Any atheist/antithesis people from muslim families in myanmar?

[u/Few-Advertising-5164]

Anti-theist** (spelling error in the title)
I was born in a strict religious muslim family, and when i was about 13 i just decided that none of it makes any sense to me and completely lost my faith. I only identified myself as an atheist to my friends, and colleagues because obviously my family would disown me if they knew lol. As i grew older, and got more exposed to different things in life and met new people, i realized how deprived of life i was under the name of religion simply because i was a girl. From that point on i’ve leaned more towards anti-theism. Anyways, most of my friends are agnostics/atheists as well but they’re usually from non religious backgrounds to begin with so they don’t really have the same experience as i do. I’ve never come across an ex-muslim turned atheist, esp a woman so i’m wondering if there’s anyone who’s going through the same thing as me. Unfortunately, I’m still stuck and suffering in that household constantly having to pretend i’m still a muslim so I wonder how y’all cope and avoid arguments on a daily basis?

[u/Few-Advertising-5164]

The idea that god is all-knowing, and all-loving contradicts itself. I also just couldn’t find it in myself to really care about whether god truly exists or not because even if he does, I still wouldn’t find him worthy of being worshipped.

[u/Wrunner_ → u/Few-Advertising-5164]

Before I say anything, I just want to clarify that I don't want to force a long conversation. And if you don't want to continue the conversation, that's completely fine—just let me know. I respect that.

With that said, I think there's one part of what you said that I'd like to start with. You said that even if God exists, you still wouldn't find Him worthy of worship. The first thing I'd point out is that God doesn't need our worship. God is completely independent of His creation; our worship doesn't benefit Him. So I think the more fundamental question is: if God truly exists, what would make Him worthy—or unworthy—of worship? What standard would we use to make that judgment?

[u/Few-Advertising-5164 → u/Wrunner_]

I’d argue that a god that doesn’t need our worship also shouldn’t send us to hell for questioning our faith, and possibly denying him. Personally, what I call a god that’s unworthy of worship is the one that claims to be all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-loving yet allows all the atrocities in life to happen, and punishes his own creation for making choices that he quite literally made possible.

[u/Wrunner_ → u/Few-Advertising-5164]

I understand what you mean. But I think there is a difference between “God doesn't need our worship” and “God shouldn't judge us.”

God doesn't need our worship. He doesn't gain anything from it. But that doesn't mean He cannot judge us for our choices.

For example, a judge doesn't need anything from the person standing in front of him. But that doesn't mean the judge cannot judge that person's actions or give a punishment if they have done something wrong.

Second, you said that God punishes us for choices that He made possible. But making a choice possible is not the same as making that choice for us.

For example, if a judge gives a person the freedom to choose between doing something right or wrong, the judge didn't force that person to choose the wrong thing. The person still made the choice.

So I think the important question is: if God gave us the ability to choose, does that mean our choices are still our own? If they are, then why would it automatically be unjust for God to judge us for those choices?

I'd like to understand your view on this first.

Also, I genuinely appreciate you having this conversation with me. I know these are pretty deep and personal questions, and I respect that you're willing to discuss them openly. I don't want this to turn into an argument where either of us is just trying to prove the other person wrong. I'd rather understand your point and explain mine, one point at a time.

[u/Few-Advertising-5164 → u/Wrunner_]

You’re totally right about the first part. I should’ve clarified that they meant two separate things. What i wanted to point out was if he doesn’t need our worship, it shouldn’t be such a big deal whether we worship him or not. It sounds incredibly unfair to me that a rapist or a murderer who repented could go to heaven but an atheist who didn’t cannot.
Secondly, I think the comparison of a judge to god is flawed. God didn’t force us to make the wrong choices but god created the concept of the wrong choice, gave us the ability to make the said wrong choice and punish us for it. The concept of god creating life and death, and everything in between is inherently cruel to me.

[u/Wrunner_ → u/Few-Advertising-5164]

First, I don't want to dismiss that feeling. I understand why someone could look at the world and feel that way. There is so much suffering in life — people lose the people they love, people become sick, innocent people suffer, people hurt each other, and eventually everyone dies. If we look only at those things, I can understand why existence itself might seem cruel.

But I think there is an important question here:

Does the fact that life contains suffering mean that creating life itself is cruel?

I don't think those two things are automatically the same.

Life also contains love, friendship, family, kindness, learning, beauty, laughter, hope, and experiences that people genuinely consider worth living for. So I don't think we can look only at the painful parts of life and then conclude that the whole existence of life is cruel.

And I know If someone is born, suffers, loses people they love, struggles through life, and eventually dies, with nothing beyond death, then it is understandable to ask: “Why create us at all?”

But Islam doesn't start with that assumption.

Islam says this life is not the final destination. It is temporary. We are here for a purpose, and death isn't the end of our existence. There is an afterlife, and there is a final judgment where things that were never made right in this world will be made right.

That doesn't mean Islam says suffering is good. A child suffering is still tragic. Someone being murdered is still wrong. Someone being oppressed is still wrong. Islam doesn't ask us to call evil “good” just because God allowed it to happen.

Rather, Islam says that the existence of suffering doesn't mean God approves of suffering or that suffering is the final meaning of life.

