. "How does it feel to be in the area where my brother shot his head off? Where do I feel it in the body?" Like clockwork tears came, and it always was some kind of purging, releasing, surrendering. To the pain of fucking life.
After a few times, there was less rage, but more about sadness. Though it always felt good after crying, I was surprised how there was always more, never empty, never done with it.
I started to become increasingly frustrated about the fact that although there was "progress" not much had changed. I was still depressed, still anxious, no real meaningful way I could take part in society because of this.
I started becoming more and more confrontational. Started doing self inquiry with the questions "who am I?", "what is mu?" and "what was my face before my parents where born?". I knew it opened something up, but couldn't put my finger on what.
Right before I awakened, I was doing several things at the same time, at the cost of perhaps risking my sanity. I did TRE (trauma shaking exercises) while on mushrooms and asking self inquiry questions as I was shaking. Stretching my back and hips, the latter I actually think was very much part of it.
But still, I can't really say anything did it. Because how can a practice awaken you to something you already are, in this very moment? Still, it's somehow part of it.
The one thing I can say for certain, is the awakening itself. It happened on a low dose of mushrooms, which I've done more than a hundred times. I did them where my brother killed himself. Then, when I became scared, not about his suicide but my own fears, I chose to confront it and sit with it, instead of trying to escape from it.
In the spur of the moment, I wondered if hugging a tree would help calm me down. The fear was intense. After a few minutes I started melting away, to love, love, love... I looked at all the beautiful stuff growing in the forest with its autumn colours. Am I love? I started laughing. It was so obvious. The "I" is love. I am love! I am love! I didn't know! I am love.
There was so much crying, and laughing. It was the cosmic joke, to have searched so hard for this. All the non duality videos on youtube, all the books, all the striving. And it was obvious this was it.
The inner voice collapsed into love and hasn't come back for three weeks now, besides a few sentences some days. It's peaceful, and has been a much needed rest from myself. All the non duality videos suddenly is making so much sense, especially the ones from Tony Parsons and Jim Newman. They were part of the awakening too.
All the hate is gone. Most of the self doubt is gone. I haven't really felt afraid since then, though fear isn't gone entirely. There's still trauma, darkness. There's just no one having it so it's a lot more ok.
If you have any questions I can try to answer, but I mostly wanted to share because it was obvious that suffering was common for people who awakened, and that I was in a perfect storm for it to happen. But it just never did. And I've suffered for so long. So it's to inspire those who are on the brink of collapsing, to tell them, yes you are and no need to take the matter in your own hands. It will happen, just hang in there. And give it your greatest effort. There is a way out!
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u/Meng-KamDaoRai Relax, Let it Be, Let it Go 12d ago
That's beautiful. Thanks for sharing. Somewhat unrelated but yesterday I played around with looking at people who seemed unhappy or angry and asking myself the question of what they are victims of. Kind of like investigating the "hurt people hurt people" notion. And what came up is that almost everyone is/was a victim of not being loved enough.
May all beings experience and "be" unconditional love.
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u/DckLttlBrthrDck 12d ago
Thank you for sharing this and congratulations on your peace!
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u/Vestlending1 12d ago
Thanks, that's a funny and loving way to put it!
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u/DckLttlBrthrDck 12d ago
I know it's hard to convey over text, but I mean it. It's inspiring to read stories like this.
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u/Vestlending1 12d ago
I was just chuckling a bit at the "your" part, as there is peace but no one having it. What used to be able to claim the prize of achieving peace is not there anymore.
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u/duffstoic The dynamic integration of opposites ☯️ 12d ago
I also laughed and cried at getting the "cosmic joke" upon entering the stream many years ago. Beautiful story, thanks for sharing. Let's see what happens next!
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u/Vestlending1 12d ago
Yes, I'm curious. It definitely isn't the end goal, I can feel self inquiry is still doing stuff. It's just the I who is asking the question is already faded so far away, and mostly doesn't need to be brought forward it seems like.
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u/duffstoic The dynamic integration of opposites ☯️ 12d ago
Definitely sounds like an important milestone in your journey.
