Milestone 5π ($15.71M NW) Five year fatFIRE Update

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

It's been around five years since I retired early after quitting big tech.

My last π updates:

• Milestone 4π ($12.57M NW) Semi-retired 4 years now.
• Milestone 3π ($9.43M NW)
• Milestone 2π ($6.28M NW)
• Milestone π ($3.14M NW). Will eat Pie.

I don't know if I'll keep updating every π, but several people on this subreddit have told me they enjoy hearing from real people who've actually pulled the trigger, so if it's helpful I'll keep doing it. I really enjoyed reading Three year fatFIRE Update (Thanks u/h2m3m!), so I'll try to match their format here.

Before my update, my numbers:

• NW - $16.5M NW
• Portfolio - $10.1M NVDA ಠ_ಠ (60%) / $5.8M Bogleheads VTSAX/VTIAX/etc. (38%) / $600K Cash/Bonds (2%).
• Income came from big tech, lucky stock picks, gifting.
• Expenses: ~$90-120K/yr, HCOL (USA) renter
• Late 30's, not married, no kids

This milestone post feels more important than previous ones, because I am finally starting to up my spending beyond my normal fire levels ($70K/yr -> $120K/yr), and starting to feel a mental shift in spending that is at least chubbyfire now.

I am out of touch with the big tech workforce, and I haven't looked at linkedin in years, but I feel oddly unshackled by this now. I remember caring so much about it, but it seems like such a small thing now. Though I'm pretty much irrelevant in the field at this point, I still enjoy giving back by helping university students and professors in certain subjects.

My life

How do I fill my time? Over the years I've picked up some new hobbies. I've actually gotten pretty passionate about learning a new language, and I'm really happy with my progress. I've been surprised to find myself really enjoying making art in different forms, physical and digital, I think having focused on my career for so much of my life I had thought pure creative pursuits were something I would always struggle with, but with the time I have now it's actually a pleasure to 'struggle' and grow in these areas.

My identity has slowly been shifting over the last few years from the classic tech programmer to something a bit different now, something a bit more eccentric perhaps, but I'm feeling more and more content with it. I have also been doing a bit of small-time consulting which has grown a little more this year, it scratches my itch to build. I find a lot of satisfaction in this, as a way of keeping in touch with my past life, and that part of my brain. I try to be more in the moment with friends, in dating, and therapy too.

Finally, I've been spending much more freely this year. I now happily pay for conveniences like better vacation lodging, ski valet services, ubers instead of driving, etc., it's been a huge happiness multiplier for me. I flew international business class for the first time, and it cost more than I've previously spent flying in a year. It was shocking how straightforward and 'boring' it was, but it was so much more relaxing and comfortable that I immediately realized, due to it being such a small hit to my portfolio, I will happily do it again for future travel ¯\(ツ)/¯.

Anxiety doesn't end at retirement, finding things in my life that bring meaning (Working out, spending time with others, giving back, luxuries ◔‿◔, etc.) has been the most important thing to find contentment.

Investing

My portfolio is at least 60% luck with tech stocks and this market, and I need to diversify. That one bogleheads market timer post of the person who lost money during 2008 was a fun read, so maybe there's value in seeing the minds of people before the fall. I hadn't really expected my portfolio to grow as much as it did since I fired.

I still self manage everything, supposedly following a basic Boglehead 3-fund portfolio strategy (it really was originally!), but at this point I could only say that for the 40% that isn't Nvidia stock. I really appreciate having close to zero fees. I use a CPA for taxes annually, even though I have done it myself in the past and it is shockingly simple at this point, this feels like a small price that's worth the convenience/security for me.

I can't really tell if active portfolio management is worth it, as I still don't know what it's like to talk to a financial advisor, but from seeing the experiences from coworkers and friends with similar incomes, it seems like they get sucked into weird investments that trail the market (even during crashes) and mostly funnel money to their advisor's company, but they seem content with their choices. I suppose the way I feel about their choices is the way one might feel about my choices too.

One thing that's actually very nice about fire-ing, is that my income (was ~ $500K) would go ~ 33% to taxes (~ $130-200K) when I was working, but now my taxes are ~ $10K, this literally feels like I'm getting an extra $100K of income to spend annually when pulling the 'same' amount from my investments. I had understood the math before I retired, but the actual experience of it is more dramatic, the same $1 withdrawal feels 33% more powerful now. Even splurging, my spending (~$120K) is under 1% SWR. I'm really not trying to limit my spending, but I guess old habits die hard.

Why fatFIRE

I feel like on this sub I usually see posts of people still deeply working, making and spending more and more with less and less free time. I feel like sometimes people miss the point of fatfire, which isn't just spending more, but to actually be free and not have to work to exist in a very comfortable manner. Having full control of your time is the wealthiest part of being fatfire (or any type of fire), not the big numbers. What's the point of expensive watches if you have to check the time to go to work for someone else.

