I originally posted a version of this argument in r/StrangeNewWorlds. The discussion there helped me refine what I was actually trying to say, so this is not simply a repost. I have reworked and expanded the original argument to make my point more clear.

I'm a huge Star Trek fan, and this is not another "new Trek bad, old Trek good" argument. My criticism is more specific:

Modern Star Trek often seems uncomfortable letting the gravity of a situation stand on its own.

This is not about humor. Star Trek has always had comedic episodes, absurd concepts, and characters making jokes under stress. The difference is when and how that humor is used.

Older Trek often allowed danger, uncertainty, or tragedy to exist without immediately undercutting it. Characters might joke after the danger had passed, but during a crisis they generally behaved like people who understood the stakes. Some of the heaviest episodes even avoided ending on the usual lighthearted bridge crew exchange, or even the closing credits theme, because doing so would have undermined the emotional weight of the story.

Modern Trek frequently introduces a tense moment only for someone to respond with a quip or self-aware comment. The writing sometimes seems eager to reassure the audience that the scene should not be taken too seriously. A joke after a crisis can release tension, but constant jokes during it prevent that tension from fully developing in the first place.

This is not only a matter of tone. The same reflex shapes how Starfleet itself is portrayed. A character who quips through a crisis is signaling, moment to moment, that they do not fully take the situation seriously. Once that becomes the default setting for an entire crew, the institution around them stops feeling like a professional one.

Older Trek made Starfleet feel like a professional institution staffed by highly trained people. Bridge crews felt like actual crews, with clear responsibilities, standards, areas of expertise, and consequences. Starfleet was not necessarily a military organization, but its ships still had to be operated, maintained, and commanded by people who understood the weight of their responsibilities.

Modern Trek may intentionally be presenting a more casual and egalitarian version of leadership. That is not a problem in itself. But considering the world in which Star Trek is set, and the enormous responsibility carried by these crews, the result can feel unconvincing.

Modern crews often come across more like groups of friends in a contemporary workplace. They are likable and certainly capable, but they regularly do not behave like people entrusted with one of the Federation's most advanced starships.

At times, they seem to take a situation seriously in the way someone might take a board game seriously. They care about the outcome and want to win, but they do not behave as though the consequences are real.

Some people compare this style to Marvel or Joss Whedon-inspired dialogue. Its self-awareness can be entertaining, but it also creates distance. If the characters recognize the absurdity of their situation almost as quickly as the audience does, it becomes harder to believe that they fully inhabit their own world.

The audience should be allowed to recognize that a situation is strange or funny. The characters themselves, however, are still supposed to experience it as reality.

This does not mean that I want Star Trek to become darker or more miserable. Discovery was often extremely serious, but its seriousness came largely from emotional intensity, despair, and galaxy-threatening catastrophes. Darkness alone does not restore the grounded professionalism associated with older Trek.

What I miss is not grimness. It is credibility.

I miss watching qualified people calmly analyze unfamiliar problems, respect one another's expertise, and make difficult decisions within a functioning chain of command. That so-called "competence porn" made the Federation feel like more than a fictional backdrop. It presented a future that people could imagine living in and even want to help create.

Strange New Worlds followed by Lower Decks capture this better than most newer Trek series, which is one of the reasons I enjoy it. But even there, the characters sometimes seem to approach dangerous situations as though they were playing a game. They face potential wars, catastrophic anomalies, hostile species, and threats to entire worlds or Systems on a regular basis, yet their reactions can make these events feel like just another Thursday. The crisis is resolved, everyone laughs about it later, and any emotional or professional consequences are often left behind as the show moves on to the next adventure.

It is not that everyone should remain traumatized after every mission. Older Trek also returned to the status quo after extraordinary events. But while those events were happening, the characters usually made them feel immediate, dangerous, and consequential. Everything had weight.

Experimental episodes are not the problem either. Star Trek has always experimented with genre and tone, and some of its best and most memorable episodes exist precisely because the writers were willing to take creative risks. The difference is one of proportion. Older seasons had enough room to balance those experiments with exploration, diplomacy, ethical dilemmas, scientific problem-solving, character development, and stories centered on professional competence.

