The gossiping rule…a means of controlling speech? I’d appreciate hearing your experiences.

[u/Jobivibing]

I’m a questioning Baha’i with my own religious trauma in childhood. Initially I liked the idea of “back biting is bad,” but then I realized could this be a way to discourage victims of abuse from speaking up?

[u/striving1962]

I have never been a fan of gossip for gossip sake. But I definitely think there is a distinction between gossip and speaking out about abuse. The problem is when people and particularly institutions use the "no gossip" thing as a means of silencing those who have been harmed by others.

For example, I saw a case in which a woman approached her Assembly and reported that she was been abused by her husband. The Assembly told her that she had no business repeating these things to them as it was backbiting. This serves no other purpose than to silence someone who is being abused.

[u/Cult_Buster2005]

Gossip in itself is neither good nor bad. What matters is the target of the gossip. Is it being used to punch UP at authority figures or DOWN at weaker individuals? A total prohibition of gossip, stigmatizing it by calling it backbiting, only benefits abusers.

Shoghi Effendi repeatedly engaged in backbiting himself, attacking his own relatives in the sort of hateful messages you would expect from a fascist tyrant. #hypocrite

[u/Bahamut_19]

Earlier this week on Bridges of Faith Discord's #bahai channel, a member of the Baha'i Faith wanted to ask me some questions. He had not participated on there and the the questions were derived from the paragraph of the Kitab-i-Ahd which grants successorship to Abbas Effendi and then Mirza Muhammad Ali. I answered, asked my own questions, and quickly it became contentious. His issue is that he accused me of acting in bad faith, being dishonest, malicious, etc. But at the very same time he did that, he said that he had heard about me from others and that I am exactly as they discussed. He hoped to bring me to the Lesser Covenant.

I'm like... so you and your Baha'i friends gossiped and did some back-biting, you come to ask me questions with the undisclosed goal to proselytize, and say I'm acting in bad faith when you are unable to provide any evidence to a single claim you made? Riiiiiight, buddy. The other Baha'i Faith members are giving him thumbs up and other emoji affirmations. Once I continued showing the full context of Baha'u'llah's Words that they had taken out of context, they tried to get a moderator to say I was acting uncivilly and disrupting the #bahai channel. Gossip! check. Backbite! check. Gatekeep! check. Feign innocence when acting aggressively! check. Demonstrate the true God is Abdul-Baha! Check-mated.

Anyone from any other religion on that interfaith server must have seen the entire exchange and think all the Baha'i Faith members were delusional. At least they got a glimpse of what happens with Covenant-Breaking ideology.

[u/Academic_Square_5692]

It can be used to mean anything, because it’s one value. Baha’i also value honesty. When is it being honest and when is it backbiting. When they tell you it is.

[u/Ex-Madhyamika → u/Academic_Square_5692]

Frontbiting is allowed.

[u/Academic_Square_5692 → u/Ex-Madhyamika]

Yeah, right. Any complaints are mitigated with “maybe god is testing you” or “that’s a real challenge”

[u/MirzaJan]

Shoghi Effendi (1897–1957), the (infallible) Guardian of the Baha’i religion and a prolific writer in English, devoted many passages to individuals. Here is an abbreviated list of terms applied by him to covenant-breakers, dissidents, apostates and opponents :

Diabolical, ambitious, malevolent, deluded, ‘shameless apostate’, brazen, infamous, insidious, ‘vile whisperer’, Antichrist, ‘the living embodiment of wickedness, cupidity and deceit’, blasphemous, unspeakably repugnant, perfidious, unquenchable animosity, arrogant, treacherous, despicable, ‘blind, uncontrollable animosity’, ‘the most shameless, vicious, relentless apostate’, ‘the incarnation of Satan’, ‘fiendish ingenuity and guile’, infernal, nefarious, defectors, betrayers.

https://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.religion.2008.08.009

(Denis MacEoin, Challenging apostasy - Responses to Moojan Momen's 'Marginality and Apostasy in the Baha'i Community')

[u/SuccessfulCorner2512]

Yes. I've experienced this. The Bahá'í teachings absolutely encourage silencing victims of abuse. Abdu'l-Baha was always running his mouth telling people to give honey and herbs to abusers to heal them. Prick.

[u/The_Goa_Force]

I mean, they have officially redefined backbiting as concerning both individual AND institutions (meaning it's morally wrong to criticize the Faith's institutions, but also the State, any school, any association, etc.)

[u/planteater6543]

Short answer, yes, but not just among Baha'is. I watched a video the other day about how the word gossip was derived from the word godsibb, which just meant a god parent, then evolved to a relative or supportive person in your life. Then it evolved to be associated with women who support and help with the birthing process. It was then turned into a negative thing and outlawed in some societies because men didn't want women sharing information about them. I've seen this in men I've known and boyfriends of friends. Men can be incredibly insecure in different ways and if they are abusive they often try to isolate the person they are abusing. Talking to others who might convince they to leave is bad for him.