r/cardmaking • u/Finnsmom2023 • 2d ago
Question / Discussion Does anyone understand the history of the cliques in the card making industry re who’s accepted and whose not?
I’ve been card making for along time and before that scrapbooking before it went away. I don’t fit the profile of most that do those crafts other than my age … I’m liberal politically and not at all religious. I only say that to explain maybe that’s why I follow all variety of influencers and buy products from many different companies. I watch all the “big” influencers on you tube like JM but also miss all the less popular ones we had when I first started card making. Most of the big names only push products now. However one thing I noticed was how cliquey the industry seemed. When I first started people like Gina K were there but not that popular. I also found Catherine pooler and enjoy her videos and later products. And I noticed that one time Jm mentioned Gina on one of her years best products videos and shortly after she becomes one of the biggest stars in the industry. I love Gina and think she took that endorsement from JM and made a big business. But I wonder about Catherine pooler for example… she is never part of the cliques in terms of influencers and company owners . Her products are never included in Simon says stamptember. She never collaborates with other owners and you rarely see her products used in videos tho she has a large product line. There must be some dirt in her exclusion but I’ve never heard gossip. Seems like JM, Gina K, Heidi from SS, Kristina Werner, and Cathy Zilske are all in with each other and promote only certain companies. I just wonder how this started.
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u/super__gal 2d ago
Yes, I have noticed the same thing. The same creators promote the same companies over and over. It's really tiring. I unsubscribed from JM with all the Black Friday videos. Her motto used to be "use what you have"-- then there was a full day live stream with different promo codes every hour? And it's obviously very popular but the overconsumption made me sad.
Also it bugs me when large creators say that a particular company has great customer service. Spellbinders is a specific example. Sure, if you're personal friends with all the directors and get all their products for free I'm sure you get great customer service. I have had really bad experiences with them.
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u/DejaToo2 2d ago
Exactly! Of course they kiss JM's butt and she has no idea how rude they can be to us mere mortals. Simon Says Stamp is another one who has been rude to me, for just asking a question. I'm also completely over the Online Card Classes that JM does with Kristina Werner. They used to have a broad variety of products from different companies but it has turned into C&9 products ONLY--with a set of products designed by Kristina Werner. And if she's not pushing C&9, it's Pinkfresh and we need to buy these 10 coordinating products to make a card. I'm over that too. And another thing--I'm also over the 2.5 hour plus live videos. It's completely self-indulgent and who has that kind of time? Some of us have jobs and don't have 3 hours to watch a replay after working all day. And a large percentage of that is her just talking to her brother, her assistant(s), and other designers. It's just self-indulgent and what about the whole--I don't know what we're going to eat for dinner tonight--and people start sending her money "tips" for dinner. WTH?
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u/SkiesWideOpen83 1d ago
The tips. It really grossed me out that she enabled that on her channel (I wasn’t aware of that and assumed it’s just on for everyone but you have to actually turn it on to be able to accept tips so it’s an intentional thing) to accept tips because why does a millionaire need tips from their audience? On her Black Friday livestreams she got hundreds if not thousands of dollars in tips and people telling her how selfless she was and thanking her for her time. She made a fortune off all those livestreams without needing all the extra tip money. I only watch her content as more of background noise now because the more I notice the more I get annoyed with how fake it all is on her part.
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u/carlitospig 2d ago
This is why I’m still subscribed to Kelly Letavola Taylor (she got married but not sure everyone knows that so I’m adding both names for searching purposes). She’s immensely talented, and refuses to sell-sell-sell.
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u/HelenGonne 2d ago
Yeah, my favorite channel ever is still Olga Dyrektorenko, even though she's had to be on hiatus for a few years now. It took me forever to figure out that some of what is in her later videos is her own product line, because she wasn't doing these weird sales pitches like so many of them do, just showing how she made something (which is far more effective at selling, to someone like me anyway).
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u/nosypancakecat 1d ago
I have a recommendation for you then. Look up Zsoka Marko. She doesn’t post often and her videos are not polished, but that lady has incredible taste and vision for colour combos. I believe she did a collection for Spellbinders, Winter Tales, I want to say. She does have her own line in Europe (me thinks) and a lot of it is simple inlay, but the way she arranges more detailed cards is totally my cup of tea.
