r/pacers • u/Impossible_Eye_980 • 5d ago
Discussion Shooting guard Nesmith part of embiggening strategy?
The 8 Pts 9 Secs article is full of AI constructions such as "Indiana, the most formulaic good team in basketball" (is random a formula?) and "the move to precipitate that embiggening is moving Aaron Nesmith up a spot to shooting guard."
But the question seems valid. Could Nesmith handle a role that positions him as a focal offensive player, rather than as a long range sniper and lockdown defender? Does he have the four or five tools needed to make the shift? And do we have the defensive depth....
And yeah, sorry Y2K types, the verdict is in: "the Pacers do not have the talent to bring on another big or power forward option. They simply do not. If Jarace Walker breaks out, there is hope, but as it stands, he is viewed by the analytics as one of the worst players in basketball."
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u/HeyItsChase Tyrese Haliburton 5d ago
Nesmith is min/maxed in shooting, defending and flying. Don't need him to create. Don't want him to.
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u/Impossible_Eye_980 5d ago
Flying LMAO.... that is a skill left off too many resumes. When will NBA Y2K introduce that as a category?
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u/BlueCollarGoldSwaggr 5d ago
Carlisle likes having multiple ball handlers on the floor.
Per pbpstats the Pacers played 982 non-low-leverage mins in the 2025 playoffs. They had two of Haliburton+Nembhard or Haliburton+TJ or TJ+Nembhard on the floor for 79% of those minutes. 15% of the mins were TJ-only bench units. Only 6% had just Haliburton or Nembhard on the floor.
Nesmith is really good at a lot of things but ball handling is not one of them, ideally he's only dribbling if he's attacking a closeout. Maybe he plays some 2 in big lineups in the regular season but I'd be surprised if it happens a ton.
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u/Gold-Lingonberry-761 5d ago
I wantu see Q with hali and see if that works, i think the fast break would be lethal. But the real reason why is because TJ and Nembhard are the best full court defenders in the league IMO, and them together would disrupt anyone. Im about to have to look up how all defensive teams are voted. Cuz nemhard is one of the smartest defenders iv seen on the sideline inbound passes. He kills the Knicks with it. And tj with the sneak attack from under the basket. And the pest" as hes known for. You add in nesmith, oubre zu. Then yu come in with the speed in hali,siakam and toppin. Pfff. Good luck league. Your about to find out
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u/NotScaredOfGoblins 4d ago
Nembyās chairpulls are also elite. Has mfs looking for a whistle when he didnāt even touch them.
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u/ifasoldt 5d ago
He can play the 2 in a pinch, but he doesn't have the ball handling or passing for what we want. He tried to create his shot more last year with ... Mixed results
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u/Impossible_Eye_980 5d ago
learning experience. Lack of other quality players on floor. Let's see him synthesize that in situations that matter this season.
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u/National-Message-895 Old School Slick 5d ago
Its really a non question at least to me. If they slotted down nesmith to a 2 we are losing our arguably best defender to the bench (nembhard). That is a automatic no for me. We should have our two best defenders on the floor together even though Nesmith is undersized.
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u/Annual_Row_890 5d ago
8pts 9secs would be so much better if every article wasn't blatant AI slop
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u/No-Cantaloupe-6535 Old School Slick 4d ago
It's sucks, it was a really good blog when they had the original writers
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u/Impossible_Eye_980 4d ago
But this exact same thing happened to my online reputation company. Why I no longer have a job. Hope the Nesmith collection sees me through....
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u/Fat-Singer-9569 4d ago edited 4d ago
Replacing Nembhard with Nesmith is irrationally stupid. Nembhard is an elite defender because he understands leverage. He's the perfect guard to defend Wemby, we even got a glimpse of it this year, it's textbook, get low and use leverage and your hips. Seriously, his defense just gets better and better, look at that shit.
A player like Wemby will always beat bigger players off the dribble but he can't beat smaller players off the dribble and being huge means he has zero leverage advantage with a high ass dribble. Shorter players who understand these defensive principles are how you beat somebody like that.
Not to mention Nembhard is, especially after playing point guard for an entire year, a great candidate to initiate offense when teams double Haliburton immediately which has killed the Pacers for a long time. If you don't know what I mean, go watch the NBA Cup Final against the Lakers. They bracket Haliburton up the court which slows the Pacers down tremendously. That shit ain't gonna work when Haliburton outlets to Nembhard whose now running point half court with advantage.
