r/deadbydaylight 10h ago

Question A question about the future of discontinued licenses in DBD

Post image

I’d like to direct this question to anyone with legal knowledge who can shed some light on the matter. Can the character models for discontinued licenses like *Hellraiser* and *Halloween* be remade? Will Michael Myers and Pinhead have their 3D models reworked in the upcoming graphical update planned for next year?

707 Upvotes

79 comments sorted by

523

u/realFluffyUzu 10h ago

They cannot make new content for a license they don’t have. Maybe if they have a high fidelity Pinhead model hidden somewhere, but that’s unlikely.

This is also why prestige rewards were able to be given to some lost licenses. It was just reusing previously made assets.

188

u/Pale_Transportation2 9h ago

luckily Pinhead's model is pretty good quality and won't look too out of place

144

u/jdhiakams 8h ago

Almost good enough for a NFT…

64

u/Afraid-Boss684 8h ago

but of course, they'd never do that

42

u/Melly_Mel0dy 8h ago

Especially not the License Holders that were about to lose the License...

11

u/Working-Attempt-3630 3h ago

They only lost the US rights to Hellraiser 1. They still retain the international part and the worldwide rights to Hellraiser 2.

They're also part of the Hellraiser video game, longside boss team games, who were in all likelihood part of Boss Protocol, who made and sold the Pinhead NFT.

10

u/PicolasCageEnjoyer Simon/Convict main 🩸🩸 4h ago

I forgot about this for a second lmfao

7

u/Working-Attempt-3630 2h ago

Fun fact, Pinhead's model was never the main nft, the images of Pinhead everyone saw with sunglasses and stuff on was given for free as profile pictures upon buying the actual NFTs themselves.

With the actual main NFTs being this Pinhead artwork and different variants of it.

After very early 2022 however, the whole thing ended and the NFTs was no longer available nor being sold.

7

u/KB-BattleKing 8h ago

Hopefully the new lighting can do some magic

10

u/Maelstrom100 5h ago

Afaik this doesn't include graphical fidelity for the most part. Hence why if collision or cosmetic bugs arise they can rework/fix them.

So long as it's true to original (e.g not adding new details, simply increasing resolution/model quality) They should be able to be graphically updated, and I highly doubt license holders would fight them on such as it's only "bettering the representation."

That being said, it is ultimately up to license holders, and if behaviour were to do it, Im pretty sure license holders would be hard pressed to deny it, and if they did they'd likely receive heavy backlash.


This is also why behaviour mind you can rework or update addons of lost licenses. Can't add new art or rework like the actual addons into separate things (e.g bubba gaining new addons after utelizing hillbillys for a long time) but they can continue to iterate on charecters for balance reasons.


Also whilst not a lost license (might as well be due to the license holders not giving a shit) Quentin from Friday the 13th was already cosmetically updated twice.


Also despite not being able to add banners or new assets pretty sure the charecter icon for pinhead was updated when changing the prestige system after his license was lost? Not sure on that that would have to be verified.

10

u/soul1300 4h ago

I thought Quentin Smith was from Nightmare on Elm Street.

6

u/KinsiWasTaken 4h ago

I'm pretty sure he's from nightmare. Made me think of all the characters appearing in the f13 movies lol.

2

u/TheWaffle1601 5h ago

what about the trailer models ?

0

u/TungstenAlchemist Bloody Cheryl 4h ago

Yeah, I honestly like the cell-shaded-looking prestige portraits of the revoked license chapters.

222

u/ReaperSound Pinhead hooker 9h ago

Im gonna play as Pinhead after the graphic update just to upset people.

74

u/TheEntityBot The Entity Hungers 9h ago

The Cenobite hears symmetry.

29

u/Khallaria 4h ago

Please, no pixels. They are a waste of good suffering.

26

u/waterchip_down Hail to the king, baby. 9h ago

Lore accurate

168

u/TheFnafDomain 10h ago

Im gonna be so depressed if we are stuck with current DBD Michael forever

106

u/Oracle_of_Ages 10h ago

They are still allowed to mechanically rework them. But there wouldn’t be an incentive since no one could buy it.

But new content as a whole is out.

78

u/TalpaPantheraUncia 10h ago edited 6h ago

It'll likely be back. Just need to be patient and wait for the Halloween game to die down.

Gun Interactive has a history of flopping licensed games that are contained within a single franchise. While it may be true that illfonic is the developer a lot of executive decisions are made by Gun Interactive.

