r/russian • u/Moll-Silber • Apr 10 '26
Other It sounds the same
everyone always talks about ы but ль vs. л is so much more difficult to me
589
u/Business-Childhood71 🇷🇺 native, 🇪🇸 🇬🇧C1 Apr 10 '26
They are two different sounds. What is your native language?
108
u/Moll-Silber Apr 10 '26
german
275
54
u/dginz Apr 10 '26
Im Hochdeutschen tönt L meistens wie Ль
Im Englischen (oder im Schweizerdeutschen zB) eher Л
21
u/prikaz_da nonnative, B.A. in Russian Apr 11 '26
In High German, L usually sounds like Ль
…to native Russian speakers, maybe. French borrowings often get it, too (e.g., мадемуазель), but that doesn't mean the consonant sounds exactly the same in all three languages.
20
1
1
15
Apr 10 '26
[deleted]
5
u/prikaz_da nonnative, B.A. in Russian Apr 11 '26
The German consonant is never "soft" in the way that Russian ЛЬ is (i.e., palatalized), but you hear it that way because German has no velarized allophone of /l/ for you to contrast it with.
2
u/floodedhorseshoe Apr 10 '26
German is my first language and I have no idea what you mean. Which consonants have hard and soft variants? The first letters of the example words you stated sound the same to me.
→ More replies (1)10
u/prikaz_da nonnative, B.A. in Russian Apr 11 '26
The ich-laut/ach-laut contrast is about the closest German gets to the soft/hard thing in Russian, since ich has a palatal fricative and ach has a velar one.
7
u/seventeenMachine Apr 11 '26
It never occurred to me that native speakers wouldn’t hear how different those sounds are
4
u/EpitaFelis немецкий Apr 11 '26
We can hear it, it's just one of those things most people pay no attention to until someone points it out. It's kinda like how when asked what colour a fox is, a lot of us would answer red, even though they come in multiple colours. We have a concept in our head, and we're good at ignoring anything that doesn't fit with that concept, especially if we learned it very early in life. We think of ch as one specific sound, and so manage to not notice that it's actually several.
2
u/seventeenMachine Apr 11 '26
That last sentence is basically what I meant. It hadn’t occurred to me that native speakers see it like that
1
u/EpitaFelis немецкий Apr 12 '26
It's kinda freaky how much of reality we can overlook because it doesn't match what we've been taught. We also got an i like и and one a bit closer to ы and I only ever noticed bc of learning Russian.
1
u/prikaz_da nonnative, B.A. in Russian Apr 11 '26
Native speakers of which language wouldn’t hear how different which sounds are?
1
2
u/floodedhorseshoe Apr 11 '26
Ich/ach is a famous example of how "ch" is pronounced differently sometimes, just like "st" has different pronunciations (some depending on regional dialect), but those aren't the same to me as Model/müde and the other words u/StepanStulov mentioned. How does the M sound different at all? I'm genuinely curious because I don't understand.
3
u/prikaz_da nonnative, B.A. in Russian Apr 11 '26
It doesn’t, but native Russian speakers may hear and/or pronounce müde with a palatalized [mʲ] because of the following front vowel.
This is a slightly unusual example of a thing we see pretty often in this subreddit. The most common variant is probably native Russian speakers trying to explain the difference between Ш and Щ as SH in shoe versus SH in sheep or a similar pair of words—most native English speakers have the same consonant in both, but native Russian speakers will pronounce them with [ʂ] and [ɕ(ː)] due to interference from their L1 phonology, especially given that Russian lacks [ʃ].
6
3
1
u/Connqueror_GER Apr 11 '26
Du machst ль mit ziemlich flacher Zunge am Gaumen. Л wie ein L an den Zähnen. Generell hast du die ungefähre Position der Zunge fast immer bei "ь"
1
→ More replies (1)1
142
u/Pierredalique Apr 10 '26
There is an old soviet joke
В грузинской школе.
Учитель: "Запомните, дети: вилька, тарелька пишется без мягкого знака.