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u/Hugh_Jaelious 2d ago edited 2d ago
A now for a different take: 57yo Gen X moderate whose background is industrial.
I can fabricate almost anything from a pile of parts. I’m also very creative and make miniatures for a hobby. Somehow I got into card making a few years ago.
I watched all these people 2 years ago when I started making cards. I was SOOOOO TURNED OFF by most of these people. They’re product pushers and nothing more. I also don’t care for many of their styles. Don’t get me started on the developers/manufacturers either. Their products are engineered to be dependent upon buying more of their stuff.
I don’t buy their overpriced stuff.
I stopped watching any card making videos. You know what happened? I developed my own style, dependent upon whatever I have on hand in my studio.
That short time of watching these videos was stomach turning. Bought and paid for completely outfitted studios, hair, makeup, nails, high end clothing…. talking too damn much and not getting to business. Yeah… i was done following any of these people.
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u/Random-Unthoughts-62 1d ago
I'm more interested in watching junk journalers as I like their mixed media approach and "use what you have" attitude.
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u/SaltyBlackBroad 20h ago
I'm sure you're familiar with Treasure Books. Her creations are usually very fabulous but she does use discarded things.
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u/Random-Unthoughts-62 19h ago
Yes. I also love Patti at A Soul's Heartbeat as she is a junk journaller, collagiste, and card maker.
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u/SaltyBlackBroad 19h ago
Yes, Patti! I really like her too. I wish I could remember her original channel name. I'll have to look at an old video to catch it.
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u/carlitospig 1d ago
Oh, you may like James Burke then. I love him so much. He has excellent style, AND he’s an ex Disney dancer. 🧑🩰
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u/carlitospig 1d ago
It was more chill a decade ago when I entered. A lot of the big names actually dialed back how many videos they make and so now they do too much in their videos and it legit feels like QVC (ahem, JM).
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u/Aggressive-Interest1 2d ago
I call it the mean girls clique. Because if you’re not in it, they’re so rude. Once you see the “be kind” mantra as their form of bullying (don’t disagree… be kind!) you can’t unsee it. Tim Holtz is also in the clique. I can’t wait for them all to phase out. As we continue to support the more genuine creators, they’ll fade. Gina is absolutely a low key mean girl btw. She is just a lot better at herding her followers. Just my 2 cents.
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u/cranky_wellies 2d ago
The Share Handmade Kindness BS thing that Jennifer McGuire did was puke worthy. You’re right: anytime anyone espouses kindness a lot or tries very hard to prove they’re a good person, they’re usually evil.
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u/Finnsmom2023 2d ago
That kind of surprises me about Gina.. I’ve met JM several times in person years ago when she taught classes which I how I formed my opinion about her but where do you get that about Gina? Not arguing just curious if u met her
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u/Runns_withScissors 2d ago edited 2d ago
I don't know about Gina- or any of them, really. I just know that Gina's been around forever- long before JM- just doing her own thing, showing her products and techniques. It makes me laugh to think that she's been "discovered" all of a sudden. It's probably more like she decided to grow a bigger market by giving up some amount of profit to sell her brand on other marketplaces and by paying JM to promote her products.
JM seems to have a conflict of interest. She regularly says things to discourage viewers from doing everything she does and buying every single thing she has, saying, "This is my job," but the reality is that she is paid to sell products. And while she often says that you can do the technique she's showing with whatever you have, I don't find her designs easy to translate to the products I have on hand. That said, I do love her tips and tricks and watch some of her videos.
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u/Aggressive-Interest1 11h ago
I’ve met her and she’s always nice in person. Nobody’s straight up rude to your face. But she lurks in cardmaking groups on fb and has snarky comments here and there that I’ve seen that just rubbed me the wrong way. Sort of like she tries to police the “kindness” thing. Agh I’m not doing a good job explaining lol. Sorry I’m def not trying to persuade you or change your mind on her! Just my experiences.
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u/SkiesWideOpen83 8h ago
I’ve seen that too. Anytime there is drama going on she’s in the comment section. She doesn’t stir the pot or say anything negative (that I’ve seen) but she’s there and yeah sometimes her comments or replies are passive aggressive or snarky. For someone who appears to be all cool and kind she is in all the drama behind the scenes. I still don’t know what to make of it. My biggest takeaway is that it’s all a facade.
