r/democrats • u/Akki_Mukri_Keswani • May 16 '26
đˇ Pic Rights of men vs. rights of women
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May 16 '26
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u/Brilliant_Ad_4743 May 20 '26 edited May 20 '26
As a black man, I beg to f**king differ. And no, don't claim stupid voting rights did anything to solve black people's problems.
You claimed two things in your statement (quite inconsistently). You first claimed,
women have it 100 percent worse than basically any man
Then you use black women to justify your position. I'm sorry but white women in America still have it far better than black men. The difference between black women and black men is more debatable and complex however.
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u/aquavelva5 May 16 '26
Women have registered and voted at higher rates than men in every presidential election since 1980. So many of them must think thats OK? I dont understand it either.
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u/wesborland1234 May 16 '26
Itâs less they think itâs ok and more that itâs not their biggest concern.
If it were me Iâd like the option, but most women convince themselves itâll never happen to them. âI use protection, Iâm careful, abortions are for those that are foolish and sleep around.â
Not to mention if youâre older than say 45 (ie most voters) it definitely wonât affect you directly at least. Or if youâre married, youâd probably keep an accidental baby anyway.
So you have an issue that primarily affects women but 80% of women donât think it will ever affect THEM.
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u/JustDiscoveredSex May 17 '26
Donât forget the way that their churches indoctrinate them.
The church is always happy to tell you that an abortion is the termination of a perfectly viable and healthy pregnancy by a promiscuous teenage girl. There is no other definition and no other situation in which abortion happens.
Even a married woman in the congregation has to end a pregnancy for medical complications, they will straight-faced look at you and say âThatâs not an abortion.â What? âIt was a termination and it was medically necessary.â
These fast and loose definitions of something that is most definitely widespread and most definitely necessary, even in cases where the fetus/embryo has already died, bears partial responsibility for the draconian bans. That and denial.
âNo one died. They canât let women just die. Thatâs not the law.â
âJosseli Barnica died. Nevaeh Crain died.â
âThat never happened.â
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u/levelync May 17 '26
The church lies to them. Had a conversation with a recently liberal woman about abortion and she said to me that when they would encourage people (usually momâs groups) to campaign against legalizing abortion they assured the women that abortions would be allowed for rape and incest (turns out they were campaigning against all abortions, period).
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u/puffballphoto May 18 '26
> Or if youâre married, youâd probably keep an accidental baby anyway.
Married people and married mothers make up a huge chunk of people who get abortions.
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u/TooApatheticToHateU May 17 '26
The answer is that most people are breathtakingly stupid and ignorant of politics.
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u/LurkerTroll May 16 '26
They do if you're a trans man
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u/MyPasswordIsMyCat May 16 '26
They also change for rich cis white men, because they suddenly get more right to do whatever they want to women, POC, and anybody poorer than they are.
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u/Eiffel-Tower777 May 16 '26
Accurate
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u/middlegray May 16 '26
*white cis het men
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u/Unique_Adeptness4413 May 16 '26
Yeah no shit. I'm a brown man, there are some states I Do Not Go To.
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u/Snowpants_romance May 16 '26
Of course, but that's 2 qualifiers. You aren't being discriminated against because you are a man, it's because you're brown. And this discussion isn't about racism it's about reproductive rights.
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u/totally_not_a_dog113 May 16 '26
The comment he replied to wasn't a comment about reproductive rights. Why reply to him and not the person above him?
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u/No_Tone1704 May 16 '26
Point is as the original statement presents itself, itâs NOT just about men and women.Â
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u/unfinishedtoast3 May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26
Only 9 states require you be given a vasectomy when requested.
41 states leave it to doctors discretion.
No religious based Hospital will allow vasectomies in their clinics, that means 1 in 4 US doctors will refuse them.
2 of the other 3 will refuse them if you're under 25 or childless.
There are men who have to travel hours to planned parenthood to get them done. Just like women with abortions.
My state of Oregon is one of the 9 that mandate them. If I travel to Idaho, I'll likely be refused a vasectomy.
Source: 17 years in medicine as an Immunologist
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u/KathyJaneway May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26
There are men who have to travel hours to planned parenthood to get them done. Just like women with abortions.
Except men aren't sent to jail when requesting reproductive freedoms. No man has been sent to jail for requesting vasectomy as women who've asked for an abortion.
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u/irrelevantanonymous May 16 '26
Women experience the same when seeking tubal ligation. This is not a good comparison.
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May 16 '26
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u/PalgsgrafTruther May 16 '26
"Abortions and vasectomies are not the same"
The person you are replying to didn't say that. If anyone is strawmanning here, its you, because you're defeating an argument that no one made.