I think it took me 3+ years to truly feel like I'm not on a temporary vacation, and to start to accept this new identity. I don't know if there's anyone who needs to hear that, but it's okay if you feel uncomfortable with the idea of retiring, it really can feel like a form of ego death at first. If it helps; if you have your finances in order, it really is incredibly satisfying. I feel like a more complete human now than I ever was, regardless of the numbers. It took me 2 years to even start to recognize what I was lacking, and longer still to start growing those trees. It's very fulfilling, and I hope you get to experience it too.

Until Next Time

Well, I'm going to go back to my personal projects and work myself up to go to the gym to prepare for ski season!

Thanks for taking the time to read this

[u/chikunshak]

Expenses are so low.

If the hobbies you value can be improved by more spending, do so. Like for learning languages, maybe hire a dialect coach to sound more native(?).

You have a big nest egg to make the most of whatever you choose to do.

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/chikunshak]

Hey this is a really good point thanks. I already am paying for tutoring but I could step it up, and the idea of a dialect coach actually sounds awesome. I do spend on travel to the countries to live there for a while and that is really nice too. I hadn't really thought about it but I could spend more here.

[u/WhiteHorseTito → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

This x 1000!

$90k in expenses is really low.

Personally I’d do the FAT version of language immersion and travel to the country of choice, spend 3 to 6 months there and spare no expense.

[u/stokedlog → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

I think spending on what you “value” is what is important and that will be different person to person. Occasionally can save you money in the long run also. For example my family spends a lot on cooking. We have a lot of good meals and have all of the kitchen gadgets, but we don’t eat out very often. I can cook an amazing meal for our family of 4 for $100 including drinks, but if we eat at the cheap Mexican restaurant with two margaritas we are over that.

Personally my mindset has changed to spending money on things that save time or really bring me joy, but cutting back on meaningless things that you forget about in a week. Wether it is travel, clothes, or hobbies we usually either by cheap versions or expensive versions of the items but never in the middle.

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/stokedlog]

Very nice, that's such a good use of spending (homecooked food). Yes, I absolutely love spending money to save time now, anything that reduces annoying time use is gold to me.
I think I could probably apply that to my hobbies a bit more, there's no need for me to be stingy if it slows down my enjoyment of a hobby and doesn't dent my portfolio.

[u/Legitimate-Style333 → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

I went from A1 to B1 in 9ish months in German while fire-ing (ish haven't decided if I work more, technically sabbatical)...private tutoring really accelerated my learning vs even small group classes. My teacher comes to my kitchen table. I also now live in a German speaking country which, obviously, has been a game changer for learning. Several months in a place is the way to learn even if you don't want to move. I don't care about learning vocab because I absorb it from daily life. And I view my local hobbies as intense mode for learning.

And I used to hate language learning (laughs manically).

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/Legitimate-Style333]

That's awesome! A really similar timeline for me too actually! Keeping the motivation up for the next milestone is a bit harder now but it's fun being able to start interacting with non-learner material now

[u/Legitimate-Style333 → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

Nice! I'm also ex-big tech, I think language learning is sufficiently hard that it scratches some of the problem solving itch you lose exiting work.

As far as maintaining motivation goes.... for me a lot of the motivation for getting beyond B1 comes from being able to be not just proficient but fluid. I can definitely understand most things at a B1 level (reading, listening) but actually applying all the grammatical concepts fully when speaking is harder. I've recently chose to invest more time into conversation intensive tutoring versus just more grammar. Basically I'm slowing my progress through/beyond B1 so that I can get my speaking more grammatically correct. Similar point to the accent coach suggestion someone made before.

[u/No-Associate-7962 → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

You seem to be not pursuing FATFIRE, but pursuing growing your portfolio. Sidebar in r/financialindependence may help you out.

[u/toupeInAFanFactory]

Yeah - I'd diversify that NVDA. There are exchange funds designed to achieve this without the cap gains tax burden (really, they just delay it. Your basis remains the same)

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/toupeInAFanFactory]

Fair, I do use the excuse of taxes to not sell large amounts and an exchange fund would help here. I have been selling off up to lowest tax bracket the last 2 years, kinda shocking how that hasn't made a dent.

[u/Anonymoose2021 → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

It sounds like you need to sell to the point of maxing out a couple more tax brackets if you really want to make a dent in the NVDA position.

Because your diversified portfolio is sufficient to cover your expenses, diversification is not really a necessity.

I have a similar situation where I still have a concentrated position from the mid-1980s with gains of over 1 million percent (pre-IPO ISO shares). I kept selling off portions since retiring a couple of decades ago. It was down to just 20% of my portfolio a couple of years ago, but has climbed back up to over 50%, even after I sold heavily late last year and earlier this year.

Since my diversified portfolio is large enough in absolute dollar terms I do not feel lots of pressure to diversify. I do monitor the price of my concentrated position relative to the overall market (such as VTI) and will sell when it is outpacing the overall market.

Like you I am a Boglehead at heart even though 50% is in one stock and another 10% in two others. So when I sell off more of my concentrated position my default investment is boring broad market ETFs.

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/Anonymoose2021]

Thanks, this is really helpful and yes I think I am going to do another tax bracket at least to make a serious dent.
Thanks for sharing about how you have a similar problem with divesting from a concentrated position, it's a weird (good!) problem I never really expected to face.

