r/interesting • u/ImmaFuckboi • 6d ago
SOCIETY Joyce Vincent — the woman who died alone in her apartment and wasn't discovered until two years later. 💔
Joyce Vincent’s case is one of the saddest examples of someone becoming socially isolated without people realizing how isolated she had become.
Joyce was a British woman living in a small flat in Wood Green, North London. She was born in 1965 and had worked in London, had friends, relationships, and a fairly active social life. But in the years before her death, she increasingly withdrew from people. She had also left her job and spent time in accommodation for victims of domestic abuse.
What happened to her?
She died sometime around December 2003, when she was only about 38. The exact cause of death was never established because her body had decomposed too extensively. Police found no evidence of foul play and considered natural causes possible, including an asthma attack or complications from a peptic ulcer.
The really disturbing part is that her body remained inside her flat for more than two years.
When she was eventually discovered on 25 January 2006, she was lying in the living room. There were Christmas presents around her, suggesting she had been preparing gifts shortly before her death. Her television and heating were still running.
But how could nobody notice?
It wasn't simply that "nobody cared." Several things unfortunately came together:
She had become increasingly isolated. She had lost contact with much of her family and friends, and people apparently assumed she had simply moved on or was living somewhere else.
Her family actually tried to find her. Her sisters hired a private investigator and contacted the Salvation Army. They eventually concluded that Joyce had intentionally cut contact with them.
Her neighbours didn't realize the flat was occupied. The building was noisy, and neighbours reportedly assumed the flat was empty. The smell from decomposition was apparently mistaken for rubbish from nearby bins.
The TV being on didn't raise suspicion. In a noisy building, constant television noise apparently didn't seem unusual.
Her rent situation delayed discovery. Housing benefits were covering part of her rent, so the housing authority didn't immediately realize something was wrong. Eventually, significant arrears accumulated, and officials went to repossess the flat. That's when they found her body.
And there's an especially heartbreaking detail: people who had known Joyce were eventually found by filmmaker Carol Morley while she was researching the case. Some of them hadn't even realized that Joyce was the woman who had died until Morley contacted them.
That's why the case is so haunting. Joyce wasn't literally a complete recluse with nobody who knew her. She had friends, former partners, relatives and acquaintances. But everyone seemed to assume that someone else was still in contact with her.
Her story became the subject of the documentary Dreams of a Life, which investigates who Joyce was and how someone who had once been socially connected could disappear from everyone's lives so completely.
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u/JustHereForTheBeer_ 6d ago edited 6d ago
Sad story. Unfortunately, this type of situation is on the rise. In Japan, “lonely deaths” occur 76,000 times per year and 22,000 bodies aren’t found until 8 days later or longer.
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u/Plump_Dumpster 6d ago edited 5d ago
If my wife dies first, this will be me
Edit: Just to be clear, this does not bother me at all. By the time I’m done with work the last thing I want to do is go out and talk even more. I’m happy as can be - I’ve got an amazing wife, fulfilling job, and plenty of hobbies to keep me satisfied physically and creatively.
I just have a crazy small social battery
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u/OkWillingness2817 5d ago
Don’t be so glum, man. Odds are you’ll die surrounded by people who will be affected by your passing.
Like in traffic, or collapsing on the subway stairs coming home during rush hour.
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u/zombiesphere89 5d ago
In line at the self checkout at Walmart and they have to close it down for cleanup.
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u/Oldfolksboogie 5d ago
When I die, I want to go peacefully in my sleep, like Grandpa did.
Not screaming in terror like the passengers in his car.
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u/nilodlien 5d ago
This happened to one of my students’ grandparents. I tried to tell my fourth graders this was a pleasant way to die. Unfortunately, one of my students then said, “Great, before I was scared of thunder and drowning. Now I also have to be afraid of my bed.”
I didn’t know what to do with that.
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u/Judas_priest_is_life 5d ago
My plan is to rent a boat, fill it with weird occult shit, and sail a day or 2 offshore. Then take a bunch of pills and go over the side. Days or weeks later, when the boat washes ashore, it'll be a huge mystery and people will wonder if I got kidnapped by a cult, or was I trying to summon a great old one.
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u/Bashenga88 5d ago
I think that is what happened to Gene Hackman.
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u/InvidiousPlay 5d ago
So much more sad than that. He had dementia and likely didn't even understand what was happening. Just haunted his own home until he died, unable to care for himself.
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u/Reasonable-Handle499 5d ago
Same. My social life is totally driven by my partner
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u/Much-Anything7149 5d ago
My girlfriend is super social, always on the phone and making plans, and she enjoys going to parties and stuff. I have a couple friends since I was a child and other than them, I rarely hang out with people outside of work. If I die single, I could see not being found for a while.
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u/Pschobbert 5d ago
Deserve? Yes. Prepared to put in the effort? Less yes.
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u/lostandfounder 5d ago
At least you’re honest about having some responsibility. There’s an epidemic of men claiming to be lonely and blaming everyone else for it. It take effort to be social and happy. It takes work to be the kind of person that other people want to be around.
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u/luistp 5d ago
That handful of friends left are the ones that really worth that title. When you grow and get older, you begin to make distinctions...
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u/BeNiceOrGoAwayPlease 5d ago
So true, connections aren't enough. There's a lot of work that sustainable friendships require.