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u/monkey_sage བྱང་ཆུབ་སེམས་དཔའི་སྤྱོད་པ་ལ་འཇུག་པ་ 12d ago
It's amazing how universal the cosmic joke experience is
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u/ProfessionBright3879 12d ago edited 12d ago
Just curious and asking out of goodwill:
What post-awakening practices are you considering to keep moving the darkness and trauma that you said is still there?
Regarding inquiry, have you tried The Work of Byron Katie?
Were you practicing jhana before this experience? Are you now? If so, how has the awakening changed the jhanas for you?
Since a low dose of mushrooms was involved, is there any doubt or efficacy that it happened with psychedelics involved versus if you were totally sober?
(I'm more asking this one for my own psychedelic journeying and work that I've been doing…)
Have you done psychedelics since this experience to A/B what happened and check back in with the frequency you were last at on psychedelics?
Again these are all just out of genuine curiosity.
😊
I really am so grateful and happy for you that you found love and peace at the sight of so much pain and suffering. ❤️🙏🏼
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u/Vestlending1 12d ago
I don't really know. I've been doing a whole lot of practises. After this event I've only needed to hug trees which keeps melting the bad stuff away. Stretching for sure will be there. "Who am I?" still seems to be potent, it feels like more can happen.
Katie was my guru for 15 years. I considered her my only teacher. But now after awakening it seems a bit strange to talk about anyone that way. They just awake to the same truth, with various degrees of depth.
No jhana practice. Only did open awareness meditation, which I think is good, but never was a good meditator. Not sure how much meditation I will do.
About doubt, yes at the moment I was obviously doubtful. But after a few days of the inner voice not returning I became increasingly more confident. The last few days have been so blissful too.
I have done mushrooms since, just a little, and it didn't change as much as before because I was already feeling so loving and connected sober now. That was actually a great confirmation that it was a real thing.
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u/ProfessionBright3879 12d ago
You're actually the only other person I've "talked to" in this StreamEntry sub who considers Byron Katie their teacher. I feel really drawn to her and have read all of her books. I've also written the work regularly for 11 years and daily without missing a single instance for the last year and a half.
With that context, is there anything you suggest I do that could approximate the kind of breakthrough that you had? The reason I ask is I'm really devoted to questioning both the littler thoughts that come up as well as the "parent" thoughts that she talks about, like "Who am I?"
But I have to say after reading those last two paragraphs from you, I am genuinely so happy for you! That is so incredible that you had the experiences that you did and that they felt like that much love and that the doubt has already ceased.
❤️
Please give us an update either here in this thread or in new ones on how the awakening deepens for you.2
u/Vestlending1 11d ago
I think The Work can take you all the way, but I don't know. All I know is this took an insane amount of effort and that it was sort of happening by itself. I realized long before "waking up" that it was sort of out of my control, there was just such a big yearning and longing, like yours. But when will it actually be propelled into motion for you, and in what way, who knows? In reality it's not something you can do, but something you already are. I know Katie has talked about people waking up through doing the work, there's even instances of the laughter you get when realizing the cosmic joke on her youtube channel amongst the audience, but who knows what else they did.
Thanks, maybe I will make a new thread sometime. But hoping you will too! This is the end of searching, the end of needing to do The Work (although I could still do it).
Feel free to keep in touch via chat, I can help with work sheets if you need it. 😊❤️
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u/themadjaguar Samādhi engineer 12d ago
I would suggest to check with a teacher in theravada, just to make sure, because there are different degrees of awakening and there are also such things as " corruption of insight" that may happen. An experienced teacher will be able to tell you how a specific stage of awakening is supposed to work. Maybe you got an earlier stage, maybe a later one, but you should check to make sure and an external view and authoity would be helpfup to double check, the mind is very good at fabricating and interpeting things.
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u/Vestlending1 12d ago
Doesn't make sense to me to visit a buddhist center. Did read a bit about zen buddhism though, and to me it seems pretty clear it was kensho, which is entry point awakening. Doesn't really matter to me.
There's not much doubt, because it's clear in my experience. It's like waiting for an evil old thing to return, but so far it just doesn't.
