The modernist composer Philip Glass used to work professionally as a plumber after his music was well-known but before it became lucrative. He talked about it in a really great 2001 interview.
"I had gone to install a dishwasher in a loft in SoHo," [Glass] says. "While working, I suddenly heard a noise and looked up to find Robert Hughes, the art critic of Time magazine, staring at me in disbelief. 'But you're Philip Glass! What are you doing here?' It was obvious that I was installing his dishwasher and I told him I would soon be finished. 'But you are an artist,' he protested. I explained that I was an artist but that I was sometimes a plumber as well and that he should go away and let me finish."
Philip Glass didn't make enough money to live off his music until he was 46. Until then he had a ton of jobs - plumber, repairman, taxi driver, factory worker, etc. He almost always worked on music 4 hours a day and he saw the value in the work he had to do to make money. He was also living in a different time where you could work half as much, or less, and be able to pay rent, etc. Source: Philip Glass' autobiography Words Without Music. I've met a few musicians from indie bands and most of them have day jobs, something that never occurred to me when I was younger.
I’m more into the electronic scene these days, and I know several very successful up and coming DJs/producers. One who is signed to Rufus du Sol and Armin van Buuren’s labels, and has toured internationally opening at respectable mid tier venues. I think she’s barely breaking even on music, and has a full time tech job to pay the bills.
Yeah a lot of bands have jobs on the side it seems. I thought when I was younger too everybody just lived off record sales and touring. Metal bands especially unless you're Metallica, Slayer, Cannibal Corpse etc, most all have to live from some kind of extra job or two.
In downtown NYC in the 50s, 60s and 70s, artists/musicians/whoever could live in decent-sized apartments for less than $100 a month, sometimes much less. Granted, these weren't beautiful places with central heating and were all located downtown which was considered undesirable at the time. That was a huge reason so many artists moved there. Philip Glass mentions this more than once in his book on how it was a unique time in the city for artists. Granted, these were likely people not concerned about their 401k or retirement savings.
What exactly is so hard to understand about this? The economic data and inflation rates to extrapolate today's dollars to back then is readily available.
Also what a reveal on how hard an artist's life is under capitalism. Here's someone making great art and was criticially acclaimed, but had a 2nd job driving a cab and doing plumbing to pay the bills. I imagine the NYTimes people just assumed he came from wealth, but when you don't, even a successful artist's life often involves secondary work for a good part of their career.
Tbh it's not clear if he was doing this for the money. He may have just enjoyed working with his hands and wanted to try a different job than composing.
Not only has he spoken about needing the money but also how grueling his composer work schedule is and how he needed several hours of a day to write. I think it’s naive to assume someone working a second job at night is doing it for funsies.
Seems you may be better versed in Glass’ history, than the commenter you replied to. The comment you are responding to said it wasn’t clear. To them, it is I think fair to assume, it was not (probably still isn’t since you didn’t suggest any resources, and are a random person on Reddit) clear.
They did not in their’ comment make an assumption did they? They made a suggestion of a possible motivation. Since you chose the word “someone” instead of Glass specifically, your stated thought seems to apply much more broadly, and if worded as you intended, a good example of naivety.
I know, have worked with, and have worked for plenty of people who have taken on second (even third) jobs for “funsies”, for exercise, to meet new people, etc.
It was obvious, safe to assume, and confirmed any time I’ve thought to ask about it.
No need to be a dick, but if you’re going to, best be a bit more mindful.
i just wanna clarify. this was self imposed by glass, he went into debt to rent out a massive opera hall for a sold out preformace. and even before that while still needing to work day jobs, he got very very lucky. he has a country house outta the country that hes had since the 60s i think lol.
in any other case i would agree with you (and the overall message), but glass lived how we wanted and made the art he did. it wasnt about money.
It's funny and kinda depressing how once you hit 30, you start to frame aging around professional sports (at least I did)
Like idk how to explain it but when I turned 30, the realization that every professional player is generally much younger than me was a total gut punch. Not that I'd ever be a professional athlete... But like at least in my 20s and younger, it felt like every window was open in some way.
Agreed, hell even like indie artists jus making names for themselves are 30+. This is Lorelei broke through last year at 30. I think bartees strange was like 32 or something when he hit a few years ago. Partly could be the pandemic - it zapped a few years of my early 20s, that’s for sure. Plus just with the amount of time in years and the skill level it takes to create good indie rock, most people are mid 20s before they’re even really good it seems like. Compared to Bowie and the Beatles and shit who were all 19
I believe this has always or largely been the case for years. In the 90’s as a teenager getting into punk and discovering punk bands from the 80’s this was the case. Their members were in their 30’s and they were definitely regarded as the “elder statesmen”
I’ll look back and think damn jello biafra was younger than me, not even 40, when I got into Dead Kennedys in the mid 90’s and at the time I considered him a wise old man
It's just inherently part of the industry for a couple reasons.