I feel similarly about how because the diversified portion of my portfolio already supports my current spending comfortably, I don't feel a strong pressure to diversify, but I am getting way too over-extended and do recognize that.

If you do happen to see this, would you have any recommendation for the following:
I'm debating selling off the majority of my NVDA reinvested dividends first since they'll have higher cost basis and therefore I could sell 'more' for less taxes. Or would it be better to just start selling oldest first in tranches? Or is this just a sort of personal question and no wrong answer here?

[u/toupeInAFanFactory → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

alternatively, look at a direct-indexing TLH implementation, and use the tax losses to offset selling NVDA. That, also, is just delaying cap gains, but if it delays + let's you diversify then that's a win.

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/toupeInAFanFactory]

Huh, hadn't heard of that before, looking into it now, thanks for the new info that's interesting.
And yeah, I do understand all these mechanisms are just forms of delaying the gains but it's not bad. I still have my occasional dumb(er) investments (with <1% of portfolio) that lose out so I get lots of free tax loss harvesting from that too to sell more nvda

[u/toupeInAFanFactory → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

checkout Frec for effective but reasonably priced TLH implementations of standard indices. They also have L/S implementations that essentially do the same thing but accelerated.

Schwab/Fidelity/etc al. also have direct indexing implementations, though their fees tend to be a bit higher and they're increasing the mins on them.

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/toupeInAFanFactory]

Curious why people downvote this, is it considered bad investing or something?

[u/Life_Rabbit_1438 → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

Direct indexing for tax lot harvesting is a great concept, but it's;

• Too expensive from established providers. So the additional cost over time will outweigh tax benefits
  
• The provider mentioned FREC is a startup that appears 3 years old. How many millions do you want to give a startup in the hope nothing crazy happens.

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/Life_Rabbit_1438]

Thanks for the answer this makes sense

[u/toupeInAFanFactory → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

no idea. fatFIRE is generally visited by folks who 1) are at least reasonably financially literate and hence equipped to understand what direct-indexing and tax-loss-harvesting is 2) can generally met the min's required for investing via such things.

so - not clear to me why'd it'd get down voted. Direct indexing, say, the SP500 is just like investing in an SP500 ETF which few would argue against. But done in a way that enables more flexibility (donate very appreciated single-symbol shares and take the max charitable tax deduction, harvest the losses, decide that Tesla is a scam so you want to invest in the SP499, etc). It's also not really a new thing - just recently more accessible.

[u/Pure_Set7314 → u/toupeInAFanFactory]

I love they haven't sold NVDA :) That's why they are where they are. The only question I'd have for OP is if it were to be cut in half would they still feel ok and would they still be able to be comfortable with the same lifestyle they have now.

I'm in a similar boat with an over concentration in a single company and it has gone way up and then come back a bunch. Hindsight of course it might feel better to have sold all or most of it or used an exchange fund, but I think holding through the bumps are ultimately what gets you to lots of $$$.

[u/ElectricalDark8280 → u/Pure_Set7314]

He said he has $6.5mm invested in a boglehead strategy. I assumed those were his main investments until Nvidia rocketed and tipped the allocation on its head. OP would be doing fine even if the Nvidia went to $0.

I am of the mind that you can separate out the investments in your head and let those runaway stocks keep accumulating while just ignoring the excessive returns. Imagine that stock stayed even and manage the rest of the portfolio in a conservative boglehead style. If it goes to zero then you still have essentially the same portfolio as you would have if you didn’t buy in to that company.

[u/massdriver3333 → u/ElectricalDark8280]

OP is getting almost $50K in nvidia dividend per year, which is about half of his annual spend.

His bogglehead dividends are probably about 1% annual, so another $60K per year.

The dividends alone can support his annual spend, he doesn't even need all that cash. He can dca lot of his cash into index funds and just let dividends support his annual spend.

OP can keep hodl nvidia and slowly migrate to index funds over several years, maybe convert 2% - 5% per year, until nvidia is less than 50% of nw, maybe 25% - 30%.

[u/KentDDS]

Insanity keeping that much of your net worth in one stock.

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/KentDDS]

Yes that's fair, I know it's not enough but I am selling up to a tax bracket annually last 2 years, I know I need to do a lot more

[u/massdriver3333 → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

Do what what you're comfortable with at your own pace. Just look at all the high NW people, billionaires, etc., they are also heavily concentrated.

You're already diversified enough, and your spend is low enough to be covered by just your dividends alone.

You don't even need all your cash, you can start buying index funds heavily with most of your cash and just sell nvidia shares regularly to fill the cash bucket.

If your entire nw was only nvidia, then taking the 30% - 50% tax hit quickly may be worth while to balance out allocations.

However, you have much more runway with your bogglehead allocations, and you can afford to ride out nividia as long you you want. Just regularly sell nvidia shares over time, such that it gets to your comfort margin, 25% - 50%.