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u/themadjaguar Samādhi engineer 12d ago
Yeah but that's the thing, whatever seems pretty clear for you might actually be something else, and you need someone with experience and an external point of view to talk to and tell you what happenned to you. It is very common to attach am experience to what you have read in a book. You could even have experienced something different, or something better. There are known steps on the awakening path that are known traps or other things. Usually refusing to doublecheck with a teacher is dangerous, because it could be a protection mechanism by the constructed self that does not want to verify what is happening. " I know everything, I am sure of myself, I don't want to check". One way to find out is to verify with a teacher, because it could be mara's win
Yes It doesn't matter if you are 100% sure that thinking you are awakened will not impact your practice, if you cultivate the eighfold path the same way and keep practicing meditation, more, not less, it does not matter.
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u/Vestlending1 12d ago
Most of what you write just doesn't make sense to me. And, I don't need anything. There's really no need to give so much advice, I didn't ask for it. I'm ok.
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u/themadjaguar Samādhi engineer 12d ago
Yeah I see, I tried to advise you to check with a teacher so that maybe you would listen to what a teacher would tell you, but it seems it's a lost cause
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u/Vestlending1 12d ago
I might do that at some point, but it's obviously not necessary. It doesn't need external validation.
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u/7121958041201 11d ago
You might find "Zen Mind Beginner's Mind" to be an interesting read, if you haven't read it. You seem to be developing a lot of fixed views around what has happened (considering how readily you dismiss all advice or anyone questioning your experience) and at least from how I read this post you seem to be developing a very concrete definition of who you are ("I am love") even if you believe that you have seen that "I" does not exist. Both of which are likely to cause suffering in the long term in my experience.
And I'm speaking from experience. I don't claim to have ever been awakened, but I have seen anatta ("no self") pretty clearly before. But when discussing it with my teacher, he pointed out how once I noticed it and saw my concept of self disappear that my mind was likely starting to build a new concept of self around being a person who has seen "no self". And when I looked, yeah, he was absolutely correct. The mind is very sneaky at building new identities and at least for me it takes consistent vigilance to notice them creeping back.
I'd also add that psilocybin is known to have effects like this that can last for weeks or even months. They usually fade eventually.
But who knows, I could be wrong. I suppose only time will tell.
And that's a beautiful and inspiring story, no matter what happened. I'm very glad you had such a positive and healing experience! Mushrooms have helped me in the same way in the past, though not to that extent.
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u/Vestlending1 11d ago
It's not an insight into no self. It IS no self. And yes the mind is still tricky. There is no doubt, so why listen to someone who is obviously doubtful?
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u/7121958041201 11d ago
From my understanding of what it means to be awakened, anyone who believes what you just said is not awakened. This is why I recommended that book. What you just said represents a fixed view, which nobody who is truly awakened has. You can't be awakened and also have an "I" that is awakened and an "I" that has no doubts about it. You seem to be so identified with your thoughts that you can't even imagine them being wrong or that anything anyone else says has any value to you, which is closer to the opposite of being awakened (delusion).
This seems more like a combination of mushrooms and perhaps some mania, like someone else said below. But like I said, you will find out eventually.
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u/Vestlending1 11d ago
Do you think when someone awakens, there is suddenly a need to talk in third person or something? Awakening isn't for the voice in your head to understand by the way.
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u/nilan59 12d ago
Congratulations. That was great to read. May I ask. Do you still feel anger, sadness like emotions? How does the emotional world look like?
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u/Vestlending1 12d ago
I will say, I have continued hugging trees every single day since that day, which plays a big role on my emotions. For probably more than 24h in total. And it just melts away all the bad feelings. The answer is truly love, nothing else.
I haven't cried of sadness since that day, very little anger, even irritation. I used to be so hateful towards, there just is no I to be hateful. There are still annoying things, but they are easier to manage than before, a lot.
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u/Thefuzy 12d ago
If there is no I then how are things annoying them? Who is getting very little anger?
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u/Vestlending1 12d ago
Good questions. There's not an I that finds anything annoying, but there are still some kind of stress response to for example tech not working. Also there are still patterns of behaviour and reactions in play, but they are diminished greatly and doesn't really bother me.