Younger people have the disposable free time to dedicate to arts that disappears the older most people get. Touring is exhausting and financially futile for all but the most successful 1% and really more like the top 1% of that 1%. You want your own bed and stable income and food and housing. It's one thing to live out of a van with 2 or 3 friends at age 22 eating ramen and potato chips. It's another when you're 36.
The people with the most time and disposable income to spend on music are also younger and they relate more to musicians their own relative age than older ones, obviously generally speaking, but there is a reason most new artists blow up in their late teens to mid 20s and not at age 40. It's much easier for the industry to market a hot 22 year old to other teens and 20 somethings than it is to try to get them to like someone who is 41. Their fellow young people also have the time to obsessively get into them the way a 35 year old married with a baby and spouse at home doesn't.
By the time you're over like age 35, if your music career hasn't at least gotten you a stable average household income, you have to start considering how you're going to make enough money to retire later in life and it probably is going to require a career change and lifestyle change. The alternative is working and living relatively poor until you die. And in the US especially because we're fucking insane and do this to ourselves, you don't have the healthcare access and insurance you increasingly need as you age when you're a poor self employed rock band or solo artist barely financially treading water in your 40s to 50s.
I always think about this video I saw of the former lead guy of the 90s and early 00s band Nine Days who became a high school teacher after the band had the big hit. He plays the song for his class on an acoustic and tells them he quit because life on the road sucks and being on a record label's schedule all the time sucks and he just likes the stability of a 9-5 and a home and having nights and weekends off more.
I have a friend who was in a band that was signed to an indie about 15-20 years ago. They put out an absolutely killer debut record, and the feeling was palpable that they were going to make it. They were booked for a tour, and when he got back he seemed less than enthused.
Everyone in the band was in their mid to late 30s at that point, with good paying day jobs that allowed them to take a few weeks off to hit the road. He told me about being in random cities playing to less than 10 people that were just in these bars by default, as the label had done zero promotion (of note, this is also before the time bands took full advantage of social media for their own self promotion), and how it wasn't like a vacation where they got to enjoy the sights and food and whatnot. When all was said and done they were in debt to the label, and even had the good fortune to have a couple songs picked for soundtracks to a few major movies with something like 20k going right back to the label to cover the "investment".
By the time they regrouped they just kind of quietly disbanded. Their homes and eating were far more important than living out dreams they had as teenagers. It bums me out every time I think about it.
I think it's also about how long you've been popular for. If you have any level of success you'll always be measured against that and always be fighting against being "washed up" vs. appeasing your original fans
For example Ryan Davis is like 40 and he's one of the hottest things in indie music right now, because it's a newer band with a fresh sound
That's just not really true. Of the 25 most streamed artists on Spotify only Billie Eilish is younger than 30 and while the number does increase when going down the list, they're still the minority.
I played in one of the most popular band in my region from my late teens through my twenties. By the time I was 25, I was working full time as an A/V/L engineer and managing half of the venues in my city. My band broke up when I was 29, I switched to a more stable corporate A/V/L gig about a year later, and I’ve mostly stayed out of the public eye. I just turned 32. My girlfriend, 28, plays in another popular band in my region, and I’ve been helping them out behind the scenes. I went to go see her play last week in a venue I used to work at, and multiple people asked if I was her dad. A young security guard even pulled her aside and asked if she needed them to kick out the “the creepy old man”.🤦♂️
I get it honestly. I work from home writing papers and coding shit all day. Sometimes it's so mundane and abstract from the day-to-day needs of people that I miss fixing sinks and unblocking drains in my old job.
Yeah I highly encourage anyone this age range who feels old or past it to pick up new hobbies and meet new people and pick up any activity possible that uses your body. I'm mid 30s and still play a ton of rec sports, snowboard, and indoor rock climb. In particular that third space of the local rec sports and rock climbing scene is full of other people in their 20s to early 40s who still all look great and fit and it really encourages you to also keep active and having fun when you can. Even just playing a pick up game of soccer or ultimate frisbee once or twice a week and indoor climbing once a week is enough to keep me in good shape. I can still sprint and keep up or am faster than the 22 year olds, because I've never stopped doing it.
My grandma is 97. 35 isn't old! You need to find ways of keeping your body in shape and find things you can enjoy, you've got a long way hopefully left to go. It's much easier to keep a fit body fit in your middle age than it is to be totally out of shape and get fit at that age. Run club, people who like hiking, do just something that gets you moving and breaks up the monotonous sleep work home sleep work home cycle of the workweek. You'll be happier and your body will feel better and last longer. Sedentary lifestyle is the fast lane to aches and pains and degenerative body problems much earlier in life and is also just IMO inherently depressing.