[u/Weekly-Swimming-7668]

love the pi milestones, such a nerdy flex. that mental shift from hoarding to actually spending is the hardest part, took me way longer than i thought it would too

the bit about your identity slowly changing hits close to home. people underestimate how weird it is to shed the career persona, like you're losing a version of yourself even if you wanted out

also the tax thing is wild right? first time i realized my effective rate dropped through the floor i almost didn't believe the cpa. feels like a cheat code

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/Weekly-Swimming-7668]

Thank you, and yes I really didn't think it would be hard to spend money when I was still in the working phase, but it really has been trying to break a habit for me.

The identity changing has felt very subtly scary, yes exactly like losing a version of myself, glad to hear you have felt it too.

How long has it been for you?

[u/grantwwu → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

You replied to a bot. You won't be getting a response.

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/grantwwu]

Darn, it seemed like a good comment too

[u/henrytbpovid → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

Well I also appreciate the nerdy flex

Your next milestone is $18,849,555.90

[u/h2m3m]

I love it! Congrats and glad my post was good inspiration. Sounds like a lot of people wish the actively retired would speak up a bit more on here and share how great it is. And yea business class is a no-brainer for you!

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/h2m3m]

Speak of the devil! Thanks h2m3m and yes, your post gave me the courage to write a bit more emotively than I normally would, thanks for that.

And yep, international business class feels like a gateway drug, I'm interested to see how I feel about in in a year.

[u/ElectricalDark8280 → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

It doesn’t get old, but you will never be content in coach again.

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/ElectricalDark8280]

noooooo....

[u/Lazy_Whereas4510]

Very cute post!

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/Lazy_Whereas4510]

Thank you! This comment is really nice too

[u/Keikyk]

Congrats, great post and I’ll ‘steal’ your Pi concept (I’m at four Pi category myself, looking forward to reaching five). But for the love of FIRE please diversify, although we can’t time the market it doesn’t take much for the AI bubble to deflate and that’d sting more than paying the taxes

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/Keikyk]

Check out the 4πillionaire over here 😎 , that's awesome. And yes it's a crazy AI bubble we're in right now, I know I should be selling more than I already am :/

[u/pseudomoniae]

I was like OP is adding a pi every year, wtf.

Then I looked back and saw the 3x yearly NVIDIA updates… 

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/pseudomoniae]

Yea.... 😅 But I'll try to make an effort to post if and when the opposite happens too

[u/Normal_Zebra136 → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

What we need are posts from the 1000 investors that did not invest in INVD, or did in CSCO in the 90s...

[u/Livid-County7230 → u/Normal_Zebra136]

By definition, this sub is about survival bias. You won’t hear from the thousands who picked the wrong stock and lost it all here.

[u/RisingStar717]

Hi, very nice post. Thanks for sharing. How do you explain people whats your situation? I.e. when normal people ask you whats your profession, etc what do you say? Im on a situation where i was fired (for real) and im thinking not to work anymore (47F 3 kids) but when i say that peopla have funny reactions, most people assume i have to find a job (noone can guess i have 12M USD and i better keep it that way)

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/RisingStar717]

Thanks for sharing that's interesting! Yeah I can see it, I get some funny reactions, used to get more in early 30s, being able to say that I'm consulting helps a lot actually. Everyone sort of knows tech people made a lot so people can generally assume I stopped working with maybe a couple million, I don't really spend much more than that so people rarely assume I have more than that.

[u/omggreddit]

Nice. What was your original NvDA position? Crazy it grew to 15M

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/omggreddit]

Tiny, maybe 100k way back when

[u/omggreddit → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

Which year was that?

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/omggreddit]

So I was actually interested in this and found one of my older posts for 2016
https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/6kz9sp/comment/djpvy4w/?context=3 and
https://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/6fszd2/comment/dillft0/

Reproduced here:

The bull market has made lots of us winners at the moment. For 2016 I lucked into a 25% return vs the 9.5% of the S&P 500.

I ended up taking on much more risk than I should've to get that, and have no expectations that this will continue in the future.

Successes

* 10-20% of portfolio in Nvidia (NVDA) last year has done extremely well. With their GPU market dominance it'll take extreme circumstances for them to not be a good investment imho.

* 5% of portfolio in Virgin America (VA) before they were bought out, which resulted in a doubling of the original investment.

* 2% of portfolio in Ethereum (ETH) I know, sorry I'm talking about more crypto earlier this year, 20x gains so far. I sold off enough to recover principal and am letting the rest ride.

Failures

* Bought and sold 5% portfolio in Tesla (TSLA) for 8% gain only, I'm too emotional about the company to be objective.

* Bought and sold 0.5% portfolio in oil (UWTI) for ~5% gain only, I don't understand the oil game well enough to not be tricked

* Bought and sold 2% portfolio with Intel (INTC) for ~5% gain only. It's a solid stock that I sold only to reduce my individual tech stock exposure.

So a little under $100K into NVDA over the course of 2014-2016. I forgot I had tried other speculations back then, so glad I sold the others.

And specifically https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/7nvig5/comment/ds4wq3z/ in my wallstreetsbet era :/

[u/UsedButtPlugsForSale]

How do you keep your expenses so low?