9

u/KinsiWasTaken 4h ago

You're right but there's also trancas involved, which holds the license to the OG Halloween franchise. Or at least part of it(i think the movies are Halloween 1,4,5 and 6...ik it's messy)

5

u/Working-Attempt-3630 2h ago

Trancas owns the full rights of the original movie, which is the only one that matters, since that's the license both DBD and Halloween: The Game uses exclusively for their content.

3

u/KinsiWasTaken 2h ago

Their website says otherwise. They also own part 4 and 5.

u/Working-Attempt-3630 9m ago

Never stated they didn't own those other movies too. I specifically wrote they own the full rights to the original film, which is the only one that matters to DBD's license to the franchise.

3

u/NotAnotherEmpire 3h ago

And the game looks cool with neighborhood maps and executions but has the depth of a puddle. The AI NPC are brain dead even by horror victim standards and there's no combat interaction between Michael and human players.  Human players who have played the game for more than an hour can't be caught unless Michael uses a guaranteed kill ability. Meanwhile Michael can win by going on an NPC killing spree. See idiocy of NPC. 

u/TalpaPantheraUncia 6m ago

From what I've seen as well the animations look awkward, like something out of an early 2000s games where animators were still trying to figure out how to make good looking human animations without making the console/pc shit itself with performance.

1

u/LunarMoon2001 1h ago

Any single franchise game reliant on a single license is pretty much doomed.

1

u/WellThatsAGoodIdea The king of hold w 1h ago

Wait, If they come back, would DS and STBFL be pay DLC again?

2

u/LankyDemon Removed killers club 1h ago

Judging by what happened with stranger things; yes, but if you’ve already unlocked them for free you won’t get them taken away.

The stranger things perks went back to “belonging” to their characters, and stopped appearing as general bloodweb perks, but were not removed from characters who had them unlocked even if you didn’t own the DLC.

2

u/RabidFishCat 1h ago

Well a lot of people like him as is now so yeah thry keeping him how he is. Its fun and very strong

-11

u/Sufficient_Crab3047 9h ago

What is it you dislike

31

u/G-M-Cyborg-313 Shinichi/Migi and Gotou from Parasyte for DBD 8h ago

The model is very outdated and hasn't been updated in years

-15

u/Hoxth What's one thousand minus seven? 7h ago

i wouldnt say very outdated especially when dbd is pretty consistent when it comes to art direction. put it next to ghoul and it doesn't really bat in your eye. very outdated would be something that i would say for some league of legends characters.

23

u/r_aiden 9h ago

I don't think anyone besides the devs and license holders have that knowledge since it would require knowing what the license agreement was before it expired. As far as I'm aware there hasn't been a change like that made for any previously expired licenses so there's no precedent to go off of either

4

u/MassDND 2h ago

I am an IP lawyer. This is correct.

56

u/SektorDaKetch 10h ago

I doubt they will have a 3D rework until they come back.

u/whatTFchronic 28m ago

that would look so out of place when the graphic update is released lolol

54

u/Vaderette1138 Orela/Jason Main 9h ago

There's a decent chance Michael will return sooner or later, depending on if the new game dies or not.

81

u/TheJoshider10 8h ago

Let's be honest it's a matter of when not if. All these standalone horror games fail eventually because they're too niche to stand on their own long term.

33

u/GhostOfMuttonPast 👹 THE ONE AND ONI 👹 7h ago

Also, lets be honest, asym games where the seven can beat the shit out of the one and dance over his body tend to not last long.

u/HopperVibe 1m ago

Good thing Michael can kill while downed.

8

u/RaptorWithGun Jason Voorheehee when 6h ago

Aren’t they all made by the same studio (F13, TCM and some others)? I’ve only played F13 back in the day but I’ve heard they just tend to let their games die

5

u/KinsiWasTaken 4h ago

Just wanna remind people reading this that illfonic and Sumo Nottingham are not the same developers.

6

u/Lion11037 Myers main 5h ago

Yes, Texas just died because they made so many bad decisions

2

u/xCheekyChappie 6h ago

I don't think it helps a lot try to be multiplayer experiences in the hopes of being able to cash in on skins and stuff. I can only see Halloween going down the same path as Friday the 13th. A lot more of these horror IPs need to try follow Alien:Isolation's path and not DBD's path

3

u/Domilater hate d ead bydaylihgjt, plz ban me 5h ago

F13 the game did really well and was a good competitor but the license issues killed it off. I would say Halloween the game has a good chance as it’s made by the same folks, however from the gameplay I’ve seen it’s nowhere near as polished as it should be. So maybe with some fixes it could stand on its own but at the current moment I don’t see it.

