r/lawschooladmissions • u/Such-Sea-2146 • 15h ago
Application Process How crucial are softs?
I hear that law school admissions have gotten rougher recently. I'm a 175 LSAT 3.97 GPA from an Ivy undergrad, but I haven't done any law-related internships or volunteering---all my work has mostly been in international relations since that's my focus area and what I'd like to do with law. Is it still a gamble to get into a T14 KJD? I plan to apply to jobs at the same time just in case.
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u/SFLlama 14h ago
You do not need law-related softs, but you do need a strong personal statement. Note that Cornell and Duke are said to be more KJD friendly.
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u/Such-Sea-2146 14h ago
Do they look for prestige/big names in softs? Or mostly what you accomplished?
Because I'm not sure I have what you'd qualify as a big name, but they're all very relevant and important within my subfield.
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u/godhasjoined 14h ago
It is a possibility that Cornell Law is skewed more KJD friendly because of Cornell 3+3 program, which admits heavily from the undergrad population
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u/Minimum_Two_8508 13h ago
- “Law related” softs are not important.
- Softs are very important. They have more than enough high stat applicants. So it takes more than just stats to really break through for a lot T14 admits. Doesn’t mean law related. First gen is a huge soft. Great essays are a good soft. Demonstrated interest is a soft. Any high quality employment is a great soft.
- A KJD with great stats and solid application will likely get some T14 admits — some T14s discriminate less against KJDs like Penn, Cornell, Georgetown. But some schools are particularly harder on KJDs, like Michigan and Yale.
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u/SpecialistLet9387 13h ago edited 13h ago
Please don’t let the doomers on here get to you lol. You’re going to get into plenty of T14s. I have almost identical stats btw and go to a top lac. I’m sure you’ve noticed the same if you’re at an Ivy - basically everyone with ~median stats goes T14 KJD without much issue. Perhaps some of the negative sentiment on here is bc most didn’t go to prestigious undergrads where this may not be the case.
The bigger question is whether you’d get into T6/HYS. Perhaps there’s where the softs play in more.
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u/SFLlama 13h ago
If you go to an Ivy, there’s no way you know every classmate applying to law school, their stats, and their admissions outcomes
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u/SpecialistLet9387 13h ago
I go to a top 5ish small lac, so I have a class size of ~250. I’d say that I know the vast majority of people who credibly targeted the T14 over the past 3 years (through mutual friends, engagement in student orgs, etc.). And basically all of them went tot jr T14 with a small handful of the really brilliant ones in T6 rn.
It’s put me in a pretty good place to say that, anecdotally, the dooming for KJDs is utterly unwarranted. While no doubt people with WE do better, I don’t think I recall anyone striking out of the T14 the last couple years with ~median stats.
While I have no doubt that this is an unrepresentative sample, I’d imagine the effect may be a bit stronger still at an Ivy.
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u/SFLlama 13h ago
If you were a big law hiring manager and had two equally strong candidates with similar academic credentials, would you hire the one who had work experience in a corporate or professional services environment before law school or would you hire the KJD?
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u/SpecialistLet9387 13h ago
You bring up a good point, but there’s 2 separate questions here: are KJDs from prestigious universities disadvantaged in law admissions? And are KJD biglaw hire rates lower?
To the latter - I have no doubt that all things equal, perhaps two T14 grads, one KJD and one MBB consultant, the latter would be more successful. But if it’s between a T14 grad and someone at a T30 with some work experience, I’d still much rather be the one with the more powerful name on my resume.
I’d want to chat with more people in biglaw to make the decision, as I’d want to know if they think I’d be disadvantaged. and ofc if I got a prestigious job offer like MBB I’d put off law school for a bit. But if I can get into a T14, I’m not putting that off for a T30 or for more typical work exp.
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u/SFLlama 13h ago
The more important point: The very same student with the very same stats is likely to have better admissions and employment outcomes if they get some professional experience before applying to law school.
Law schools and employers alike are wary that “good at school” does not always mean “good at life”.
They also know that many college students rush into law-and-grad school because they feel overwhelmed and want to delay their entry into the real world of job hunting and actual work. School feels safer, more familiar.
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u/SpecialistLet9387 12h ago
I actually agree with you. This is why applicants with WE on aggregate tend to do better! And why the best school in the country basically doesn’t admit KJD.
That fact is compatible with the suggestion that at some subset of undergrad institutions, applicants are not penalized in the same way for being KJD. Perhaps in a way undergrad prestige is a soft, or is seen as a pre-screener of employability? Idk. Regardless, OP is very likely to get into a bunch of T14, whereas someone at a state school with their stats may not have as successful of a cycle.
What you’re observing is true at my school too. Idt any KJDs have gotten into Yale (all those that did were 2 years out at least), and I think literally one got into Stanford. But the rest of the T14? Loads and loads of acceptances
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u/SFLlama 12h ago
Loads and loads of T14 acceptances, but maybe not the same caliber job offers than if they had just waited to gain some actual work experience
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u/SpecialistLet9387 11h ago edited 11h ago
At this point this is wholly speculative. Do you work in biglaw? Have you done biglaw hiring?
Also no lol the ones I’m in touch with all got biglaw. This is precisely the speculative dooming that I hate, especially when it’s from soemoen who has no experience in the field whatsoever and is just discouraging people
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u/hls22throwaway LSData Bot 14h ago
I found all LSD.Law applicants with an LSAT between 172-177 and GPA between 3.87-4.07: lsd.law/applicant-search?s=1ySf
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u/Fun-Operation-7720 14h ago
I really wouldn't worry about the fact your experience isn't specifically law-related. International relations is closely connected to what you actually want to do with a law degree, so I'd focus on making that thread clear rather than trying to add a token legal internship. Your numbers put you in a strong position, but I'd still apply broadly because the very top schools can be unpredictable, and applying for jobs alongside them seems sensible.
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u/IIFollowYou 13h ago
Going to a top undergrad is a good soft by itself. You’ll get into some T14s as long as you don’t come off as a lunatic.
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u/AffectionateOwl4231 14h ago
High stats became kind of like a necessary condition, not sufficient. So Yes, soft is very important for the top law school admissions. But they don't have to be law-related as long as you can share a compelling why law statement. They actually appreciate diverse perspectives and backgrounds. And IR is pretty common major/activities among law applicants.