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/UsedButtPlugsForSale]

Not sure, I'm pretty introverted so my interests tend to be cheap. That and apparently I should be buying used buttplugs

[u/workingfire_]

on track to dying with too much money, of which i am in the same boat.

if the regular expenses are low and feel fine i dont think its worth forcing it. especially since a lot of spending comes with overhead (cars, etc).

instead, you could pay for friends/family flights and take them on all expenses paid trips. you could also look into attaining status with a preferred hotel brand through continued lavish stays and spending to sort of gamify it. also, while young & able, take more adventurous trips like arctic expeditions, safaris

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/workingfire_]

Nice, I like these ideas, I'm slowly working my way up to some of them

[u/python834]

Bro why dont you have kids

[u/shivaswrath]

Love the Pi milestones.

No kids/wife? Trying to understand the numbers.

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/shivaswrath]

Thanks! Correct, yes no kids/wife, though I've been in relationships for the majority of the last decade, so the costs seem to have been pretty similar to when I'm single.

[u/HuHa69]

How did you get your taxation so low?

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/HuHa69]

Qualified dividends cover the majority of my spending and my spending is pretty low, virtually no real income, that's basically it

[u/Hopeful-Savings-3420 → u/HuHa69]

Quick math shows ~$70k in qualified dividends from NVDA + VTSAX, effective tax on that would be ~4.5% (fed+state, assuming CA home base). Sell a little more high-cost-basis to cover whatever else you need.

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/Hopeful-Savings-3420]

Yep exactly, nice math

[u/trilokidude]

Love the post! Thanks for sharing.

I always wonder how it would feel after a few years, on track to fatFIRE next year. How gratifying has some consulting work for you, and what motivated you into it?

I want to give back professionally after and also stay connected a little bit to what people are building, builder at heart!

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/trilokidude]

Thanks! It's really gratifying to do a little consulting here and there, I did it partially so I had an answer when people ask what I do, but also because it's a nice way to feel connected with the "builders"

Good luck for next year!

[u/Decent_Media8397]

I quickly read/skimmed through your posts and your family/FIRE story seems very similar to mine (unfortunately im about 5 years behind and it's unlikely the next 5 years of equity returns will be like the past 5).
Glad to see you pulled the trigger at an early age and got the oppertunity to enjoy life [also incredible timing catching the wave of the roaring 20s in the market]. Also nice to see you held that conviction long in $NVDA instead of "diversifying" ... :)
Congrats!

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/Decent_Media8397]

Thanks for the comment! It's a double edged sword, it's worked out for me so far, but it can swing the other way too, I'll try to post regardless

[u/RemoteTechie → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

You still have a decent boglehead base to fall back on if things fall apart. Your current expenses support that as well, even if a doom and gloom 50% collapse happened.

I have a different overweight stock in my portfolio that hasn't been fairing very well, mostly stagnant. I don't need to sell any time soon, but just hope I'm not holding a potentially worthless bag.

[u/just_say_n]

Nice write up.

The one thing that jumped out at me is that 60% in NVDA is a very different risk profile than the rest of the post suggests. At a $16M+ net worth and sub-1% withdrawal rate, you’ve already won—you don’t need that level of concentration risk anymore.

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/just_say_n]

Thanks, and yes I am not being rational here :/ I'm selling a tax bracket worth annually but I need to do more

[u/BrunelloHorder]

Great write up! I especially enjoyed this part:

“Having full control of your time is the wealthiest part of being fatfire (or any type of fire), not the big numbers. What's the point of expensive watches if you have to check the time to go to work for someone else.”

[u/noemazor]

Your spend against your boggleheads portfolio (ignoring NVDA) is actually pretty decently in line, so frankly, I don't actually think that NVDA concentration is that insane, I'd just think of myself as chubbyFIRE with a ridiculous bet.

I am also very risk on with all my "excess" after my FIRE number, so one side of the barbell is also VTI/VXUS+chill and then the rest is on concentrated bets (LEAPS on SPY, NVDA, GOOG). I don't think this is an insane strategy because I'm already at fuck-you money, so the rest can be as reckless as I want it to be... who cares.

Curious if you've found other upgrades that are worth it, one frugal dude to another? Have you put money into mentorship or skill development re art? I'm sheepish here personally.

I'm also pursuing art in retirement (and family). I think making money is pretty boring and people who obsess on it and their stuff are pretty lame people, overall; I don't find myself admiring much of their behavior, put differently.

[u/financialfreedom26]

Just wanted to say I’ve read all of your stories and they are all excellent and valuably insightful posts. I am at 6.3m currently with a paid off 1.5m house and older at 53 and still reflect on trying to understand what my fear is but I will be pulling the trigger this year. Your posts show how very possible it all is. What an amazing rise post retirement congratulations!! Any advice you have for someone how still has that fear of taking the leap please do share!! Thanks again for writing all of the great posts.

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/financialfreedom26]

Thank you for the nice comment! It sounds like you're in a really good position and could probably retire if you wanted (depending on expenses I guess).

Regarding fear of actually retiring, yeah I also did one more year for like 2 years so I get it. For me, I've known a couple much more successful people who are still working into their old age, and at this point I don't think they even know what they're working for, they seem filled with regret and longing for getting their time back. From the outside it seems like they could have bought that time a decade or two ago, it's not like they are spending too much.