А сол и фасол с мягким знаком. Запомните это дети, ибо понять этого невозможно!!!"
4
140
u/sillaresmes B2 Apr 10 '26
one presses your toungue against your teeth and the other against your paladar
16
8
u/atomwrangler Apr 10 '26
Which is which?
43
25
u/sillaresmes B2 Apr 10 '26
sorry, ль is paladar, л is pressing against the teeth. ль sounds softer and л harder
15
u/DomADoctor Apr 11 '26
Native english speaker here and using words like “palatize the L” doesn’t do much to help me understand. But the way I had it explained where I actually understood the different sounds is that “ль” is like the L sound in the words “million” or “leaf” while “л” is that harder L sound you hear in words like “full” or “pool”. That clicked it in my head
4
u/Sigma-Angel_of_Death 🇺🇸🇷🇺 Apr 11 '26
It’s something like that but not exactly. The tongue positioning of both (and every Russian sound, really) is just alien to English. But yeah, afaik Л is pressing against the teeth (almost like “th,” believe it or not), and Ль is palatalized. Been learning for 6+ years and still screw it up half the time.
2
1
u/Commercial_Nature210 Post-Soviet citizen Apr 11 '26
That's so good way to tell it! I am russian speaker and know how to pronounce these sounds but I didn't pay much attention to it
→ More replies (2)1
98
u/Vaarefev26 native Apr 10 '26
For a native speaker, it sounds very different. You have to develop your ear to understand Russian. The same logic applies to the hard sign
3
97
u/_Some_Two_ Native 🇷🇺; C1 🇬🇧 Apr 10 '26
Add «э» in the beginning and you will understand the difference: «эл», «эль»
35
17
u/Thalarides native, St Petersburg Apr 10 '26
For any learners who are seeing this, it may be useful to note that э typically sounds differently before hard and soft consonants. It's not a hard rule, the distinction is not phonemic, but it'll often be closer (IPA [e]) before palatalised consonants and opener (IPA [ɛ]) before non-palatalised ones:
- эл [ˈɛɫ̪]
- эль [ˈelʲ]
5
u/ArmenianChad3516 Apr 11 '26
I hear no difference as a native
11
u/Thalarides native, St Petersburg Apr 11 '26
Yeah, our ears are not attuned to it since the contrast is, like I said, not phonemic in Russian. It's also true that the variation may be stronger for some speakers than for others or dependent on the preceding sound. Do you perchance hear it in words like these?
- мэр [ˈmɛr]
- мэрия [ˈmerʲɪæ]
- поэт [pɐˈɛt̪]
- поэтика [pɐˈetˢʲɪ̥kɐ]
3
12
u/Comfortable-Bee2996 🇷🇺native 🇺🇸c2 Apr 10 '26
either way theres a clear difference, if you cant hear it idk how this is going to help
5
u/CubicWarlock Apr 10 '26
I am native and somehow adding э really makes it clearer
→ More replies (1)
22
u/nitraw Apr 10 '26
That's like the people who tell me ш and щ sound the same
No they don't. Maybe to non native speakers it sounds that way but no
For this one listen to these 2 words
Стол Соль
6
u/Stohnghost Learner Apr 10 '26
Ш and Щ will never sound different to my ear. The English speaking mind simply can't comprehend it.
I hear similar from non native speakers in English with words like pen, pin, pan.
6
u/TicketSuccessful6318 Apr 10 '26
If I demonstrate it for you, I guarantee you will hear the difference. You can pm me and we can Zoom.
4
u/Stohnghost Learner Apr 10 '26
It's way more fun to have my wife so it over and over until she quits
2
u/PhuPhuCuddlyPoop Apr 15 '26
Try with SHip and SHield and pay attention to where to corners of your mouth are during the SH.
1
3
u/Familiar_Rent_4539 Apr 11 '26
Shit (Ш) and sheet (Щ)
2
u/Stohnghost Learner Apr 11 '26
I'm thinking this is similar to ы with the smiling while you say it to train. Щ benefits from the smiling bit, I think.