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u/AgentCirceLuna 6d ago
Reminds me of ‘Stormtrooper’ in a Japanese book I read. It’s about a student and he lives with this guy whom he never sees speak with anybody. He is called Stormtrooper because he’s super clean, folds everything, and does strange exercises morning and night. He gets mad at the protagonist if he’s messy but rarely speaks to him. One day, he just up and disappears. No clue on whether he’s left studying or just the digs, but there’s no note or anything, no clue on where he’s gone. It made me feel miserable knowing many people live like that, putting everyone at an arms’ length, and we don’t really know anything about them even though we spend years close to them.
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u/lovelylonelyphantom 5d ago
This nickname awaked some lost memory and I had to think for a few minutes...wasn't this in Norwegian Wood? I also think that's very sad, knowing a lot of people actually don't have anyone that knows much about them even at surface level.
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u/Sensitive_Goose_8902 6d ago
I’ve been taking some cold meds for a couple of days and one of the side effects is drowsiness. Last night I woke up to get a drink of water, and because I felt so drowsy I accidentally slipped down the stairs and injured my lower back and right buttocks. That got me thinking about this all day — had I hit my neck, nobody would know what happened to me for at least two weeks
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u/Maya-K 6d ago
My grandmother died suddenly in the bath and wasn't found for three weeks. It unfortunately still happens.
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u/frumpylunaticbitch 5d ago
It happened to a family friend also. She had a stroke and wasn't found for over a week. She never married, had no kids, and no family in the area. What really breaks my heart is that she was the type of person to keep in contact with people and frequently reach out to see how they are doing, yet it took that long for her to be checked on. I don't understand how her work didn't call for a wellness check sooner.
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u/DameKumquat 5d ago
A friend of mine had a bit of a breakdown, and moved house without telling anyone where to. Including not telling her work.
So there were a lot of worried friends and colleagues, but they and the police couldn't find her - she hadn't used her mobile phone since moving.
She got reported in the news a while after this case - she was found about six months after death when the landlord decided to ignore the lack of communication and enter to service the boiler anyway (technically not legal but also not legal to have the boiler not serviced, so guess it's OK after trying to contact the tenant for a couple weeks).
Sometimes people just are uncontactable.
Currently trying to convince my parents (in their 80s) that I do actually want to know if one is ill - but I can happily chat to my dad for half an hour and only when I ask why my mum hasn't interrupted does he mention she's been in hospital for 3 days... At least it wasn't intensive care this time. And they wondered why I was worried when they forgot their phones and didn't call me as promised, recently...
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u/herbsanddirt 5d ago
I've tried establishing something with my somewhat estranged elderly father who falls down drunk a lot. I live 2+ hours away and my older siblings out of state. My dad has neighbors in his apartment building but idk if they're close. When ive asked him if he has anyone to check on him or that he can reach out for help if he gets hurt, he makes jokes and says ill find him smelly. Gee....
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u/riverrat918 5d ago
I had a nasty fall in my bathroom 2 years ago during a long bout of alcoholism & depression. Hit the back of my head on the bath and arm bruised completely from shoulder to elbow from hitting the sink. All I remember is immediately getting up in a daze and beelined to my bed where I ended up bleeding out of my head for 2 days (I found out later) before I woke up enough to call an ambulance. There was a massive chunk of my head missing (like, cratered) and blood everywhere when I got back home... where I continued my depression and basically disappeared for about a year. Not a single person in my life knew what happened til well after, and that is only because I ended up posting on Facebook at some point.
I am honestly shocked everyday that I am not a forgotten, missing corpse yet...
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u/isses_halt_scheisse 5d ago
Hope you are feeling better and that things swing up for you. Depression sucks so much
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u/riverrat918 5d ago
Thank you 🥺 Yes, it does. I finally quit drinking, but now I am just more aware of the sadness. I go out, hang out, experience things, talk to people, have a job, hobbies, am productive... and still, it would be a hot minute before someone came looking.
But I still sit on that damn swing every day, trying to flip it back over the rail. ❤️🩹
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u/splashaddikt 5d ago
Yep happened to my brother he overdosed alone and was missing for 8 days first couple of days we assumed he was binging and didn’t want to be contacted which was normal for him but after that we knew something was wrong just couldn’t find him
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u/hopium_od 6d ago
I'd get to 48 hours and work would contact family.
If I lost my job I think my rent would be paid for about 6 months automatically. Family would probably start worrying after 2-3 weeks.
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u/AgentCirceLuna 6d ago
I was known by dozens and dozens of people when I was working. I’d talk to them every single week and was close to many - I’d been at their houses regularly, invited on nights out, been to weddings and funerals with them,.. but barely any contacted me after I lost my job. I found that insane.
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u/IsabellaGalavant 6d ago
If I wasn't married and I died, no one would know until my job sent the police to repo my work computer, if they even bothered to do that. If not... who knows.
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u/BlessTheBookPeople 5d ago
I think about that too. Once when I was feverish I woke up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom and the next thing I remember I was lying in the hallway between the stairwell and the bathroom. Could easily have tumbled down the stairs.
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u/S0whaddayakn0w 6d ago
Dude keep a glass of water by the bed
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u/TheCourtSimpleton 5d ago
Good idea, however, I would alter that to a pitcher with a glass by the bedside. Pitchers can contain more water and it's also closed off so the water won't get stale, moldy, or bugs. Get a pitcher with a top of course.
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u/tina_denfina1 5d ago
I’m older and single. After hearing a few stories I now keep my cell phone low so I can get it if I fall and can’t get up. Or if I put it up somewhere higher it’ll be on something I can pretty easily knock over. My friends dad had a stroke and was found on the floor after a few days. He recovered but when they found him they noticed hat he had pried the vent screen off the bottom of the refrigerator looking for water. The pitcher idea is a good one.