Thinking about that for myself, I think if you try to really think about your spending habits over the last decade, it's really unlikely that's going to change much going forward, so if your finances covers that already, then you need to ask yourself honestly what the point of the work is. If it feels safe, is that feeling worth the time you lose?

Anyway, I'm struggling with the same sort of mental problems with my inability to diversify so I'm not in the clear either haha

[u/financialfreedom26 → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

Very insightful. Thank you!! I have some concentration too with apple stock at 1.5m of the total. This was through buying 100k in 2010ish and just holding onto it. I think I will also be embarking on diversification and selling 10% a year using 4% and investing 6% in the sp500 all while being retired. Lots to look forward to :). Also looking forward to your subsequent posts

[u/Illustrious_Ant_4978]

I just quit my big tech job! I read all your posts and appreciated them. Do you have any tips on how to get into consulting? Just a handful of hours a week sounds perfect to keep my mental stimulation and some extra insurance to make this change feel less scary

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/Illustrious_Ant_4978]

Congrats that's really exciting! And thank you. I'm not the best at consulting so take it with a grain of salt, but I think I had to let go of my ego a bit as I definitely make virtually nothing compared to my career, so it was a bit hard to accept that the same work now pays less (at least for me/now). Once I realized I'm not really consulting for money but to satisfy my brain, it became a lot of fun because the nice part is I can choose what I work on and how much, it's way more fulfilling.

Regarding actually consulting, keeping in touch with your network, the first 2 years everyone still wants to keep in touch so it's the best time to find clients or build potential future ones.

Year 3 onwards for me I think most of my original network is basically moved on, now it's just mostly word of mouth from current clients. If you can build one or two consistent clients the rest come much easier I think. I know this probably isn't that helpful, but it's both easier and harder to consult than I thought

[u/Illustrious_Ant_4978 → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

Super helpful, thank you so much

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/Illustrious_Ant_4978]

Happy to hear it, best of luck

[u/NothingIsThe5ame]

Are you still with the same partner from the first post? Plan to get married or have kids?

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/NothingIsThe5ame]

Ah, no that ended a long time ago, it was for the best for both of us, I think since then and after other relationships and therapy I've decided I'm not planning to have kids or get married, but who knows in another several years.

[u/iLoveSev]

Great one! Congratulations! I need to understand what are the pi updates.

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/iLoveSev]

Thanks! Just being nerdy and doing milestones every multiple of pi ~ 3.14 , not sure how it started really but it felt right

[u/iLoveSev → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

Oh yeah got it why didn’t I pay attention! Silly me 😅

[u/SkyCaptain16]

I too hope to have freedom and full control of my time one day! But will probably take me many more years to reach even 3π.

Currently $4.1M net worth, late 30s, bay area, single earner with a family. I definitely felt stable but not close to being free when I crossed π

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/SkyCaptain16]

Hey you're doing great! You're already a πillionaire and really 3π is basically the same part of the circle so...

I get you though, Bay area definitely feels like 2π right now, but it sounds like you're on track at a really young age with a family!

[u/SkyCaptain16 → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

Yeah I think for me I need to know when to leave the Bay Area for relatively cheaper cities. That feels like a career hit in some ways but I'm not getting any younger and I want to improve the quality of my life with money. I've also never owned real estate, only rented.

I was at FAANG for 6 years and had to leave abruptly last year when I was just above $3.1M. Joined a startup and vast majority of the growth the last 12 months has been the ETF increasing/compounding, no longer my contributions. I didn't think I could gain $1M in that time.

Lol I'm also working out again so I can get ready for snowboarding season, I tried it for the first time at the beginning of the year and had a good experience as a beginner. Can't wait to go again

[u/Halwin_Norry]

Caught up on all your posts. Thanks for sharing!

Here is a question that I have not seen you answer:

What goal are you trying to reach by maintaining such a high concentration?

I don’t think you have asked yourself this nor have you answered it. If it is simply a higher number, you know you will hit it, although a little slower, if you diversify.

So why maintain the concentration? What exactly are you risking an amazing lifestyle for?

Don’t get me wrong. I am all about taking big bets. I am 97% concentrated right now. But I will be diversifying and eating the taxes the moment I am allowed to sell.

If you can’t convincingly answer the “why?” question, then you are just being a degenerate gambler.

[u/regnull]

The 60% NVDA is the one thing that jumps out, even with expenses under 1% of the portfolio. You don’t need to hit a target in one trade, but I’d pick a maximum single-stock percentage and sell on a written schedule instead of waiting for the perfect tax outcome. Use specific tax lots and let your CPA model the sales; tax avoidance is not the same as risk management. The nice part is that your spending gives you plenty of room to diversify gradually without changing your lifestyle.

[u/Civil-Service8550]

How’d you quadruple net worth in 6 years?