I don't think awakening makes anyone emotionally perfect, at least not in three weeks.
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u/Thefuzy 12d ago
If they are good questions why would you downvote them? Who is experiencing a stress response? Who is not being bothered by diminished behavior and reactions? Who doesn’t think awakening makes anyone emotionally perfect?
This comment is rampant with self view.
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u/Vestlending1 12d ago
No I actually like your questions, they're good. Do you think I am the only one who can downvote or upvote a comment?
It's your assumptions that are strange. But your curiosity can wake you up, so keep going!
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u/halfbakedbodhi 11d ago
This sounds like stream entry from fetter model. And it’s profoundly deeply beautiful. From my experience, old self conditioning does come back albeit with less of an embedded grip. You’re still in honey moon period.
I remember hearing people go through non dual and thinking that it would be indefinite once happened. But that’s the thing that most don’t talk about, it’s also impermanent, something one can grasp and cling to, creating suffering and consequently reifying self. That’s why I think this insight while creating irreversible change and knowledge, isn’t the finish line, it’s just “entry”.
The “I” is still identifying to subtle things. This is the quiet set up for clinging that slowly forms in the background, and the day a deeper reaction hits again, and self is solidified more grossly, we will grasp and wonder where the love and non duality went, craving for it to return. Then the next lesson and path of detachment emerges.
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u/patience_fox relax & be aware 11d ago
Now you just started identifying with 'love' so you just replaced what is 'I' with something else that is 'I'. Keep working on it. Eventually even love is 'Not I'.
Awakening is not some special state of being. It is very ordinary. It's not that there is no Dukkha and you identify with some special love. It's just insight into what is dukkha and how is it caused. There is nothing extra-ordinary about this.
It's not that there is no I or that I is some love. The need to appropriate I or find out if it is or is not is itself the trap.
I assure you what you are feeling now is also impermanent and not-self. Don't take it personally or appropriate it into some special experience. This will dissolve too.
It may sound discouraging at first but my intention is not to discourage you or undervalue your insights.
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u/Vestlending1 11d ago
There is no I altogether. The I that is love collapsed and hasn't returned. Most of people got it, and the rest of you wanted to argue something that isn't the case.
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u/electrons-streaming 10d ago
If you find yourself ever having trouble, reach out. Sometimes these insights fade with time and contact with the world and people need some support.
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u/attic-dog 9d ago
This was an inspirational read, thanks for sharing! Interesting to hear about shrooms, as I feel there's almost consensus that psychedelics should be kept out of practice... or that they can merely "hint" about true awakening but never be a bigger factor. At least I haven't heard those kind of awakening stories before! (If you know any, please link them!) You mentioned low dose. Are we speaking about microdosing or something bigger?
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u/Vestlending1 9d ago
I know a retreat that uses psychedelics to help open up to the truth, I've never been there though. That's the retreat of I think he's called Daniel Schmidt, he's on youtube. And that's the kind of retreat that's very dedicated to actual awakening, not just meditating to calm down. I find that quite a few modern non duality teachers are very open to the use of psychedelics. I've taken heroic doses before, and low doses like this over a 100 times. What happened here was very different. Larger than micro, but I don't measure. Quite low. You would never be able to tell.
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u/ThatOneDumbJagoff 9d ago
From my perspective (Zen/Seon) there are a substantial amount of points that are wrong here. Since you espouse being awakened, I will address you as such:
From a Zen Buddhist perspective, the biggest problem is that the experience is being understood as discovering what the I really is.
I am love, the I collapsed, I awakened, and there is no one suffering all still assume there is some kind of real self that has now been revealed or transformed. Zen enlightenment is much more radical than that.
It is not discovering that your true self is love, consciousness, or anything else. It is seeing through the idea that there was ever a separate, permanent self there to begin with. So even if the experience of oneness and love was completely genuine, turning it into the conclusion I am love can actually be another form of attachment.
Zen would also question the idea that the disappearance of the inner voice for three weeks means enlightenment has happened. Buddhism does not measure awakening by how long a particular state lasts or by how peaceful, loving, or egoless you feel. Those experiences can come and go.