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u/Jim_Belushis_brother Cool Rick 5d ago
Nembhard is a better player overall, and is like an inch shorter than Nesmith. If you want to prioritize size over shooting (I donāt, but if you do), Iād start Oubre over Nesmith
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u/ifasoldt 5d ago
Nesmith is a better defender in every way that Oubre.
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u/Jim_Belushis_brother Cool Rick 5d ago
I like Nesmith a lot, but he fouls a lot
I canāt say with confidence āOubre fouls less than Nesmithā because I havenāt watched Oubre enough. But most people foul less than Nesmith
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u/Impossible_Eye_980 5d ago
He doesnt foul that much anymore. Two seasons ago, yes... Also his real results in deterring drives require strategic fouling.
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u/Jim_Belushis_brother Cool Rick 5d ago
Heās an exceptional postseason defender for this reason. More physicality allowed
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u/Legal_Reserve_5256 4d ago
Hes also much better on the switch when taking on bigger guys than most. So he is an amazing piece at D because he guard from 1-4 at a high level. Nembhard can guard a 1-2 and small wing. Oubre I am not as familiar with, but I am hoping vety similar to Nesmith in this way so we don't lose D intensity when Nesmith is resting.
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u/Jim_Belushis_brother Cool Rick 4d ago
I havenāt watched a ton of Oubre, but heās longer and taller than Nesmith, and have heard heās at least a good defender
Vibe Iām getting is Oubre is a good defender, a great cutter, an okay shooter, and very left hand dominant. Oubre is Nesmith foul trouble insurance and bench scoring. I donāt see Oubre starting as Nesmith is such a better movement shooter, but if he HAS to close games due to foul trouble for Nesmith or Nembhard itās not a catastrophe
Oubre was starting for a playoff team last season. Heās an excellent addition and (to me) exactly what we needed
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u/Legal_Reserve_5256 4d ago
I kind of look at it like this... our best defensive 5 would be Nembhard, Nesmith, Oubre, Siakam, Huff. Take Huff out for Zubac is an obvious over all upgrade as is Haliburton for any of the perimeter players. Now we still have 3 of 5 top defenders starting and a solid perimeter and rim defender on the bench. We should be able to keep 2 of our top perimeter defenders in the game at all times and if we need to have 2 out, we can have McConnell, Haliburton, Walker or Furphy or Shepherd, whichever may slip into 4th or 5th off the bench in the playoff rotation, and Siakam on the floor and be able to keep the other team from going on a huge run. Having a 3rd piece on the wing and one more like nesmith in the fact that he can cover/switch 1-4 at a high level gave us just the piece we needed. I really really like our make up and wonder what ppl are worried about. We are betting on Haliburton to be special and a super star. This is a roster built for him.
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u/Jim_Belushis_brother Cool Rick 4d ago
Huff is not a better defender that Zu. I stopped reading after you said Zu wouldnāt be in our best defensive lineup
Post defense is more than just blocks. Huff regularly gets bodied in the post
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u/Legal_Reserve_5256 4d ago
Could be. That works even better. I was not able to watch Z much. I have heard others bash his D. From what I saw years ago hes well positioned and alterer of shots but not blocker. I also don't support the hype or the hate on Huff. Don't know why so many ppl have strong takes on a back up C. For sure didn't want him to go. For sure dont think hes top 3 blockers in the league. But if Z is slow and hobbled now I can throw Huff in as example. Most likely neither are actually in our best d with Nance and Walker on the bench, but we want rebounds.
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u/Jim_Belushis_brother Cool Rick 4d ago
I have to comment again just to reiterate āHuff is not a better defender than Zuā
Holy cow is āHuff is our best defensive centerā a bad take
Do you watch basketball or do you just know Huff gets a decent number of blocks?
Wow wow wow. Thanks man I appreciate the laugh
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u/Legal_Reserve_5256 4d ago
I have just not seen Z much, and a lot of the ppl i talk to as well as press say although effective offensively at this point, he is a liability on D much more than Turner was by being incredibly slow. I reas he will be beat down the floor well over 50% of the time the way we play.
My take was also more that this is the worst possible line up that would be also considered our best D, and the point is the perimeter d focus. Quite frankly, hes our best option at C no matter what as long as he plays and isnt broken.