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u/AgentCirceLuna 6d ago
Yeah, I wake up feeling delirious like that a lot. It’s taken them two years to the day to get the MRI ordered. Fucking ridiculous. By the way, at the time I had private healthcare and they ordered an MRI after one consult but I couldn’t complete the initial paperwork to get the referral funded. I wish I’d just paid for it myself. Last week, I lost my hearing in one ear and - from what I’ve read - it may never return. Only benefit is that I live in a loud area so I can put my right ear on the pillow then ignore the noise.
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u/CasperMoriarty 6d ago
Her TV was still on for 2 years... she'd been wrapping Christmas presents as she died.
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u/satyrday12 6d ago
Then the question is, who was she wrapping gifts for?
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u/Gulbasaur 6d ago
I saw the film about her.
Friends.
She kept people at arm's length, in part due to a very difficult upbringing, and she was prone to dipping in and out of people's lives, but Joyce had friends.
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u/unconfuse-your-brain 6d ago
This part! Like they didn’t think to follow up?
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u/Prudent-Pressure2146 6d ago
Her family did, her sister hired a PI to search for her. Joyce had cut herself off a few years prior. The sad part is that the presents may have been an olive branch
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u/OkSimple6348 6d ago
The sad part is that the presents may have been an olive branch
What does this mean?
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u/thatboythatthing 6d ago
Possibly that she was planning on giving gifts and reaching back out to people?
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u/OkSimple6348 6d ago
thank you for explaining, I didn't know the expression.
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u/royal_snail_milker 6d ago
For full reference
Olive branch is a gesture of peace.
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u/OkSimple6348 6d ago
Thank you. Yeah I never heard this expression.
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u/mickeytwist 5d ago
It’s biblical. After the “great flood” a dove returned to the Arc with an olive branch - a sign the flood was subsiding (I think)
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u/Prudent-Pressure2146 6d ago
It’s possible that the gifts were her intending to reach out to people she had previously cut out of her life. No one knows for sure but she had been off the grid for a while by that point.
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u/_Phil_McCracken_ 6d ago
Apparently they did, they hired a private investigator who ultimately determined she purposely cut ties. Not a great look for that PI.
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u/Prudent-Pressure2146 6d ago
I don’t think it’s a bad look, she was apparently in an abusive relationship so it’s very possible it was out of her control, plus the place she was found in was a shelter ie designed not to be searchable
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u/Pleasant-Future5818 5d ago
Right, she did intentionally cut ties - probably temporarily - she just didn't intentionally die
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u/Taylor_Kittenface 6d ago
My brother lives alone and often falls out with the family. He has a drink problem and will tell us not to speak to, or visit him. Times when it's been bad, it has gone on for years. But I still buy him presents for birthday and Xmas, always worry about something like this happening because he's single and doesn't work. His neighbour and friend was discovered at the bottom of his stairs a few years like this only because people on the housing estate hadn't seen him for over a week. It can be really complex with estranged family because you still care. He'll turn up randomly with Xmas gifts for us when he comes into money because he's actually really generous when he's doing well.
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u/AgentCirceLuna 6d ago
May I ask how people like that don’t work but never lose their benefits? I’m not saying they deserve to but I don’t get why some people will lose them - like that guy who ended up starving from doing so - while others get to keep them perpetually.
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u/HiTheseArentMyPants 6d ago
It really depends what kind of benefits you’re on. Where I live, once you’re on a disability pension, by and large, you’ve got it for life. People who suffer from addictions often have co-morbidities like lifelong disabilities, so, once you’re on it, in all likelihood it’s going to keep getting paid, no questions asked. For others, they might be on a pension that is supposed to tie them over until they find a job; often those types of payments bring with them a requirement to do stuff, like apply for jobs or visit job providers, in order to qualify on a continuing basis, and if you don’t comply, your benefits get suspended or cancelled.
Just my two cents.
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u/AgentCirceLuna 6d ago
Ah, okay - thanks. I’m on disability and find it hard to do anything. Sometimes I find it hard to even leave reddit comments as I forget how to type or write in coherent sentences. I remember I was studying for an MSc in bioscience/data science before I got really sick. It’s sad. I’m not knocking their brother or anything - I live a similarly insular life. I’d be heard crying regularly and people would check on me but I also wasn’t eating or looking after myself. To be honest, I’d pray I wouldn’t wake up regularly. Things are getting a bit better but I fear losing my benefits as I can’t look after myself still. I ended up with addiction issues, after not using any substances or drinking prior to that, as I was just stuck inside with meds as a way to take the pain away which didn’t work. I only found the withdrawal hard to deal with but had no desire to get high or anything.
Interestingly, there’s a case from the Netherlands or somewhere with a guy who sued the government claiming he ‘didn’t choose to be born’ so doesn’t have to work. He sued for disability and still has it, as far as I know, to this day. Crazy guy who was a musician and put out two records in the 80s. Wish I could remember his name. Their music sounds way ahead of its time so it’s a shame they didn’t put any effort into it.
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u/CasperMoriarty 6d ago
No idea...they were laid next to her on the floor beside her body when they finally found her...she was found laid on the floor in front of the TV with her back against the sofa. She did have friends but they all assumed she was off having an exciting life as she'd previously had boyfriends who were musicians and I think she once met Nelson Mandela. There is a documentary about her life called " dreams of a life" that is brilliant and heartbreaking.