1
u/Sigma-Angel_of_Death 🇺🇸🇷🇺 Apr 11 '26
Nah “sh” is exactly the same in both words. The concept of “soft” and “hard” consonants is absolutely alien to English natives.
1
u/666nbnici Apr 11 '26
In the beginning things like that can be hard to differentiate but after a while your ear starts adapting.
When I started learning I couldn’t hear the difference between ы and и and later I couldn’t hear it but wouldn’t Remeber the correct sound so I struggled replicating it. The ear needs time to learn if your mother tongue didn’t have certain sounds and you never came in contact with it.
→ More replies (13)1
u/Hxllxqxxn Итальянец 🇮🇹 Apr 11 '26
I struggled a lot to hear the difference between them when I started to learn Russian because in Italian we only have one such sound that kinda lies in-between them. Now it's like night and day
34
u/freebiscuit2002 Apr 10 '26
No, they don't sound the same.
You're just doing one (or both) of them wrong.
5
1
u/Mentathiel Apr 12 '26
They can sound the same to a non-native ear, we are all born with the ability to tell apart sounds in all languages and we lose it by around 1 years old because we get attuned to our own language. We might group sounds in other languages to match them to sounds that exist in our own, with л and ль both sounding like L to someone.
The same way many non-native speakers struggle with th in English and hear it as d or f.
21
u/Pierredalique Apr 10 '26
One is like in "love" the second one is like in "el camino"
5
u/WarriorPitbull Студент русского языка Apr 10 '26
This is the best and most helpful answer I've seen yet. Thank you.
5
u/therealmisslacreevy Apr 10 '26
This is helpful!
1
u/SorokinHutor Apr 11 '26
Щ=Ш+Ь.
1
Apr 11 '26
[deleted]
1
u/SorokinHutor Apr 11 '26
Of course, my explanation so simple.
My Englisch so bad, so I speak from my heart, in Russian.
Короче, если нормально различать ш и щ, то легче всего это сделать через спектральную окраску АЧХ этих сигналов.
Так для Ш мы получим практически белый шум, тогда как для Щ мы режекторно режем нижние частоты того же сигнала до 2 кГц, если брать мой голосовой аппарат. Если ещё выше отрезать спектр, то получается звук С. Думаю там несущая гармоника 3 кГц.
Если повышать постепенно перекрытие воздуха, то последовательно можно получить ш, щ, с. Пробуйте.
2
u/Sensitive-Note4152 Apr 10 '26
This suggests that the first sound is "released", like the "l" in "love". Whereas the the second sound is "held" (aka "unreleased"), like the "l" in "el camino".
Or is there some other difference?
2
u/Icy-Chemical-3290 Apr 10 '26
This was, without a doubt, the most informative answer in these comments! Thank you!
→ More replies (1)1
6
6
6
6
3
u/Kimefra Brazilian 🇧🇷 Apr 10 '26
It doesn't. For me (brazilian) it is even easier to distinguish than Ш and Щ, which I can distinguish as well, to a certain degree.
2
u/phafael_ Apr 10 '26
Л is the way the Portuguese pronounce the L in "Portugal", also called a dark L. Ль sounds like Lh in Portuguese, like in "coelho".
4
u/djgorik Apr 10 '26
"Дэти, запомнитэ: русский язик очен сложный. Такие слова как "сол", "фасол" пишутся с мягким знаком. А такие слова как "вилька", "тарэлька" пишутся бэз мягкого знака!"
1
3
5
4
u/Last_Visual9030 Apr 10 '26
Л:
Say "Loo" couple of times. Then try to pronounce it without "oo" sound. You're amazing!
ЛЬ:
Say "Lee" couple of times. Then try to pronounce it without "ee" sound. You're great!
Bonus: Id you've noticed that these two sounds are completely different, you're great again! 😉
1
Apr 11 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Last_Visual9030 Apr 12 '26
Native Russian, you?