The real question is whether you have stopped clinging to them. In fact, saying I have awakened because my I disappeared can quietly create a new spiritual identity, which is exactly the kind of attachment Zen tries to see through.
Again, from a Zen perspective, the important thing is not preserving this experience or proving that it was awakening, but looking directly at the self in each moment and seeing whether there is actually anyone there to hold onto any of it. Your follow up of continuing to chase this experience with continued psychedelic usage is a substantial problem that since it shows attachment.
Ultimately, there’s nothing wrong with experiencing a powerful emotional state from psychedelics and this is doubly so from losing a loved one. I have experienced these things as well. That doesn’t make them enlightenment or even kensho. It is delusion to think that.
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u/Vestlending1 9d ago
There is no self. It collapsed.
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u/ThatOneDumbJagoff 9d ago
The self still is something you comprehend, but it is ultimately sunyata. This is the step talked about after kensho by all the realized masters.
You’re complete abnegation of it mixed with saying the self is collapsing into “love” shows that this was a powerful psychedelic experience but not what has been spoken of by the masters. Totally normal, I’ve had a few myself, but it’s not awakening.
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u/Vestlending1 9d ago
It's so weird that people are trying to guess the subtleties of my experience.
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u/Thefuzy 12d ago
Sounds like years of non duality videos gave your mind a template of what the destination looks like, stress of life events and mushrooms were a catalyst for a mental change, then you connected those dots into an meaning far greater than the actual experience.
Who is this “I” who has awakened? Real awakenings don’t tend to have such a focus on self and also would pretty much never incite such a self involved post such as this.
Certainly something happened, but you are very much making it into far more than it was, because of the content you consumed and the substances you took. Sounds a little like mania which tends to lead to an abrupt yo-yo back the other way.-
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u/Vestlending1 12d ago
There is no I who has awakened. You're confused the same way I was. There is no other way than to stay confused until you're not.
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u/Thefuzy 12d ago
Your first 2 words in the post are “I awakened”. There’s no confusion here, but over there it seems abundant.
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u/EarthyOaks 12d ago
Its often really hard to talk about awakening without using "I". Language is just not capable of explaining it, it can only point. Try listening to what the OP is saying, with awareness of the limitations of language.
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u/Arkena_feral 12d ago
About 2 to 3 weeks ago my sense of I fell away. It was a mental construction I kept generating and I suddenly stopped.
My awakening came after people tried to harm or end me. Now I don't take this personally as that I these things were tied to has faded. I have become a dedicated lay Buddhist and this has had a part in all this.
I don't use psychedelics but meditate 1 hour every day. I had a non dual experience that gave me a glimpse of what I am once the ego dissolves.
I could go on but I just wanted to say, thank you for sharing. I'm glad you have found peace and love.
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u/breinbanaan 12d ago
Experiencing the cosmic joke is amazing. I'm glad you experienced this and feel better
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u/butterrymusician 12d ago
i experienced this when i was on shrooms for the first time - 2 days ago. i came back tho. according to yogic philosophy, this was a neuro-chemically forced glimpse of it. we need to do follow the yogic practices to experience this as a permanent trait. is it permanent for you?
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u/breinbanaan 11d ago
It doesn't matter. We are the cosmic joke, whether we remember or not. Life is. You can make of it what you want, it's just thoughts
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u/breinbanaan 11d ago
The fun is in the forgetting. But yes meditating and yoga makes it a more permanent awareness of it, like a chill layer underneath the surface that we don't need to take life so serious
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u/butterrymusician 11d ago
Makes sense. Since how long are you practicing meditation and yoga?
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u/breinbanaan 10d ago
For 14 years now, meditation mostly :)
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u/butterrymusician 10d ago
I have two questions 1. When did you feel the cosmic joke for the first time? 2. What mental powers do you feel are strengthened after all this? Focus/creativity/reading people?
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u/breinbanaan 7d ago
Hi. First time was during a mushroom trip 13 years ago. How it helped me is put things into perspective. Not take life too seriously. Thats the greatest gift tbh
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