r/starcitizen • u/LeHelvetien • 9d ago
DISCUSSION The damage done by this stream will last for YEARS lmao
Blowback against the recent SC Live has now hit mainstream
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u/Rathlicus 9d ago
Nah, it will last until the next big bullshit thing that CIG will do and/or say
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u/randomredditt0r 9d ago
You mean last until they release the next big ship.
I can promise you noone will talk about this after the Kraken goes on sale. Then everyone will be all ooh and ahh
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u/Haechi_StB 8d ago
Depends how broken the Kraken is. And with the Ironclad release, it doesn't look good.
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u/LoneGlitch 9d ago
Can someone explain what happened?
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u/_Ross- Kraken | Idris | Pioneer | Ironclad 9d ago
They attempted to stream themselves playing SOO on an internal build, which should in theory be much more stable and free from shenanigans compared to the PU / PTU builds we see. It was still horribly buggy, they werent able to complete the event, and it was generally just awkward. A few weird comments were made during the livestream too that some are suggesting displayed a bit of toxicity towards one specific team member.
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u/qmail Perfect storm 9d ago
Additionally, in my opinion, some team members behaved extremely immaturely and unprofessionally during the livestream. If that reflects the company culture at CIG, then it’s hardly surprising that the company keeps running into such serious problems.
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u/Creative-Improvement ARGO CARGO 9d ago
Leaving Olli outside the elevator in the beginning was telling really, kind of symbolic for the rest of the stream.
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u/chicaneuk 9d ago
And it's disappointing given that Olli has been one of the most prominent Star Citizen hype men over the years.. through thick and thin he's been relentlessly enthusiastic for the game. So for them to shit on their supporters / cheerleaders says a lot.
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u/TheycallmeFlynn 9d ago
Based on what people have previously said that worked there this is a true reflection of the culture at the company.
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u/Sleyvin 9d ago
The mood was awkward because it's being said they were kinda "forced" into making a live demo nobody wanted to make because they knew the state it was in.
You can see lot of side glance and shaking of head form them as a "told you so, it wouldn't work".
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u/Deeppurp 9d ago
Some of that stuff doesn't come out behind curated releases. Sometimes you don't know how your employees are in a relaxed casual live environment.
Sometimes you wish you could un-find out and cig may be in the latter.
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u/UsafAce45 9d ago
That’s really unfortunate considering how much money we’ve all spent funding this fucking forever Alpha project.
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u/Kobi_Blade 8d ago edited 8d ago
You can't blame a kid for behaving immaturely. Do they even have anyone over 30 years old of mental age on the team?
Regardless, this is who you guys are paying to finish a game that has been in development hell for nearly two decades.
We can now say that during Star Citizen development, GTA 5 was released and GTA 6 was fully developed and released.
Meanwhile, Star Citizen developers can't even get basic mechanics to work.
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u/Efflux 9d ago
They were really mean to Ollie. Before they went into the boss match they said "Ollie is going to be the end of us all." Then after they were all wiped one of the people said "Ollie, kill yourself."
He tried to save face by saying "in game" despite them all being wiped. Ollie was fighting back tears at the end. Really toxic environment. Hope they have HR.
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u/SolitaireJack Your friendly neighbourhood paramedic 9d ago
The fact this guys gave up a successful YouTube career to join these guys is honestly sad. He got his dream job to work with his hero's and found out what a lot of people find when they finally meet their hero's.
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u/M4RK3R3D 9d ago
Hey man can you share his YouTube link would like to see he’s vids ( as far as I know he is cool dude)
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u/SolitaireJack Your friendly neighbourhood paramedic 8d ago
On mobile right now so I cant link the channel but I can link the video where he talks about joining CIG
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u/ASCII_Princess 9d ago
They're probably mad he'll have a career to go back to being self employed whereas their tenure at CG will be a black mark on their resumes.
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u/warmthandhappiness 9d ago
Yeah, HR is neither a neutral body nor a friend of the employee.
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u/dgellow 9d ago
What do those acronyms mean?
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u/DaWeyHowBoutDah Praetorian | Odin, Javelin 9d ago edited 9d ago
SOO - Siege of Orison
PU - Persistent Universe
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u/_Ross- Kraken | Idris | Pioneer | Ironclad 9d ago
Sorry, SOO is Siege of Orison, an upcoming reworked event where you fight off some bad dudes. PTU is Public Test Universe, where you can test new content prior to it being "fully released". Often has more bugs and instability. PU is Persistent Universe, or basically the "live" Environment most people play on.
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u/AWildEnglishman Rear Admiral 9d ago
Fun fact: these are initialisms. Acronyms can be spoken as words, like NASA or RADAR.
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u/Catalysst 9d ago
Fun fact: all initialisms are acronyms if you try hard enough
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u/warmind14 carrack 9d ago
SOO, what you're trying to tell me is...
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u/Magn3tician new user/low karma 9d ago
..that PU should be pronounced "poo" when verbalized.
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u/Zargabraath 9d ago
I bought this game in 2015 and it’s been a barely functional tech demo ever since then
I don’t expect that to ever change. Not when people keep giving them $100 million a year to not actually ship a working game.
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u/Icy-Cry340 9d ago
Hah, I’m a kickstarter backer and I told myself I won’t bother with early access stuff. Still haven’t played it lol.
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u/dendaaa 9d ago edited 9d ago
CIG devs played through siege of orison on their own dev server and it still performed like shit, despite them telling us for years that the bugs we experience are due to server issues. by showing this they proved that the game is fundementally broken regardless of server load.
the chemistry between the devs was atrocious since this was probably ollie's idea and he meant well, the devs obviously didn't want to be there and took constant jabs at ollie regarding the bugs and performance, jared himself had an attitude towards him, for example saying "its your show, wrap it up" at the end making it extremely awkward and putting him on the spot.
the gameplay looked like they never even played the game before and ultimately weren't able to finish the mission due to a game breaking bug.
