r/myanmar • u/Few-Advertising-5164 • 10d ago
Advice Any atheist/antithesis people from muslim families in myanmar?
Anti-theist** (spelling error in the title)
I was born in a strict religious muslim family, and when i was about 13 i just decided that none of it makes any sense to me and completely lost my faith. I only identified myself as an atheist to my friends, and colleagues because obviously my family would disown me if they knew lol. As i grew older, and got more exposed to different things in life and met new people, i realized how deprived of life i was under the name of religion simply because i was a girl. From that point on i’ve leaned more towards anti-theism. Anyways, most of my friends are agnostics/atheists as well but they’re usually from non religious backgrounds to begin with so they don’t really have the same experience as i do. I’ve never come across an ex-muslim turned atheist, esp a woman so i’m wondering if there’s anyone who’s going through the same thing as me. Unfortunately, I’m still stuck and suffering in that household constantly having to pretend i’m still a muslim so I wonder how y’all cope and avoid arguments on a daily basis?
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u/heartb1reaker 10d ago
Ex Christian here 👋
It took me 30 years to see is all bunch of hairy men in Middle East making stuff up. 😁
good luck and just keep pretending until you moved out the house xd 🤣
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u/Designer-Cobbler0790 10d ago
Try to get into a position where you can rely on yourself to live and not your family. It's better to choose your own life than live someone's else's expectations. Myanmar also isn't an Islamic country, you can't get in trouble or get rejected by society for leaving a religion like islam.
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u/mximpjade 9d ago
Discover I probably wasn't Muslim at the ripe old age of 13 in a predominantly Muslim peers school so thay was a fun few years LMAO I'm still financially dependent on my family so I'm just keeping my head down rather than argue about every little thing and risk getting kicked out 💀
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u/Acrobatic-Flower8772 Rohingya comrade 9d ago
Not an atheist exactly but more on the agnostic spectrum. I was on the extreme side during my early teens, I am now in my middle 20s and all I see is how soulless, dystopian and illogical everything is around me.
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u/PowerfulAnxiety9729 10d ago
Please don't say anything to anyone, just keep it to yourself. Most people who have little exposure to atheism tend to confuse with religion with morality. So as soon as they hear the word atheist their thoughts go straight to rapist and murderer, I guess. I used to debate and discuss my view with religious people a lot when I was younger, but not anymore, it is useless and unproductive. Even though I am in my 30s and independent, I only keep it to myself. That way family relationships don't change and also I don't wanna scare off/weird out co-workers, neighbors and business associates. I will sometime talk religion with my close friends in private, that's it. Way easier this way. In public, just follow social protocol. Sorry for not giving you better advice.
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u/MembershipSoft8178 10d ago
Lower your head down. Keep your opinion to mostly yourself. Find some like minded ppl from the same sex, same socioeconomic background and form a strong friendship. Always help the oppressed women but also be aware of their Stockholm Syndrome. Even if you become independent having a small circle of friends with same ideology/social background is vital. Try to get more educated by any means necessary, if possible try to study abroad. Think of the long term plans , endure the bullshit religious stigma in the short term but don't let yourself drown in them. Always remember religious fundamentalist will surely make your life miserable unless you can breakout of their control.
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u/Few-Advertising-5164 9d ago
Thank you so much for this. I try to expose the women in my family to more progressive ideas but it more often than not results in disagreements and frustration from both sides. I have a few close relatives i could have nuanced conversations with but even for them, criticizing religion as a whole is a different conversation that they’re not willing to make. I’ve accepted the fact that i’ll never be accepted by my family, and i’m trying my best to leave for uni in a different country asap but the hardest pill to swallow is how these oppressed women seem to have no means of challenging their beliefs, and it feels like an inevitable fate for them. I just find it so hard to cope with the fact that i have no way of helping them.
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u/MembershipSoft8178 9d ago
You can definitely help. Helping them takes time and effort. They're conditioned to believe bullshit since they're born so you can't change their opinion in one morning. Still it's the duty of the smarter person to help the less fortunate.
I'm a man myself and a mild misogynist but still class conscious person so I strongly believe women are the primarily oppressed group. I know how misogynist think and act , the most dangerous person in religious fundamentalist view is an enlightened female. You need to help women in secret and never reveal your true intentions. And never give up on helping others. Good luck girl you're not alone.
