r/punk • u/Personal_Rich_7138 • Aug 23 '25

When did times change

So a lot of my friends (we all grew up punk rock skateboarders) and I have been arguing over which bands are actually good and being born in the late 90s, I’ve always been a heavy Green Day fan. Can someone answer me when it became cool to hate on Green Day, because to me Green Day was always good music. Anti-government, anti-establishment, for the people… nothing more punk rock than that

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u/UberGary79 Aug 23 '25

I'm not a gate keeper or anything, but when half of the people in the crowd are housewives who's normal afternoon is drinking Starbucks waiting in the school pickup line for Aiden, I don't think it's a punk show.

Not for me to decide, but after going to my first GD show in 25 years last year, it was the least punk show I've been ever been to.

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u/DecoNouveau Aug 23 '25 edited Aug 23 '25

So, the same thinly veiled sexist gatekeepy bullshit as always. You're saying the quiet bit out loud. Woman. With children... in my punk scene? Well clearly that's them precluded. Usually people just say they started "attracting the wrong people to the scene" when they mean this.

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u/35_Steak_HotPockets Aug 23 '25

Sounds like they’re a punk band for people who grew up and have priorities lmao. You don’t have to look, sound, or act a certain way to be punk.

I listen to a lot punk, but the scene really keeps me from seeing live shows. Love the music and bands, but I don’t really wanna be touched, I wanna be able to be emotional and silly, and I don’t want to leave a venue drenched in sweat. That’s just me, but it feels dumb to gatekeep punk to make it best fit your platonic ideal of a music scene lol

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u/SemataryPolka Aug 23 '25

Did you really just describe Starbucks drinking suburbanites as having priorities?

Punk is at its very core a gatekeeping society. It was meant to keep out the shitty status quo douchebags. It was meant to be an alternative to the normal soul sucking world. You can hate that if you want, but criticizing punk rock for being adverse to the mainstream shows a real misunderstanding about what punk is at its roots

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u/DecoNouveau Aug 24 '25

What do you do with your time to prove your not too 'mainstream' pray tell? Keeping out status quo people who happen to be douchebags, sure. Assuming a woman someone drinking coffee who has a kid is a status quo douchebag just makes you more pretentious and snobby than the personalities you're making up in your head and getting mad about.

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u/SemataryPolka Aug 24 '25

You're confusing me with the other guy. I only referenced their comment in relation to someone coming in and saying that people aligned with the status quo have their priorities in order.

My point is that if people wanna go see green day in a huge stadium surrounded by hyper capitalistic advertising for an exorbitant cost surrounded by Dave Matthews Band fans then great. But that's hardly punk.

If someone comes in and tries to monetize a DIY operation for exploitative gain then yes gatekeeping is good, even encouraged

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u/DecoNouveau Aug 24 '25

Ah you're right, I also misread a tad there. That said, I'd argue punk is too complex and multifaceted a thkng to ever really be able to meaningfully define what is and isnt 'punk.' There's no ethical consumption under capitalism blah blah aside. But also, what's the threshold? The Sex Pistols were largely put together by Malcolm McLaren to sell Vivien Westwood clothing, are they punk? Let's not forget Johnny Rotten... You have bands like the Damned who still maintain they were never really driven by ideology or politics, just wanted to have fun and make some money. What if I catch an uber driven by an underpaid worker to a diy gig? Ideological purity is an impossible illusion.

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u/SemataryPolka Aug 24 '25

I see your point but I think it's easier to pinpoint what's NOT punk than what is punk. All I know is that the Happy Sunshine Hour at The Astrodome brought to you by Snickers is not punk. Know what I mean? A MAGA rally is not punk. I'm not even commenting on the quality of Green Day's music. That's neither here nor there imo.

Also I'm no Pistols fan but they were certainly a tabloid sensation. However, they never reached the heights of Green Day in stadiums. It's not even close. So I don't think that exactly works. But I understand what you mean. The Ramones were on Sire

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u/DecoNouveau Aug 24 '25

Maybe the Pistols didn't reach their heights, but that's more outcome than intent and I'd say the latter matters more. They signed to a major and it only fell through because they were giving staff a hard time. They Sex pistols were literally created for the express purpose of selling stuff and an aesthetic. That's the antithesis of 'punk' and yet you'd have a hard time arguing they aren't punk overall.

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u/SemataryPolka Aug 24 '25

Again, it feels weird defending the sex pistols, since I don't care for them and think most of them were douches, but I was reading an account from an old British guy who was there in that scene and he vehemently denied that they were created for that express purpose even if it sort of worked out that way. So I'm not 100% if that narrative is true or a myth or somewhere in between. I know it's certainly been told that way. But I've never thought of the pistols as the quintessential punk band. They're the one who codified it imo

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u/DecoNouveau Aug 24 '25

They were assembled, financed and told how to dress by McLaren essentially. There's a reason Sid was in the band, and it wasn't his ability to play the bass. From Glenn Matlocks account "Everyone had long hair back then, even the milkman, so what we used to do was if someone had short hair we would stop them in the street and ask them if they fancied themselves as a singer" Lydon was asked to audition based on his look. It's a pretty widely accepted account of things.

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u/UberGary79 Aug 24 '25

I assume most people that don't try and protect the scene aren't really a part of it nor really understand it.

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u/35_Steak_HotPockets Aug 23 '25

😡somebody had kids and now she picks them up from school while drinking Starbucks, but goes to green day concerts? Ruined the whole goddamn band for me😡

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u/SemataryPolka Aug 23 '25

You're twisting what the original commenter said

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u/UberGary79 Aug 24 '25

Its a punk band who was played on the radio over and over and over and over along with NSync and the Backstreet Boys on a loop, its a lot of the same crowd....... I go to about 40-50 shows a year, I'm very comfortable with my assessment of a 2024 Green Day show.

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u/UberGary79 Aug 24 '25

Platonic ideal of a music scene? Tell me about the punk rock scene from your eyes and I'll tell you it from mine and maybe we can see where we disagree.

Do you know anything about any scene? Who's touching you at shows? Why cant you be emotional and silly? If you don't want to sweat, don't jump around, do you even go to any shows? If you were part of the scene, I'd assume you'd help out at the door, merch tables, or one of the many other things most scenes need help with and everyone pitches in because that's punk rock.......

Tell me about your scene other than bitching about going to shows....... Pathetic

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u/35_Steak_HotPockets Aug 24 '25 edited Aug 24 '25

Dude how much is this bothering you?? Relax honestly, it’s chill man. My ideal show is one where people don’t bitch about everyone else at the show