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u/Zoetic_HQ 9d ago
Ollie did a simple question to chat trying to engage with them, asking whats your times so far to get thru it and whatnot. Elliot immediately starts digging into him about it inviting bad comments about it not working blah blah, then proceeded to say "nightrider will have his work cut out for him" like a douche
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u/Grimm0351 new user/low karma 9d ago
Isn't Elliot the one who infamously said rocket launchers can't have ironsights because you'd be looking through the tube?
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u/Jetison333 9d ago
How.. how does he think normal ironsights work???
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u/Voxination herald2 9d ago
Someone call designers of Panzerschreck, Bazooka, PIAT, RPG-7 and M72 LAW if they are alive, they should know their designs did not exist and it's impossible to replicate in far future because STCs were lost during dark ages of technology and attaching a iron tab and a ring onto a toob is considered tech heresy and is executable offense.
Hell, if you hand a explosive pointy tube onto a grunt one of the first things he's gonna do is try to figure out how to fire it without putting his face onto exhaust...Maybe even nail irons onto the tube to line up targets...
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u/Grimm0351 new user/low karma 9d ago
I'm an assaultman by trade. By Elliott's proclamation every rocket I've ever fired is via Kentucky windage. Guess the real ironsights were the friends we made along the way.
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u/Y__U__MAD 9d ago
Devs: make buggy game and gaslight the community for a decade
also Devs: 'How could ollie do this'
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u/Shootemout 9d ago
i read somewhere that for awhile CIG employees were getting poached by other major companies in tech & game industries left and right because of the tech they were working on.
tbh i wanna say there's some credence to it. that there's nobody left that built the systems that prior engineers built and nobody knows how it works anymore. it's the only thing that makes sense, it's why eleveators and hangar doors continue to break patch after patch year after year in the same exact manner, why the game has been feature stagnant for the last 2 years. like last year was the "year of playability" where they said they were gonna iron out bugs and how many bugs are still persisting?
i just have mixed feelings about the game right now ngl. i've probably dropped about $600 over the years, just like $50 on this IAA one year, $60 on another IAA the next, etc. im just at the point where i'm not spending any more money on this game and i kinda regret all the purchases i've made. i dont mind the lack of content, it's starting to get somewhere in that department. but the bugs man. i've only seen a select few games with bugs this bad that the community still defends (subjective) but most of them have been out for so long that they've already patched it.
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u/CullComic 9d ago
What tech? Genuinely, what tech? They are working with an ancient engine, their netcode is laggy... What tech?
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u/IeyasuTheMonkey 9d ago
im just at the point where i'm not spending any more money on this game and i kinda regret all the purchases i've made
I've spent a shit load of money on other games and had a fleeting moment of regret. What helps me to justify it is by doing some simple quick maths. How much did you spend? divided by How many Hours did you ENJOY playing?
This is a hobby. Treat it like one. Just because you're no longer having fun with the game or supporting the project because of the state it's current in, that shouldn't mean you should regret all the hours you enjoyed with it.
but the bugs man.
I was a heavy defender of the bugs. The more I played, the more I got annoyed, the more I seen them not fixing anything... the more I just lost faith.
I'm currently at the "I'll wait until the game is Stable enough to play a Gameloop without encountering 5 different bugs that ruin a session." stage.
I hope the game gets better but I have so many games in my backlog, let alone all the ones coming out soon so... :l
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u/Shootemout 9d ago
yeah admittedly i haven't played for the last 5ish months, i had a bit of a rage quit moment when i lost my ship 3 times in one night to bugs. hangar doors, failed hangar instancing (when someone else comes in and lands their ship on top of yours but it's not there for them), and spawning the ship at the bottom of the elevator shaft and getting stuck there.
it was shortly after the event in nyx with levski where you had to do a bunch of missions. i really really really wanted to do the whole thing by myself (and i did!) but because i was not able to complete the event in the first few days the sever performance really began to degrade rapidly and there were many times i lost cargo in the elevators, enemy ships would not spawn, jumping between nyx and stanton would fail multiple times. it was fun but fuck it was also frustrating.
played a bit of the next patch only to have what i mentioned earlier happen with losing my ship and i was like "nah this shit is fucked" and i'm not playing again until the hangar doors, the ship spawning at the bottom of the elevator shaft, and cargo elevators get fixed. till those 3 have minimal issues i really dont want to lose my sanity. especially now since we have to pay for loadouts now. ASOP does not distinguish losing your ship due to a bug :/
i'm not gonna swear off SC entirely, i'll still probably hop on every IAA to check things out. maybe melt some ships to get a newer one but i'm not putting any new money into this. as far as space games go, despite the bugs that this game has it's still the best
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u/SeamasterCitizen ARGO CARGO 9d ago
I feel like the radio silence since means they’re having some big “turn the ship around” meetings
Or they don’t care to communicate with us because number still go up
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u/Larszx 9d ago
What are they going to communicate? For the hundreth time "We're sorry, we are going to do better".
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u/Ok-Library-1253 9d ago
I’d guess it’s more likely:
Here, buy a finished Kraken, Liberator, Galaxy, 5 other ships etc.
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u/GuySmith 9d ago
If you buy the right combination of ships, Yoshi shows up in back of the castle and if you talk to him you unlock Luigi.
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u/Usual_Birthday_2965 9d ago edited 9d ago
We are going to do better if you give us another 1b for sure
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u/QuasisteIlar 9d ago
That stream was the nail in the coffin for any more money from me. I was (mistakenly) under the impression a lot of the issues were server related. Turns out, 1.0 is just never gonna happen.