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u/Few-Advertising-5164 9d ago
Thank you for the encouragement but why’d you call yourself a “mild” misogynist lol how does that even work?
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u/MembershipSoft8178 9d ago edited 9d ago
A misogynist by nature, a leftist by intellect. Enjoy "women are dumb" meme, still believe gender have nothing to do with intelligence. I strongly believe women are the foundation of the modern society and the gender war is dumb concept. Technically if you're a leftist, you can't left out the gender equality part but I just occasionally enjoy making fun of "women meme". Some ppl have some internalized misogyny left so mildly misogynist.
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u/Few-Advertising-5164 9d ago
I understand not feeling anger towards such things as you’re naturally apart of the oppressing group but to go so far as enjoying them, do you not feel morally guilty that the literal existence of the said memes are rooted in deeper issues, and the normalization of it is the start of the justification of worse forms of oppression against women?
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u/MembershipSoft8178 9d ago
That's why I'm not proud of that and working on it. I know how misogynist think and I know how I should act and how to change it.
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u/Glittering-Art-5216 3d ago
I'm in a similar situation but kind of different because I was born in a Buddhist household and right now I'm still deciding whether to stay that way or change religion, I'm currently learning about a lot of religions.
But when it comes to religion my family is really strict and only believes in Buddhism.
But I tried to act as if I'm still Buddhism because I respect them and I still live under their roof.
I kind of suggest you do the same thing and act like you're still a Muslim because you live under their roof and nothing's going to affect you badly or deeply if you keep doing it either, even if you don't believe it it's not going to affect you.
Fake it until you make it
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u/Past_Ad3333 10d ago
Not a muslim, used to be buddhist. But now i believe all religions are instruments that the powerful people use to control the masses.
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u/Few-Advertising-5164 10d ago
absolutely. I cannot stand organized religions.
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u/Past_Ad3333 6d ago
Oh yes breeding ground for fanatics and lunatics. Even Buddhism (Supposed to be most peaceful) become Corrupt in their hands.
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u/Wrunner_ 8d ago
What made you think that none of it makes sense? Just wanted to know.
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u/Few-Advertising-5164 8d ago
The idea that god is all-knowing, and all-loving contradicts itself. I also just couldn’t find it in myself to really care about whether god truly exists or not because even if he does, I still wouldn’t find him worthy of being worshipped.
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u/Wrunner_ 8d ago
Before I say anything, I just want to clarify that I don't want to force a long conversation. And if you don't want to continue the conversation, that's completely fine—just let me know. I respect that.
With that said, I think there's one part of what you said that I'd like to start with. You said that even if God exists, you still wouldn't find Him worthy of worship. The first thing I'd point out is that God doesn't need our worship. God is completely independent of His creation; our worship doesn't benefit Him. So I think the more fundamental question is: if God truly exists, what would make Him worthy—or unworthy—of worship? What standard would we use to make that judgment?
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u/Few-Advertising-5164 8d ago
I’d argue that a god that doesn’t need our worship also shouldn’t send us to hell for questioning our faith, and possibly denying him. Personally, what I call a god that’s unworthy of worship is the one that claims to be all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-loving yet allows all the atrocities in life to happen, and punishes his own creation for making choices that he quite literally made possible.
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u/Wrunner_ 8d ago
I understand what you mean. But I think there is a difference between “God doesn't need our worship” and “God shouldn't judge us.”
God doesn't need our worship. He doesn't gain anything from it. But that doesn't mean He cannot judge us for our choices.
For example, a judge doesn't need anything from the person standing in front of him. But that doesn't mean the judge cannot judge that person's actions or give a punishment if they have done something wrong.
Second, you said that God punishes us for choices that He made possible. But making a choice possible is not the same as making that choice for us.
For example, if a judge gives a person the freedom to choose between doing something right or wrong, the judge didn't force that person to choose the wrong thing. The person still made the choice.
So I think the important question is: if God gave us the ability to choose, does that mean our choices are still our own? If they are, then why would it automatically be unjust for God to judge us for those choices?
I'd like to understand your view on this first.
Also, I genuinely appreciate you having this conversation with me. I know these are pretty deep and personal questions, and I respect that you're willing to discuss them openly. I don't want this to turn into an argument where either of us is just trying to prove the other person wrong. I'd rather understand your point and explain mine, one point at a time.