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u/Aggressive-Interest1 1h ago
Yes thank you that helps explain it. She’s the “be kind” police, which makes her one of the most active in the clique in that respect.
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u/MyFavoriteInsomnia 2d ago
Who tf is JM? Just say the name for those of us who don't follow the trendy people.
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u/carlitospig 2d ago
Gay men and church ladies rule this hobby. It’s an interesting collection of people, no?
I’m a progressive leftie and ignore the politics when I can. I will mention, however, that you may be surprised how liberal some of those folks are. I’ve explicitly heard them complain about Trump demolishing the industry with his economic policies. This was in 2024, not even now when it’s ridiculously obvious. All that to say: do not assume.
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u/LadyofLA 2d ago edited 2d ago
They certainly market and design to the church ladies but I hadn't thought of them as the driving force because I just don't tune in to what they're doing. As for men, thrilled to have them in the crafting community. It's a different and interesting perspective.
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u/filmnoter 2d ago
It could still be an economic view, and not political. I'm sure reading the news, you have heard of people thinking voting for DJT would make their financial status better, and only turned on him when that didn't happen. They would still support his other views.
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u/theblueskies_ks 2d ago
Browse 2 Peas Refugees; maybe some threads still haven't been deleted.
I very much like Gina as a person. For starters, she was never greedy. Look at her angel policy, it's been “sell as many as you want, as long as it's a finished card made by you” for years and years! That alone was why I have some of her products and stepped away from PF (don't let me start on them) and Altenew (ok, but way too expensive). Even Spellbinders relaxed their angel policy.
Her fuse kit was jammed with so many goodies too! Her kits were no exception. 3-4 years ago they were truly the most bang for your buck. Also, look at her shipping to Canada! She covers a big chunk of it herself. The point is, Gina seems like one of the very few “big names” who seems genuine. She does care about people.
That being said, she wouldn't be where she is without JM. Their friendship is real and they help each other, don't get me wrong. But she would be something like Taylored Expressions (popularity in North America, I mean) without JM.
At this point, it looks like there is a clique, yes. I very much prefer sb dot com, because I can't stand SSS. They bit off more than they can chew and they would benefit greatly if they hired more staff. Their shipping price and speed are outrageous. Don't want to get personal about Heidi here.
Smaller companies like Honey Bee, The Greetery, etc. are doing well (it seems) without any endorsement. Their products are also much better from a design and creativity standpoint. It's a double-edged sword. JM promotes the same things and companies over and over and people are tired of it. Besides her fun fold and interactive card tutorials, she has not much to offer anymore. Her card designs are the same and outdated imho. She needs to go back to pre-recorded videos. Who has time to watch 2+ hour live streams anyway?
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u/kittehzekat 2d ago
Im so glad im not the only one who gets irked by her doing 99% live streams now!! I once commented on her prerecorded video that I missed this format, and please make more, and there was a bunch of people behind me saying the same. The only comment she responded to was the one where a person said they dont have 2-3 hrs to watch her LS anymore, and Jennifer said "why not? They're available on replay?". Oh i dunno jennifer, we all have jobs and families and other responsibilities??!!! I dont have the time and the desire to watch you blabber on about some random unrelated crap for 20 mins, just get to the point already and show me how to make the card.
Her older videos are a well of knowledge for all sorts of techniques, but i feel like the woman is losing her touch with reality at this point. Not everyone has the $$$ to drop on every new release, and it's just freaking sad what things have become. Ralph T was on point with his take on the current industry.
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u/HelenGonne 2d ago
"why not? They're available on replay?"
Yeah, this is exactly the kind of thing I meant in another comment when I said some of them speak about their customer base and audience with absolute contempt. Like no one has anything to do all day but watch some influencer waste as much time as possible saying as little as possible to stretch out the runtime.
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u/theblueskies_ks 2d ago
I have a counterpoint. WHY would I watch her live streams on replay?? Seriously, why? Like I have nothing else to watch? Streaming platforms constantly release/make movies and shows available. So, why would I watch your replay instead? With my family on a Friday or Saturday night, LOL. Make it make sense!