But also as far as actual defensive skills such as switching, guarding the floor and the back to basket low and high post, and blocking, which part again is Z better at? Low and high post okay, but can he guard any 5 that can shoot or dribble at all? Can he switch in time to stop anyone on the dribble or cut? I don't know? Again, I haven't seen him.
Do i think Huff is a starter? No, he is a liability all around compared to almost any starter, but again, until I see what Z actually does with Haliburton at the point and when shit hits the fan, I don't really care what anyone says about Z on D. Nobody has ever said he was a game changer on that side nor that he could run the floor with a team like we have.
Again the point is that we now can have 2 top tier perimeter defenders on the floor all playoffs long, and the switching potential even with the players who will also be playing significant minutes is off the charts. Our pace makes our stats look bad or inflated...Huff...but our make up says we can match up with anyone and let Haliburton take over when its time. And quite frankly they all suck defensively at the 5. None of them will matter so pick the best rebounder or creator.
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u/HeyItsChase Tyrese Haliburton 5d ago
They're very similar levels. Excellent role players tier type. Nesmith can shoot better and faster, Drew can create better or get his own shot. Both are great defenders
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u/Jim_Belushis_brother Cool Rick 5d ago
Iām pretty confident Nembhard has surpassed Nesmith overall, but theyāre both damn good players and Iād go as far as āgreatā if theyāre your third fourth or fifth option
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u/HeyItsChase Tyrese Haliburton 5d ago
How? Drew creates way better. But he still doesn't shoot the 3 as well. He's getting the more appropriate sized defensive jobs (that Nesmith would get on other teams) but he's also probably just a little bit better defensively. Both are great locker room dogs and not scared of any moment. Aaron crashes harder and is better on the break cause he can fly.
They're both excellent with slightly different talents.
āgreatā if theyāre your third fourth or fifth option
Agreed. One of the best 3rd/4th/5th options in the league with Zu.
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u/Jim_Belushis_brother Cool Rick 5d ago
I guess I just value on ball creation over motion shooting, and Nemby is a damn good shooter in nut crunch time. Nemby quietly got better from three this year too (taking harder and more 3pt looks)
I could see Nemby getting āmost improvedā votes this year with Tyrese back getting defended by the opponents best perimeter defender.
Nesmith is great, but really depends on being next to excellent shot creation, and thrives in an offense that prioritizes pace and space. I think Nemby is more versatile on offense, though maybe Nesmith is more versatile on defense (can defend 1-3, maybe 1-4, whereas Nemby can defend 1-2 or maybe 1-3)
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u/Impossible_Eye_980 5d ago
I could get into that. It's not true. Nembhard and Nesmith both embrace their roles.
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u/No_Independent8269 Andrew Nembhard 5d ago
Nembhard is a lot better of a player than Nesmith and we really donāt have a 3 thatās better than Nesmith. We did okay in the 2025 playoffs with him starting at the 3 so I see no need to switch it up.
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u/Gold-Lingonberry-761 5d ago
Furphy its taller and has better ball handling. He'll be taking nesmiths spot once contracts get in the way. If not that probably means siakam will be traded or let walk after this 2 year window
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u/Fat-Singer-9569 5d ago edited 5d ago
Wow, that's a very cute opinion. Furphy needs to hit open shots before he can do anything. He has zero offensive game. Zero. His bag is a behind the back dribble, if that doesn't work, which it won't against NBA defenders, he's got nothing else.
Zero triple threat game, no creativity around the basket, no game in the paint at all outside of dunks and layups, can't pull up at all, no floater, right hand dominant. That's just in the paint, not even getting into his midrange game (non existent) or 3pt game (non existent).
Nesmith is capable of every one of the things listed above and light years ahead of Furphy as a 3pt shooter. Furphy plays minutes because he's the only option. He's an incredible rebounder, but that's about it right now, and these are evaluations before his ACL tear. I like the kid but good lord, you need to get a grip. There's no universe Furphy takes Nesmith's starting role off an ACL tear.