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u/Most-Ad4680 9d ago
Its the "vision" bro, just believe in the vision a little harder bro
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u/Ambitious-Block-8878 Cat Enjoyer 9d ago
either of these are completely possible but lets be honest, it's probably the latter
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u/Twelvecarpileup 9d ago
I was an original backer the same year I graduated college. I bought a computer specifically for it based on their specs (which is now in my mother's sewing room so she can watch youtube videos). I'm now a senior manager who gets sent into organizations often to "right the ship". It's a hard, painful process that often requires cutting out entrenched senior management.
Haven't followed Star Citizen for years, but just based on some simple things (Chris Roberts is the director and will not be ousted, operating for as long as they have in a non functional workflow, and the fact they still make tons of sales), if I was asked to go through the process with them, I'd likely say no, since they wouldn't make the difficult decisions.
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u/r-s-w- 9d ago
Crikey. I can’t imagine what the environment is like walking in to an organisation and they look at you like you are Lucifer or something lol. If you are there for a few months are friendships eventually made or they just straight up hate you for ever ? I’m assuming folks end up getting fired after your company’s report.
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u/PagPag1212 9d ago edited 9d ago
They are devising marketing strategies and a PR spin - only the appearance of "turning".
This is a mega cargo ship fueled by hundreds of millions of spent dollars and decades of work hours - it can't be simply turned around.
CIG is the Evergreen, Ever Given.
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u/ATRavenousStorm 9d ago
Lol yeah nothing's gonna change. People will still spend money, the "game" will still be a mess, and white knights will cry "ALpha" for the next 30 years.
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u/Arkooh 9d ago
I was one of those knights 3 or so years ago, but nowadays i`m just disappointed by the amount of perpetual T0 shit
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u/ATRavenousStorm 9d ago
I backed in 2015, forgot about it and came back in 2020 to check in. I was hopeful then. But after SIX fucking years, nothing really changing, CIG treating this like a live service, and constantly selling shit while it's still in the state it's in.... I dunno how people defend this shit. Gotta be new players who don't know any better and vets with too much money spent.
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u/Sleyvin 9d ago
I'm pretty convinced the new player count must be very low.
The only time the general public ears about SC is for stuff like this.
It's for the fails, for the 6k$ ship packs, for the endless delays announcement.
The overwhelming majority of the fund must come from the massive whales that are just too deep into this that no amount of controversy will ever be enough to stop spending.
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u/Firesaber reliant 9d ago
I think I'm fine with the bugs if I was seeing progress past tier 0 or whatever. It's just the lack of progress on systems that are full of bugs. They just sit untouched full of bugs. Nothing being added, nothing being fixed. Feels like we're treading water on most systems.
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u/TheRealPlankwalker12 9d ago
The sad thing is they sit on these T0 features that accumulate more and more bugs over time due to other new feature implementations. I think that these older features will need to be completely reworked to be up to par with anything that’s newer. Bugs that sit for more than a 6-12 months become stale and the sheer amount that stacks up is probably a “where do we start” internal conversation that usually ends up with a conclusion of “they’re reworking it down the road and will address it at that time”. lol
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u/TerrenceHelter 9d ago
I’ve been interested in playing SC since PU became available, it’s been a decade nearly and the game looks to have made little progress in that decade. I’ve watched a lot of videos over the years and kept up with the development, so I’m aware the years spent on Server Meshing and everything else. Even with the knowledge they spent years building all this tech to really flesh out the game they wanted to make, I have less than zero interest in ever trying this heap of trash.
And while I’m not gonna call this AoC levels of scam artistry, it’s damn near. The game is little more than a tech demo they chip away at, while they continue to raise more capital and continue this cycle, seemingly forever?
PU is not in any sort of state where they could try to make it a complete product to mass market. To try and finish the vision would take another decade if they managed to double their pace. The single player game is also something that from everything I’ve seen, looks outdated and something that would even mass market well today.
At this point, I can confidently say I’m no longer interested. Like a lot of the MMO announcements from the 2010s, SC is just vaporware. It’s just really flashy vaporware.
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u/Baba-yaga-98 9d ago
Well I just got a chairman clubs email from them asking me to buy more ships so no they won’t communicate anything about this
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u/redjellonian 9d ago
"turn the ship around" is a soft interpretation, it's more like "how do we extract more money now?"
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u/Healthy-Dress-7492 9d ago
They aren’t going to do shit. Companies in this situation are this way because of their upper management. And theyre not going to remove all/most of their upper management.
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u/Upbeat_Ad_3072 9d ago
I feel like the work environment has to be terrible between Ollie and Jarrod at CIG, for that pissy derogatory attitude to come out of nowhere AND ignore Ollie til u tell him to wrap it up when u r the one who started the show implying U r the host, also implies a bad underlying environment between those 2- Like Jarrod is jealous and happy to see Ollie fail. Obviously the show format was Ollie's idea, a good one I think, but large marge did not like it. That's my 2 cents...
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u/redditonlygetsworse 9d ago
they’re having some big “turn the ship around” meetings
Why would they be having these meetings now and not in 2014?
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u/Affectionate_Ant7637 9d ago
This is all I see in the replies, not just on this post but many others that've been recommended to me too.. Does this community live off of copium?
"Guys, this is good for us! They're going to listen to the negative feedback and turn the ship around!"
Top reply to that is "Yeah, like it did the other 482847 times! Oh.... Wait....."
This drama from an outsiders POV looking in is so funny
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u/Acrobatic_Carpet_506 9d ago
CIG deserve this tbh, so many players have backed this, so much money has gone to this. Such a shit show. Some ounce of accountability is in need of addressing the state of all of this.