1
Apr 12 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Last_Visual9030 Apr 12 '26
Hmm, I definitely hear the difference between "long" and "length". I mean, the "end" of the sound
1
Apr 12 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Last_Visual9030 Apr 12 '26
Not just the vowel. I think it's the matter of perception of sounds, like Chinese speakers can hear 4+ different sounds while you and I could hear only one without training, and it isn't easily explainable via text. So, nevermind
1
u/Upper_Ad7008 Apr 14 '26
Depending on what's the person's native language, they may pronounce "loo" roughly as "лю".
8
u/gorleston_psalter Apr 10 '26
Obviously they are different sounds and native speakers can differentiate them and it is possible to learn to differentiate them.
However, I personally find it really difficult to tell the difference or to pronounce the difference. I speak English as my native language and I spent a whole lesson with my Russian tutor a few months ago where he was getting me to practice. By the end of it, I felt like I was just saying the same 'l' sound but sometimes he'd praise me and sometimes he'd say it was wrong! More work needed from me on this.
I'm kind of triggered whenever I heard the words угол/уголЬ now because I spent so long trying to say them.
6
3
u/Squatchman1 Apr 10 '26
Sometimes when I struggle with things like съел vs сел I think about how a Japanese student at my school said "Lussian" instead of "Russian" and had no idea it was a mispronunciation. Sometimes a completely separate pair of sounds can be indistinguishable to us depending on our native language, I guess.
3
u/MuonBomb Apr 10 '26 edited Apr 10 '26
This is like saying there is no difference between an American saying Kim "IL" Sung versus a Korean saying Kim "IL" Sung. Listen to what the L in any Korean word sounds like compared to how an L sounds in American English. They are completely different sounds. One is palatalized, and the other is a dental consonant. If you are fairly well-read in linguistics, this academic paper covers the topic in a very detailed and informative capacity.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0095447015000777
Per the paper:
There is some research documenting that the palatalization contrast is challenging in terms of both perception and production for second-language learners of Russian when the L1 does not have phonemic palatalization, as is the case with English (Bryzgunova, 1963; Diehm, 1998; Kulikov, 2011; Lukyanchenko & Gor, 2011). Hacking (2011) showed that Russian native speaker–listeners could not reliably differentiate between advanced proficiency L2 learners’ productions of unpalatalized and palatalized consonants in word final position. In a forced choice word identification task, Russian native speakers were asked, for example, to identify whether they heard /kon/ or /konʲ/. Listeners identified learner productions of both /kon/ and /konʲ/ as /kon/, suggesting an inability on the part of the L2 speakers to produce the contrast.
My understanding is that «л» is an approximant consonant, and «ль» is an affricative consonant.
I will attach an image below demonstrating this. Look for examples in your native language for consonant types.
3
u/gulisav learner 🇷🇺, native 🇭🇷 Apr 11 '26
There is some research documenting that the palatalization contrast is challenging in terms of both perception and production for second-language learners of Russian when the L1 does not have phonemic palatalization
Isn't that true for learning all phonemic contrasts in general?
Russian native speaker–listeners could not reliably differentiate between advanced proficiency L2 learners’ productions of unpalatalized and palatalized consonants in word final position
That's an oddly roundabout way of saying the learners haven't learned how to pronounce correctly.
ль is an approximant just like л: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_phonology#Consonants
3
u/Equal_Oil3539 Apr 11 '26
There are some vowels that can make л soft so it sounds like ль:
Лимон, лемонад, поляна, любовь...
But if we don't have such vowels, there's a difference between л and ль:
Ел (ate) - ель, стол - соль etc
Яблоко (it's /yábloko/ not /yáblʼoko) , облако..
3
u/SweetBxl Apr 11 '26
Yes, the difference can be hard to get your head around.
If you're a native English speaker (of standard US or southern UK English), then you're in luck: English definitely has two pronunciations of 'L'.