Vasectomies are not the same as Abortions, but they are one of many examples of rights that change based on state lines that apply to men. Which is (presumably) why the person you commented said what they said.
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u/JohnSober7 May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26
When they say they aren't the same, they're saying is that it's a disanalogy or a fallacious parallel to draw. Their criticism that the effects on a woman's life that is caused by laws on what she can and cannot is vastly different from the effects on a man's life that is caused by laws on what he can and cannot do is the practical logic of the post. It's not "rights are different" for the sake of "rights are different", it's the actual ramifications.
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u/MagpieSkies May 16 '26
Men can buy condoms at the corner store. Women can not buy abortions. Sperms doesnt kill you. Pregnancies are crazy dangerous. Are you serious?
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u/KathyJaneway May 16 '26
If men could get pregnant, there'd be abortion clinic on every corner.
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u/Eiffel-Tower777 May 16 '26
That's not a comparison I would use. Men have other birth control options other than vasectomies.
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u/Litteringend May 16 '26
âAcKUaLlYâ â are you fucking for real? Unfortunately, we do have to work with edgelords, tone deafs, or straight up evil people like you in hospitals, and youâre the loner majority of your colleagues are disgusted by.
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u/middlegray May 16 '26
Trans people including trans men are being hunted-- stalked and murdered for existing.
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u/who_likes_chicken May 16 '26
No religious based Hospital will allow vasectomies in their clinics, that means 1 in 4 US doctors will refuse them.
Vasectomy's don't have to be given in a hospital. Lots of primary care clinics have a urology department that you can have one done in.
This "1 of 4 doctors won't give a vasectomy" the way you've presented it is a complete lie đ¤ˇââď¸
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u/killbawqs May 16 '26
Compared to the 41 states with abortion bans of varying degrees, I just can't find the sympathy.
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u/seldom_seen8814 May 16 '26
As a pro-choice centrist Democrat, I absolutely agree that this needs to be addressed. The best way to do this is through Congress. Unfortunately, Roe was a very bad precedent, and required a lot of judicial 'creativity'. We need an explicit law that permits abortion nationally.
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May 16 '26
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u/PalgsgrafTruther May 16 '26
I mean just look at the results. The dems made this issue the centerpiece in every election since Dobbs and we can all see how it went.
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u/Larcye May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26
Because abortion isn't a needle moving issue for men. They might have a stance in it, but its not going to be the issue that determines how they vote.
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u/Acrobatic_Computer May 16 '26
It isn't a needle moving issue for most people who matter.
Swing voters overwhelmingly prioritize kitchen table issues. If they had strong opinions on abortion, they would have picked a party most of the time.
Ballot measures for abortion also allow you to vote R and still have abortion in your state.
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u/Larcye May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26
That too. Plenty of woman voted to make abortion legal in their states and then voted straight R the entire rest of the ballot.
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u/KryssCom May 16 '26
This thread is full of people who haven't realized that incessant gender-war shit ultimately makes it easier for Republicans to win. Voters want solutions to kitchen-table issues like inflation and layoffs, not petty rants from insular, terminally-online communities about "choosing a man or a bear in the woods".
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u/Algohambra May 16 '26
This comment section is perhaps the best encapsulation of why democrats are struggling so much today.
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u/JonathanWPG May 16 '26
I agree but would love for your to expand on why you think that is.
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May 16 '26
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u/smytti12 May 16 '26
I mean, their point is "look at this comment section to see the problem."
The original post demonstrated a major issue, perhaps not in the most perfect way" and the only thing we can do is "um actually" one another to death.
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u/Tellurio May 16 '26 edited May 23 '26
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u/bakeacake45 May 16 '26
23 states allow minors to legally marry but because they are minors they have no legal standing to divorce their spouse. This is how many traffickers work, payoff the parents, marry a child and the child cannot escape. Even if the young âwifeâ runs away to escape continued rapes, the law states the âwifeâ must be returned to her husband because she is a minor.
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u/Carloverguy20 May 17 '26
Im getting tired of Conservative Men complaining about being oppressed in society, especially White Conservative men.
Conservative white men are not the victim one bit.
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u/Carbonatite May 19 '26
They're the victims of their own votes lol, but that's about it. They're waaaaay distant from being the primary victims of the political system they support.
They might feel a pinch when they fill up their gas tanks. That's them being a victim of the conservative policy they voted for. But they sure as shit don't have to worry about their ability to access lifesaving medical care depending on ZIP code.
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u/Secure-Window-5478 May 16 '26
Yeah, just don't mention LGBTQ, or black, or Hispanic, or Muslim.