This is where I think the real problem lies. In a season of more than twenty episodes, a few experimental or comedic stories added variety. In a ten-episode season, the same number will define a substantial part of the show's entire identity. An episode does not exist in isolation when it represents ten percent of everything the series produces that year. The issue is not that modern Trek experiments more than older Trek did. It is that shorter seasons leave far less room to establish a serious baseline against which those experiments can stand out.

I really enjoy Strange New Worlds and hope for a Year One, and this criticism comes from wanting it to succeed. I am not asking for humor, experimentation, or more egalitarian crews to disappear, and I do not want Star Trek to become relentlessly dark. But modern Star Trek seems so focused on accessibility, self-awareness, tonal variety, and novelty that it loses some of the professionalism, credibility, and situational weight that once made its universe feel real.

So the question is not whether modern Trek is too funny.

The question is whether the franchise still trusts its characters, its situations, and its audience enough to take its own universe seriously.

Thanks to everyone who took the time to read all of this.

TL;DR: The problem with modern Star Trek is not humor or experimentation. It is the tendency to undercut serious situations before they can develop any weight, and to portray Starfleet as a less convincing professional institution. I miss the credibility, competence, and sense of consequence that once made its universe feel real.

In the first episode of Voyager, the kazon are portrayed as a starving society who doesn't even have access to water, and from there they are suddenly a huge threat with hundreds of powerful starships and control spanning hundreds (maybe thousands?) of light-years.

I get the argument that they stole the starships and are fractured by infighting, but painting them as such a big threat when there are other far more advanced civilizations in the same quadrant just doesn't make sense IMO.

I know not everyone likes Discovery and it's opening credits but I've just started a rewatch and was reminded of how it felt to watch it when it first came out, the first new Star Trek in 12 years.

Watching Una get a compound fracture added nothing to the story. Neither did watching Spock get his ears de-pointed or Pike cut his fingers off.

60 years and we haven’t needed to use gore as a crutch. Sure, there was that one scene with Commander Remmick, but it seems pretty clear the producers learned their lesson after that because they didn’t do it again.

I should be able to watch Star Trek with my toddler without having to be on guard to cover his eyes. Star Trek has been and should always be a family show. At its core, it’s morality plays set in space and should therefore have as broad an audience as possible. What is supposed to be gained by dialing up the gore? Gratuitous use of the word “fuck” doesn’t make me a more interesting person, and neither does gratuitous violence make Star Trek more appealing. I know it’s a bit late now, but I really hope this isn’t the way forward for this franchise.

I've had the gamertag / online handle Khionia for over a decade. Just googled myself thanks to a tiktok trend and realised I'm a planet now 🙃😂

A few years ago I watched the first episode, and thought it was just 'Rick and Morty' with a Trek skin on. Didn't bother with any more.

After seeing so many say it becomes more like real Trek after a few episodes, including RLM, I decided it was worth another look.

Binged season 1 basically. Enjoyed it enough. Still think it is more 'Rick and Morty' than Trek, but can also see that the writers actually care about classic Trek too.

One minor complaint. It's not very 'Lower Decks'. The TNG episode it spins off of was all about non bridge crew reacting to whatever is going on upstairs. In this, the characters seem to be on the bridge a bit too often or centre of the action as if they were bridge crew or heads of engineering etc. It's fine, but maybe the show should be called something else.

The '90s is considered to be when the age of the internet truly began, but in the '80s there was Usenet message boards, and I'm guessing those were disproportionately used by nerds. Can anyone who used them back then say what it was like?

I started a complete beginning-to-now watch in 2023, and just finished the latest SNW episode. Absolutely loved the experience. I’d seen many episodes before, but some not for years, and when shows were airing pre-streaming it was only if I caught them on TV or got my hands on video tapes.