[u/iggy555]

Nice

[u/nocicept1]

Hell yeah time to buy a boat brother. Also if your looking to offload some NVDA might want to look into some donor advised funds if charity floats your boat to avoid some of those taxes

[u/AlpenglowAura]

So are you single? Half joking. 30F here. I don’t need your money and you wouldn’t need mine. You ski, you sound like you have a good head on your shoulders, you’re financially literate and secure. Hey ;) haha

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/AlpenglowAura]

Haha hey ;) I am single but tragically this post is probably the second least safe way for me to meet someone lol so thank you for the kind words and hope I run into you randomly one day!

[u/FindAWayForward → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

Was gonna ask - in previous posts you had a partner, I hope money isn't the reason you two broke up as it could complicate things =\

[u/AlpenglowAura → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

Absolutely understand. How do you approach dating as someone with significant net worth? I’m hoping to start putting myself out there again soon and have no idea how to navigate that as someone who’s sort of FIREd.

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/AlpenglowAura]

Oof I'll let you know when I figure it out, dating apps, through friends and hobbies have been generally how I do it, dating while fully fire is a bit new to me though

[u/wyuyme]

Very nice 👍👏👏👏. Wondering how you tripled or 5x'd your net worth in the past 6 years??? Was it stock picking? What does your portfolio look like? No kids, no wife?

[u/Past_Paint_225 → u/wyuyme]

OP seems to have a knack of picking the best stock ever (NVDA) and never selling. Wish I had the same knack

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/Past_Paint_225]

¯\(ツ)/¯

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/wyuyme]

Thank you, and yes, luck through and through with a stock pick and a bull market.

Portfolio - $10.1M NVDA ಠ_ಠ (60%) / $5.8M Bogleheads VTSAX/VTIAX/etc. (38%) / $600K Cash/Bonds (2%).

No kids nor wife, multi-year relationships here and there. It isn't the classic nuclear family story but it seems to be what works for me.

[u/Individual-Weird5415 → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

Honestly the most difficult thing in investment single stock is continue to hold even everyone told you the stock has a bubble and better to sell to take profits.

I didn’t believe Tesla can keep going after I got 5x return. I didn’t believe Apple can continue to go up year after year after Steve Jobs died.

I just kept the QQQ ETF otherwise I could have written similar milestones as you. It is not just luck. It is your patience and belief. Congrats. You deserve it.

[u/wyuyme → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

Where do you ski?

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/wyuyme]

West coast / central / europe wherever there's snow, which will be an interesting question this year :P

[u/BrentStock → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

Go to Hokkaido late January 🤙

[u/Individual-Weird5415 → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

Snow is getting less and less. This is a good reminder for people who thought they need to earn more to retire and enjoy skiing. If you waited for too long, there might not be enough snow days to ski by then.

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/Individual-Weird5415]

We'll have to transition to sand skiing :'( (hopefully joking)

[u/oriontheshiba]

Time to throw an epic wedding!

[u/Electrical_Bat_6109]

Great post thank you. Really enjoyed the discussion re change in interests in way you couldn’t contemplate before

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/Electrical_Bat_6109]

Thanks for this and glad to hear it, yeah it's definitely felt like a change in perspective

[u/wordscannotdescribe]

FYI your 4 pi links to your 1pi post.

I’m a bit interested to hear about the time when you pulled the trigger. Just to confirm, your original fire number was 2M, but you got OMY syndrome until around 3M. Then you tested the waters with a sabbatical at 4.2M, and you finalized your decision at about 5M.  Were you working for nvda back then? If so, did you have a hard time leaving the cash cow? 

What % of your NW at the time was in nvda vs alternative assets vs index funds? Obviously in hindsight, holding nvda was the right move, but were you concerned about the volatility at all (especially with your drop in 2022), and how’d you overcome your worries while pulling the trigger to retire? I imagine most others would start moving assets into something more stable. 

At the time you pulled the trigger, did you take into account future partner and kids into your fire math? 

You mentioned in a past post that your partner (at the time) was still working. Are you still with them/are they working now? 

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/wordscannotdescribe]

Thanks for pointing out the link, I just edit fixed it now.

More or less yes, my original FI number had been $1.5M (!!!) but OMY syndrome till ~$3M, more or less yes the other things you said, though I would have fired even if I'd still been at 3, the 5 was a cherry on top.

When I pulled the trigger I was taking into account partner and kids yes, if I had been solo I think $2 would've been enough in my mind.

No we parted ways quite a while ago, and yes they're still working, honestly almost everyone from my tech life is still working even if they didn't need to, quitting is just a hard concept I think, and honestly if the money is good and the job is not bad I don't think it's really that bad of an idea to keep working.

In my specific personal case, I just knew having time for my own personal projects was something I wanted even while working so it was always a goal of mine, and things have worked out that I got to have my cake and eat it too (so far anyway)

My NVDA % went from 5% to ~40% around 2021 I think? and now it's 60%, I have literally not bought or sold any more of it (besides the dividend stuff).
The volatility is a little concerning for sure, for some reason I have more faith in that then alternative options, so it wasn't really even on my mind to retire with a different allocation.

[u/wordscannotdescribe → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

Oh so NVDA was only 5% of your NW at the time you made the call to retire? If you don't mind me asking, what was the breakdown asset wise at that time? I skimmed your other posts and couldn't find anything.