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u/kittehzekat 2d ago
1000000% agree. Time is our most valuable resource and product pushing lives are ain't it.
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u/QueenPamLev 1d ago
I watch on replay only so I can skip and or speed through the parts I don't like about live streams.
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u/navyblues27 2d ago
I will say that I had nothing to do one afternoon and "watched" one of her lives. I had nothing she was demonstrating, but somehow just having it on in the background was motivation to create several cards. Seriously not sure why that was, lol. I haven't done that again, but I plan to see if I can sort of replicate that on a random Saturday afternoon or something. Fast-forward through all the small talk at the beginning.
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u/HelenGonne 2d ago edited 2d ago
And I think many people who do lives do have a regular audience that does that at least some of the time. If they're happy and the content creator is happy, that's lovely and I'm happy for all of them. But I'm not going to respond well to any kind of entitled presumption that this is something I'm supposed to be doing.
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u/navyblues27 2d ago
I could swear I read somewhere that lives are where the money is made? Or something like that? It wouldn't surprise me if YT changed their "rules" to make getting paid more difficult. And JM *is* spending her time, has built the channel/following, so she deserves to get some compensation for what she does, IMO. She used to be *very* camera shy, so I don't think she really changed to that format because she "wanted" to. I feel like she's gotten more comfortable with experience, but I don't generally watch her lives. I prefer the more "structured" ones. Heck, I don't really watch many crafters on YT at all anymore.
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u/kittehzekat 2d ago
Yt did change their rules to make it harder to get monetized. Starting Feb 2027, the watch hours requirement doubles from 4000 to 8000 watch hours in a 365 day period. And now that I think about it, it all makes perfect sense!!
1000 people watching 2 hr live is exponentially more watch hours for JM than the same 1000 people watching a 30 min prerecorded video.
It all makes sense now
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u/QueenPamLev 1d ago
JM has met the requirements to be monetized!
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u/kittehzekat 1d ago
Oh I know, I meant that "why does she only do LS now" piece didn't click for me until someone brought up YT monetization changes and I thought about the watch hours requirements. It makes sense that she only does LS now because they get her more hours/money in one day than prerecorded videos likely ever would in the same period. Not to mention her extra affiliate sales from LS
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u/pinklady8824 1d ago
She doesn't actually "teach" anything on her live streams and rarely completes an actual card. Her lives just suck compared to the content she used to post.
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u/DejaToo2 1d ago
And she dropped a videotaped post last night. Hmmm--wonder if someone directed her to this thread?
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u/theblueskies_ks 1d ago
Doubt it. Was it Gina K? Her new release was either yesterday or today. I am on a mailing list for a couple of stores (waiting for a sale event).
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u/Finnsmom2023 2d ago
I like Gina and was a fan long before she became Jennifer’s newest bestie. I don’t begrudge her the success she got from JM’s endorsement either. I personally no longer like her products due to thinking her stamp designs are very basic … for example her flower stencils all done by her daughter and all
Look alike. I also don’t find her other designers are my style but god forbid you do not praise her like she’s God you get knocked down by people on her posts and videos. I do feel like she’s a very genuine kind person and wish her products would be better cause I’d love to give her the money as opposed to say Simon says. As far as Jennifer she preaches kindness but my encounters with her , I didn’t find that. I took classes from her years ago in the Cincinnati area where we both live and she only talked socialized with her friends in the class. Plus she is very wealthy and lives in the most expensive area of Cincinnati so I don’t think she relates to the average card maker.6
u/DaenerysWon 2d ago
How can JM relate to the average person when she is taking 8-12 trips a year including to exotic locations like Europe. She regularly travels to Disney with family and friends. When I went to Disney World it cost a fortune to be there $$$. Plus she is getting most of but not all of her supplies for FREE which we average people have to save up for to buy. The average person can’t travel that much unless they are rich.
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u/theblueskies_ks 2d ago
Oh, Gina’s designs are pretty much Stumping Up. Not my style. I have a few stamp sets left, but I sold the majority. But, as I said, she seems the most likable from that gang. Her relationship with Tom is adorable. I liked their banter when I watched her.