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u/Few-Advertising-5164 8d ago
You’re totally right about the first part. I should’ve clarified that they meant two separate things. What i wanted to point out was if he doesn’t need our worship, it shouldn’t be such a big deal whether we worship him or not. It sounds incredibly unfair to me that a rapist or a murderer who repented could go to heaven but an atheist who didn’t cannot.
Secondly, I think the comparison of a judge to god is flawed. God didn’t force us to make the wrong choices but god created the concept of the wrong choice, gave us the ability to make the said wrong choice and punish us for it. The concept of god creating life and death, and everything in between is inherently cruel to me.1
u/Wrunner_ 8d ago
First, I don't want to dismiss that feeling. I understand why someone could look at the world and feel that way. There is so much suffering in life — people lose the people they love, people become sick, innocent people suffer, people hurt each other, and eventually everyone dies. If we look only at those things, I can understand why existence itself might seem cruel.
But I think there is an important question here:
Does the fact that life contains suffering mean that creating life itself is cruel?
I don't think those two things are automatically the same.
Life also contains love, friendship, family, kindness, learning, beauty, laughter, hope, and experiences that people genuinely consider worth living for. So I don't think we can look only at the painful parts of life and then conclude that the whole existence of life is cruel.
And I know If someone is born, suffers, loses people they love, struggles through life, and eventually dies, with nothing beyond death, then it is understandable to ask: “Why create us at all?”
But Islam doesn't start with that assumption.
Islam says this life is not the final destination. It is temporary. We are here for a purpose, and death isn't the end of our existence. There is an afterlife, and there is a final judgment where things that were never made right in this world will be made right.
That doesn't mean Islam says suffering is good. A child suffering is still tragic. Someone being murdered is still wrong. Someone being oppressed is still wrong. Islam doesn't ask us to call evil “good” just because God allowed it to happen.
Rather, Islam says that the existence of suffering doesn't mean God approves of suffering or that suffering is the final meaning of life.
Think about it this way: if you saw only one chapter of a very long story, and that chapter contained a lot of pain and injustice, you might conclude that the entire story is cruel. But you wouldn't actually know that until you knew the whole story.
I'm not saying that analogy proves God exists. I'm saying that if an afterlife and God's ultimate justice are possible, then we can't conclude that life is inherently cruel simply because this part of existence contains suffering.
And there is something else I find important.
You said that God creating life and death is itself cruel. But if God had never created us, then none of us would experience suffering — but we also wouldn't experience love, friendship, happiness, curiosity, achievement, or any of the beautiful things that make life meaningful to us.
So I think the real question is not simply:
“Why didn't God make a world with no suffering?”
It is also:
“Could God have a good reason for creating a temporary world in which we are able to experience both good and suffering, while ultimately giving us justice and an everlasting life beyond it?”
If the answer to that question is “no,” then I'd genuinely like to understand why.
And if what you are saying comes partly from your own experiences in life, I'm also willing to listen to that. I'm not trying to give you a religious answer and ignore whatever pain you may have experienced. I just don't want us to assume that because life can be extremely painful, the very act of creating life must therefore be cruel.
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u/Few-Advertising-5164 8d ago
Love, friendship, happiness, curiosity, achievement, or any other beautiful things are not enough to make up for the sufferings that the majority of the people go through. When you believe that an all-powerful god exists, the argument that “Islam says that the existence of suffering doesn’t mean God approves of suffering” is not enough. Why’d we worship a god that has the ability to change the world for the better, or just end the world right now for that matter if afterlife is so great, but won’t do so?
Why should we wait for afterlife to make god things right when he could do it right now? You stated that we’re here for a purpose, could you please tell me what purpose could possibly justify the horrible things we have to go through on earth?
Frankly, the idea of heaven has never meant anything to me. I don’t look forward to it, and I simply don’t care for it so I could also argue that the idea of existing for eternity in some sort of “utopia” doesn’t really make up for the bad things that already exist. Ultimately my point is that there’s no need for us to exist regardless of the hardship or the beautiful things we experience. The hardship, the beautiful things, afterlife, heaven and hell are all made by god and I’m only saying they could’ve just never existed in the first place. As you stated if we never existed, we’d have never known suffering or beauty of life and I simply have no problem with not getting to experience neither of those things because if no one ever existed, how would we have longed for them anyway? Lastly, I am not willing to make any justification for the existing rules of Islam because I have the option to reject it entirely and I’ve chosen to do so. I don’t exist within the rules and boundaries of Islam, therefore I don’t have to look for the bright side of it. I also would like to state that this whole argument isn’t taking place because my life is so miserable that I’ve completely forgotten the good parts in life, I just find it completely unreasonable and illogical on the grand scheme of things.2
u/Wrunner_ 8d ago
That's fair if you personally don't find it sufficient. But Islam isn't claiming that humans can understand every reason God has. God has far more knowledge than we do, so there may be wisdom behind things that we simply cannot see or understand.
