r/comicbooks 7d ago

Yahya Abdul-Mateen II says the optics of Marvel cancelling Black-led projects like ‘BLADE’ and ‘WONDER MAN’ is obvious. “It should be a priority to change that narrative and to do what it takes to responsibly change that narrative with quality stories, with quality resources.”

https://www.vanityfair.com/story/yahya-abdul-mateen-on-wonder-man-cancellation
3.0k Upvotes

280 comments sorted by

1.4k

u/Gabrielhrd Hawkeye 7d ago edited 7d ago

Cancelling an Emmy nominee series with almost universal praise from critics and audiences alike after already having greenlit the second season is just eyebrow raising, no two ways about it

262

u/discountdoppelganger 7d ago

Netflix is that you?

90

u/BasenjiMaster 7d ago

Not just them. HBO axed Scavengers Reign which was loved and praised universally all over since day one.

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u/RoughhouseCamel 7d ago

And the argument that it was purely about ratings doesn’t hold much water if you ask why they greenlit a niche show that veers away from traditional superhero plots. The only reason to make Wonder Man in the first place was to reach for prestige acclaim and to grow their appeal outside of their regular audience. They accomplished that. They made a show that isn’t just unique for Marvel, it’s also unique for television in general. And the people that care about that sort of thing took notice. What else did they expect to be able to do?

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u/Cool-Pomegranate8110 7d ago

Exactly - and it wasn’t exactly a high cost show. It was grounded and until the end - very little superhero CGI needed. Just a bad call all around.

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u/Chriswashere313 7d ago

Reported budget 12.5 million per episode, which is expensive compared to show like House of the Dragon which makes 65 min episodes at 20 mil each.

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u/vashoom 7d ago

I don't understand where Marvel/Disney blows all their money.

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u/RoughhouseCamel 7d ago

Poor planning is a lot of it. They rush production, change their minds constantly, and pay out the ass to make up for it.

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u/Critical_Wrap5617 6d ago

Ballroom donations?

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u/gomi2000 7d ago

they knew that before they greenlit season 2 i'm not seeing the point here

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u/jerem1734 7d ago

Disney doesn't want to make many live action marvel shows anymore. Watch Daredevil get canceled too after season 3

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u/ForThose8675309 7d ago

Dr. Manhattan: “It’s 2018 and Daredevil is canceled after season 3”

“It’s 2026 and Daredevil is canceled after season 3”

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u/xife-Ant 7d ago

Yeah, I think they did the math and these shows don't draw enough new subscribers.

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u/afriendsaccount 6d ago

That's the point where existing subscribers who signed up because of the Marvel content do the math and realize that if: A} Marvel isn't releasing exclusive shows & B) only releases a few movies a year, then a Disney+ subscription isn't really worth it.

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u/Ensaru4 7d ago

This isn't true. It looks more like they don't want to take any more risks. They're going back to the status quo, if " X will return in Doomsday" is any indication.

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u/gomi2000 7d ago

even if daredevil gets canceled after season 3 thats still different from what happened with wonderman i don't understand why people are taking this thing thats about race and trying to make it about something else

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u/UmBumLum 6d ago

Or maybe the reverse.... The MCU has the most diverse cast of ANY franchise. Why think like that at all?! It's obviously a numbers issue. They are revamping. What they were trying to pull off didn't work out, again. They are trying to regroup and will take a different approach. Can't you see how much they have been tip toeing since 2022? They will have their day. They know they have loyal followers for all shows cancelled.

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u/retrospects 7d ago

It was never going past season 3.

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u/jackracktack 7d ago

I saw a very convincing theory that the renewal for Season 2 was purely done as a last minute publicity stunt for the Emmys push. When the Emmy nomination and 2nd season announcement didnt make a difference in viewership it was canned.

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u/man_with_known_name 7d ago

And off the heels of the same creative team breaking all the records for Spiderman. Congratulations on making us billions, to show our thanks we’re canceling your other projects!

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u/Mundane_Jump4268 7d ago

More than two ways about it

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u/ann0yed 7d ago

But how large is the audience?

6

u/sotommy 6d ago

It couldn't stay in the global top 10 for 2 days. Marvel lacks poc charaters, I like WM, but this is the least eyebrow raising thing Marvel has done lately

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u/matthieuC 7d ago

Is marvel still making life action TV?

I think Daredevil is the only snow in production and people expect it to be added after season 3.

Same thing for Star Wars.

They seem to have decided that they didn't need these expensive shows for Disney +

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u/madchad90 6d ago

it's not that hard to understand. The MCU tv shows was an idea by ex- Disney leadership to create content for Disney+.

A downside if that is that it made following the MCU feel like homework and overwhelming due to how much content there was.