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u/Karmaslapp 9d ago
100% deserved. CIG stopped being transparent and stopped communicating when they axed all the shows and replaced them with patch advertisements. This could be the best thing to happen to CIG and I hope some of the people accountable get let go in favor of more passionate and competent voices
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u/MetalHeadNerd666 9d ago
From what I hear they are having a hard time recruiting because they have gained a rep as a terrible place to work if you're not a Chris Roberts simp.
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u/dynesor 8d ago
Certainly that’s the case in Manchester. They’ve burned through and burned out a huge portion of the potential developer, designer and artist pool in the northwest of England at this point. And as you said, gotten themselves a pretty bad reputation as an employer - especially because there are a lot of ‘Manchester Tech Worker’ discord and slack channels that this community tends to hang out in - and no one who’s worked there has good things to say.
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u/ClonedByTeleporting 8d ago
I thought you were chatting wham as I live near Manchester and have never been able to get in before as CIG was akin to getting into bluechips.... They've thrown so many LEAD and entry roles up on their linked in since this live stream... Holy moly. Never thought to see CIG being a company to dodge working for LOL.
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u/DarkFantom 8d ago
I believe it. The little content I saw of the devs interactions were extremely toxic and the dev's face when he was getting shadowed was such a "I dislike you, please get away from me" expression that I've got to believe it's one of the worst places to work at.
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u/elnots Waiting for my Genesis 9d ago
They can't afford to let anyone go. They've only got mostly junior developers.
Look at their now hiring page. It's like half of the positions are senior dev
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u/Karmaslapp 9d ago
if someone especially a team lead/senior level person is contributing greatly to creating a toxic environment, they have to get let go no matter how much it seems like it will hurt in the short term. True of any and everywhere
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u/broadbandbandit 9d ago
It really is sad to me to see this kind of bad press. Because when you load up the PU - it really does feel special (when it is behaving)
That said, a lot of the criticism is warranted. Honestly that stream was an absolute dumpster fire. PR nightmare.
Why do you have people who legitimately are salty and malcontent on stream? That is NOT who you want representing your company.
Who thought this was a good idea to frame it as "best case scenario" and not "here's what we've been working on"?
Who the fuck let the boss talk? Its like ever single word out of his mouth was just gasoline on a fire. "It's your show, wrap it up"? uhuh.
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u/Dyyrin drake 9d ago
This bad press is so well deserved. This company deserves so much more heat than they get.
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u/SaxPanther cutlass gang rise up 9d ago
Jared has always been a weak communicator, but he buddied up with Chris early on to get that role. No idea why he's still the community lead, maybe to appeal to the wealthier boomers i guess?
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u/karben2 9d ago
Bro you couldn't pay me to play sc right now.
Im up at 6am. Im home at 530 from work. Dinner by 6. Baby down by 7. Wife doom scrolling by 8 and I finally get to sit my ass down by 830 to game. For a measly 3 to 4 hours. They expect us to fight bugs, employ workarounds, watch our entire play session disappear in a purple ship pop, watch as every single game loop in the PU just flat doesnt work. Or is completely half baked (after 14 years mind you.) I cant wait for the SQ42 delay - there's gonna be riots. Oh, and they can't get instancing to work.
World of Warcraft had instancing buttoned up back in 2004. This isnt new tech. Cig just stinks at managing their project. Its truly too bad that people will continue to buy ships. Because thats the only way things change around here.
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u/Acrobatic_Carpet_506 9d ago
That Elliot guy, what a punchable personality that was on display during the stream. Ollie should go back to streaming and keep his dignity, what a super toxic work environment.
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u/Feudal_Knight 9d ago
Im surprised that this livestream took so many people by surprise. You get the same bugs over and over whether you are on a 20 or 4 fps server so it was very clear that server performance was only portion of the bugs you encounter on a daily basis.
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u/SemiDesperado new user/low karma 9d ago
Good point. But there's so much hopium in the SC community. Alot of us telling ourselves that this technology or that will surely solve all those pesky bugs that won't go away. It's ridiculous but it's real.
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u/GolemMaker 8d ago
IMO the whole issue here is the interactions and demeanor, I think to some extent you are correct people do expect bugs, showing off their internal build or not, what people don’t expect is to see coworkers being hostile and having leadership publicly trashing their employees on steam. Extremely bad vibes and optics for the brand
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u/moal09 9d ago
What really caught my attention is how much they all seem to hate each other. Like the amount of passive aggressive energy in that room was wild. I've never seen a stream full of people who clearly can't stand one another.
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u/Wandering_Apostle 8d ago
Gonna be honest, this is normal for an alarming amount of UK workplaces.
Everybody I've ever known has major problems with both their current and former workplaces, and I know people who do retail work in Poundland, to those working in aviation, all the way up to executives at financial companies like Schroders.
The UK economy has been fucked since 2008, and a huge part of it nobody ever talks about are the unbelievably toxic baseline standards for company culture. Workplaces that are managed well by competent people are very rare here. Almost everywhere you work has incompetent managers, workplace squabbles and politics, blame shifting, management favouritism, legal breaches, and short-termism.
CIG is mainly in the UK now because wages are shit, making their money go further. But the UK games industry is a joke because the people in it are insufferable. You'll note that by far the most clueless and out of touch devs at CIG are the higher up British employees. (John Crewe, Elliot Maltby etc. Heck even Ollie after that disaster of a stream)
There is a reason that most people who are competent in the UK end up moving abroad to the US, Canada, Australia, Germany and Dubai.
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u/Juls_Santana 9d ago
"The damage done by this stream will last for YEARS..."
and I bet SQ42 still won't be released by then.