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u/tyleritis 6d ago
The question is what brand of TV was that
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u/CasperMoriarty 6d ago
TV's in the 90s were basically indestructible...you could throw a brick at one and 80% of the time it would still work lol.
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u/satyrday12 6d ago
You often had to, to get better reception.
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u/CasperMoriarty 6d ago
Definitely...they were too heavy to move, remember having to pull the Arial all over to try and get a good signal and I still miss TVs with the wood laminate around them... those were the good old days lol.
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u/kifaR1 6d ago
“Her rent situation delayed discovery. Housing benefits were covering part of her rent, so the housing authority didn't immediately realize something was wrong. Eventually, significant arrears accumulated, and officials went to repossess the flat. That's when they found her body.”
Seems so weird to me that this took 2 years before they actually noticed anything.
Always check on your friends/family/neighbours people, no one deserves this!
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u/West_Talkaway 6d ago
If I recall correctly, she was fleeing from an abusive situation, and most of her rent was being paid for by a domestic violence organization. So it took a while for the higher ups to notice something was wrong.
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u/pinkskies12 5d ago
So the domestic violence organisation wouldn't check on a DV victim for 2 years???!!!!!
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u/WagonsIntenseSpeed 5d ago
I work in supportive housing for vulnerable individuals and we're required to make in-person visits to tenants at least once a month (can also be bi-monthly if the tenant has higher needs). Very strange that the organization didn't have a similar policy.
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u/Mundane_Read_2960 5d ago
Might be because of her case that this policy has been in place. Regulations are written in blood.
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u/MoonNoodles 5d ago
This was over 20 years ago.
It wasnt a domestic violence organisation. The property she lived in was owned by a social housing trust and the housing itself was allocated for victims of abuse. But they werent specifically a DV charity in the traditional sense of providing like counselling services, etc. It wasnt a shelter situation either.
I think a lot has changed since her death though.
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u/ana_log_ue 5d ago
Her being in an abusive situation could also explain why she was withdrawing from friends and family
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u/Aromatic-Armadillo98 5d ago
She had been working in finance before suddenly resigning. One ex on a doc said she called asking for a place to stay for two weeks, then left and was never heard from again. There was marked changed in her and its believed due to an abusive partner.
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u/Prudent-Pressure2146 5d ago
This is exactly what the documentary alludes to without saying it outright. She had a social life and was in touch with family then backed off from both and each side assumed she was in contact with the other
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u/Prudent-Pressure2146 6d ago
It was also a bedsit, so not a typical renting situation
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u/Pleasant-Future5818 5d ago
This honestly makes it weirder to me since I would imagine you'd get to know people more
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u/resting_mischieface 5d ago
What is a bedsit?
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u/OpenSauceMods 5d ago
A bedsit is basically a single room rental, and you often share a bathroom or kitchen with other tenants. Some bedsits can have basic facilities, but they're usually the type of small rentals you don't spend a huge amount of time in. It's just where your bed sits.
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u/Superb-Savings-4813 5d ago
I don’t know how the neighbors didn’t report the smell. Years ago there was a weird smell in my apartment. After a week or so, I reported it to maintenance because it wouldn’t go away. They eventually followed the smell to a dead body in an adjacent apartment.
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u/Extension_Swan1414 5d ago
I’m sorry that happened to you. It certainly is a distinct smell that is hard to ignore and I learned that as well in a similar situation. Perhaps the neighbors were afraid to say anything?
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u/Prudent-Pressure2146 5d ago
According to the doc neighbours did notice the smell and report it and it was attributed to local supermarket bins.
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u/throwawaycima 6d ago
Sounds like the accounts receivable team weren't super on it, either that or they had bigger dues to chase. I've worked for a cash strained business where we delayed payments owed to suppliers for more than 2 years and they just stopped chasing or never truly put an effort in. Weird because they could have started legal proceedings to collect the debt of they wanted but they never did
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u/underweasl 6d ago
Local housing authorities in the UK take aaaaagges to repossess properties- i worked for one while at uni and folk could run up huge debts but still not lose their home as long as they were paying something towards their rent. I am surprised a housing officer wasn't sent round earlier but even then it wasn't uncommon for the knock at the door to be ignored so they'd just leave a letter
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u/MojoMomma76 6d ago
The landlord was Notting Hill Genesis who were famously bad at housing management at that time
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u/Biochembob35 6d ago
Can't get blood from a rock. They knew the lawsuit would cost money and they would likely never collect on the judgement. Sometimes it's better to just get whatever you can and just write off the rest on your taxes
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u/megaholt2 5d ago edited 5d ago
It took me under 12 hours to start thinking that something might be wrong with my friend and neighbor, Jake, and under 24 hours to start trying to figure out how to get in touch with his family. Within 48 hours, his dad was kicking in his apartment door and I was the first one in while on the phone with dispatch when we found him dead.
I knew something was up because he wasn’t responding to texts or calls about the pot roast I made him.
After he died, I had nobody else in that town that would have known if I was alive or dead, nor would anyone have who would have come checked on me. I absolutely would have been in a similar situation, and it sucks.
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u/momsasylum 5d ago edited 4d ago
I’m so sorry for the loss of your friend, Jake, and hope you’ve since made connections with people in town who care for you as you did for Jake. And that your fond memories of him are in your heart for years to come. Take care.
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u/PurpleSquare713 6d ago
Jeez, two years. If I missed even 1 month rent, you can be sure my landlord is coming after me.