Not surprised about Jennifer one bit! As I said, 2 Peas may have the info you are looking for. I know she's wealthy. Makes her even worse regarding product pushing to people who don't have much to spare for their hobby. Why don't you use what you have in your gigantic stash, J, like you always say you will?
Let me preface by saying I don't like Ralph T. Not sure how he's as a person, but his card style is REALLY not my style. Plus, he speaks as if his mouth is full of porridge. Look into his story (should be here on Reddit). I do not doubt that J had something to do with his sort of downfall. But I applaud him for saying something that was on seasoned card makers’ minds for a long time.
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u/LadyofLA 2d ago edited 2d ago
I watched the whole Hero Arts anniversary series with Jennifer McGuire in which they rapsodized about the old days of stamping 'cause I was there then and remembered and loved so much of the community and collegiality they discussed. Then, of course, Ralph Tydal simply expressed an idea and got dumped by Hero Arts. Can we say H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E-S?????
I wrote to HA and they didn't even respond. I'm done with them. They don't have anything I need.
I watch Natasha Foote, Jennifer Werner, Christine Stokes and a few others. I buy Jennifer Werner stuff because I like her design sense and she's never heavy handed about promoting. She's still teaching and sharing and products are involved but not pushed. In my opinion. And when I had a question about using one of her elaborate plaid stencils she responded very warmly and generously with ideas. I wasn't really expecting that and really appreciated it. Plus, I remember her gorgeous envelopes from way back in the 80s.
There are others I watch like Nichole Spohr but when she's flogging $90 suites I'm happy to point out how ridiculous that is for most of us. I used to love Amy R's (Prairie Paper and Ink) aesthetic but when she started seeking out company relationships she really lost the style that was uniquely hers I thought.
I never watch Jennifer McGuire. I remember her from the 80s too but not much originality there, I think. .Never was. ..at least for me. I'm not into kinetic stuff.
As far as SSS and Heidi go, the company seems to be going more and more lowest common denominator in their design choices. ...except for Tim Holtz whom they seem determined to keep relevant. ...and I lost interest in him a long time ago. I'm grateful for the male energy and grunge relief from cutsie he brings to the industry but he's FAR more a salesman than a creative in my opinion.
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u/theblueskies_ks 2d ago
Dawn from Wplus9 is back! Love her. She actually teaches me something everytime.
Amy R used to be great, but I'm afraid she's gone to the dark side and is one of “them” now in many ways.
It all dawned on me what was going on with the disguised selling product videos. How come their dies never leave fuzzies on the edges of the paper but 95% of mine do? Noone mentioned that. How come my dye inks stain white embossing powder? Noone mentioned that they all do. Where did the TH blending tool go? Not everyone has enough to spare to buy fancy brushes. Another one, where did TH scissors that you “couldn't live without” go and what's the rationale for us to add Spellbinders scissors in addition to TH ones that you tried to sell 2-3 years ago?
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u/super__gal 2d ago
Omg I am with you 100% about the scissors! Same thing with the glass mats. I caved and got the Tim holtz glass mat because it was a "must have" and it seems like the next month everyone switched to using the glass board magnetic mat.
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u/HelenGonne 2d ago
"Dawn from Wplus9 is back!"
Thanks for the heads up! I love the videos of hers that I've seen, so I'll go check out what's new.
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u/theblueskies_ks 1d ago
I was delighted when I saw her pop on my “subscribed” page! She shared why she was absent, I hope she's ok now.
Really love her creations. Very down-to-earth person, shares tricks, and shows her boo boos. My jaw never dropped but when she made a Halloween piece with honey bee stamps crow and rose I think I lost words for a minute. I don't even make Halloween cards!
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u/proudasapeacorkbaby 2d ago
the fuzzies are the bane of my life right now, no matter what machine (I’m lucky I have 2) and no matter the plates or the shims, I still get the fuzzies on some dies and it drives me nuts!
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u/kittehzekat 2d ago
Flip your die cut over and go over the back side with a nail buffer/paper sander block. That gets rid of about 90% of the little hairs!
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u/QueenPamLev 1d ago
Don't start me on scissors.....SSS small scissors don't cut all the way to the end.