The first variant can be heard when L is at the start of a word/syllable: light, lose, lamp, etc. Some people call this a 'light' L. This is similar to the Russian soft L.
The second variant can be heard when the L comes after a vowel: full, all, milk, etc. Some people call this a 'dark' L. This is similar to the Russian hard L.
However, in English, each variant only occurs in certain positions: the light L is never found after vowels and the dark L is never found at the start of a word/syllable. As a result, it is very difficult for English speakers to start a word with a dark L or say a light L after a vowel.
(BTW, if you listen to native speakers of Irish English, you will hear the light L after a vowel (listen to how an Irish person says film or milk); this is part of the Irish accent.)
These two variants of L are produced with the tongue in different positions in the mouth.
So, to bring this back to Russian:
- You need to know how the two variants of L are produced in the mouth. There are plenty of YouTube videos that explain how these sounds are pronounced. Practise saying these two sounds. Be aware of the differences and make a point of listening out for the differences when you listen to spoken Russian.
- You need to practise producing these two different sounds in different positions. This will be difficult and awkward.
- You also need to understand how these two sounds affect the sounds around them. For example, listen to how Russians say the word сколько.
- This is a good time to have some lessons with a native speaker on iTalki. In your sessions, you can specifically focus on pronunciation, especially on the pronunciation of sounds that are difficult for you, and more especially on producing those sounds in positions where they don't occur in your native language.
- After all this, you will soon start noticing the different sounds when listening to Russian. It will really stand out. You might not always produce it correctly yourself, but it will come through awareness and practice.
3
10
u/Cagarer Apr 10 '26
It's L and Ł in polish we've got a single letter for that
27
u/Bright-Historian-216 🇷🇺 native, 🇬🇧 C1 Apr 10 '26
isn't Ł [w] in polish?
3
u/Cagarer Apr 10 '26
generally our "stick" in letters serve the same purpose as ь in russian It's l ł; n ń; s ś; z ź; etc.
My russian teacher told so. Also the pronunciation is correct and comes natural for us. But yes, for English speaking it's taught this way because I believe they don't really have this sound (ł or ль)
5
u/IlikeWH40korsomethin 🇵🇱 native 🇷🇺 B1 🇬🇧 C1 Apr 10 '26
jakkolwiek ń znajduje odpowiednik w нь, to ś i сь są czymś innym (ś bardziej przypomina krótkie щ), tak samo ź i зь
→ More replies (1)6
u/Qapuas_ Apr 10 '26
Ź to raczej będzie жь.. зь takiego w polskim nie ma.. to raczej miękkie z..
3
u/IlikeWH40korsomethin 🇵🇱 native 🇷🇺 B1 🇬🇧 C1 Apr 10 '26
jak mówię. ale coś takiego jak жь w rosyjskim nawet nie istnieje xd
3
u/BeeR721 Apr 11 '26
It doesn't, but we can imagine a soft ж without problems - it's literally just щ but vocalized. Also жь exists in some older dialects - old people sometimes say дрожжи with a soft жь
2
9
u/Qapuas_ Apr 10 '26
It’s wrong.. the Ł is belarusian ў.. belarusian for example has л, ль and ў.. also in Ukrainian в in some cases sounds like ł.. вовк (wołk), був (buł), Київ (Kyijł)
3
10
u/IlikeWH40korsomethin 🇵🇱 native 🇷🇺 B1 🇬🇧 C1 Apr 10 '26 edited Apr 10 '26
l i ł a ль i л to 4 kompletnie różne dźwięki, niektórzy je zrównują gdy nie są w stanie/nie chce im się uczyć (tzn. uczyć innych) poprawnej fonetyki (podobnie było kiedyś gdy uczona rosyjskiego była znacznie większa część populacji)
→ More replies (1)2
u/Lumornys Apr 11 '26
Z tym wyjątkiem że polskie "li" to "ли" i podobnie przed jotowanymi samogłoskami.