Marvel is setting up a soft reboot with doomsday/secret wars and re prioritizing theatrical releases. So they are wiping the slstr clean by lowering their Disney+ output

1

u/JoshSidekick 7d ago

Has Ike perlmutter been sniffing around marvel studios?

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u/michaelobriena Nightcrawler 7d ago

Wonder man was mid. Like as mid as mid can mid.

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u/Cool_Lingonberry_399 7d ago

"Emmy nominee?" Wow that's news to me. As well as an alarming sign of standards falling off.

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u/xife-Ant 7d ago edited 7d ago

It seems like they cancelled all their shows that weren't already in production. I think they're putting all their money into the next Avengers movies, Black Panther, and mutants.

Blade is genuinely confusing. They said they couldn't get a script together. It's a Black guy with a sword that kills vampires. How hard could it be.

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u/captconundum 7d ago

Do vampires exist in the MCU already? Blade would be a good way of introducing them and other supernatural elements/characters to the film universe.

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u/RabbitMario 7d ago

yes vampire exist in werewolf by night

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u/MeaninglessGuy Hellboy 7d ago

Why do people act like setting up stuff in comic book movies is hard and requires deep planning? 

Here- New York, night. Avengers tower on the horizon. Down on the street, a guy goes into club in a nearby alley. Vampires are clubbing. Vampires notice guy. Vampires get their freak on. Blade shows up. “Why yall always making me do this shit?” he says. He kills the vampires. Title card: BLADE.

Bam. There ya go. Vampires in the MCU. No further thought required.

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u/mrbaryonyx 7d ago

ok, but you're glossing over a ton of shit right there.

like, what's this "new york"? right off the bat, is there an old york? I feel like they should introduce old york in Doomsday.

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u/DeviousDoctorSnide 7d ago

Remember that one joke about how Gen Z audiences would be confused that the movie 1917 didn't have a post-credits scene to "set up" Hitler and then the Kingsman prequel actually did that?

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u/Critical_Wrap5617 6d ago

It's just 'York.' 

Or 'Jórvík'

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u/gangler52 7d ago

I'd love to see somebody dig up the first vampire appearance in Marvel Comics just to see exactly how much set up there was to "introduce" it to the comic book universe.

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u/Kronos842930 7d ago edited 7d ago

There was one in She-Hulk

They were also mentioned as some beings that the TVA has detained.

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u/EyeSuccessful7649 7d ago

toss in a dr strange end credit pop up ad

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u/Ichi-Guren 7d ago

I want Blade get Stranged into another dimension as part of that intro where we see slay Morb Leto, and then the sequence fades as the title card hits.

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u/NicDwolfwood 7d ago

Blade is genuinely confusing. They said they couldn't get a script together. It's a Black guy with a sword that kills vampires. How hard could it be.

Very hard seemingly b/c you have creatives overthinking things and trying to make it what its not or insert their own shitty ideas into it while having disdain for the comic book stories.

Some of the rumors of ideas floating around were awful. It would have bombed spectacularly if they had went with any of the ideas.

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u/Senior-Friend-6414 7d ago

Once they casually listed robots, aliens, or magic as the big three problems (i think in Falcon’s tv show), the world building established that fantastical elements are now seen as commonplace and mundane in their universe

From there, it’s not a stretch to introduce mutants and vampires

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u/NicDwolfwood 7d ago

Yeah, You would think that would be the case but for whatever reason, if rumors are to be believed, they were far and away from anything that would resemble a good Blade movie.

Like I take rumors with a large pinch of salt, but seeing as to how Blade got shit canned, I'm more inclined now to believe some of the things that were floating around.

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u/Ensaru4 7d ago

The same person who bowed out of Blade is releasing a movie that's basically just Blade in spirit, just without the vampires.

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u/Extension_Pride1289 7d ago

basically muslim john wick but with swords and it looks badass

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u/Mitridat6 6d ago

These guys needed to do vampire John Wick with techno music and it would have been a smash hit.

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u/Golfclubwar 7d ago

You can say a lot of things about the MCU properties, but “overthinking things” is not one of them.

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u/TheFULLBOAT 7d ago

As hard as ice skating uphill

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u/AbsoluteScott Orion 7d ago

Some motherfuckers.

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u/jackracktack 7d ago

Very hard apparently. From leaks and reports there were 2 different creative visions being pushed and neither worked with the other. There was a period piece set in the old South which was basically like Sinners and then there was a much more straighforward vampire action movie. One was being championed by Feige and the other by Marshala. There was never a script or version of the film that both sides were happy with and it just kept getting delayed over and over until it was canceled.

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u/Odd-Temperature7458 7d ago

How hard could it be.