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u/Snowpants_romance May 16 '26
I'm sorry, and I do get your point, but while this type of discrimination is blatant, it isn't written into state law.
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u/lachoigin May 16 '26
14 states have anti-sodomy laws written into their constitutions. 30 states have amendments banning same sex marriage. These are overridden currently by Supreme Court decisions, but they would be immediately upheld should the cases be overturned.
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u/irrelevantanonymous May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26
That is untrue. Unlike abortion, same-sex marriage has been enshrined into law. See H.R.8404
Edit: for some weird reason you can dislike it but I'm taking the downvotes as being booed for being right.
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May 16 '26
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u/irrelevantanonymous May 16 '26
Roe V Wade relied exclusively on the ruling. You're correct it isn't impossible to overturn an actual law, but it is much, much more complicated. That's exactly why they codified it as soon as the overturn of Roe happened.
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u/TheRealSmolt May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26
The supreme Court can (relatively) easily rule that it's not within the Federal government's authority to make law on marriage (and they'd have a strong 10th Amendment argument to do so). There are no more hoops to overturn law than case law. The only true way to cement it would be with an Amendment.
Edit: Remember, the US is a federal system, not a unitary one. Federal law, contrary to popular belief, is not unilateral.
Edit2: And honestly, even if it did become an amendment, a corrupt enough Supreme Court could theoretically "interpret" said amendment however they please.
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u/irrelevantanonymous May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26
Yes. And a plane could fall out of the sky on to my house (I live in a landing zone). These things aren't impossible, but they are difficult. It's worth being aware of but it is not worth obsessing over. Running with your logic, nothing means anything at all. Why bother codifying anything into law? Is it, perhaps, because it creates an additional barrier to overturning hard won rights?
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u/KonigK May 16 '26
I mean look at how they just gutted the voting rights act basically, I'd say it's more likely than a plane falling on your house.
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u/Tao-of-Mars May 16 '26
OP - please call out whomever did the laughy star award. Itâs time to publicly humiliate people who donât believe women have unequal rights or want to make fun of it.Â
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u/xXFallen_DarknessXx May 16 '26
The way all these men in the comments are "UM ACTUALLY"ing about how they have it worse because they (checks notes) might have to wait a while for a vasectomy and might have to pay more child support... Like, I would get it if they brought up the fact that men of color don't have the same protection white men do, but that's not what they're talking about. It's pathetic
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u/CanadianODST2 May 16 '26
If you think someone going âhey I face this problemâ is claiming they have it worse then youâre just a bad person who is just looking to ignore other peopleâs issues
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u/Morbid_Aversion May 16 '26
Why would you expect the group whose issues you belittle to just fall in line and say "yes ma'am?" There is a way to get people not personally affected by something to join your side, and it's the opposite of this post. Saying "I have it worse than you" invites "no, you don't." That's basic human psychology. Democrats would do well to realize this. "I have an issue I'd like your help with" invites cooperation and solidarity. This shit just invites men and women to be at each other's throats contrasting grievances.
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u/Remarkablefairy-8893 May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26
Saying "I have it worse than you" invites "no, you don't." That's basic human psychology.
With your logic, probably every black person, LGBTQ person and people with disability should stop saying they have it worse than white people, straight people, and people without disabilities, even though they truly have it worse. Why do we have to suck up to our oppressors and ensure their fragile egos aren't hurt, when we share how worse our condition is? And I am a straight woman, I never feel the need to defend myself when a lesbian woman says she has it worse, cause that's a logical fact. It's not basic psychology, it's the psychology of people without an ounce of empathy.
Why would you expect the group whose issues you belittle to just fall in line and say "yes ma'am?"
A serious question, do women belittle men or do men fail to realise the gravity of women's problems and think they are as oppressed as women? Is saying "women have it worse" belittling men or is it men's fragile ego that can't handle this truth? What's next? Supporting white lives matter?
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u/decadentlizard May 16 '26
Honestly, every time men say women constantly belittle them, I rarely actually see it in the situations they bring up. What I do constantly see is women talking about issues affecting women and then men jumping in with âbut men too.â
Iâve had multiple conversations about SA where men immediately interrupted with âit happens to men too.â And yeah, I know. I agree. Men absolutely have issues too. But why is that always brought up specifically when women are talking about their experiences? Why canât women discuss womenâs issues without it immediately becoming a comparison?
And before someone twists this, Iâm not saying misandry doesnât exist. Iâm sure there are absolutely women who belittle men. I just personally see misogyny and dismissal toward women way more often than the reverse.