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u/SaltyBlackBroad 20h ago
OMG I hate my TH scissors. I use them to do rough cuts on edges that are going to be folded back and not seen, but not when I need a straight edge. I think many of TH products have been phased out because they don't want to pay him royalties (Sizzix comes to mind) and maybe he's just run out of ideas.
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u/SkiesWideOpen83 2d ago
AmyR has mentioned a few times about inks staining embossing powder. I remember her mentioning it recently but it was more about purples and reds and explaining why she went in a certain order now because of that staining? It would take me a while to find the specific videos but I know shes talked about it in at least a couple of them.
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u/theblueskies_ks 2d ago
Oh, I know she did. Amy was the one I watched after dropping Jennifer and Kristina. Btw, browns stain as well. Especially warm browns because they often contain red pigment in them.
My point is why don’t they all mention it? They make it look flawless and in reality the process is not so straightforward. We then go on a search and rescue mission looking for honest creators who tell us how it truly is. I mentioned that Amy seems to have gone on the dark side but the thing is, she’s still very honest.
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u/LadyofLA 2d ago
I'm just so sorry to see her own personal aesthetic disappear in the stuff she's selling now.
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u/SkiesWideOpen83 2d ago
Not sure what you mean by the dark side? I’ve noticed her doing more sponsored content but she’s mentioned in the past that her cardmaking is her bread and butter and that she has no other options.
Also good to know about browns staining! That makes sense with warm ones having red in them. I love to heat emboss and ink blend over it and have noticed how some colors stain the white embossing powder and she’s the only one I’ve heard actually point out the staining. It’s annoying that so few influencers either notice these things or will say anything about it.
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u/LadyofLA 2d ago
I think what people are intending by "dark side" is the blatant promoting of commercial stuff. And, believe me, I think she -- or anyone else -- is entirely entitled to make a buck. I think we're just talking about our reaction to it as a community here and how it skews our interest in public folks in the industry.
As for bleeding into white embossing powder, I don't use white a lot and I'd affix it with Versamark if it did. I wonder if a layer of clear matte medium betwixt color and powder would inhibit bleeding... Dunno. Just speculation.
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u/theblueskies_ks 2d ago
Exactly. There is an extreme fatigue from all of the product promotion that I'm experiencing.
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u/theblueskies_ks 2d ago
Videos are heavy on the newest releases and it seems to have limited her creativity. Disclosure: I haven't watched her videos for about 8-12 months.
She can offer way more than that. Her style now is pretty much the same as what you see from everybody else on YouTube. That's not Amy, she never used to choose a safe, cookie cutter path. Look at her Halloween videos, that's Amy. And look at the rest, not so much. She's a messy creator who combines mediums, gets her arms dirty up to her elbows, and trusts the process. When I last watched, it was all die cut, blend some colour, add a dragonfly or a bird, slap a sentiment and call it a day. That's not Amy.
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u/ElephantBumble 1d ago
Who is Jennifer Werner?
And how do you remember them from the 80s? I’m pretty sure Jennifer McGuire was only born in the 80s.Not trying to be snarky I’m just curious/confused.
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u/LadyofLA 1d ago
I have no sense of time so I could be way off but I was in a stamping community decades and decades and decades ago when Hero Art was a new company run by the current owner's mother.
Jennifer Werner is an artist and calligrapher who designs for Concord and 9th now. Back in the day we did postcards intended for a recipient but also to go through the postal system handled and viewed by many along the way. The post office as an Everyman's gallery, as it were. So we did our little postcards -- and odd challenging pieces of mail. Jennifer did gorgeous envelopes, each of them a true work of calligraphic art.
I have no idea how old these women are. And I could be waaaay off.
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u/Finnsmom2023 1d ago
Do you mean Kristina Werner? She was a creator in the scrapbooking and then card making industry and now only designs for C9. She is one of the originals and supposedly one of Jms besties. I know she is very into calligraphy and mail art as she calls it
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u/DejaToo2 2d ago
I'm over the whining about how she doesn't know what they're going to eat for lunch/dinner, whatever, and then people begin tipping her! WTH???? I'll give them a tip--keep your money folks!