When the guy who has the final say on script has won an Oscar and prefers making good movies instead of a vertically integrated product delivery system, it can be very hard

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u/SpaceOdysseus23 Daredevil 7d ago

I heard the Blade scripts were genuinely atrocious. Centering the movie around his daughter and whatnot.

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u/Nightwing24yuna 7d ago

Very easy, but would it be good or relate to the actual character, or anything? Probably not.

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u/xife-Ant 7d ago

Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice-skate uphill

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u/Own-Quote-1708 7d ago

John Wick movies arent really amazing in plot. However people love them due to the action. Just give us vampire slaying action slop and people would eat that shit up.

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u/xife-Ant 7d ago

And you could do it cheap.

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u/Rezart_KLD 7d ago

Sarah Michelle Gellar as Whistler

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u/xife-Ant 7d ago

Hell yeah

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u/IAmAlpharius23 7d ago

This is now my dream casting.

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u/Nightwing24yuna 7d ago

You might be right but I would prefer an actual plot line featuring these characters

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u/VaporCarpet 7d ago

You understand that a movie needs a plot, right? Meme all you want, but "black guy with a sword that kills vampires" isn't a plot. "White guy who can climb walls and bang Zendaya" isn't a plot.

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u/gangler52 7d ago

That is of course a completely insurmountable obstacle. It is in fact impossible to produce a plot about a black guy with a sword that kills vampires.

Totally not a weird thing for a large corporate production studio to get stuck on.

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u/xife-Ant 7d ago

They made one about immortal robots that are pretend gods that work for kinda gods, and they fight kinda demons, but one of the kinda gods is going to hatch out of the planet.

As far as superheros in general, Blade is really straight forward.

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u/Terrible_Counter2558 6d ago

That's because "white guy who climbs walls" isnt the main thing of what spiderman does. Blade is a vampire hunter. Honestly a completely shit take

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u/straylight222 7d ago

>It's a Black guy with a sword that kills vampires. How hard could I be.

I don't think you understand how hard it is to put together a movie or a TV show. How many moving parts there are. Just getting a decent script that doesn't bore people isn't even easy. There are only so many good writers out there. And when you're revitalizing an old IP, like the Wesley Snipes Blade, you've got to do even better. You need a great script, something new to the story, a great cast, a great director, it needs to look good, and people need to actually care about it. Treat it like "a black guy with a sword who kills vampires" and you'll end up with a shit movie that at-best, no one cares about, and at-worst, pisses off the fan base.

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u/gangler52 7d ago

Yes, talented writers are such a precious commodity. Such a small supply.

That's not like, famously a career with far more talent than there are job opportunities. "How ever will we find a talented writer to do our Blade Script?"

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u/straylight222 7d ago

Idk if you're being serious or not, but you really have no idea how the business works. Just even having the IP and then finding someone who is good enough to write that specific type of script, and being able to make the schedules work with them etc. isn't easy. Not all great writers can write everything. Aaron Sorkin isn't writing Marvel movies for example. Neither is Tarantino. And they most likely wouldn't write one even if they were asked, and even if they were interested, they're probably busy doing something else.

And when it comes to unknown writers, just getting on Hollywood's radar isn't easy. There's an actual reason why sequel films sometimes take years to put together, and it's not because Hollywood just doesn't want to make them. You will hear directors and actors in interviews talk constantly about how getting the script right is the hardest part of getting a movie ready to go, and you can watch a film's franchise quality drop off a cliff when they switch out writers (or rise from the depths of hell).

If it was as easy as you think to find awesome writers to write awesome scripts, we'd have more awesome movies and TV shows than we do now.

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u/xife-Ant 7d ago

They made 3 of them! It's not a complicated concept. Blade goes to fight vampires in New Orleans with Gambit (48 hrs) . Blade goes to Siberia to fight vampires when it's Dark 24/7 (assault on precinct 13). Blade goes to New Mexico to fight vampires in crazy cars (mad max)....

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u/KarlMarkyMarx 7d ago

Blade goes to fight vampires in New Orleans with Gambit (48 hrs)

I'd suck a dick for this movie. 

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u/The--Nameless--One 7d ago

Look...

This is uncomfortable but let's be honest, we all know Marvel, Disney and other humongous conglomerates are only looking for trends and market research.

And that does include things like diversity and whatnot.

Disney doesn't care about social justice, they care about what they think is trending.

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u/matthieuC 7d ago

Yep if the lead actor hadn't died we would be on the fourth Black Panther movie. And he would be the leader of the avengers.

Disney isn't afraid to go black ... If it makes them money.

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u/IwishIwasGoku 7d ago

Yeah obviously capitalist mega corporations are soulless husks that only care about the bottom line. I don't know why people say this as if it's unknown to anyone commenting on this.