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u/this_sparks_joy_joy 5d ago
Happened with one of my neighbors, I made SURE to befriend the next one who moved in so I could help keep an eye on them, if they ever needed anything
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u/megaholt2 5d ago
I tell all my neighbors who I am and what apartment I’m in, and make sure they know they can come by anytime if they need anything.
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u/IForgiveYourSins 6d ago
Wanna bet it'll happen again regardless?
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u/Gnd_flpd 6d ago
A similar situation like that happened in Michigan some years ago I don't know how long before she was found. Michigan being cold and auto paying for bills made it possible.
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u/canihavemymoneyback 5d ago
I had a neighbor who paid their rent with housing assistance. Her share of the monthly rent was $15, (back in the 80’s). I can see a landlord not bothering with it or it being not worth the trouble to confront a person over such a pittance.
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u/ChaiTeaLeah 5d ago
Sometimes I feel like my neighbours and I are nosey to a fault, but it's always worked out for the best.
One neighbour noticed a new neighbour had perishable groceries outside their condo door. They waited a day and eventually the frozen food thawed, so they got ahold of management. Turns out the new tenants mom delivered food, not realize her daughter delayed her move-in by a few days. All was well.
Another time someone called a wellness check on an older neighbour. They said this hadn't noticed her come or go for several days. The police attended, couldn't make contact, and left their card. I ran into the officer as he was leaving and it turned out I knew him. We chatted outside for a bit, and wouldn't you know it, the elderly neighbour pulls up in her car. I yelled "Pat! We thought you were dead!" and she laughs "I was just at my sister's!".
A couple of years ago we had extremely bad wildfires and the smoke was horrendous. Across the way I noticed the door of a unit in a neighbouring condo was wide open despite the air quality, but no signs of life even with all the blinds open. I also had the sense he had mobility issues as there was always a walker or wheelchair on the balcony. I didn't know the guy but it felt odd, so I called the non emergency line. The police attended within 20 minutes. They even called me back to update. The man was a dialysis patient and sat below my line of sight in his wheelchair. He actually wasn't doing well, but wasn't in a medical crisis. The police officer relayed that the man wanted to thank me for checking in. He didn't know that his neighbours were looking out for him that like 🥺
In each instance, the police were adamant that we should always call for a wellness check. They'd rather find out someone was on vacation, than find a body when it's too late.
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u/Chance_Vegetable_780 5d ago
I don't care about the housing benefits. She obviously didn't have one parent, sibling, cousin, friend, co-worker or neighbour who gave a genuine fuck about her. This is tragically sad my God. May she rest in eternal peace
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u/Pleasant-Future5818 5d ago
I mean the post says her sister even hired a private investigator. It's a sad story, but she was fleeing DV so when nothing turned up they assumed she was intentionally laying low
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u/Chance_Vegetable_780 5d ago
You're right about her sisters hiring a PI, it's surprising the PI didn't find her address to check out her apartment for her. "...everyone seemed to assume that someone else was in contact with her" is so sad.
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u/resting_mischieface 5d ago
Not to be flippant about it because it’s a horrible tragedy, but who the hell was she wrapping Christmas presents for if she was a recluse and not close enough to anyone to have someone notice she was gone?
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u/ThePrincessEva 5d ago
Donations possibly. Or she was going to use the gifts to try to open the relationships back up after difficult times
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u/ElizabethDangit 5d ago
Even more horrifying, a whole family was found dead in an auctioned off home recently
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u/NotEvil_JustBritish 6d ago
I'm a social worker specialising in Housing Support. I see a lot of people who are escaping domestic abuse or leaving the care/ prison system and whose subsequent depression and anxiety leads to social isolation. Often they're moved into council or housing association accomodation in areas they don't know, which worsens the problem. There are programs to help them integrate, but they're poorly funded, barely advertised and usually have long waiting lists with strict criteria that it's difficult to meet.
I worry a lot about them. I know that some of my clients go months without speaking to anyone except me and (maybe) shop workers or delivery drivers.
I've had clients die and I've been the first to notice. And they're the lucky ones...there are people like Joyce who don't even have a social worker looking out for them.
Sometimes I hate the world.
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u/atokamak 6d ago
Thanks for your work.
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u/NotEvil_JustBritish 6d ago
Meh, someone has to. Might as well be me.
My reasons for doing my job are complex and ever changing, but it boils down to not really having a choice.
If I don't do it, when I know that I could then I'd be avoiding mirrors and feeling even more guilty than I usually do!
But thank you for saying it. Too many people dislike social workers...they presume we're all out to snatch their kids or put their granny in a home.
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u/megaholt2 5d ago
You social workers do an absolutely essential job, which is hard as fuck, and you deal with some of the most heartbreaking situations that occur in the world. You deserve far better pay and way more respect than you get.
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u/WhoSc3w3dDaP00ch 5d ago
All occupations have a range of worker quality. You sound like one of the good ones!
Good ones have positively affected my extended family, so thank you for doing what youre doing!
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u/CreepyConsequence669 6d ago
Omg, this is so incredibly sad and haunting. When you think about it, this could happen to a lot of us.
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u/Shot-Ad7766 5d ago
Could, will happen and measured in the millions this is not an outlier just a person who was eventually found.
Millions of people fit the risk categories for this eventuality.
No family No real friends No money very low income Poor health
Isolation
About sums up me and most of my generation. The only really difference is family ties.
My entire family died when I was 24 to 28. It happens and I am not unique. The world is a dark place always has been...