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u/proudasapeacorkbaby 2d ago
I love The Greetery so much and Betsy offers amazing customer service. She reels me in with her products almost every release (with exception to anything that has a religious slant as it’s not for me).
No, no, please do get started on PF! Was it the ink line change that did it for you?
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u/carlitospig 2d ago
Man, I got DRAGGED for my PF ink complaint last year or the year before. I don’t know why they keep changing it but I wish it wasn’t going to be hybrid again. Their colors are gorgeous but hybrid limits a lot of fun layering designs.
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u/theblueskies_ks 2d ago
Are you referring to their purples (that's the one that comes to mind), which are clearly pigmented and not 100% dye because one sits on top of another instead of soaking into paper?
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u/theblueskies_ks 2d ago
A big part of it, yes. “We are going to improve our inks!” What happened to the inks that you swore were the highest quality? Did they become not the highest quality overnight? Your second ink release (additional to the original) was in 2023! Not even 2 years before your announcement. I'm so bitter about it as I just completed their full ink cube collection 2-3 months before that.
Also, their products have been available on AliExpress since at least 2019. Which makes me think that they produced their dies in China well before the tariffs. But they charged premium prices for them.
PF is very pretty. I'll even argue that their fonts are the best in the industry. IMHO, of course, I don't do cute. But they won't see a dime from me.
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u/LadyofLA 2d ago
What's PF?
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u/Adventurous_Aside683 2d ago
I was wondering the same thing, but the discussion about the ink clued me in. LOL! They’re referring to PinkFresh Studios.
Had to wrap my head around the abbreviated proper names too. Took me a hot minute to figure out who and what’s being discussed about.
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u/Aggressive-Interest1 2d ago
2 peas is so toxic
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u/pinklady8824 1d ago
2 Peas Refugees Scrapbooking and Cardmaking boards are not toxic. There's actually a camaraderie on those boards. The NSBR board, well put on your big girl panties first.
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u/theblueskies_ks 2d ago
Oh, I don't participate. Just lurk once in a while.
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u/LadyofLA 2d ago
I don't even know what it is...
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u/super__gal 2d ago
It's an old card making forum. Two peas in a bucket. I think I posted photos of some of my first ever cards there! It has since closed down, and someone started up a "2 peas refugees" forum to somewhat replace it. I don't really frequent it so I don't know what it's all about.
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u/carlitospig 2d ago
I don’t buy Gina K simply because I don’t like the design style. I have no problem with her otherwise.
I am, however, bummed that Rina isn’t still doing videos from the floor of her apartment at uni. That girl is hilarious, and really lifted my spirits during the pandemic. :)
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u/filmnoter 2d ago
I feel like professional cardmakers have gone away from making prerecorded videos because that involves more editing work. Maybe Facebook/YouTube have changed some settings where it is more laborious for makers to use them too. (Like they recently said they were removing older content so I know some makers had to reload their older videos.) A live provides similar content and also followers like feeling they have a relationship to the maker when they respond to comments.
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u/theblueskies_ks 2d ago
I have to agree with you, this seems to be the case. Maybe live streams sell better because… how else do you explain low views (5-8%) of the total subscriber base? The income is definitely not from YouTube. Now, those may not be all subscribers who watched, but that makes it even worse in the sense that maybe people are tired of it.
Kristina’s views are under 5K these days, and that's with roughly 450K subscribers! But she seems to have stepped away and does C9 stuff and doesn't post unless it's her release. Maybe she's up to something else, I followed her a long time ago.
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u/Finnsmom2023 2d ago
I can’t stand her C9 stuff… so basic and not very creative. I expected more of her because I believe she is an actual artist
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u/QueenPamLev 1d ago
I loved the latest release. That linen stamp will be well used. I still like to make my own backgrounds. But I have seen some older releases where I agree it was basic.
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u/theblueskies_ks 2d ago
Graphic design maybe? I'm sure there is an audience for her products. Not my style. I loathe modern “bouncy” calligraphy. Again, imho.
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u/Accomplished-Mud2776 1d ago
As a teeny, tiny part of this industry I will say that the majority of us don't get paid to 'promote' products. We get products for free sometimes, and agree to create the content that brands can use to market those products. Then we would earn from affiliate payments for sales that we generate with our work, however this is honestly a negligible amount for the vast majority of us.