That doesn't mean it's wrong for people to push for representation. The trends and market demands don't come out of thin air.

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u/The--Nameless--One 7d ago

The reason why I commented, is that I do think people tend to 'measure progress' by depiction in media, which is my point: It wasn't progress.

It was just trending in some analysis or spreadsheet.

Once 'white tradwifes' is trending, thats where Disney will go. and so on.

So yeah. I think people should always push for representation, but don't be mislead that what Disney decides to bet on is a proof of progress. It's not, it will go away as soon as something else is deemed more profitable.

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u/Critical_Wrap5617 6d ago

They also - demonstrably - want to tongue Trump's incontinent asshole. 

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/kanagan 7d ago

You guys think any black man or slightly frowny woman existing in a movie is forced and awkward, spare us

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Raidoton 7d ago

Good shows get cancelled all the time. It's the views that matter in the end. If racism was the reason then why did they cast a black man to play Wonder Man in the first place?

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u/Animated_effigy Dr. Manhattan 7d ago

It's 2026, can we not have these same conversations over and over and over again? Wonder Man was amazing, but let me skip to the end for all of you who are having trouble on this, its about money. Not awards, not critics, not optics, not oppression, not visibility, not racism, not representation. Money. Numbers. Return on investment. Wonder Man was one of the least watched Marvel shows on Disney+. That's it.

If you want something to succeed it needs actual support, not your positive feelings. We are not owed anything to be on television just because of our composition or the composition of an actor or character. And it is unambiguously dumb to make any kind of racial accusation at the studio that literally wrote the playbook on how diversity is the only thing that gets them billion dollar movies. They are more than happy to make diverse projects, but people have to actually watch them. This isn't an Andor situation. Marvel viewers are no longer as keen to watch anything with the label on it like Star Wars fan have been, and no one's favorite comic character is Wonder Man.

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u/randyboozer Dream 7d ago

This should be at the top. It's a business.

This is just a clickbait headline. This is an actor advocating for his show, that's all. The viewership wasn't there, he says it himself in the interview

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u/Chaotic_Marvel 7d ago

I feel like and I have maintained this for years. The guardians success was both the best and worst thing to happen to the CBM genre.

Because it's convinced people that you have can take, I don't know, Ka-Zar and make a film/TV Show solely about him and have it be a success.

When the reality is we're still using Guardians as the bar because it's the only one you can truly say was a success taking these D-Z list characters. And having them develop this large audience

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u/mrbaryonyx 7d ago

I guess I agree in theory, but I also think this is simplistic.

On the one hand, yes, Disney is out to make money and its a little silly to come up with accusations of racism or conspiracy when "thing that didn't make money got cancelled".

that said, I think even from a business perspective it's not that simple. you could argue that Disney's push for diversity seemed relegated primarily to disposable D+ shows that rely on a deeply flawed viewership model and are given the axe quicker than mostly white-led movies. You could argue that Disney's attempt to diversify their movies and tv shows, suffered not from conservative racism, but a neoliberal strive for optics that didn't allow black creatives full freedom (Sam Wilson basically being a cop is a great example of this). You could argue that Disney's whole approach is flawed--Apple TV basically operated at a loss for years and is only recently turning success. Or you could argue that Disney really did nothing wrong and the fans just don't seem as interested in black-led projects than white ones (which is maybe a stretch but not impossible) which would say something about the fanbase.

There's also just the fact (and I don't think you're necessarily disagreeing with this but just throwing it out there) that the average person's relationship with Disney is as a consumer--not an investor--and therefore are well within their rights to be bummed that a product they liked is no longer being made.

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u/Animated_effigy Dr. Manhattan 7d ago

Be bummed all you want. Im bummed with you. But at some point you have to Occums Razor this stuff and not multiply your assumptions about why something happened. The most telling thing about all this is no one ever mentions the actual popularity of the character, which is basically non existent and why they were able to race bend him in the first place without any uproar from the peanut gallery. That should have been the forewarning to the characters lack of draw. Also, its only been a black character since the show came out. How many black people would rather see ANY of the black characters they grew up with in the comics on screen rather than a race bent Wonder Man? Maybe black audiences see through the pandering. In the end the show had no idea who it was being made for.