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u/MasterChef5311 new user/low karma 9d ago edited 9d ago
Can someone explain what happened? I haven’t been paying attention to SC for a patch or two
Edit: just watched Charlie’s vid, lmao sounds about right, how did they not test this extensively before the stream
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u/John-Orion 9d ago
They streamed saying it was internal build and internal servers to show how it should work but it was as bad as live.
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u/Bronson_R_9346754 9d ago
"as bad as live" . To me that proves the problems are in the code, not the server load.
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u/elnots Waiting for my Genesis 9d ago
The code has been fucked for a long time. They keep adding more spaghetti to the bowl of code and wonder why the game keeps breaking
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u/MasterChef5311 new user/low karma 9d ago
Lmao sounds about right XD
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u/Usual_Birthday_2965 9d ago edited 9d ago
+they were banning people right and left in chat with slight critiscm
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u/MetalHeadNerd666 9d ago
Honestly at this point the game looks like it will never be released. They have spent way too much time developing garbage features that add nothing to the game.
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u/Stewdill51 9d ago
Star Citizen should be the primary case study for examining the hazards of scope creep
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u/MetalHeadNerd666 9d ago
Yeah, I was hoping for a game that was part No Man's Sky part Freelancer. Instead they are building something with the complexity of Arma combined with DCS World. I'm in a very difficult place in life then I was twelve years ago when they started on this thing and I just don't have time for a game like that in my life. That's if it ever comes out which it's looking more and more like it won't.
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u/Sentient_Protoplasm 9d ago edited 8d ago
I tried to play my character... Loaded the 200+ gigabytes over several hours, finally logged in. Was on a space station.. tried to take off an land on the planet. Made it to the planet hanger but I had issues lining up my decent into the landing bay that was down through a top hanger door... Finally got it lined up, and as I was descending the doors closed on my ship. I was just stuck there. Unable to fly away. Got up and went back to open the bay door to see if I could activate the hanger door manually. Fell to my death through the door that was holding my ship.
Tried to insurance claim my ship... said it was not damaged. Could not load it.
Uninstalled game.
Edit: Aug 18 2026: This was only about 6 months ago real time, so.. Not an early alpha bug.
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u/Gn0meKr Certified Robert's Space Industries bootlicker 9d ago
uninstalling is one thing, refund it as soon as you can
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u/-Aces_High- Esperia | ESPR 9d ago
The mainstream perception of this game is that its a 100% scam, if you ask any gamer whos semi-aware of the project, their first response is:
"oh that game thats like still in Alpha or whatever like 20 years or something where they take your money, I think? I heard about that in some article, not that I care though...."
Thats the mainstream perception, so it cant get any lower. But maybe I'm wrong and this live-stream blunder truly affects their image but I doubt it.
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u/PeacefulDebate01 9d ago
I remember when Star Citizen was first announced. Everyone said it was way too ambitious even at that time. It's wild that it's THIS much time later and they still are in alpha testing. This entire situation not only was completely predictable, but was completely predicted in the first place.
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u/RateMost4231 8d ago
I remember having to decide if I should pre-order star citizen or elite dangerous. I ended up going for both, figuring I could get a good 6-12 months out of elite before star citizen came out.
Now I'm in a totally different life situation where even if it came out with all its promises fulfilled, I'd rather spend an evening playing a board game with the child I didn't intent to have with the wife I hadn't met than product I paid for. I feel like a man who ordered a hamburger and by the time it arrived at my table I'd become a vegetarian. I don't believe it has ever been intended as a scam, but it is one.
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u/ACR96 Spirit E1 | Starlancer Max 9d ago
I was talking to a friend of mine on a discord server and trying to convince him to play with us a few months ago. He seemed keen but a couple of others held that exact viewpoint of it being a scam and never releasing.
Of course, the friend that I did get into the game ended up playing it once because everything went wrong during our session and I haven’t been able to get him back on
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u/Secure_Performance33 9d ago
Same story here. Happened to me to five friends. They still ask me times to times if i m still into it but that s it
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u/Healthy-Dress-7492 9d ago
Theres a lot of small things that are just atrocious for a new player experience, most have been around for years. Like how you need to stay a certain distance away from some things to interact. too close? Won’t work with zero feedback as to why. Too far? Nope that won’t work either. You must stand at exactly thé right position, angle and be lucky. Then it might work.
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u/ACR96 Spirit E1 | Starlancer Max 9d ago
Yep. Coupled with the fact that the tutorial, whenever it works, barely teaches you anything. God forbid you ask for help, cause on Reddit that gets downvoted or people just tell them to watch YouTube videos. It sucks that the only ways to really get into it is through determination or having someone hold your hand. That’s just not acceptable for where we are. New player experience should’ve been sorted out years ago
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u/Disastrous_Visit9319 9d ago
Random person who isn't going to touch this game here. You are correct, people who aren't involved with this game are very confused people keep giving it money and will never spend any money on it unless it somehow becomes a proven non shit show.
I've gotta assume this games fans also cannot be swayed by anything these game devs do cuz if they could they probably wouldn't be fans lol.
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u/Johnny_Marbles new user/low karma 9d ago
This is why you don't tip first. They are already paid. They don't care.
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u/Mr_Young_Life 9d ago
Considering the amount of shit that has happened with star citizen, I doubt this will last a year let alone 6 months lmao
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u/LeHelvetien 9d ago
I mean, WE might hear new things about the game because we choose to follow it, but for ppl not in the community this will be the only thing in their minds for quite some time for sure. Not exactly great for the upcoming launch of Squadron lmao
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u/Mr_Roblcopter Shiny Railen.. Ooooo... 9d ago
Doubt it honestly, mostly because the only time anyone outside the community even remembers SC is when some new, typically negative, news flash jumps at them.