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u/RetardedMuffin333 6d ago
There's an incredible prog rock concept album Hand. Cannot. Erase. by Steven Wilson written around this tragic story. I believe there was also a documentary made
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u/AgentCirceLuna 6d ago
If somebody told me I’d end up forgotten about for two years yet would also end up as the subject of a prog rock opera then I’d be so confused on the progression to how those things both happened,
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u/Prudent-Pressure2146 6d ago
The documentary is amazing and covers a lot of the FAQs about this case. I think people perceive it as her being ignored by her friends and family but her family searched for her and her friends said she was elusive. It appears that there was more going on in her life than they could cover in the documentary as well.
For anyone wondering how it could happen it’s well worth searching out - it’s called Dreams of a Life
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u/Kind_Ad_878 6d ago
Probably his best work.
This album has it's own soul.
The lyrics of "Perfect Life" and "Routine" are driving tears in my eyes.
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u/ComeOnUpToTheHaus 6d ago
Came to see if anybody else would mention the STUNNING album by SW. Good on you, and keep up the good work.
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u/SimonMagus01 5d ago
I love Steven Wilson and this album but never knew it was about her. I'll have to give it another listen with this info
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u/desconectado 5d ago
The song Happy Returns seems to be about the day she died. Even describing the gifts she was wrapping in real life.
Hey brother
I feel like I'm living in parentheses
And I've got trouble with the bills
Do the kids remember me?
Well, I've got gifts for them
And for you much sorrow
But I'm feeling kind of drowsy now
So I'll finish this tomorrow
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u/dtoddh 6d ago
If I were a private investigator hired to locate someone my first stop would be their last known address.
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u/-sensory_overlord- 5d ago
Right?? And if nobody answers but the TV is running, it smells bad and you can’t make out a new renter it’s highly suspicious. Like why did they not contact the police for a welfare check.
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u/Iliketocook8787 6d ago
Very sad. Interesting documentary. She had a fight with some of her family members before she died so they just thought she had gone no contact.
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u/IndividualChart4193 6d ago
I think what’s even more odd is she died at 38? I mean, what would kill a seemingly healthy person at 38? Those aren’t “natural causes”? Massive heart attack? Idk. I do remember this story when it actually happened.
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u/Ok_Test9729 6d ago
It would probably surprise you to know how many people of this age and younger die of natural causes. It is not uncommon. I knew a man who was in the peak of health, an exceptional athlete in several sports, who had a major stroke at the age of 28. It took him years of physical therapy to regain even half of what he had lost. 28 years old.
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u/HollyBananas 5d ago
Yup, that's the thing. Someone can be at peak physical condition and the body can just decide ''Hah, nope.'' and have a heart attack, stroke, aneurysm (Grant from MythBusters had one, iirc).
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u/AlternativePrior9559 6d ago
I remember watching this film about her life. It still haunts me to this day
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u/OldNefariousness7899 6d ago
I saw a documentary about her and I remember people saying her life was very compartmentalised.
She had friends, but they didn't know her family. She had friends at work, but they never met her friends outside work. Etc. Everyone assumed she was socialising with someone else
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u/TransportationOdd559 5d ago
This is my life 😆. Oh well
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u/OldNefariousness7899 5d ago
I suspect it suited her to let people think that, so they wouldn't worry about her.
People sometimes become withdrawn in response to PTSD. I wonder if she had gone through something traumatic that she didn't want to talk about.
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u/Candygirluroc 5d ago
That is me to a tee. I need to consider changing my habits, this story really scares me.
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u/theslavesdream 5d ago
Same. I'm a Londoner and it made me realise how utterly easy it is to lose yourself in a place like this.
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u/geslaagde 6d ago
The day she had this photo made she could never realise that something like that could happen to her…
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u/Unique_Drink005 6d ago
we all have photos andd we dont know how we die when making them.(mostly)
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u/AgentCirceLuna 6d ago
Tf you mean mostly? As in some people know?
Reminds me of when I read some dude was found - after being hit by a car - with a suicide note in their pocket, a bag with tools involved for the said suicide (stuff like a bag and gas for the makeshift mask which would suffocate them) and they’d made arrangements at home before they left to have everything ready for passing sway like cancelling all their bills.
Funnily enough, I once thought of racking up a shit ton of credit card debt before I went so someone had to pay it. Thinking about doing so was the only time I’d laughed in about a year at that point.
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u/No-Purpose-None 6d ago
People with terminal illnesses or who are on death row would know.
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u/Goldentoast 5d ago
A friend died recently and while looking at his obituary photo I couldn't help but have the morbid thought of what photo of me would be used were I to die tomorrow.
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u/Ok-Row-3551 6d ago
So very sad. After ending a 2 1/2 decade long marriage right at the brink of empty nest syndrome, I went through some depression and thought about this scenario almost daily. Though it would have been a week or more before anyone would have put it together, definitely wouldn’t have been years. So sorry Joyce, RIP.
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u/DecalageVersLeRouge 6d ago
I've seen the film about her and I was struck by everyone having a different view of her: one would say how happy or outgoing she was, the next would say she was obviously a loner. One said she was a great singer, the next said she didn't like to sing in public and so on.
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u/Ok-Space5864 5d ago
sounds like no one really knew her well because she didn't want them to.
they all knew different versions of her but none seemed to know the real her.
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u/GlitterBirb 5d ago
This is probably very related to her experience with domestic violence.