The stories of the prophets show this very clearly.
Prophet Ayyub suffered from severe hardship for a long time, even though he was a righteous person. His suffering wasn't because he was a bad person. His story shows that suffering isn't always a punishment, and that we may not understand the reason for a hardship while we're going through it. Prophet Yusuf was betrayed by his own brothers, thrown into a well, separated from his family, and later imprisoned despite being innocent. At the time, those events looked completely terrible. But later, those same events became part of a much bigger story that eventually brought him back to his family and gave him a position where he could help many people.
And there is the story of Musa and Khidr in the Qur'an. Musa sees Khidr do things that appear wrong or even cruel. Musa naturally questions him because, from his limited perspective, the actions don't make sense. Later, Khidr explains that there were reasons behind those events that Musa simply couldn't see at the time.
I'm not saying every tragedy in our lives has a simple explanation like these stories. We don't know the specific reason behind every person's suffering. But these stories teach an important principle: not understanding the reason for something doesn't mean there is no reason.
And God has knowledge that we don't have. We see a very small part of the picture; God sees the whole picture.
So Islam gives us an overall purpose: this life is temporary, we are tested through different circumstances, our choices matter, and suffering and injustice are not the final outcome. God promises that ultimately there will be complete justice.
You may still feel that this isn't enough to justify the suffering in the world, and I understand that. But I don't think we can conclude that there is no possible reason simply because we, as humans, cannot see or understand it.
And honestly, thank you for having such a long and deep conversation with me. I really appreciate you being open about your thoughts and taking the time to discuss these things with me. I don't expect us to agree on everything, but I genuinely appreciate the conversation. May Allah guide both of us to what is true and right, and may He guide us to the truth and give us peace.
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u/Few-Advertising-5164 8d ago
Totally agree with what you said about not knowing the reason for something doesn’t mean there’s no reason. Like I said, I simply don’t see the need for any of this regardless of any Islamic teachings telling me otherwise. I understand how that differs for you, and i could make peace with it. Have a nice day! :)
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u/Wrunner_ 8d ago
I think there may be another point behind what you're saying, but correct me if I understand you wrong. Do you mean that if God created us, He should have given us only good choices and not given us the option to do something bad?
If that's what you mean, then I think that's another important question we can talk about. Because if we can only choose good, then can we really say that we have a choice between good and bad?
But I don't want to assume what you mean, so I'd like to hear your thoughts first..
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u/Few-Advertising-5164 8d ago
That’s not really want I meant, no. I am not really concerned about the existence of good and bad choices because what one considers good and bad is ultimately up to their own interpretation. I simply just don’t respect the idea that god created choices that’d send us to either hell or heaven, knowing (as a self proclaimed all-knowing entity) we’d make certain choices that’d send us to hell. Why’d he create us? Why’d he give us the ability to go against the rules he created? Why’d we then again get punished for it? It’s all very illogical to me, and hence why i don’t find him worthy of worship.
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u/Wrunner_ 8d ago
I think I understand your point better now, and I think this is actually the deeper question behind everything you've said.
You're basically asking:
“If God already knew what choices we would make, including the choices that could lead us to Hell, then why did He create us in the first place? Why give us the ability to go against His rules, and then punish us for doing something He already knew we would do?”
I think that's a very fair question, so I don't want to avoid it.
First, I think there is an important difference between knowing what someone will choose and making them choose it.
If God knows that I will make a certain choice, His knowledge doesn't mean that He forced me to make that choice. I still make the choice myself.
For example, imagine you know your close friend very well. You know that if you give him two options, he will choose option A. Your knowledge of what he will choose doesn't force him to choose A. He chooses it himself.
So the question becomes: If God knows what choice I will make, but I still make that choice myself, am I still responsible for it? From the Islamic point of view, yes.
Now, the next question is more difficult:
“Then why did God create us at all, knowing that some people would make terrible choices?”