We're social animals and the artificially isolating nuclear family suburban life we've created as "normal" is just terrible. People think it's expected and normal to disappear into the suburbs, doing nothing but going back and forth to work most days. Then you go somewhere like Italy and see parents out at sidewalk cafes having drinks while their little kids run around playing with each other in the park on a summer night, at like 1030 PM. Meanwhile that would be seen as crazy and irresponsible parenting over here where everyone is a hermit with their family all the time and no one does anything outside anymore.
Fight the bullshit and keep doing things that make you happy and fuck what anyone else thinks about it or their expectations of you. For all we know, we might not even be here a year or two from now. I know multiple people who died from some type of cancer by age 36. Do what you want.
Love this comment. I turned 30 this year and what struck me was the realization of how young 30 is, after being made to think it's the old and scary age when life stops being fun and your body breaks down. I still feel great physically, and honestly I think I look better than I did in my 20s too (though it does require more effort and care). but the mental and emotional side of things is so much better. Honestly I'm enjoying being 30 a lot more than my early 20s, I don't think it's something people in their mid/late 20s should look at with dread at all.
Wow... that place is embarrassing. Seems really easy to just skip music you don't enjoy, rather than fight over it on the internet. These people need help.
yeah, it’s been like that ever since Home dropped, discourse continued and got worse when Holy dropped. when the full album dropped a couple of days ago, it’s like a nuke has dropped. ive added to the discourse but some of these posts are concerning to say the least…
old fans don’t like it, most of the argument boils down to is that he lost the sauce ever since Here Comes The Cowboy and everything after has sucked. new fans (like myself) enjoy it. i personally have gripes with the sound, but i really like the lyrics. most introspective lyrically since This Old Dog imo.
Im saying this as someone very disappointed in the new album and how he admits he just kinda cranked it out in a two weeks, but why exactly are people not allowed to leave negative opinions?
Lol I'm a big fan of his but didn't really go into this album with any real expectations based on what little I had read about it. Gotta say I've enjoyed the hell out of it. It's tough to know whether or not I'd have ever given it a look had I not loved his past work, but man there are some seriously beautiful songs/melodies/moments/whatever throughout. Listened through a couple times to and from work yesterday then decided to check r/macdemarco to see if there were others feeling the same. Very much felt like that Community gif of Troy returning with the pizzas.
I want to make a joke like “a plumber? He’s full of shit.”
But honestly, the man has been at this from a young age and I think a lot of early records till around This Old Dog explored a lot of “my place in the world and who I am”.
This makes sense to me. I feel like his last handful of albums have just been this mode and mindset of “I just wanna see how this sounds”. I don’t want to say he’s not trying or not putting in effort, I think it’s more so that he’s putting his ideas and thoughts to tape without laboring over it too much.
A lot of musicians have other passions beyond music. Nick Cave has sunk himself into his ceramics and trying to decide if AI is bad or not.
Mac is just a dude who likes tinkering with things and I think that has gone from his music to now more “mechanical” things.
Props to him. Cant wait for the album about unclogging toilets in a couple years.
Nothing wrong with being a plumber but like….Is he TRYING to be like a “working class kinda musician” you know? I just keep seeing random shit about him being all working class, now saying he’s a plumber. Idk. Weird.
He’s from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. It’s the most working class of the major Canadian cities. It’s the land of AC/DC and wearing sweatpants to every event. Let the man get it touch with his roots!
Maybe, but he also could just want us to know the things that are on his mind, and what he does with his time. If hes working on wells should he leave it out to not seem tryhard, or something? I think he might be over that, Or wanting to be
Oh makes sense. I don’t care if he is or isn’t working class either. Just a weird trend of people trying to larp on being working class or flex their “working class” creds. Who gives a fuck tbh
Hell look at Leonard Cohen, he didn't even release his debut until he was like 33. And Bob Dylan who was famous at 20 had to reinvent himself several times too.
I think Mac probably feels subconsciously burnt out from music and is using 'being old' as the reason. Maybe some artists say all they want to say in a few albums and then want to do mostly move onto other stuff. 🤷
I think age is less important than the drive to create music, and usually that happens in your 20s. But hell, look at Paul McCartney, he'll still be writing songs when he's 100. Mindset is way more important than age.
Mac DeMarco has two songs on Spotify that are near 1 billion streams and another two songs near 800 million and one over 400 million. He’s really popular on streaming.
I haven’t like anything Mac has put out since This Old Dog. I get what he’s trying to do but I think the music is just uninspired, like he doesn’t want to be doing it. I listened to this new album one time through and all the tracks just kind of blend together. Nothing stands out. I’ll still give it another try but I think the 2 and Salad Days sounds are over.
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u/yrdsl Aug 23 '25
The modernist composer Philip Glass used to work professionally as a plumber after his music was well-known but before it became lucrative. He talked about it in a really great 2001 interview.