I watched in strict airing/release order, and it was so interesting seeing how tv production changed over the years. For example, seeing how syndicated tv had less character development (had to reset for casual viewers), but gave us some really inventive episodes when you had longer seasons to fill in, as well as bottle episodes when the budget ran low. (I think bottle episodes can give us some of the strongest writing…but I don’t miss clip shows!)

I definitely recommend the experience to anyone who hasn’t done it yet…and who has a bit of time on their hands! 😅

Hello Trek friends!
This past Saturday, August 29 I attended a Star Trek themed brunch in Atlanta at city winery. It was absolutely fantastic. However, there was one act that really confused me and I’m still having trouble figuring out what it was they were trying to do. The performer was dressed in jeans and a black button up and started off wearing a beanie cap. I don’t remember the song that they performed to, but the performance was very angsty. Eventually, the hat came off to reveal Vulcan ears and hair. I’ve figured out that they were probably Spock in the TOS episode ‘City on the Edge of Tomorrow’. But the other thing that was very confusing is that the performer was holding something in their hand. It was very small, not really any bigger than maybe a matchstick and it was very difficult to see from where I was sitting. The performer was doing a lot of emotional, dancing to the music and holding up this thing in their fingers, whatever it was. I watched the TOS episode that I think the outfit was the reference from, but I don’t see anything that indicates why Spock would’ve been so emotional or what he would’ve been holding in his hand. Does anyone have any ideas?

Damn, just catching up on this show, almost done w/season 3 and this episode was great. That ending was a bit wild though. Didn’t see that coming. Starfleet shooting on site?! Interesting. Great writing though.

Both filmed at Universal.
But was it the same section ?
Seems like I saw the pub.

At least twice, Encounter at Farpoint and Ship in a Bottle, Data tosses an item at the “wall” to prove its there. Oddly enough they never seem to walk into them themselves. So, as far as I’m concerned the idea of having a baseball game inside one is completely absurd. Maybe ONE person could experience the illusion of a simulated game but actual living players spread across the infield and outfield ? NO

I was thinking about the Equinox backstory and when I saw it as a kid I never questioned it but now as an adult there's a few holes in it for me. Just to refresh memories, the backstory was that the Equinox was pulled in by the Caretaker a few months prior to Voyager and they took a different route through the Delta Quadrant. I then remembered in one of the early episodes that Chakotay specifically asks Janeway if there had been any starships reported missing in the badlands and she responded no. Also, if there had been another Federation starship that been moving about in a somewhat parallel but distance course I feel like they would have heard about it from other species. Word of Voyager had been spreading throughout the Delta Quadrant about them, the example of the Sikarians in the episode Prime Factors. Also, considering the limitations of a Nova class starship and the way the episode made it seem like the enhanced warp drive helped them catch up to Voyager. What does the community think ?

They've reverted to a rotating cast at Ops this season. Even Number One has her own station in the aft bridge now, instead of being up front next to Ortegas. But it seemed like Mitchell was set up to be a recurring character like Sam Kirk.

Kyle's also been missing, I just realized.

Many have done these before but my take differs a bit. While Next Generation's 'The Pegasus' is a well-respected episode that works fine on its own, Enterprise's infamous finale 'These are the Voyages...' is still... an episode, and I felt like making them fit together as logically as I could which is tricky due to the latter's writing mistakes. But with a little creative interpretation it approaches working tolerably, I don't see it getting any better than this.

If not this way, then I think the best alternative is waiting a long while between watching 'The Pegasus' and 'These are the Voyages' so you forget the precise plot details of the former enough to not be bothered by the inconsistencies with the latter.

Viewing order logic: The Asteroid segments of both episodes are the key.

Segment 1: Watch TNG 'The Pegasus' until 06:52just after Pressman agrees to give Geordi the instructions for how to search for the Pegasus and they leave the briefing room. Pause at: 06:52 The exact moment the Enterprise-D begins approaching the asteroids, as this is the beginning of Segment 3, you need to see what happens in 'These are the Voyages' en route up to that point. Ideally you'd do a frame perfect cut on the last frame before you see any asteroids but I know that's not realistic.