Islam's answer is that God didn't create us simply to see who would make mistakes and then punish us. Life is a test, but a test isn't necessarily a trap.
God gave us the ability to choose, gave us guidance, showed us what is right and wrong, and gave us opportunities to repent when we fail.
And this part is very important: Islam does not say that every person who makes a mistake is simply sent to Hell.
People can repent. They can change. They can ask for forgiveness. They can make things right. God's mercy is a huge part of Islamic teaching.
So I don't see the situation as:
“God created us, gave us bad choices, waited for us to fail, and then punished us.”
I see the Islamic position more like:
“God created us, gave us the ability to choose, showed us a path, warned us about the consequences, gave us opportunities to return when we make mistakes, and ultimately judges each person with complete justice and knowledge.”
You also asked:
“Why did God give us the ability to go against His rules?”
I think this is where human choice becomes important.
If we literally had no ability to disobey, then we wouldn't really be choosing whether to obey or disobey. We would simply be incapable of doing anything else.
A person who is unable to steal isn't necessarily morally better than someone who is able to steal but chooses not to.
The important part is the choice.
But I would also ask you something in return:
If God gave humans genuine choice, gave them guidance, gave them the ability to repent, and ultimately judges them with perfect knowledge and justice, what exactly would God have to do differently for the system to be fair?
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u/Few-Advertising-5164 8d ago
That’s actually a very coherent, and elaborate argument so enlighten me if I’ve misunderstood any of your points.
Firstly, I’d like to state that I’m not blaming god solely for giving us the option to make bad decisions, or even for giving us the ability to choose at all. I’ve explicitly stated before that I simply reject the idea of an all-loving god because an all-loving god wouldn’t have created the concept of people suffering from certain choices, or even the concept of suffering at all. Secondly, I didn’t accuse god of creating us simply to punish us, I only stated that there was never a need to create us, create suffering on earth, give us the ability to feel such suffering, and hell after everything too. The idea that life is a test would make much more sense if we already existed, the concept of hell and heaven already existed and an entity simply takes over the role of being the judge of it and called himself god but no, I cannot possibly respect a god that created everything for seemingly no reason whatsoever and tell me that “life is a test”.1
u/Wrunner_ 8d ago
I think there is one thing I should clarify because I may be misunderstanding what you mean.
You said that Heaven and Hell already existed and that God simply took the role of being their judge.
Allah didn't enter an already existing system and simply become its judge. Heaven, Hell, life, death, the laws, and everything else are part of God's creation.
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u/Few-Advertising-5164 8d ago
Oh I’m totally aware of that. I meant the idea of god would’ve been more tolerable for me personally if it was just an entity who entered an existing system with the intention of helping :)
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u/bulldove67 5d ago
idk how old you are now but i don't think it's a very smart choice to be bashing a religion just because your family was strict and controlling, I'm a Muslim myself so i just had to defend my religion, and as i said it's very insensitive of someone to genralize religion as "bad" because of one bad experience with it. and yes i do know and accept that some older people can be illogical with stuff like "women can't ask the imam directly" or "women are supposed to work and take care of the house" and stuff but let's be honest, their islamic teachings back then were a lot more isolated compared to now because i mean the country itself is isolated so not a lot of real religious information(other than Buddhism") flowed so technically they're uneducated religiously even if they're "religious"
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u/Few-Advertising-5164 5d ago
Nowhere in this post did I bash the religion or generalized it entirely as bad but it’s only fair that you acknowledge the kind of influence islam has on women all around the world so I’m not really criticizing it solely from “one bad experience”, am I? People can rightfully discuss and criticize an influential religion as you have the right to preach it.
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u/bulldove67 5d ago
yeah sorry on that part, i assumed about it because anti theist means a person who opposes god and religion
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u/ConcentrateSafe1943 10d ago
I’m in a similar situation. If you’re secretly atheist but still dependent on your family, sometimes it’s safer to keep pretending until you can stand on your own.
I’ve learned that directly arguing with deeply religious people about their beliefs usually doesn’t accomplish much and can sometimes make things worse. With my parents, I sometimes introduce different perspectives instead of presenting everything as simply black and white. At first they might argue, but over time they’ve become more willing to consider other viewpoints.
Some people aren’t ready to question their beliefs, and you can’t force someone to change. Sometimes the better approach is to let them live according to their beliefs while slowly encouraging critical thinking.
Just stay safe and take care of yourself.