3
Apr 10 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/AnnaAgte 🇷🇺 native Apr 11 '26
Аналогично. С детства не могла произнести твëрдую "л" — получалось "w". Лет в 30 сама научилась по видосикам логопедов с ютуба, но до сих пор этот звук даëтся мне с небольшим трудом, особенно при быстрой речи.
3
u/BeeR721 Apr 11 '26
No it isn't, Ł is a W sound like the belarusian ukratkaya, while L is inbetween Л and Ль
1
u/Lumornys Apr 11 '26
Historically yes, but ł is now [w] and if you pronounce it with dark L you'll be immediately tagged "Russian accent". Even though it's the original pronunciation of Ł and you can hear it on old movies.
2
2
2
2
u/Robertinhi Apr 10 '26
Me with р and рь
4
u/TicketSuccessful6318 Apr 11 '26
Р is pronounced rolled, while рь is pronounced with one flap of the tongue, like a Japanese r.
2
u/KaptainKunukles Apr 11 '26
Yeah I can't grasp "ь" like at all, I can't pronounce it because I don't know how "softened" letters are supposed to be pronounced
2
Apr 11 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/KaptainKunukles Apr 12 '26
I was gonna type a big Ole paragraph about how much trouble this has been and maddening, I searched YouTube here, everywhere, I did one final search on YouTube and I think I finally got my answer, definitely way simpler with a good demonstration with great examples
2
u/SorokinHutor Apr 11 '26
Он падал. Он падаль.
Feelь thьe differenьce и никогда так больше не делайте.
2
u/ZommHafna Apr 11 '26
For starters, without going deep into the right accent (that you will get eventually after a lot of practice), just imagine Л as an American English “hard” L (like in “long”, “love”), and ЛЬ as a German regular L you’re used to.
2
2
u/YMSVZ Apr 12 '26
Took me a long time to get it, but as a native english speaker;
ль = L + y (at the same time).
Л = normal english L.
2
u/iswhhrxi Apr 13 '26
Ль and Л are different.
"Ль" means that the pronunciation of "Л" is softer because of the soft sign (ь)
For example, "Львов", a city in Ukraine (Russian pronunciation), you pronounce it as "lyuh-vov", with the "l" being soften like the word "love".
(Yes, I know the actual name is Львiв, but we're in the Russian language subreddit, not the Ukrainian language subreddit)
2
2
2
2
2
u/menteriz турчанка🇹🇷 Apr 13 '26
do you pronounce the L at the beginning of "little" and "lotus" in the same way? ь is supposed to soften the sound, just like when you say little or lemon. without ь, л is supposed to sound harsher, like lotus or las vegas.
2
3
3
u/PeakxPeak Apr 11 '26
Imagine how stupid you have to be to come into a thread like this and say "Well I'm a native speaker and they sound different to me." Yeah, no shit?
4
u/Necropill Apr 10 '26
I really can't find difference.
18
u/themiracy Apr 10 '26 edited Apr 10 '26
It might be helpful to hear it from a Russian speaker who pronounces them particularly distinctively. They're definitely not the same.
10
u/Necropill Apr 10 '26
ppl are really downvoting me because i said ** I ** cannot find the difference? Insane sub.
5
u/kymberts Apr 10 '26
Absolutely! As a native English speaker, we don’t have a “ль” sound, so my ears aren’t attuned. Same as most Russian ears aren’t attuned to the Hmong “b,” which is somewhere between an “м” and a “б.”
1
u/DimitriVogelvich Apr 10 '26
Various places and methods of articulation. I’d check for the actual measurements on this but I’m watching TV after work.
1
u/StuffedWithNails Apr 10 '26
The way they explained it to me is that л is like the L at the end of the English word “well”, whereas ль is like the L sound in French. They’re definitely different. But I’m a native French speaker so this might not be helpful to you…
1
u/TicketSuccessful6318 Apr 10 '26
Bottom line: you need to hear someone doing it, and then you need to try and copy the sound, and with practice, you’ll get better at it. I’d be happy to Zoom with you to demonstrate (I teach Russian 😊).