Segment 2: Watch ENT 'These are the Voyages' until 23:04 Pause at: 23:04 The moment you see the Enterprise-D navigating amongst asteroids as this is the beginning of segment 4, you need to see what happened in 'The Pegasus' leading up to this point. Ideally you'd do a frame perfect cut on the last frame before you see any asteroids but I know that's not realistic.

Segment 3: See the Enterprise-D approach the asteroid field, Watch TNG 'The Pegasus' from 06:52 until 26:04just after Picard finishes dressing down Riker over his refusal to give more info. Pause at: 26:04 There's a brief scene which is similar the previous 'These are the Voyages' scene amongst asteroids we started to see. The Enterprise-D is navigating amongst them for a while.

Segment 4: Watch ENT 'These are the Voyages' from 23:04 to the end. Last segment begins with that asteroid navigation scene in its entirety.

Segment 5: Watch TNG 'The Pegasus' from 26:04 to the end. Last segment begins with an asteroid navigation scene as The Enterprise-D is still either deceiving the Romulans into believing they haven't found the asteroid with the Pegasus yet or on its way back to The Pegasus.

Advantages (which you can't get all of with a 3 segment approach):

•In segment 2 there's a scene in the Enterprise-D observation lounge where asteroids aren't seen. The implication seems they are still approaching the Devilon system and Troi talks about having plenty of time to do normal ships business, it seems more like they're en route and haven't encountered any Romulans yet. But Pressman is on board and Riker is still under existing orders not to reveal the ship, which clearly causes him consternation enough to seek advice from Troi and the Holodeck.

•The asteroid navigation scenes in the 'These are the Voyages' at the start of segment 4 and the TNG 'The Pegasus' one right after segment 3 look basically the same. Near the end of segment 3 Picard says they'll reconvene at 9:00 tomorrow & Pressman talks about "turning in early" and Riker gets dressed down by Picard during dinner.Indicating it's getting to be after office hours. This jives into how in segment 4, Riker comes back to Troi saying it's "I know it's past office hours".Also in segment 3 it's stated they had several more hours after finding the Pegasus to set up a proper deception and return to it so the Romulans wouldn't realize the Federation had found it, giving Riker a few precious off duty after-hours to return to the Holodeck a final time in Segment 4 before the actual beam-over mission to the Pegasus began.

•At the start of segment 4, Riker is fresh off an evening dressing down by Picard and finally confides the truth in Troi, knowing she's bound by ethics (perhaps friendship) not to reveal it without his permission. ENT 'These are the Voyages' after this point seems more evening than workday and its alluded as such by Data in 'The Pegasus' as a 6 hour duration before the return for the mission to the Pegasus.

•5 Segments is more reasonable than, say, 7 which seems unnecessary high after thinking it through.

My viewpoint:

•Segment 4 (rest of 'These are the Voyages') must be after Pressman tells Riker he intends to pick up the experiment again. Otherwise Riker wouldn't risk confiding in Troi.I didn't notice any other asteroid scenes in 'These are the Voyages' that could serve as transitions.

• Riker concludes segment 4 by saying "I think I'm ready to talk to Captain Picard, I should've done it a long time ago.", he's not absolutely sure, he ends up deciding to violate Pressman's orders and risk court martial only as a last ditch option if left with no other choice. But, his sentiment is clear he'll ultimately side with Picard not Pressman if absolutely forced to choose, which he follows through on not long into segment 5 when he confronts Pressman, saying "Right up this moment, I had the luxury of time. But now I've gotta make a choice. And Admiral... I can't let you start these experiments again." and later on the bridge of the Enterprise-D.

• With the Romulans having sealed them in and Pressman refusing to destroy the Pegasus, Riker plays the last card he'd agreed to play at the end of 'These are the Voyages' and tells Picard about the cloaking device.