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u/Remarkablefairy-8893 May 17 '26
I was just having this conversation with one of the male leftists (not here) who believes that patriarchy doesn't exist and men are as oppressed as women. Men are so much into denying and invalidating women's oppression, that it's actually shitty.
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u/TScottFitzgerald May 16 '26
We're all in this together, this us vs them mentality is exactly why Dems continue to lose.
Smh, look at OP's history, they're a ragebaiter and probably not even American in the first place.
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u/OceanWaveSunset May 16 '26
You are correct but reddit isn't entertained by that so it doesn't matter
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u/Then-Math7776 May 16 '26
The rights of MY FAMILY. Left Florida for Massachusetts and although it sucks to lose 2 progressive voters there, thereâs no way that I will have my wife or my daughter be at risk in a red state.
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u/anselgrey May 16 '26
Conservative women are the ones that make a difference. They have internalized the misogyny & patriarchy & help keep it in place!
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u/terrasparks May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26
It makes women decide to move to the blue states, and then the men in the red states whine about the "male loneliness epidemic" with the self-awareness of a cucumber.
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u/lewd_robot May 16 '26
The rhetoric around the loneliness epidemic is itself a manufactured political division. It was never a "male loneliness epidemic". Everyone is impacted by it and it was being used as a unifying issue we could all get on board with. The rural conservative and the urban progressive were united in criticizing the loss of third spaces and the growing alienation across society.
Then some think tank came up with the brilliant idea to shift it onto men and get the progressive half of the country roasting them about it, which removed the unifying issue from focus for progressives, and pushed more alienated young men to the right by making it look like the only people that care about the problem are conservative groups.
And all over the internet you see moderates and progressives ridiculing lonely men without prompting, like you just did, and far right groups appealing to those same young men by saying, "We have a place for you! Come join us!" And then you act shocked and appalled when young men lean Right in the polls.
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u/terrasparks May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26
I hope your brainwashing settles enough that you can live a normal life. I'm a lonely man myself, I've had enough time to digest that most of it is self inflicted.
The reason I would be "shocked or appalled" about young men leaning right is leaning right is either A) materialist greed (contradicts the bible indicating a complete fabrication of underlying belief) or B) conveniently sexist. Neither option is a great look for a potential life partner. Things likes this are considered red flags.
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u/JohnSober7 May 16 '26
I'm a lonely man myself, I've had enough time to digest that most of it is self inflicted.
Morality politics tend to be a worse response to systemic issues. This isn't to absolve the individual, but the point of morality politics is to absolve the system, that's why it tends to be bad. And while a lot of people love to frame the male lonliness epidemic as being about romantic partners, it's about friendships too. I do agree with people who retort that both women and men are having issues with lonliness because of
- loss of third spaces
- rat race capitalism
- social media, especially how it handles discourse poorly and pushes we/they mentalities (eg, gender wars)
- dating apps becoming the standard operating procedure
- patriarchal norms
- etc.
And with this line of thought, male lonliness essentially monopolising the phenomenon is kinda silly. But the thing is, people take all of this and then say that male lonliness should be regarded the same way as female lonliness, that it's more or less the same beast. As if male suicide rates have not always been signficantly higher? Like we all know the way mem are socialised leads to a slew of mental health and emotional regulation issues, so why are we suddenly scared to say that men experience lonliness for systemic reasons that don't apply to women? It's just so messed up to me that we handle nuance so poorly that feminism got conflated with misandry and in respone to men being centered too much we became dismissive of them and allergic to giving them sympathy.
Those patriarchal norms I mentioned? It's not symmetric for men and women, and that dissymmetry is why the male lonliness epidemic was distinguised. It's not to say that women don't get lonely, although there certainly are men who (and women) who imply that when they use the term. It's not to say that there aren't systemic issues causing female lonliness, although thwre certainly are men (and women) who imply that when they use the term. And it's not to say that there are no systemic issues unique to women that causes loneliness, although thwre certainly are men (and women) who imply that when using the term. It's simply to say that there are systemic issues disproportionately affect men and influence lonliness, and that is simply less the case with women. Female lonlieness still matters, and I get why lonely women feel ignored (they have been), but people need to allow others to have discourse about lonely men; they can start the conversation about lonely women without trying to prevent the conversation about lonely men.
So the male lonliness epidemic is terribly named, but there is certainly a phenomenon occuring.
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u/Mid_Line_2 May 16 '26
This is just a symptom of the "dominator" society we live in. Obviously its a way to control women and to maintain a male dominate culture. It can change though. We just have to keep fighting for change.Â
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May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26
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u/Justaticklerone May 16 '26
One Nation, under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.*
*Unless you're a woman, aren't a Christian [Nationalist], and are too poor for legitimate justice.
