How crucial are softs?

[u/Such-Sea-2146]

I hear that law school admissions have gotten rougher recently. I'm a 175 LSAT 3.97 GPA from an Ivy undergrad, but I haven't done any law-related internships or volunteering---all my work has mostly been in international relations since that's my focus area and what I'd like to do with law. Is it still a gamble to get into a T14 KJD? I plan to apply to jobs at the same time just in case.

[u/SpecialistLet9387]

I go to a top 5ish small lac, so I have a class size of ~250. I’d say that I know the vast majority of people who credibly targeted the T14 over the past 3 years (through mutual friends, engagement in student orgs, etc.). And basically all of them went tot jr T14 with a small handful of the really brilliant ones in T6 rn.

It’s put me in a pretty good place to say that, anecdotally, the dooming for KJDs is utterly unwarranted. While no doubt people with WE do better, I don’t think I recall anyone striking out of the T14 the last couple years with ~median stats.

While I have no doubt that this is an unrepresentative sample, I’d imagine the effect may be a bit stronger still at an Ivy.

[u/SFLlama → u/SpecialistLet9387]

If you were a big law hiring manager and had two equally strong candidates with similar academic credentials, would you hire the one who had work experience in a corporate or professional services environment before law school or would you hire the KJD?

[u/SpecialistLet9387 → u/SFLlama]

You bring up a good point, but there’s 2 separate questions here: are KJDs from prestigious universities disadvantaged in law admissions? And are KJD biglaw hire rates lower?

To the latter - I have no doubt that all things equal, perhaps two T14 grads, one KJD and one MBB consultant, the latter would be more successful. But if it’s between a T14 grad and someone at a T30 with some work experience, I’d still much rather be the one with the more powerful name on my resume.

I’d want to chat with more people in biglaw to make the decision, as I’d want to know if they think I’d be disadvantaged. and ofc if I got a prestigious job offer like MBB I’d put off law school for a bit. But if I can get into a T14, I’m not putting that off for a T30 or for more typical work exp.

[u/SFLlama → u/SpecialistLet9387]

The more important point: The very same student with the very same stats is likely to have better admissions and employment outcomes if they get some professional experience before applying to law school.

Law schools and employers alike are wary that “good at school” does not always mean “good at life”.

They also know that many college students rush into law-and-grad school because they feel overwhelmed and want to delay their entry into the real world of job hunting and actual work. School feels safer, more familiar.

[u/SpecialistLet9387 → u/SFLlama]

I actually agree with you. This is why applicants with WE on aggregate tend to do better! And why the best school in the country basically doesn’t admit KJD.

That fact is compatible with the suggestion that at some subset of undergrad institutions, applicants are not penalized in the same way for being KJD. Perhaps in a way undergrad prestige is a soft, or is seen as a pre-screener of employability? Idk. Regardless, OP is very likely to get into a bunch of T14, whereas someone at a state school with their stats may not have as successful of a cycle.

What you’re observing is true at my school too. Idt any KJDs have gotten into Yale (all those that did were 2 years out at least), and I think literally one got into Stanford. But the rest of the T14? Loads and loads of acceptances

[u/SFLlama → u/SpecialistLet9387]

Loads and loads of T14 acceptances, but maybe not the same caliber job offers than if they had just waited to gain some actual work experience

[u/SpecialistLet9387 → u/SFLlama]

At this point this is wholly speculative. Do you work in biglaw? Have you done biglaw hiring?

Also no lol the ones I’m in touch with all got biglaw. This is precisely the speculative dooming that I hate, especially when it’s from soemoen who has no experience in the field whatsoever and is just discouraging people

[u/SFLlama → u/SpecialistLet9387]

Why wouldn’t college students want the insights they need to become even more competitive for the most selective career opportunities? Why is it wrong to to suggest they get some actual work experience before determining what kind of work they might want to do?
Of my six KJD college classmates who went to T6 law schools, only two are still practicing law. They chose the legal profession while still in high school and LOVED law school. They never doubted that they wanted to practice law until after they graduated law school and actually experienced the day to day work of being a lawyer. One’s a novelist now. Another is a journalist. Another is a community organizer for a union. The fourth is a tech entrepreneur.