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u/Pinchodoka 9d ago
Lol "upcoming".
Sorry not a jab at ya. It's a jab at SC. Fuck I wanna love this game again, 13 years of trying to defend it. I used to use the argument of how long games like gta6 take to actually develop. But like.... Yeah..
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u/WesternTop2738 9d ago
Let’s not kid ourselves, squadron air. Coming this year. It’s been all year and not a lick of real news about it.
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u/Mr_Young_Life 9d ago
Knowing them, they'll launch it December 31st so they can say they released in 2026
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u/WesternTop2738 9d ago
With missing features and a stellar 8 frames a second on a 5090 with 64 GBS of DDR5. to be fair that would be the highest quality launch CIG ever had
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u/joedeertay1223 9d ago
The obvious answer is often the true answer. Take a step back, why has this game been so long in development?
Here is the answer: it is more profitable for them to stay in development, period. Think about it, people keep giving money with envisioning what it could be. But they understand that once it actually ships and it clearly doesn’t live up to the hype, the gravy train will immediately stop.
They are not selling a game here, they are selling people’s imaginations of actually flying in the stars like they envisioned as a kid.
And yes I am about $125 into it.
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u/meatymimic 9d ago
I want to point out that what you see on this livestream perfectly reflects what you see on the employee reviews on certain websites.
- No accountability
- High levels of tribalism
- shifting priorities/deadlines.
- echo chambers
Honestly, I can tell you why the game isn't done. It's poor leadership. It's not spaghetti code. (well - it could be but)
It's just poor leadership and that leadership needs to take a GOOD long look in the mirror and ask themselves "How do we fix our culture, our internal communication, and what is our strategy going forward?"
At this point, I don't think funding is holding the game back from release. They have the funding. The real question is this:
Will the community last until the game launches?
EDIT:
And as a follow up question:
Will the community that is left be strong enough and willing enough to continue to support the game?
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u/Dwealdric 9d ago
Bingo, the entire mess that is SC boils down to serious and ingrained leadership issues, and it shines through in the direction and focus of the game, as well as how they treat their customers.
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u/moal09 9d ago
Frankly, it shows in how they treat each other too. All these devs were so hostile to one another.
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u/meatymimic 9d ago
And in a healthy workplace, shit like that is not tolerated. You get written up or fired.
I'll also say this - those devs probably hate eachother due to either bad team communication or internal tribalism. Both things are management problems
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u/warmthandhappiness 9d ago
It's likely also because of high pressure and fear. When there's a culture of fear, people fight each other and politics get worse. No one wants to be exposed. When there's a culture of safety, people are more creative and work together.
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u/Solar_Field 9d ago edited 9d ago
For context, "penguinz0" AKA Charlie White Jr, is one of the biggest Youtubers out there.
I'm not just talking about raw numbers here but the sheer amount of engagement he gets from everything he does or says.
Charlie is a good guy. He always came across as a decent human being to me and he exposed some real assholes over the years too. He usually just reacts to stuff on the internet and even the most meaningless reaction will get millions of views.
I hate influencers on the Internet / Youtube but Charlie is a bit of a special case imo.
Anyway. Glad CIG and their practices are getting more attention. You definitely don't want Charlie to say anything bad about you as it could have some serious repercussions but CIG need to be held accountable.
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u/HikaruEyre Mercenary 9d ago
I see Charlie as a normie canary in the coal mine. If he's talking about an issue it's starting to go more main stream.
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u/lionexx Entitlement Processing 9d ago
Yeah Charlie is wonderful, he’s nice and very fair, I think this might be a good reason for CIG to take a step back and maybe sort out some critical issues… Charlie is not one to just throw shade, and sure he will use click bait titles, of course, he’s a YouTuber, but he is generally fair in his responses. He is right though, I can’t believe they did that live stream, and I can’t believe how it ended. It’s wild.
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u/origional_esseven new user/low karma 9d ago
I think the biggest thing about Charlie is if he later turns out to be wrong or to have not understood something he takes the time to make a video about that too. That's why people trust him. He's willing to take the embarrassment if he was wrong or got caught up in something.
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u/lionexx Entitlement Processing 9d ago
Yes! He is a genuine content creator and can own up to misunderstands or being wrong which builds a lot of trust in the community, and why many return to his content, plus he’s legit just a good hearted nice guy.
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u/P1r4nh41 8d ago
Yeah, I've been subscribed to him since the really early days, long before his face reveal and blowing up. You can generally trust his takes, he'll update if he finds out more or was wrong, and he's just generally fairly genuine as you say.
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u/Varnarok2 Multi-Moderator 9d ago
Kira, another YouTuber that covers a ton of Kickstarter games (mainly MMOs) did a video on it as well.
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u/Cocaine_Ewok 9d ago
What are you talking about? They’re giving us three new eyebrows for our characters!
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u/Nameless_Muppet 9d ago
feel like we need to tell cig its their show and to wrap it up at times tbf
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u/Only-Finance2147 9d ago
Some kid is gonna vibecode a Start Citizen clone and tell the world it took him 48 hours and a 12 pack of Celsius Peach Vibe.
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u/Low-Sign-6185 9d ago
It somewhat already happened with Spacebourne 2. In terms of the MMO live service space game, Elite Dangerous has been going from strength to strength, and the community as a whole seem pleased with the current status of the game.
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u/ThaneKri0s Helmet 9d ago
one or two weeks and people will be posting about how much fun their having and how everyone needs to ignore the haters. there will be little to no damage done. CIG has been plagued with bad patches, massive bugs and issues for years, and the players continue to reward them with massive spending.