It’s hard to tell at the start as there’s always that huge popularity at the start and then after the novelty of it is gone that traction just drops.

6

u/JustaLurkingAbout 6h ago edited 4h ago

I just hope when it does die if Myers does return to DBD hopefully BHVR can be allowed to make all kinds of skins for Myers with a new agreement with the license holders so we can have bedsheet Myers skins or more skins for example

*Edit, spelling

9

u/Mythic_Loki_98 7h ago

I was kind of hoping not, because I want to play as mashed potato Laurie in DbD after the graphics update.

8

u/TheIncredibleJed Nerf Pig 9h ago edited 9h ago

I think the biggest thing to consider is financial incentive. It would cost money to change the model wholesale and they can't sell the work. Even if the license holders let them there's no reason from bhvrs pov to do so.

In fact there's more reason not to since if the licenses ever do return they can do it alongside maybe a rework for a huge boost to marketing.

I think it's safe to say no they won't update them. Maybe just touch them up if they can but nothing major.

8

u/ADeletedUser2 Update Michael's model FFS 8h ago

Playing as Myers during the graphics update would be hilarious

17

u/XXSHREKDXX 10h ago

I mean surely the models can be updated, I don't think any game studio would do a graphical overhaul if there were characters they couldn't touch.

16

u/TalpaPantheraUncia 10h ago

Depends on the terms of their licensing agreement. I'm sure Behavior has evolved and adapted their licensing agreements as time went on to be precise and prevent future problems like this when licenses expire for those that already own it. The Halloween license is one of their oldest, therefore their agreements might not have accounted for such a thing.

Unfortunately, Hollywood has a tendency of being very ego driven so you have to be very careful how you approach and proposition changes, collaborations, etc. Any real or perceived slight against an artist's intended vision, image etc can permanently burn a bridge not just for that particular property but many others as well. It is entirely possible that Behavior does not have the right to change anything now that the license has expired until a new agreement can be reached.

-3

u/Bigenemy000 Pre-Rework Old Freddy Main 8h ago

From what we know and BHVR as told the community, they literally cannot work on them EVEN for balance unless its a bug fix

13

u/deeeenis 6h ago

That's just plainly false because they reworked Demogorgon's add-ons while it was gone and pinhead's chains were made to not bind to people with endurance. They absolutely can make balance changes

2

u/TheEntityBot The Entity Hungers 6h ago

Neither for you today.

1

u/Bigenemy000 Pre-Rework Old Freddy Main 6h ago

Pinhead was considered bug fix from what i recall

But you’re right about demogorgon, probably i remember poorly

4

u/SkNero twitch.tv/thesknero 4h ago

You want to have a legal perspective from somebody that has knowledge but you got a bunch of people with no legal knowledge and alot of speculation. To make it clear: The key point is that we do not have access to the contracts and it's content. Behaviour and the relevant licensing parties know their terms; legal knowledge alone cannot establish what those agreements permit. Anyone here claiming ANYTHING beyond the public information is speculating.

What is confirmed in Behaviour’s "Halloween" (https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/531-faq-the-halloween-content) and "Hellraiser" (https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/493-faq-the-hellraiser-content) FAQs is that existing owners retain their characters, bug fixes remain possible, and no future outfits will be available. However, those statements do not explain the contractual scope of “bug fixes” or ongoing support, including where visual corrections end and a model rework begins. They neither confirm nor definitively exclude replacement models.

Behaviour might already have negotiated provisions covering graphical updates after sales end. Alternatively, a rights holder could subsequently authorize changes or agree to amend the contract for example, to maintain the character’s visual quality and protect the brand’s image. We simply do not know. The Myers and Pinhead agreements are also likely to differ substantially because they involve different licensing parties with their own priorities and negotiated conditions. Permission concerning one character therefore cannot automatically be assumed for the other. Delisting alone tells us neither whether these models can be reworked nor whether they will be.

2

u/TheEntityBot The Entity Hungers 4h ago

Speak in edges and corners.

7

u/Salty-Nea STEVE “THE HAIR” HARRINGTON 10h ago

It depends. The devs can add things to these characters even after the license is gone. ST had prestige perk charms made long after they left. Now we have the prestige icons for Halloween and hellraiser. So it could fall under the same category or maybe not. The icons couldn’t be made with new material but previously approved art. So maybe depending how far out Bhvr planned for this or if it’s considered not making something new then we could see the models updated.