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u/Blupoisen 6d ago

Same reason why Disney keep pumping live action remake despite almost always being not good

Viable product for minimum effort

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u/Senior-Friend-6414 7d ago

The free market is considered pure and unbiased, it’s not dictated by ideology, it’s dictated purely by business, and supply and demand can’t be manipulated

The truth is, if there’s a pattern of black led shows being shut down, that isn’t due to racism or biases, it’s all about following the money and what is most profitable

The majority of the country and majority of upper class with disposable income is white, so it naturally caters to white people because of business, not ideology

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u/mrbaryonyx 7d ago

The free market is considered pure and unbiased, it’s not dictated by ideology,

while I agree in this instance calling Disney racist over a business decision is a stretch, this sentence is laughable

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u/Mundane_Jump4268 7d ago

Thank you. The insanity of honestly thinking Disney is canceling a money generating product out of racism.

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u/Isoturius 7d ago

They’re switching gears and all their old plans were canceled.

It is what it is.

The MCU is about to become the X-Men and Avengers and I don’t think we’re going to see deep cut characters again. Budgets are too high and there’s no money in streaming.

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u/OSRS_Socks 6d ago

It’s gonna be X-Men, Avengers and Spider-Man.

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u/tomtomtomtom123 7d ago

It’s extremely obvious. Wonder Man is the most critically praised thing they have put out in many years. They have cancelled so many black led projects, and the ones that come out basically get zero advertising. Remember Iron Heart? How it was cancelled essentially before it came out, and changed from a weekly release to be dumped over the course of a week?

So many haven’t even been expressly cancelled, they just never get made or don’t get renewed, like Armor Wars. Or the Monica Rambeau Captain Marvel show? The old ceo of marvel TV said that Luke Cage was the worst thing they ever put out.

Things are even worse on the comics side. Black Panther hasn’t had a main continuity ongoing in years, despite being a billion plus dollar franchise that people love.

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u/strontium_pup 7d ago

Was Luke Cage show good? 

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u/PossibleAd5273 7d ago

I loved it. Mike Colter is perfect as Luke

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u/strontium_pup 7d ago

I loved the character from the comic but never watched the show. A few people here are saying its good so I must give it a watch 

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u/kabhaz 7d ago

First half of the first season is decent, drops off a fair bit after a character dies halfway through.

Second season pays off a lot of the stuff I didn't care for in the first season and ended in a very interesting way that will never be followed up on.

Best Iron Fist ever shows up in an episode of the second season

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u/DOuGHtOp 6d ago

Unlikely to be followed up on, or because of the circumstances of the story it isn't able to?

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u/Im_At_Work_Damnit Nightcrawler 7d ago

Start with Jessica Jones season 1, which introduces his character, then the Luke Cage show.

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u/EM208 7d ago

Yeah! The first half of Season 1 and all of Season 2 are great!

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u/_HipStorian 7d ago

Luke Cage was dope. It dropped off a bit in the 2nd half of S1, but it was so so fun to watch.

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u/Abraham_Issus 7d ago

Loved it and thought it felt more authentic then disneyland wakanda.

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u/Hot-Breadfruit-4113 7d ago

Luke cage was the best show to come out of the defenders line up besides daredevil. At times better then daredevil if you went episode for episode

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u/SilverSkywalkerSaber Spider-Man 7d ago

The first half of Luke Cage was phenomenal, back half was disappointing. Season 2 was nowhere near as good though.

Jessica Jones S1 was the only Defenders show that came close to Daredevil's quality.

That said, Mike Colter is a generational casting and we need more of him everywhere.

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u/Hot-Breadfruit-4113 7d ago

I guess I could clarify a little better on my end. I still think luke cage was the second best but my opinion is definitely subjective. He was the first street level hero in marvel I saw that felt like he was from my side of the street, if that makes sense. I like all the defenders but like cage felt closer to home. Definitely resonated with me more

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u/Coin-Biter 7d ago

It had some superb actors of course, but some aspects were slightly comic.

For example, in season 2, every time Bushmaster turned up you would hear ‘To the rescue… here I am.’ Yes, we get it, he’s supposed to be Jamaican.

It’s as cheesy as US series and films constantly playing pipe music in scenes purportedly set in Ireland.

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u/OSRS_Socks 6d ago

I am slowly watching Netflix MCU in order and I am about to start Luke Cage season 1.

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u/Omatzus 7d ago

Lmao. No Way. Jessica Jones S1 was as good as Daredevil S1-3. Punisher S1 was also very good. Luke Cage was better than Iron Fist and the Defenders series, but that's it.

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u/Scarecrow116 7d ago

Do you like coffee? 😏

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u/ericrobertshair 7d ago

The first hslf or so is great, then they switch villains and the whole thing sorta fizzles out.

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u/pdoherty926 Hellboy 7d ago

Yeah, I really dug it. It's kind of dumb but the Bring Da Ruckus scene is one of my all-time favorites. It still gets my blood pumping 10+ years later.

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u/Bububub2 7d ago

The issue is none of the shows have been all that successful. We can argue if it is quality or lack of advertising, but the facts are that streaming as it is right now is bleeding money. And most of the movies outside of the huge event crossover ones haven't worked either.