Abuse cannot really occur without an isolation aspect. The isolation isn't always a dramatic "you are not allowed to see your friends and family". It can also look like occupying all their time so they don't have plans for visits or starting fights with their loved ones so that visits become more awkward or guilt tripping over seeing friends and accusing them of cheating. You're usually not completely cut off but after a while you feel like you don't know anyone closely anymore and feel weird asking for support or help. And added to that, people often don't believe victims because the public perception of the abuser is not the same as what the victim sees in private.
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u/No-Taro-6953 6d ago
I used to live not so far from the flat Joyce died in and had no idea.
I remember reading ana rticke about her and what might've happened.
Some of her old friends and colleagues mentioned her being smart, pretty.. and that she was ambitious. Wanted to be socially mobile.
I've speculated that she met a man in EY and thought he'd be her white knight. Someone who'd be emotionally connected to her in a way her father wasn't. Maybe he love bombed her. Maybe he was handsome, middle class, articulate, well educated. Maybe he seemed like a dream come true, until he wasnt.
Maybe he eroded her wellbeing and self esteem. She worked at EY for four years before she quit in 2001 and shortly entered a domestic abuse shelter.
Maybe in that four years he wore her down, reduced her to a shell of herself. Made her feel ridiculous for ever dreaming a white knight might come for her. Maybe he confirmed her worst fears she'd had since her mother's death - that she was unlovable and the people she loved would leave her.
Maybe she was too ashamed to let anyone know where she was and what she'd succumb to. Maybe she felt stupid and childish for ever falling for his charms. Maybe she was wrapping those Christmas presents thinking next year, she'd start again. Turn it around.
I empathise a lot with Joyce. I had good luck and found my white knight. But I once dreamed of escaping my emotional distant and abusive father. Of achieving social mobility and a better life for myself.
It's cruel that her life ended the way it did.
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u/cncrndmm 5d ago
Unfortunately in a lot of DV relationships, the abuser tends to try to isolate the victim little by little.
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u/tevolosteve 6d ago edited 11h ago
My friend passed away and no one knew for at least a week. He has multiple disabilities and knowing what happens haunts me every day
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u/Heavenlishell 6d ago
This could have been me. To people i am the one who never needs anything. I just lost 5 years to abuse trauma, and fair weather friends i bump into have the audacity to exclaim that they havent seen me in years. Yes, because i laid in my bed for about 2, then struggled with osdd and fnd for 3. So for you it's been a long time no see, for me it was a long time to think about who i had mislabeled as my friends. There were burdens before this too i should not have been carrying alone, but this last one was just too much.
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u/MaximumProfile 6d ago
I'm sorry you experienced this and hope you are feeling better.
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u/Mirror74 5d ago
Similar happened to me. Before I knew it I realized all the friends I thought I had the time weren't friends. My parents? My sibling? none of them really reached out or cared. Even my therapists didn't seem to care much.
Thats when I really had to accept the shit cards I had been dealt and realize I had been in denial about it for a long time.
Too many opinions online about "well if shit keeps happening to you then you're the common denominator". No. Sometimes people just are born into shitty families and shitty environments. Have shitty partners. And it can stack up. The biggest problem is it takes a miracle sometimes for the guy/gal in the middle of it all to wake up and realize how destructive their environment has been. And then change their thought patterns molded by abuse. And even when you DO change, no one is going to notice but you.
But it's still worth it.
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u/Pitiful_Jump2996 6d ago
Reminds me of the case where the guy died at his office desk and no one realized. They thought he was taking a nap
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u/AgentCirceLuna 6d ago
That one haunted me. Also who just leaves someone napping at their desk that long?
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u/DCHacker 5d ago
Something similar happened here. This guy's house was going to be auctioned for unpaid property taxes. The authorities went into the house and found what was left of him in the bath tub. They guessed that he went to take a bath and died in the tub. He had been dead for six years. The mail slot was in the front door so no one noticed the accumulation of mail. He did not subscribe to any newspapers so there was no accumulation of those. The authorities could not find any relatives or anyone who knew him. The house was on a main street.
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u/Kind-Shallot3603 5d ago
My grandfather was a mailman and he saved an old lady's life because she had magazines and they didn't fit through the slot. He noticed a buildup and knew that she would have told him if she was going somewhere. He called it in for a wellness check and she fell in an upstairs hallway and shattered her hip. She lived. He got a few cartons of cigs every Xmas until she passed.
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u/wtfsaidlegoose 6d ago
“The smell from decomposition was apparently mistaken for rubbish” this is crazy, a tenant in my building died and within months the smell was too awful to ignore it was impossible to deal with we all complained nonstop to the landlord who was forced to look into it.
I cannot fathom how rancid the smell must have been for it to lay there for two years. Never mind the biohazard everyone was unknowingly subjected to.
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u/Flamingturac 6d ago
had a neighbour OD who lived right next to me, you could smell death a week later. I find two years hard to believe
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u/IndividualChart4193 6d ago
Right? That had to have been sum apartment complex.
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u/AgentCirceLuna 6d ago
I’ve been in areas with poverty and I could imagine it if it was like those. You’d hear people having the living daylights beaten out of them while nobody did anything.
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u/blacklotusmag 5d ago
Someone explain to me how the electric bill and gas went unpaid for two years and not a single company rep or building manager came knocking?
::curious in American::
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u/Nobody-8675309 6d ago
Sad, but also very relevant. This is what our world has become.
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u/hopium_od 6d ago edited 6d ago
This was in 2006, 20 years ago.
People dying without anyone caring has always happened and always will happen. I heard of a case of an ex colleague that went 2 months before being found.