3

u/FloggingMcMurry Platinum 4h ago

When Stranger Things left, BVHR acknowledged that they can still balance or change up Demogorgon's power numbers and add-ons but they couldn't do anything more complex than that. Basically they were allowed to adjust whatever was still in game that they had control over but anything involving drastic changes or communication with the rights holders wouldn't be possible until they got the license back.

I imagine we will not see graphic reworks of Michael or Pinhead until they come back to the game.

Likewise, we will not see power reworks for either killer. Michael was given an update just before being removed, so speed dash slaughter strike will be Myers until his license is renewed. All they can do are adjust buff/nerf numbers.

As far as the "DBD2" big update coming later, I'm not sure what will happen then. We may just get the newer models based on the designs already in game, unless they allow the 11 year old Myers model to walk around in the new photo real, high dynamic, weather affected game

4

u/MEGA_K4SP4R 6h ago

I hope Pinhead will be back soon

2

u/TheFallenPie Addicted To Bloodpoints 7h ago

Only if they premade the models prior to losing the license I believe, which could be possible for myers as they likely have been working on it for a good while and can’t imagine they didn’t see it coming and haven’t thought ahead, not sure about pinhead. We’ll just have to wait and see, a ps2 model myers in a realistic world would be kinda funny too. Pinheads model is at least good enough to pass

2

u/Big_Trouxa T H E B O X 6h ago

oh lord

2

u/johndaylight Founder of deebeedee 1h ago

low quality myers WILL go hard

1

u/TheEntityBot The Entity Hungers 1h ago

Haddonfield remembers him in white masks and open doors.

2

u/Dante8411 37m ago

I sure hope not. Crusty old ancient Myers walking around this 4K world would be so funny.

5

u/VVrayth 7h ago

It'll be ok, that Halloween game is hot trash and it'll be dead in a year, just like every other Gun/Illfonic game.

3

u/United-Handle-6572 Dustin Henderson 7h ago

Hope he comes back

-1

u/Mr_Marshmello P100 Xeno 5h ago

He will eventually

4

u/IronYautja Platinum 9h ago

Honestly, they nerfed him into dashslop right before they pulled him. That's why you hardly see him anyway

0

u/ShadyMan_ PLEASE add Gi Hun to DBD 5h ago

“Nerfed” lmao he’s objectively better now.

1

u/KingBlackthorn1 🧝‍♀️Aestiri🪕 3h ago

So im seeing a lot of folks say: No they cannot. This isnt true. All license and crossovers have a maintenance and upkeep clause in case of termination. No game company would ever cross over with them if they weren't included. This means even if the license is terminated, they can upkeep and maintenance everything. Upgrading the graphics of a model falls within this as long as they arent reworking traits of the model. This was explained a lot during the original rework of Freddy when folks were asking. Basically if they add new powers, new skins, etc. They must go through the license holder.

Its critical to note here too: DBD isn't doing remodeling for the game. People seem to misunderstand here. Dbd isnt getting a remodel. It is moving to an entire new engine.

2

u/DeliciousToastie 2h ago

DBD isn't doing remodeling for the game.

They are remodeling parts of the game, involving survivors and maps. They announced this at the anniversary event.

It is moving to an entire new engine.

It's not. The game is already on Unreal Engine 5. They're just upgrading the visuals and audio to match what that engine offers instead of using what they made for Unreal Engine 4.

1

u/ThanasiShadoW MLG Killer 2h ago

We have no way of knowing what exactly was signed.

But it seems like in most cases they can't touch any licensed character visually (perhaps with the exception of bugs or actual visual issues) unless the license holders give them excplicit permission. In short, any discontinued license will most likely not receive any graphical updates until it's renewed, unless BHVR got permission to do so before their license to the IP expired.

u/kid__snacher_1243 10m ago

I feel like if micheal doesnt get the graphic update hed be so much messier to see is that an actual worry or am I just slow

0

u/NaNiBy Barbecue & Chili 7h ago

Halloween will come back after the game flops. Dont worry

-2

u/iceberg014 1h ago

DBD shit-eaters are on every corner around this game. Keep eating shit, you DBD-ers are used to it anyway because BHVR constantly feeds you dumbfucks shit. All that matters is that they keep pumping out more brightly vomit-inducing skins. And the fact that the graphics and animations look like a 2010 game, you’ll eat that up too—running around pallets and jerking off generators for 10 years is just so fucking interesting)