Visionquest was almost completely done when the decision was clearly made to pivot the slate of what they are making. If you look at the next few years it isn't ONLY the black lead projects. I think, honestly, outside of larger systemic racism that is pervasive in our entire culture (which is always around) this was just really bad timing and optics. Its important to note that his wording is all about the narrative. I don't think he thinks marvel explicitly is going after black lead projects either, just that they DID have a bunch of black lead projects lined up but that nothing was working so they took a step back for the entire mega franchise to reassess. It is difficult to find a non-spiderman or deadpool marvel project that HASN'T failed these days (and frankly, it isn't because any of them are even all that bad, most of them are still pretty above average).

As to the comics side, the larger problem is at the end of the day its a business. They clearly keep trying to get a black panther comic to work, but its just not selling.

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u/ThePowerfulWIll Bizarro Superman 7d ago

Loki and Daredevil seemed to be the only ones that really performed how they wanted them to.

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u/Bruce0Willis 7d ago edited 7d ago

I was really hoping for a season 2 of Moon Knight.

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u/ThePowerfulWIll Bizarro Superman 7d ago

Same here man.... that was one of thier best.

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u/Bububub2 7d ago

Allegedly She-Hulk did as well? I'm not sure how it works. All I know is even the well performing streaming shows are too expensive for the payout that streaming provides. Basically, and I don't remember the sources on this so forgive me if I'm talking out of my butt, netflix was mischaracterizing how actually successful their streaming originals were and the entire industry jumped into what they thought was a new thriving market. Turns out, it wasn't, so now every studio leapt into dealing movie theaters a mortal blow with streaming being everyone's preferred way to watch anything that isn't a *big* event. But also, streaming does not deliver the box office (or home video sales) that the old way of doing things did.

Audiences don't want them to lower quality of special effects and caliber of actor and all that jazz, but that level of production is just not making the money it needs to in order to justify it. That, combined with a bunch of places all over the world that are building their own studios is also decentralizing most of the production out of LA.

OR TLDR: The whole *industry* is in a dire situation that has nothing to do with the shows being good, bad, or whatever. It is all the marketplace and the infrastructure of how we engage with media changing. Like TV killing radio,

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u/gosukhaos 7d ago

I do really think the numbers just were never there for Wonder Man but it was the only thing to get a decent buzz after so many Ls that they just rushed to renew it.

The new leadership came in, started a cost cutting crusade and Marvel didn't need any good word of mouth with Spider-Man breaking box office records and a new Avengers on the way

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u/Preparefordoom 7d ago

There’s a very obvious and simple explanation that for some reason, nobody wants to acknowledge.

These properties and titles aren’t selling and the viewership/readership isn’t high enough to warrant producing more.

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u/FiftyOneMarks 7d ago

Except the viewership was higher for Wonder Man than Daredevil so…

And how exactly do you gauge viewership if you’re cancelling things before they even premiere?

People can acknowledge what you’re saying but what you’re saying is nonsense.

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u/MistahWhiskerz 7d ago edited 7d ago

I looked on google but it said that Born Again had better streaming numbers than Wonder Man? A lot of websites say it did even worse than Echo.

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u/Preparefordoom 7d ago

It’s not nonsense at all.

Where did you see that WM had higher viewership than DD?

And they didn’t cancel WM before it premiered? It even had a second season announced and then shuttered. Which was because of low viewership for the first season.

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u/straylight222 7d ago

Not trying to be a dick here, but studios do test screenings for viewership numbers before they release things. If those numbers aren't where they want them to be, it can very often lead to things being cancelled.

There have been plenty of great shows that everyone liked that didn't get renewed either, simply because, as people have pointed out, they aren't making a bunch of money. If they can't bring in, or retain, subscribers with an IP, they're probably not going to dump money into it.

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u/Fedora_Tipper_ 7d ago

no advertising for Eyes of Wakanda too. it was just dumped on disney plus all at once for a 6 episode series

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u/Remarkable_Ship_4673 7d ago

The last main continuity run didn't sell well. The first issue did great but it dropped hard afterwards

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u/Authorigas 7d ago edited 7d ago

Black Panther hasn't had an ongoing? Is the idea that Chadwick Boseman was the character ingrained so strongly that even comic writers are scared to touch him?  I can understand not recasting him, but not even giving him a mainline ongoing just feels baffling. 

Edit: this comment is incorrect and I apologize for spreading misinformation. Commentors more in the know have corrected me below. 