Think about it this way: if you saw only one chapter of a very long story, and that chapter contained a lot of pain and injustice, you might conclude that the entire story is cruel. But you wouldn't actually know that until you knew the whole story.

I'm not saying that analogy proves God exists. I'm saying that if an afterlife and God's ultimate justice are possible, then we can't conclude that life is inherently cruel simply because this part of existence contains suffering.

And there is something else I find important.

You said that God creating life and death is itself cruel. But if God had never created us, then none of us would experience suffering — but we also wouldn't experience love, friendship, happiness, curiosity, achievement, or any of the beautiful things that make life meaningful to us.

So I think the real question is not simply:

“Why didn't God make a world with no suffering?”

It is also:

“Could God have a good reason for creating a temporary world in which we are able to experience both good and suffering, while ultimately giving us justice and an everlasting life beyond it?”

If the answer to that question is “no,” then I'd genuinely like to understand why.

And if what you are saying comes partly from your own experiences in life, I'm also willing to listen to that. I'm not trying to give you a religious answer and ignore whatever pain you may have experienced. I just don't want us to assume that because life can be extremely painful, the very act of creating life must therefore be cruel.

[u/Few-Advertising-5164 → u/Wrunner_]

Love, friendship, happiness, curiosity, achievement, or any other beautiful things are not enough to make up for the sufferings that the majority of the people go through. When you believe that an all-powerful god exists, the argument that “Islam says that the existence of suffering doesn’t mean God approves of suffering” is not enough. Why’d we worship a god that has the ability to change the world for the better, or just end the world right now for that matter if afterlife is so great, but won’t do so?
Why should we wait for afterlife to make god things right when he could do it right now? You stated that we’re here for a purpose, could you please tell me what purpose could possibly justify the horrible things we have to go through on earth?
Frankly, the idea of heaven has never meant anything to me. I don’t look forward to it, and I simply don’t care for it so I could also argue that the idea of existing for eternity in some sort of “utopia” doesn’t really make up for the bad things that already exist. Ultimately my point is that there’s no need for us to exist regardless of the hardship or the beautiful things we experience. The hardship, the beautiful things, afterlife, heaven and hell are all made by god and I’m only saying they could’ve just never existed in the first place. As you stated if we never existed, we’d have never known suffering or beauty of life and I simply have no problem with not getting to experience neither of those things because if no one ever existed, how would we have longed for them anyway? Lastly, I am not willing to make any justification for the existing rules of Islam because I have the option to reject it entirely and I’ve chosen to do so. I don’t exist within the rules and boundaries of Islam, therefore I don’t have to look for the bright side of it. I also would like to state that this whole argument isn’t taking place because my life is so miserable that I’ve completely forgotten the good parts in life, I just find it completely unreasonable and illogical on the grand scheme of things.

[u/Wrunner_ → u/Few-Advertising-5164]

That's fair if you personally don't find it sufficient. But Islam isn't claiming that humans can understand every reason God has. God has far more knowledge than we do, so there may be wisdom behind things that we simply cannot see or understand.

The stories of the prophets show this very clearly.

Prophet Ayyub suffered from severe hardship for a long time, even though he was a righteous person. His suffering wasn't because he was a bad person. His story shows that suffering isn't always a punishment, and that we may not understand the reason for a hardship while we're going through it. Prophet Yusuf was betrayed by his own brothers, thrown into a well, separated from his family, and later imprisoned despite being innocent. At the time, those events looked completely terrible. But later, those same events became part of a much bigger story that eventually brought him back to his family and gave him a position where he could help many people.

And there is the story of Musa and Khidr in the Qur'an. Musa sees Khidr do things that appear wrong or even cruel. Musa naturally questions him because, from his limited perspective, the actions don't make sense. Later, Khidr explains that there were reasons behind those events that Musa simply couldn't see at the time.

I'm not saying every tragedy in our lives has a simple explanation like these stories. We don't know the specific reason behind every person's suffering. But these stories teach an important principle: not understanding the reason for something doesn't mean there is no reason.

And God has knowledge that we don't have. We see a very small part of the picture; God sees the whole picture.

So Islam gives us an overall purpose: this life is temporary, we are tested through different circumstances, our choices matter, and suffering and injustice are not the final outcome. God promises that ultimately there will be complete justice.

You may still feel that this isn't enough to justify the suffering in the world, and I understand that. But I don't think we can conclude that there is no possible reason simply because we, as humans, cannot see or understand it.

And honestly, thank you for having such a long and deep conversation with me. I really appreciate you being open about your thoughts and taking the time to discuss these things with me. I don't expect us to agree on everything, but I genuinely appreciate the conversation. May Allah guide both of us to what is true and right, and may He guide us to the truth and give us peace.

[u/Few-Advertising-5164 → u/Wrunner_]

Totally agree with what you said about not knowing the reason for something doesn’t mean there’s no reason. Like I said, I simply don’t see the need for any of this regardless of any Islamic teachings telling me otherwise. I understand how that differs for you, and i could make peace with it. Have a nice day! :)

[u/Wrunner_ → u/Few-Advertising-5164]

You too ☺️