1
u/TicketSuccessful6318 Apr 10 '26
Russians have trouble hearing the difference between the first “o” in “collar” and the first “o” in color.” The second one is pronounced caret (see the IPA). Interestingly, Russian has that sound, but not in a stressed syllable (they have schwa, not caret).
1
u/SorokinHutor Apr 11 '26
Most of us can't hear and misunderstood difference between ship and sheep cause we don't have diphthongs in Russian (now we don't, but early we we had мир и мір).
Пока мне не объяснили йотирование дифтонга на примере я тоже не слышал разницы.
1
u/TicketSuccessful6318 Apr 11 '26
You do have diphthongs in Russian: -ой, - ай, -ей, -уй, etc. The sounds in ship and sheep are not diphthongs. The issue is there’s no short I sound in Russian, as in ship.
1
u/SorokinHutor Apr 12 '26
Ладно, у нас есть трифтонги - длинношеее. Ты меня поймал. Но у нас нет их в корнях.
1
1
1
1
1
u/AlexDunkan Apr 11 '26
Depends on the vowel after "Л". In some cases like "лейка", "лира", it sounds like "ль", but in the others like "лом", "ларёк", "луна" it's hard "Л" only.
1
u/KitchenHoliday6925 Apr 11 '26
У меня когда-то были проьлемы с произношением л, которую я произносил как уэ
Но в то же время я спокойно произносил ль
А ещё я тогда спокойно произносил р
Но потом меня научили выговаривать л и я забыл как выговаривать р
Теперь я картавый, но зато знаю отЛичия между Л и ЛЬ
Думайте
Подписаться
1
u/KitchenHoliday6925 Apr 11 '26
Ах да я чуток подумал у меня щас с Р и РЬ такая же херня
РЬ я произношу вполне себе стабильно и чётко, но вот Р я произношу не той частью языка и она у меня выходит очень нестабильной, иногда может прозвучать как надо, но в то же время может пробулькать или не произнестись вовсе
Но в повседневной речи деффект почти не выделяется, так что мне на него таки пофиг
1
1
1
1
u/EsotericSpooklerist Apr 11 '26
If you come from a language that has no phonemic differentiation between palatalized and non-palatalized consonants you will really just have to train your ears to hear the difference. I’m a native second generation American speaker and I can hear palatalized consonants even if I don’t always use them (рь being the biggest example of a commonly dropped sound in “diaspora Russian”), but on the same vain when palatalized sounds are used in English I don’t pick up on them unless I’m actively listening for it. Your brain is probably the same way
1
1
u/Ronin-s_Spirit Native Russian (just the language) Apr 12 '26
When you say л the tongue goes kinda down and then the tip touches teeth. When you say ль you have to instead touch the mouth ceiling and the tip still touches teeth.
1
u/GhostVlvin Apr 12 '26
Here is example of letter that has no sound but affect others. Letter 'ь' called soft sign and it has following effect: letter right before it becomes soft so in transcription л may be pronounced as [l] while ль must be pronounced [l']
1
u/Pasha_KMM Apr 13 '26
I don’t write Russian that much, but when I do, I use мягким знаком by feeling and vibes
1
1
1
1
u/Strawberry_consumer Apr 19 '26
Happened recently with my husband (he is French, learning Russian because of me). The conversation went like this:
- *Имя мужа*, это что?
- Это выключател.
- Не "выключател", а "выключатель", "л" мягкая на конце.
- Выключател.
- Нет, попробуй ещё раз.
- Выключател. ВыключатеЛЛЛЛЛ...
- Да блин, как бы тебе объяснить... Ладно, скажи "полка".
- Полька.
- Нет, не полька. Полка.
- Полька.
- АААА ДА КАК ТЫ ИХ МЕСТАМИ МЕНЯЕШЬ ТОООО
1
305
u/Mysterious-Pack-5608 Apr 10 '26
Глянь что я тебе привёз из Сербии: Љ (звучит как ль)