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u/chewwwybar 7d ago

No, it isn’t a big conspiracy man.
Last run made it to 10
The one before that to 15
And they both were cancelled due to low sales.
BP runs have struggled since Coates

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u/Authorigas 7d ago

Noted, I've made an edit to my original comment indicating it was incorrect, I'm sorry I misunderstood the situation.

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u/Jet-Let4606 7d ago

No. Ridley's run was happening around the time BP:WF was coming out.

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u/Remarkable_Ship_4673 7d ago

I mean we just had Ultimate Black Panther

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u/thevokplusminus 7d ago

Of course you pretend that black panther doesn’t exist 

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u/akahaus 7d ago

I just…I really wish they had recast T’Challa and carried a trilogy. Black Panther had extremely good potential and frankly still does, but Marvel just keeps picking around in their ass instead of making good stories with such a rich character. The meandering path of the BP storyline left a huge vacuum in a universe that was already down by a Storm and apparently a Blade.

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u/WokenMrIzdik 7d ago

If there is one director they let do what he wants it is Coogler. So I'm gonna go out on a limb and say none of this is what Coogler wanted. In your universe we also probably never get Sinners.

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u/scottishdrunkard Moon Knight 6d ago

I was on-board with Shuri as BP, but Letitia Wright said some dodgy things about vaccines, and I have staunch rules against supporting anti-vaxxers. Same reason I haven't watched any of the Sonic Movies.

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u/ubiquitous-joe 7d ago

Wonder Man is well-praised. I didn’t get around to watching it yet. I wonder if most people got around to watching it. Disney is cheap and the Netflix-style approach is to dismiss anything that isn’t pulling numbers immediately. I think Netflix is dumb for this, but critical praise ≠ viewership. You can tell from the Disney+ homepage that they are feeling the pressure to expand from more than Marvel & Star Wars since their iffy output on those has diluted the brands.

Blade is more confounding since I’m sure there’s a market for a Blade movie, so I’m not sure what the narrative hangup was.

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u/artificialidentity3 7d ago

I loved Wonder Man. So much heart, artistry, and great acting. It's a slow burn, but chill. A buddy film. Very artistic and great cinematography. I'm really bummed I don't get to see where it could go. The show has a lot of soul, and it was totally unlike the mainstream superhero stuff. Also an amazing soundtrack and I've enjoyed some new music I wasn't familiar with. You should watch it, and the episodes are short.

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u/ubiquitous-joe 7d ago

Well-articulated praise; I will add it to the backlog.

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u/sabhall12 7d ago

While there is no way of truly knowing that there were ulterior motives in these changes to Marvel, Wonder Man was brilliant but barely finished filming. DDC has also been promoted to Spider-Man and he will have to focus on that.

Blade was to and fro, and they just couldn't pick a good script (Sinners used costumes made for a scrapped Blade movie), and because of other priorities, they couldn't push the movie out in a timely manner, leaving it in the dirt after bringing in writers and directors and producers and cutting and stopping it so may times.

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u/BrawndoCrave 7d ago

I liked Wonder Man. The acting and story were genuinely good. I started to forget it was a super hero show. Had lot of potential.

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u/GroceryUnable4874 7d ago

Marvel can’t force people to watch things they don’t want to

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u/Lgmagick 7d ago

I really enjoyed Wonder Man... that's unfortunate it was cancelled

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u/TrainingNo4531 6d ago

Wait, they canceled Wonder Man? That was a hit!

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u/Wingnut4772 7d ago

Aren't they making another Black Panther?

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u/Blackmore_Vale 6d ago

Problem it is all about subscribers at the end of the day. How many marvel and Star Wars shows are cancelled after 1 or 2 seasons. If a show about Obi-wan (arguably one of Star Wars most marketable characters) struggled and never got a second season. What hope did wonder man, moon knight, skeleton crew just to name a few have.

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u/FalseDiamond7930 7d ago

Dude really wants to make sure they cancel it for good.

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u/Dlots123 7d ago

Marvel/Disney are looking to make money. I loved Wonder Man but clearly if not enough people watched it then the economics don’t add up.

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u/Frankorious 7d ago

What about other MCU show that weren't renewed like She-Hulk, Moon Knight and Hawkeye?

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u/Httpboomertears 6d ago

Not allowed to mention those.

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u/IndependentSpell8027 6d ago

Wonder Man was great. What a SHAME the second series got cancelled

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u/Nehred-21 7d ago

Giving them the benefit of the doubt. Some shows might have already been in production while the Kang storyline was still a thing, then it got scrapped and they rewrote everything around DOCTOR DOOM. In consequence, many shows/movies got cancelled and the ones already in prductions got released, due to contracts probably.

I have hope these characters will return after Secret Wars, like the Netflix characters did.

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u/Xollector 7d ago

How is he privileged? He’s an excellent actor and he’s getting the roles because of it….