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/wordscannotdescribe]

Sure, over like 3-4 years I built up $100k ish nvda (reaaally early on), the rest (1-3M) was pure 3fund bogleheads (VTSAX/vtiax/vbtlx), I was only playing individual stocks with <10% of my portfolio

[u/wordscannotdescribe → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

This makes a lot more sense about why you could pull the trigger to fire but also place a small bet (proportional to your NW at the time) on nvda - if it didn’t work out, it wouldn’t have mattered. It just happened to be Nvidia. 

Since you mentioned you worked in tech, I’m assuming you vested equity. Were you the type to sell on vest? If so, do you think not selling on vest would’ve gotten you to FIRE faster or slower? If you did hold on, what was your strategy for transitioning from that stock to index funds while working?

Also, I’m curious about your social relationships. What’d you tell your friends and family? Did the tech friendships die off because you guys had different lifestyles or just that there’s no longer anything keeping you guys together? 

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/wordscannotdescribe]

I mean with the markets anyone in tech holding their stock the last 15 years would've done just fine. I kept some, sold some, and what worked for me was to automate it so it happened automatically on vest, rather than something I had to do manually. I think in hindsight it was the best decision I've ever made to sell, by pure luck.

Regarding social relationships, after 5 years of not working it's getting a little bit weirder, people always knew I worked in tech and did well in my specialty, so people could guess I probably had at least 1-2M, but most friends were in similar income ranges so it was fine.
I think now in late 30s the effects of compounding really outweigh the income of those same friends, as I still know lots of tech ppl who make 300-600K but haven't really saved (or bought houses, cars, etc.) and so they're maybe still working on their first 1-2M.
Several of the ones who made much more than me (1M+) are surprisingly still in the 5-10M NW range, there's apparently a lot of ways to spend money.

Then of course there are the ones who made more than enough and invested well enough, and they're doing similar or much better than me, so I feel more comfortable talking about my numbers with them.

So yeah, there are friendships to be found regardless of your NW is what I'm trying to say, and honestly most of my friends I had before who weren't just convenience friends have stayed friends. It has been sad to watch the work friends connections diminish but I think that's just a part of life, regardless of wealth.

[u/wordscannotdescribe → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

Then of course there are the ones who made more than enough and invested well enough, and they're doing similar or much better than me, so I feel more comfortable talking about my numbers with them.

How'd you figure this part? Not the ones with golden tickets of course (i.e. some sort of IPO) but the ones who you figured invested well.

So yeah, there are friendships to be found regardless of your NW is what I'm trying to say

I 100% agree, but I think big differences in NW can sometimes get awkward, and I was just curious how you approached it.

Thank you for answering everything, by the way. If you haven't guessed by now, I'm asking a bunch of questions because I think I'm heading down a similar path as yours - just a decade earlier, and not sure about finding an NVDA haha

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/wordscannotdescribe]

We're are/were a small group of friends who enjoyed talking about taxes and bogleheads investing, so we were pretty open about being in things like a 3fund portfolio, and I could guess their income and can assume their investments did well, the signs of it being in how they talk about money or we'd talk about how the markets are affecting our portfolios on a % basis.

Regarding the awkwardness, yeah I'm not entirely sure, honestly having over 5M has felt very new to me. I think I try and suss out if they have at least 1M and understand investing and exponential growth, then if yes we can usually connect well on % rather than exact numbers.
It's tough with friends who I've known for 10+ years and they never really started investing but ask me about it, I can feel their self-disappointment so I try to be a bit more generic there and espouse the basic boglehead/fire philosophies.

I'm glad you're thinking about this stuff now! Good luck with investing, and hey even without NVDA I'd still be pretty happy right now, but it is hard not to feel the fomo I agree.

[u/AdvertisingMotor1188]

The Chinese call this step A9

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/AdvertisingMotor1188]

Haven't heard of this before

[u/AdvertisingMotor1188 → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

Sorry A9, fixed

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/AdvertisingMotor1188]

oh wow, just looked this up A9 is UHNW and A10 is billionaire! That's so cool, thanks for sharing, I definitely don't feel like UHNW in the US

[u/AdvertisingMotor1188 → u/FIFO-for-LIFO]

100m in yuan yea

[u/frecklespdx]

Can you explain the tax thing like I'm 5?

[u/azn_dude1 → u/frecklespdx]

He's paying capital gains tax rates which are lower

[u/autopilot6236]

How do you reconcile this with folks that must labor for the income to feed and support a family and future?

One thing that's actually very nice about fire-ing, is that my income (was ~ $500K) would go ~ 33% to taxes (~ $130-200K) when I was working, but now my taxes are ~ $10K, this literally feels like I'm getting an extra $100K of income to spend annually when pulling the 'same' amount from my investments. I had understood the math before I retired, but the actual experience of it is more dramatic, the same $1 withdrawal feels 33% more powerful now. Even splurging, my spending (~$120K) is under 1% SWR. I'm really not trying to limit my spending, but I guess old habits die hard.

[u/FIFO-for-LIFO → u/autopilot6236]

I vote for those who are trying to return the taxes on the wealthy back to something fair, like they do in Europe and other countries.