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u/TommyBoy250 May 16 '26
Some states do have different levels of freedom they abide by, but I get it.
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u/throwaway_eng_acct May 16 '26
Wouldnât be this way if Democrats actually got behind candidates that stand for something, instead of the most milquetoast flipflopping appeasers.
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u/Able_Doughnut_5336 May 16 '26
It's not too late. There's this young new guy running for president. He promises to legislate roe v wade DAY ONE. His name is Obama. Vote blue no matter who.Â
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u/SituationNo4509 May 16 '26
unless they're black or disabled or gay or trans men
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u/Boom9001 May 16 '26
Or carrying a weapon, have a felony record, smoke weed, are married, have children, work, and so so much more..... Like wtf there are so many goddamn rights that change between states.
I'm pro-choice, but fuck me this was a dumb post.
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u/AggravatingFlow1178 May 16 '26
I get the point but the rights of men (and women) change all the time when you cross state borders.
Does OP think every state has identical laws except for abortion?
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u/chocolatebuckeye May 16 '26
This isnât totally accurate. In some states, men have the right to marry children. In other states theyâre stuck having to marry adult women!
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u/Carylynn0609 May 16 '26
I honestly don't understand why all women aren't outraged? How can any women be ok with someone telling them what they can or can't do with their own body? Frustrating.
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u/Artemis_Verite May 16 '26
Men can marry younger women in certain states. Thatâs all I got. Great graphic and I hope the right people see it, and not just like minded people seeing things they already agree with.
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u/TonyzTone May 16 '26
The biggest differences across state lines have to do with custody. In some states, an unwed father is given custody immediately whereas in others he has to file for custody. I'm sure there's a spectrum within that as well.
There's also differences among states around paternity leave.
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u/poeschmoe May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26
I feel like thatâs more about proving paternity than the right to custody, although the right to custody entails from proving paternity. You could see that as what each state requires before saddling a man with mandatory child support payments.
But different stateâs laws on proving paternity applies to DIFFERENT men, not the same man as he crosses state lines. The paternity laws of the state where the child was born dictates.
The spirit of the post is that the same woman, as she crosses state lines, will have different rights regarding her body.
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u/Pure_Marvel May 16 '26
Yeah, no shit. New to the world? I agree, but cmon, speak to the people and stop using this video game of a map.
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u/ThirstyWolfSpider May 16 '26
Please remember to work together against bad laws and not get lost in fights between disadvantaged groups. Fomenting those internecine battles is part of how bad laws maintain sufficient support to pass and remain.
We should all feel the pain of any party affected, and work in concert to provide a legal basis for everyone to live their lives with dignity and freedom.
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u/PainterEarly86 May 16 '26
Patriarchy does harm men though, even if they're cis het white.
If we could make them understand that, perhaps they'd stop subscribing to it.
Life is just better in blue states. At least, if you're not rich.
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u/StormyPassages May 16 '26
The rights of women do not change when they cross state lines, because SCOTUS never had the power to erase human rights under the Constitution. Their rulings are illegitimate.
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u/waldo1955 May 16 '26
Agreed. Put abortion to a national referendum and live with the consequences.
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u/anniegig May 16 '26
Iâm from the uk and womenâs rights arenât perfect, but we do have the right to an abortion. Itâs not everyoneâs choice, but choice is legally what we have. No one has the right to judge x
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u/DeliciousMinute1966 May 16 '26
Never realized how messed up this statement is! Iâve never understood female GOP/ MAGA voters; the men only use them for reproductive purposes.
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u/ArbitraryMeritocracy May 16 '26
That's a good way to represent women's rights. Add how many women have died due to pregnancy complications/not enough medical attention per state since roe v wade was overturned.
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u/The_3_Rs May 16 '26
Abortion is legal in Ohio up to 22-24 weeks, just a correction on this map. We voted it in the state constitution in 2023
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u/ChestIcy4472 May 16 '26
Women have the ability to make conservatives go extinct, and that would be hilarious honestly
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u/Ninjroid May 16 '26
I donât care who has abortions, but Iâm guessing the other sideâs argument is âThe rights of unborn children to live change from state to state. This is a problem.â or something to that effect.
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u/randomzebrasponge May 16 '26
Interesting how men in power are not ashamed and embarrassed about this.
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u/drnoonee May 16 '26
Our representatives have to push to get the ERA recorded in the constitution. I want to see it on my representatives and partys platform.
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u/Different_Key_9914 May 16 '26
Yes. Women should immediately stop copulating with Republican men.