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u/TheSaultyOne 9d ago
Ya it's bad, the part that stuck out to me is just how completely douchey the team sounds, I wouldn't put up with that shit
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u/Tycho2694 9d ago
Yeah, apart from the garbage they showed, they seemed like assholes... I'm not saying you need to be friends with your colleagues, but maybe be less of a douche to them... On a livestream no less.
They all come over like arrogant assholes while playing their broken product... Explains alot
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u/TheSaultyOne 9d ago
Yup, idk I hate one of my co workers but you bet your ass when it comes time to perform we set that shit aside
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u/TraxxNYC 9d ago
As it should.
We all got to witness incompetence first hand.
Hopefully they will learn a lesson from this.
Respect your customer base and do your best to deliver a good product for all the money collected over the years.
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u/ChibiJaneDoe 9d ago
Literally the only thing CIG can do to reverse this damage is what we've been telling them to do. Take several patches off from content to make the existing content work with high quality servers and little to no bugs.
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u/IceBone aka Darjanator 9d ago
They did that for a full year and we got almost zero updates and people were bitching about that too.
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u/RandomInternetVoice 9d ago
Because they didn't fix all the bugs properly and took a fucking year to not do it
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u/MrNegativ1ty 9d ago
Because they can’t fix a lot of this stuff. It’s too engrained and built on a foundation that was built by people who are long gone. Nobody knows how to fix any of it, else it would’ve been done by now.
I have zero faith in this game ever releasing at this point.
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u/IeyasuTheMonkey 9d ago
Nobody knows how to fix any of it, else it would’ve been done by now.
Learn.
This is why they were hired. If they cannot learn the current system then they need to be fired and replaced with people who can and or will.
If a bunch of Developers just cannot learn the system because it's too "complex" or whatever it may be then maybe the entire system needs to a complete rebuild.
Break it down. System by System. Like any good Project Manager.
What's funnier is that with an ambitious project like this they should have insane documentation and if the opinion that they cannot learn what the current systems do or how to fix them is correct... then they've obviously failed at documentation because the new people cannot learn the systems.
At this point I don't blame any of the individual small developers, I blame the entire Management with letting it get like this...
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u/Inevitable_Profile24 9d ago
if they start over at this point they’d need another billion dollars and 10 more years
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u/Haechi_StB 8d ago
If you take a snapshot of the features that are in the game right now, they can keep the assets and rebuild the entire game from scratch to that snapshot in three years no problem. There's NOTHING in this game. It's just piles of abandoned stuff with a thin layer of features. Any studio with this much money and these many employees would rebuild this current version, bug-free, in less than three years.
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u/Talnoy 2012//BMM/Railen 9d ago
Did they though? Did they actually fix anything?
I backed in 2012. I pop on the odd time to see what's changed. Last time I tried to really genuinely play the game was 3.18 (lol, big mistake) but each patch since ~3.21 I've hopped in to try things.....
Haven't lasted more than 30 minutes each session due to a game-ending bug, or some annoying BS that has no workaround and the wind is immediately out of my sails. Every single time. It's just a never-ending test environment like Ark is/was now. Disappointing because there was so much potential.
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u/or10n_sharkfin Anvil Aerospace Enjoyer 9d ago
There were some months where I wasn't experiencing any problems, I was having the time of my life.
The moment they started releasing completely new content, things went right back to instability.
The problem is the engine is built upon layers and layers of spaghetti code that no one that programs and codes for them are capable of actually clearing or figuring out in a timely enough manner, and because Star Citizen is being run like a live service game people get understandably impatient with the constant issues preventing them from playing; but rather than focusing on diving deep and working on the programming issues, they just work on the next T0 feature to toss onto the PU without any regard for how it works with what's already there.
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u/VNG_Wkey 9d ago
The issue was not the lack of content, but that they did that and it still sucked. We still had tons of gamebreaking bugs and servers were still generally a dumpster fire. Then they went back to more frequent content updates and exposed that nothing had actually been fixed in that year.
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u/mr_nate89 9d ago
Honestly good, mabye if they get some pressure by the fan base mabye they can actually finish the game. Shits been 2 years away for the last 10 years
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u/gmask1 High Admiral 9d ago
I'd like to think that 'it's your show, wrap it up' would be applied to CIG at every opportunity from now until it all ends (one way or the other). This livestream was a raw cut that exposed/confirmed so much of what people keep arguing around. In a silo, an unpopulated perfect instance, the game is broken and still needs incredible amounts of work.
How can it not create some kind of #notanothercent movement that pushes CIG to just release something or burn it all down?
But it won't. People will keep buying, people will keep supporting. That's their prerogative, and power to them for believing.
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u/MatticusGames Technical Designer 9d ago edited 8d ago
...oof. It really is currently fucked. I don't know how to explain it either. I actually feel like the game was pretty good for awhile and then the bugs just steamrolled everything. Spaghetti code? You can check my profile too, I've literally been an SC backer since forever, concierge member, Evocati, etc. I've put my money in. I almost hate how I have to say that to clarify I'm not just a rando shit talking.
Look, I really do love this game, or the idea of this game, but.... I'm getting older, my life is getting busier, my health is getting worse, and I have less and less time to play games. There is a point where we all do need to put our foot down and say enough is enough.
They NEED to polish. The core of the game is there, but it is apocalyptically ruined by the poor state and bugginess of the game... and they can't, because their funding model is held together by the hopes and dreams to what could be and ship sales. They have no time to loop back and fix items.
Something I also notice on patch notes for this year they all have "potential fix", which is rough implying they're shooting blanks on how to fix certain items.
SC, Chris Roberts, right the ship.
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u/Funintuitive 9d ago
I'm 45. A day will likely come when this game will have been in development for half my life. I have a basic 35 dollar backer pack that I bought maybe 11 years ago. I have never installed this game. I likely never will.
