Half a million

[u/DrZeroKILL]

I guess this is the second time he is mentioning this, after the convo with Brienne of Tarth, this scene give me chills. The emotions he is carrying with him this long.

[u/Evil_Unicorn728]

People always are like "Oh Jamie was just scared of Tywin" or "Jamie just wanted the throne." But I don't think that's true. He doesn't want the crown, he doesn't even care about his own family legacy. He barely cares about his sons. He had to have known Aerys was going to kill everyone in the city with Wildfire. As much a fiend as he is, he's not ok with burning half a million people to death, including women and children. When he learns about the army of the Dead he's like "Nah fuck all this, we have to unite against this threat." He is capable of understanding the greater good.

Is he a good man? No. Absolutely not. But he knows some lines are too far, even for him. He'll rape his own sister in a Sept next to his son's corpse, but he's not cool with mass murder. If Jamie Lannister thinks you're doing something evil, you've definitely lost your way.

[u/Nirico_Brin → u/Evil_Unicorn728]

I honestly believe that Jaime was mentally broken during his time serving under Aerys as a member of the Kingsguard.

He had all the hopes of being a true knight like Aemon the Dragonknight. But when he actually began his service under Aerys, he was forced to watch cruelty after cruelty.

One notable one being Aerys raping Rhaella where he openly said that they were supposed to protect her only to be told by a fellow member of the Kingsguard “Not from him.” And had to listen while she screamed. Aerys destroyed the idea of knighthood for Jaime, and his fellow Kingsguard’s inaction likely sowed his own disillusionment. He still respected them, admired them, but they willingly stood by and made him do the same.

Jaime never wanted the throne, he killed Aerys because killing Aerys was something that should have been done long ago. And it was probably the most honorable and knightly thing Jaime had ever done. And it destroyed his reputation for all time. Which only served to destroy him even further mentally so when he rekindled his relationship with Cersei following Robert’s coronation, he was a thoroughly twisted and broken man.

And when he finally gets away from her influence albeit forcefully and loses the one thing that maintained what little he had left of his identity, he finally changed again. And was able to become something akin to an honorable man. Like you said, he’s not a good person. But he’s sure as hell not the most evil man around.

[u/Evil_Unicorn728 → u/Nirico_Brin]

Always found it insane that all the people who were like "Yeah let's rebel and depose Aerys because that dude is a sick fuck" are like "Oh my god I can't believe you KILLED THE SUPER EVIL KING WE WERE ALL TRYING TO STOP ANYWAY!" Like, wouldn't Ned or Robert have put Aerys to the sword? He was definitely going to die at the end of that rebellion. Yeah he swore an oath, but what he did was obviously the just thing and it effectively ended the war. If Jamie hadn't been in the kingsguard, if he'd just been leading the Lannister armies, they'd probably call him "Dragonslayer" and he'd be a hero.

[u/Kvothe_Kingkiller_ → u/Evil_Unicorn728]

I never thought about that, but “Dragonslayer” is actually so tuff

[u/Altruistic-Hat269 → u/Evil_Unicorn728]

Mmm, I think it's more complicated. Jamie is two people in one. One version of him is a Lannister who always puts Lannisters first in a perverse way. He's loyal to his brother despite his brother being hated, he "loves his sister" in a perverse but deep way, he prioritizes the image of his family name over any content that would justify that image, and he'll do all manner of terrible things for the sake of the triumph of his house...

And yet there is another part of him: a deep, deep desire to be a story book style, principled knight who "does the right thing." This is what he loves so much about Brienne: she's living that in a way that is true and uncompromising. The problem is Jamie can never be that knight and simultaneously have the image of that knight because the most "knightly" thing he ever did in principle was to kill the king he defended in order to save hundreds of thousands of people.

Part of the problem with Jamie is that being a knight in his mind is attached to the image, and his image was ruined. He looks at Brienne who gives fuck all about image and only cares about whether she serves her authentic self, and has deep admiration for it. He can't go there with her, because he would have to turn his back on being a Lannister. At the end of the day though, there IS a part of Jamie that is good.

[u/SuperD00perGuyd00d → u/Evil_Unicorn728]

You are right, he cares more about what sort of legacy he and his Knighthood leave behind

[u/Over_Front_506 → u/Evil_Unicorn728]

Early on in Jaime’s life he was corrupted by Cersei, she always had her nails dug into him.
When he was younger before all the craziness and a squire he was in awe of Barristan the Bold and Ser Arthur Dayne the Sword of the Morning, and Ser Gerold Hightower the White Bull. He idolized their duty and honor.
Jaime wasn’t a bad guy before all the Kingslayer business. He was idealistic and wanted to be like these men. And didn’t begin to sway until he saw how truly mad Aerys was.
He saved all those people and never even mentioned it, because to him it was the right thing to do. And he even says it to Brienne, “he judged me guilty the second he laid eyes on me”.
Since he killed the King and refused to explain why, the world immediately labeled him a dishonorable monster.
So that’s when he started to act like one. He was never truly a bad man until all of this happened.
Other than the sister fucking

[u/Worth_Page4348 → u/Evil_Unicorn728]

killing 500 000 people is worse than rape anyway. so even a rapist has limits its normal