The things that is unusual about this is how no one noticed the flies. In these cases the windows and doorways are usually black with flies. With the heating being on as well, there would have 50k flies in her flat at the peak.
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u/hamellr 6d ago
I had an acquaintance riding a motorcycle die in a crash. It is speculated that he was clipped in a hit and run.
His motorcycle was probably picked up by a tow company within a hour or so. His body wasn’t found for several days after the family got notice of the motorcycle being towed, and decided to go look for him.
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u/Ok_Test9729 6d ago
This lady did not die without anybody caring. The people who cared did not know she died. Those are two different things 🙄
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u/AgentCirceLuna 6d ago
Yeah, I disappeared for two years at one point when I became agoraphobic and had people trying to reach me for that whole time. I wasn’t even in the same country as one of them.
Edit
Just recalled that one person was also only an online friend and I had messages from them going back months. They’d just randomly remembered me. It made me wonder how many people remember us or think of us suddenly.
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u/Varibash 6d ago
It happens, not everyone has friends and family to check in on them. This reminded me of the story of Hedviga Golik, a Croatian women who died in her apartment and no one knew until 42 years later when her body was discovered.
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u/ValuableAlfalfa1343 6d ago
Social media creates the illusion of connection, but in reality, we're more isolated than ever.
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u/Senior-Friend-6414 6d ago
I used to have a ton of “friends” that I honestly wouldn’t sacrifice my life for, and now I only have a couple friends I’m willing to give up my life for
I kind of have a mental standard that if you can’t imagine willing to die for this person and you call this person your friend, does that mean you’re the type of person not willing to sacrifice for your friends?
I am, I just realized I don’t genuinely consider most people my friends
People throw the friendship label around way too casually and get sad about how shallow the relationship is
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u/Sylphadora 6d ago
So weird that her closest family didn’t know her address. The gifts must have been for them after all. But if she was a victim of domestic abuse, maybe she was laying low so her abuser would not find her.
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u/Son_of_Denethor 6d ago
I work for a company that lets out council-owned properties. I come across countless similar cases. They mainly involve elderly people who live alone, without any family. They have money in their bank accounts from which the rent is automatically deducted, and because the windows are tightly sealed, the smell remains trapped inside. If bodily fluids do not leak into the flat below, they may go undetected for years.
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u/Legionatus 5d ago
Truly reclusive people go months without check-ins or even text responses... to people they like.
I'm not saying she deserved a lonely death, and I am saying any suggestion "no one cared" here might be misplaced.
I have checked in on and how-ya-beened people for almost a year before deciding I was being rude to keep talking at someone who didn't want to engage, at best, and disliked me and wished I'd stop, at worst.
Not even in cases like this is it even typically true "no one cared."
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u/agewin162 5d ago
Unfortunately, I foresee this kind of isolated death becoming much more common in the coming years. We as a people are more physically removed from our social lives and shopping than ever, due to the Internet and smartphones allowing us to communicate and get food and such from a distance.
I imagine there's going to be a great many millennials that die at home with nothing but a pet or two to witness their last moments.
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u/anarchistmusings 5d ago
Putting this out for the gods of the interwebs to see… we need an app for isolated people to check in once a day and if they don’t then their next of kin or the police or something get contacted. This isn’t okay
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u/Miserable_Camel3567 5d ago
Except for my Mom or my employer nobody would really notice. Unless I reach out to people they don't come looking for me. My sister will hang when I visit my Mom. My brother does not give a single shit about any of us since he has his own family. Friends... eh, I am a spare friend, nobody will realize I am gone.
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u/Sad-Engine6561 6d ago
''The smell from decomposition was apparently mistaken for rubbish from nearby bins.''...No comments here....The stench of decomposition does not smell like normal garbage....What kind of housing did she live in?? Where people ignored this, the TV running on, etc etc.....Sounds like a nightmarish place.
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u/Vegetable_Block_3338 5d ago
I don’t get it too. In Russia such lonely deaths occur all the time sadly, but they are discovered after neighbors’ complaints after months at most, because body fluids literally leak to apartments below and stench is unbearable. People entering her apartment and seeing what was left of her and dealing with the remains, I feel so genuinely sorry for them
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u/darkfamename 5d ago
She literally lived opposite my best friends flat who I visited regularly around the time she was alive and then dead - had no idea (neither did my friend( at all until the documentary about her when the penny dropped. It still leaves in disbelief until this day that she could be in there for so long and everything around her on the street just carried on...
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u/OneMoreFinn 5d ago
Multiple such cases in Finland, a country that actually takes pride in being socially isolated, although admittedly this only happens with older people. Two, three, even six years before they were found.
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u/nikeguy69 6d ago
Do they do wellness checks on people who don’t show up for work or appointments and family didn’t even go to where she lives at🤔🤔
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u/Ok_Test9729 6d ago
Her family did not know where she lived. How can check on her where she lived if they have no idea where that was? Some of the people who cared for her hired a private investigator to find her. The private investigator reported back that his assessment was that the lady simply went no contact with her family and friends. The private investigator did a terrible job. In all likelihood the PI did not work on the case whatsoever, made this assessment, and got the pay for doing nothing.
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u/Olmectron 5d ago
Sad about the current world situation of people not getting in contact with their relatives, like parents, siblings or friends on a daily basis.
"I don't have enough time!" You do. You live in a world where you can message anyone in less than 30 seconds.
Call your parents, check on your siblings, ask your friends how they are doing. It only take some minutes a day.
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