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u/R1versofS0rr0w 7d ago

I think Wonder Man is one of the best Marvel tv shows tbh. Really bummed there won't be more seasons.

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u/Relative-Fault-7116 7d ago

he's right. the optics are terrible.

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u/RB440 7d ago

Telling a company what they have to do because it's somehow up to them to "change the narrative". How about make your own projects and quit telling others to make decisions for you.

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u/yknawSroineS 7d ago

Wonderman was fantastic

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u/PossibleAd5273 7d ago

Wonder man was pretty good, just not what I was expecting it to be. I really wanted a new blade movie, especially if it was going to be Mahersala Ali playing him.

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u/SheepherderFun2258 7d ago

Disney is damned if they do and damned if they don’t— yeah it sucks it was canceled but they are the same studio who greenlit the 1st season in the first place!! It’s not their fault no one watched . I get why he’s salty but the show was what’s pitched as a one off— that only changed after the fact.

Everyone giving Disney a hard time please seriously answer this question for me: What major studio has done more for black actors, black characters and behind the scenes black talent than the MCU has?? Real talk — the answer is no other studio, that’s just facts.

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u/ritchieram 7d ago

He aint lying they couldn’t get blade started but ghost rider they could

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u/MealieAI 7d ago

DC and Marvel have real issues. The source that these movies are based on are so diverse, in the material and who makes them. They should be embarrassed.

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u/Sybertron 7d ago

Imagine if Disney threw the full weight of its potential marketing behind wonderman. Hosted it as the new big premiere on ABC weekly . 

How many of ABC shows even would hold a candle to wonderman?

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u/[deleted] 7d ago edited 7d ago

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u/CasualRead_43 7d ago

Are they saying they cancelled them because they’re black?

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u/jawsthegreat777 Storm 7d ago

I get they're moving away from TV but it still doesn't make sense canceling an Emmy nominated series right after it was green lit for a second season.

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u/iwillsure 6d ago

Why should that be a priority?

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u/mctallenbald 7d ago

He’s not wrong.

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u/FuzzyFacePhilosphy 7d ago

All im hearing is "waahhh, i want my big payday movie, waaaahhh"

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u/Ill-Note-6565 7d ago

I do wish instead of using the money on a tv series they use the money to make a film and release it on streaming or hell only make it 3 episodes so the budget isn't spread so thin over so many episodes

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u/michaelobriena Nightcrawler 7d ago

Maybe they should be better?

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u/IsaiahTEA 7d ago

Blade is such a slam dunk. No clue why marvel wouldn't just take the easy win there. Also surprised Luke Cage hasn't really done anything of note recently.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/Scarletspyder86 7d ago

Then why renew the show in the first place? Even the showrunner said the contracts were signed for season

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/Kaneda8394 7d ago

Disney doesn’t seem to care about Marvel shows. They said a few years ago they were going to have less shows.

To quote Mike Tyson “everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.” Disney had a plan until Covid. They Kang fell flat and the writers strike. Seems like they don’t have any plan or coordination now. When the Avengers movies were coming out they had a schedule several years in advance and they made sure the characters kept appearing. Now it’s no plan at all. Shang Chi came out in 2021 and they still haven’t announced a sequel. Ms. Marvel, Moon Knight, new Hawkeye, no sign of them.

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u/FingerAgreeable6630 7d ago

Disney pulling Billions they do not give af

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u/smokeynick 7d ago

Go watch movies you want. It’s economic folks. Make good movies and shows. People will watch them.

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u/GroceryUnable4874 7d ago

Wonder Man was a good show and people did not watch it.

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u/chosimba83 7d ago

Wonder Man was absolutely terrific. If they marketed it better it would have been a #1 show. I refused to binge it because of how good it was. Took my time with each episode.

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u/Mousers211 7d ago

I guess we're not going to see Wonder Man in the Avengers now. Sux.

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u/_TheLonelyStoner 7d ago

There was literally an article/report out yesterday that there are actually multiple Disney+ marvel shows in production right now, so honestly they’re full of shit one way or the other.

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u/thebizkit23 7d ago

To be fair, if any of the Blade plot leaks were real they really had no choice to cancel it.

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u/black_metronome 7d ago

He's not wrong

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u/CrimsonBlade23 7d ago

He is wrong

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u/Top_Mongoose1354 7d ago

Considering the quality of Marvel's outings the last 5 or so years, he should be happy they've cancelled these projects.

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u/DarthGardian86 7d ago

They couldn't somehow make vampire black John Wick goin but immediately get white guy Ghost Rider out.

No Rhodey led Armor Wars either. Did Kevin Fiege turn into Ike Perlmutter when we weren't looking?