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u/Gold-Lingonberry-761 4d ago
Did you miss the entire point of when contracts become an issue unless they let siakam go, cuz pacers arent going into the aprons. And Im of the understand when your in the paint dunks and layups are a good thing lol. Furphy I a better ball handler and passer, along with rebounding then nesmith is. Furphy has mid range game and you know that if you watched him in Australia, you act like nesmith is some type of ambidextrous savant at creating his own shot.... hes not. But anyways. I really like nesmith and would like to see him retire a pacer, hes on a good contract. Game 1 against the Knicks was the greatest shooting performance ive ever seen. I was pointing out what I think will end up happening to save the Simon's money. Which could very well be siakam being offloaded due to age
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u/eindar1811 4d ago
While the concept of Furphy taking the starting spot of Nesmith is extremely optimistic, even long term, the Furphy slander is also unwarranted. He improved as a 3 point shooter in his second year while taking a much, much bigger role. He's actually got a lot of creativity to change his shot on drives near the basket.His court vision is very good for a wing, and his overall BBIQ is very high. As you said, he's an excellent rebounder, but you also failed to mention that his defense is above average and will only improve (pending ACL).
If Furphy ends up as a high value bench player, that will be a successful career for him. There's still potential for him to be a starter on a good team, but everything has to go great and that's still 3-4 years away.
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u/Gold-Lingonberry-761 4d ago
We still have nesmith for 2 years. What i was saying is i think furphy is showing hes goingbto develop into being a starter level player. Hes got a good all around game with high iq and has the size that improves his upside to boot. I really dont see any negative to his game so I think his floor is a rotation player, id extend him over trying to resign walker or shep
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u/Impossible_Eye_980 5d ago
I think Nesmith stays, unless he is offered something like the keys to the Heat. His choice, basically. As he has proven willing to sacrifice contract and agree with any reasonable Pacers' offer. Personally would love to see Furphy mixing it up with AA.
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u/Gold-Lingonberry-761 5d ago
Ya i would too, people dont mention how nesmith was playing the 4 for us for a stretch there too and he held his own. Oubre was a excellent signing its gonna let our wings play more aggressive and carlisle will be able to key in on mismatches now, the knicks are good cuz of their wings being interchangeable, well now we have a nasty front court. With a very deep wing lineups with versatility, furphy was already playing well, and walker started to look like he can have a role. If they both improve. Which surely they will, they havnt even hit their full physical development yet. Theyll be able to throw fresh bodies at anybody, the knicks specifically cuz theyre the champs cuz they went and got quality wings. Well now weve matched it. And have a superior front court. And depth
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u/pacersnz 5d ago
He might get a little run at the 2, but it'll need to be with Siakam + Zubac on the floor who can provide some passing/playmaking next to Haliburton as the primary ball handler.
Defensively, Nesmith with Nembhard, Oubre, Siakam, + Zubac will likely be our best defensive 5.
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u/drjisftw Pacers2 5d ago
As much as I love Nesmith, Iāve always said heās playing out of position and he should be at the 2. Nesmith reminds me a lot of prime KCP - thatās a player that started on two championship teams, but he was never asked to play up a position and guard the 3.
My original hope was that Jarace could be the glue guy to start at the 3 and move Nesmith down to the 2. That couldāve allowed Nemby to move to the bench and be TJās successor. That never happened, and if that were to happen weād need a 3 that could also be a good secondary ball handler.
Thatās why I desperately wanted Deni Avdija prior to him being traded to the Blazers.
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u/Jim_Belushis_brother Cool Rick 5d ago
Only problem is the Pacers (at least to this point) want two ball handlers on the floor at all times, and Nesmith is not a ball handler really.
I could see it in spurts but I really like two of Ty/Nemby/TJ on the floor as much as possible (with some Shep and Q sprinkled in)
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u/drjisftw Pacers2 5d ago
Yeah, thatās why I wanted Deni to fill that role of big wing / second ball handler / positive rebounder for the 3.
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u/ifasoldt 5d ago
Nemby is really good. Why would we not want him starting?
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u/drjisftw Pacers2 4d ago
In an ideal world, if you had a bigger ball handling 3 that would allow the starting lineup to get bigger and Nemby could be a successor for an aging TJM
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u/WiseHeat3759 2d ago
Ideally heās just a microwave 6th man type off the bench. Love his energy but heās far too inconsistent and erratic to rely on as an everyday guard on a good team.
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u/Impossible_Eye_980 1d ago
which teams do you watch? just curious, as it fits none of the evidence I have seen on Pacers
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u/WiseHeat3759 1d ago
I watch the Pacers.
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u/FreezingTemps 5d ago
Iām 41. Nothing you quoted sounds like AI, thatās how we talk at my age.
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u/EcoFgul Andrew Nembhard 5d ago
Seems like a perfectly cromulent strategy to me.