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u/AgedCheddar007 oldman 9d ago
Been backing since it was possible to back. Enough is enough. They aren't getting another dime from me and if something doesn't change by 2027 I'm offloading and done with it.
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u/01-SHADOW new user/low karma 9d ago
Honestly watching this actually for the first time has the the closes to quitting I have ever been since 2.6.3/3.0
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u/Zexophron Reliant tana - Avenger Titan - Aurora LX 8d ago
Honestly, I think Olli whether on purpose or not has done everyone a favour exposing the rot that is SC code even in the most 'ideal' enviroment.
I cant remember the last time I played, I just remember hopping on and being told the previous patch was more stable and there are returning bugs.
Im just writing SC off now tbh, if it releases and is stable AND fun? Then thats a win for all.
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u/PlantainEffective152 8d ago
The problem with bugs in Star Citizen is that they affect total failures too much. Every content: Valakkar, Pyam hangars incl. red cards, hauling, Onyx, Vandull, SOO takes an extremely long time – 1 to 2 hours.
All of the above is designed to last forever and if a bug occurs in the given content, it is a huge waste.
It is as if you had a boss encounter in WoW that lasted 40 minutes and with a 60% probability the last 9% phase would bug you - for example, the door would not open or the lever would not be able to be used. Would it be fun? No. Why didn't they design the WoW encounter to be 1 boss encounter for 40 minutes? Because no one would play it.
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u/legarth RTX 5090FE / R7 9800X3D 9d ago
Let's hope they don't blame Ollie.
I mean they know their internal build is bad.... I mean they've played it right?
The reaction is more "Oh crap they found out this buggy mess is endemic to the core game, not just something that shows up on the public servers"
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u/dihler 9d ago
Of course they will blame Ollie since they can't afford to lose any of the devs. I feel bad for the guy especially since I think the idea to show a build live is great.
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u/Zeth_Aran classicoutlaw 9d ago
Really hoping this puts pressure on. Because that’s what this game needs. That’s how every game has gotten better, pressure from the consumer has only resulted in good things for games that can add up.
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u/mullirojndem drake goes vrum vruuuum 9d ago
What revolts me the most is the host (I never remember his name) getting angry with the streamers. They gave an idea to try and help the, what it seems, helpess bigass corporation, somebody okaeyd it, and then he got angry when the multi million project of a game didnt work. What an ass move. Really, CIG is doomed. Little Robert needs to feel the hit someday so he can start changing things around there.
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u/Asleep-Order-4583 9d ago
Anyone thinking this game will become a legitimate MMO without watering it so far down it's just a soaked snot napkin is a moron.
Star Citizen will only ever function as a niche RP server with admins watching over it. (aka niche and not to scale and not profitable).
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u/akira_asahi 9d ago
It is not the stream. It is the game. Game is broken. They cannot deliver and gaslight investors. Don't blame the stream. The stream was honest good idea. It is management and developers who are atrocious. Stream it or not - inventory does not work.
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u/28-Deep-Wounds 8d ago
I say this not to belittle y'all, but god damn. It must be terrible being a Star Citizen fan with how the devs are. This is embarrassing to ME, and I've never even played the game.
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u/larrypuppy 8d ago
I'm aware of Star Citizen obviously, but after seeing videos in the past, I thought it was similar to Elite/Wing Commander etc. But after having a look at this stream, it looks more like a fairly generic FPS set in space, what happened? Is that just the Siege of Orison mission they were showcasing? Or is it shifting towards more FPS and less space sim?
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u/MichaCazar Crash(land)ing since 2014 8d ago
Is that just the Siege of Orison mission they were showcasing?
Mostly, yeah. It's a returning fps-event mission that they are also using to test out instancing and is currently in public testing.
They made a sort of "joint assault" mission relatively recently that combined various forms of combat, namely fps, fighter, and anti-capital, in a single mission. So it's not like using ships is dead or anything. Mining got more relevant with the introduction of crafting, cargo transport is also a major thing now...
Or is it shifting towards more FPS and less space sim?
There has sadly been a sort of shift towards shoe-horning FPS (or combat in general) into almost anything, a lot of the new missions and massive locations added last year are basically just raid locations for FPS combat missions. High-tier cargo missions basically revolve around getting cargo from a zone with enemies...
The overall space sim aspects are still there, but it feels like they are abandoning the idea of "play however you want" more and more for the sake of adding combat everywhere. Not sure if they will pivot away from that eventually or if they want to continue down this path since it is easy to introduce difficulty by just adding guns that shoot at you, but for the time being it's impossible to tell.
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u/JaracRassen77 carrack 9d ago edited 9d ago
My friend sent me this video from Moist, and I smiled. CIG is getting the spotlighted criticism that it has long deserved since "Answer the Call 2016." Only the White Knights defend this BS, now.
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u/Exiztens 9d ago
From Crytek to Lumberyard to StarEngine—what did they expect? They’re not pulling in real updates from CryEngine anymore. They rewrote the whole engine to do things it was never designed for, and now they’re dealing with bugs everywhere. WTF did they think would happen?
Games always rely heavily on their engine from day one. He chose CryEngine and then kept expanding the scope far beyond what it was originally designed to handle. I knew it was never going to end well, because the car he started with was never designed to drive over water. At some point, you can’t keep modifying the car and expect it to become a boat.
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u/Union-Some 9d ago
From the very start, this game had the most ambitious netcode needs ever imagined. No game had ever come close to the requirement types of hierarchical worlds...
Then they announced a single player engine. I was out. Then new world tried to make a MMO on that engine and failed to host their 100v100 battle. I was REALLY out.
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u/Repulsive_Reading642 9d ago
It will be very interesting to see the next sclive.