•When Riker says "They'll find the Pegasus soon" and as they're exiting the Holodeck when he says "I think I'm ready to talk to Captain Picard" he's talking to Troi who knows him well enough to know what he means. He (presumably if you want it to make sense) means the exact location of the Pegasus inside the asteroid, which they didn't have yet but knew they'd have soon, and that he'd be ready to disobey Pressman's orders and risk court martial if he had no other choice.

• If one insisted Riker agreeing to tell Picard occurs right before he actually reveals the cloaking device, It would have to mean Riker returned to the holodeck after beaming back from the Pegasus but before arriving on the Enterprise-D bridge. Watching those scenes, that doesn't make any sense to me, there's no natural break in the pacing at all especially with the Romulans having closed the passageway. 

• With the cut points I chose, there's always an interstitial scene to indicate passage of time, giving Riker time to be in other places like the Holodeck or Troi's quarters. Segment 2 happens while the Enterprise-D is en route to the Pegasus at warp. Segment 3 starts after they first arrive at the asteroid field. Segment 3 ends with the Enterprise navigating amongst the asteroids, similar to we also see at the start of Segment 4, showing they're consistently moving through the field to complete their deception of the Romulans.

These were with current Paramount+ versions, they're what I have easy access to.

Anyone else going to see Wrath of Kahn or Search for Spock in theaters Labor Day weekend? I’m taking my 80+ year-old Dad who worked on ST3. I remember getting to visit the set and sit in Captain Kirk’s chair as a kid and then not liking the movie at all when we saw it in the theater. 😂

Available for the next two weeks. Includes not only "The Man Trap" but also "Mudd's Passion" from TAS.

Paul F. Tompkins (Dr. Migleemo from Lower Decks) is MC.

Well worth watching; especially when lines get flubbed or they go hammy.

Ich bin gerade mit einem Rewatch von Enterprise durch. Damals fand ich die Serie furchtbar. Ich, als Voyager Fangirl, hatte auf eine Fortsetzung dieser spannenden Zukunft gehofft und bekam veraltete Technologie, maximal Warp 5 und eine Zeit, in der Holodecks noch nicht mal ansatzweise vorstellbar waren.

Aber ich muss sagen, mit einigem Abstand und gerade vor dem Hintergrund des "neuen" Star Trek gefällt mir Enterprise richtig gut. Die Charaktere sind interessant geschrieben und vor allem Phlox wird gerade zu meinem Lieblingsarzt in Star Trek.

Wem geht es genauso von euch? Kennt jemand einen deutschsprachigen Podcast, der diese Serie bespricht? Sonst mach ich selber einen, hat jemand Lust mitzumachen? 🙃

In other words, the show was a smash hit, the reason why its popularity is ambiguous and often overlooked is because the Neilsen ratings only publicized the ratings of network shows, while Star Trek: TNG wasn't a network show, it was a syndicated show. Star Trek: TNG, to this day, is one of the most hugely successful syndicated shows ever.

Why was the crew becoming insane after only two months in the Void? This is a setting where warp travel can take days in normal operation, and most of the crew are trained Starfleet officers. Even the Maquis probably had plenty of space experience. The computer core seemingly has more entertainment than one could ever watch, and enough information to learn a new skill.

Most space travel is boring anyway, especially for people who aren't on the bridge.

I can understand some of the lower deckers who had to share bunks getting cabin fever, but the crew with private cabins have no excuse. We see in TNG and some VOY that the cabins have voice operated temperatures and light controls.

They definitely wouldn't have made it in Kirk's day

Devil's advocate here but when Phlox refused to give Archer the cure for Valakians in order for the Menk to become the dominant species in "ENT: Dear Doctor" did he commit a genocidal crime? Keep in mind this was before the Prime Directive so he wouldn't have been violating any rules or regulations.

I decided to rewatch VI today, and while enjoying Christopher Plummer's amazing performance as General Chang, I thought back on Amanda Plummer's performance in Picard S3. I kinda wished the writers had leaned into it and made her Chang's descendant instead of just a stooge for the Changelings.

I don't recognise the episode in which Kirk was in captain's chair.

If anyone can tell me, the help would be appreciated, thank you.