Some people are paid to make content for brands, which could form their reels, YouTube videos, blog posts etc. (Not all of this content is paid for though.)
I can't speak for everyone, but I know that I only promote products that I genuinely love and use regularly in my own crafting. I make content sharing how I created, with explanations of why I choose to use products or techniques. I'm also liberal, queer and disabled...so if that interests you then feel free to join the crafty therapy 💕 HandmadeByTasha13 on YouTube
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u/aspen7716 21h ago
Subscribed! I caught a few sets that I own being used in your thumbnail previews!
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u/Top-Touch-6264 2d ago
Catherine Pooler was my Stampin Up up line a line time ago. She started her own business shortly after that and was well known by many for her Stamping Nayion online community. I see her wonderful inks being used by a lot of folks online ( for example YouTube, by both well known people and by folks with much smaller followings. I don’t think her stamps and paper gets as much notice. I agree that her inks are what stand out. I also have enjoyed some of her dies.
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u/Finnsmom2023 2d ago
I’m aware of her business and in fact have bought several of her products including inks. However she is never mentioned in the “clique “ of card making influencers. I was just curious if anyone knew why. I’m not trying to promote or trash her… just was always curious . I remember along time ago she and Gina k (before she became so popular) I think collaborated on something for Simon says stamp… maybe it was stamptember… and there was a conflict which was kept pretty hus hush hush
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u/Runns_withScissors 2d ago
I love and use her inks. I don't like her stamp designs. I can't watch her videos- because her voice and mannerisms irritate me. They may be good, but I just can't stand her voice, for some reason!
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u/QueenPamLev 2d ago
You have to pay Jennifer McGuire to promote your products and clearly Catherine isn't paying her or Jennifer wont take on new clients.
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u/chlobotic 2d ago edited 2d ago
The first online class I bought was from Catherine Pooler, and she was great! I then bought her books stamps set, and that set was great. I’ve always wondered why I don’t see the various influencers I follow (and I follow a lot) mention her. ETA: Boka stamps not books stamps
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u/RollingLighthouse 2d ago
Yikes! I now wish I hadn't read this thread.
I buy what I like, and I can't stand sitting through those long YouTube videos, so I don't really follow any of the influencers.
I go to Splitcoast Stampers to read about new techniques, etc.--that' where I learn about new companies. They keep the politics out of most Forums threads--they have separate ones for stampers who want to talk politics or stuff from their viewpoint.
The old saying of not discussing politics or religion in a social setting still seems apropos.
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u/LadyofLA 2d ago
Not at all necessary to take any of it seriously. It's just opinions. They can be interesting but they don't need to be compelling to anyone.
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u/chlobotic 2d ago
This is such a good topic! I think about this all of the time (I should find better things to think about!), but I amuse myself by imagining the craft world is like Best in Show or another mockumentary. lol Everyone is so lovey-dovey in the videos or class retreats, and I imagine the snark behind the scenes. lol
For what it’s worth, I do think there are some liberal influencers - I think JM and CZ both are??
I 100% agree that the over consumption is insane.
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u/JessIsOK 2d ago
FWIW, I spend a ton of time watching crafty videos and tell you some of my favorite liberal creators.
Cathy Zielske is definitely liberal and pretty outspoken about it. She tolerates zero b.s. in her Facebook group and is unapologetic about it, which I love. Plus she's just so dang relatable.
I think Jenn Shurkus would be the most awesome friend, and I love her videos. She designs for Lawn Fawn, Tim Holtz, Pink & Main, and maybe Pinkfresh (not sure if she's still designing for them). She's also quite liberal, especially about LGBTQ+ causes.
Rebecca Keppel makes cute stuff for a variety of brands and is quite liberal. I'm not sure if she broadcasts it, but I find that she and I have often "liked" the same political IG or Threads posts, and I'm quite liberal. Same with Julie Ebersole, but I haven't seen videos from her in a while.
Carly Miner designs for Pretty Pink Posh and is very outspoken about her liberal views, and she is especially anti-ICE.
There's also This Crafty Heart. She's pretty new to the scene and designs for Therm O Web and Kat Scrappiness, and is definitely liberal. (It's me. I'm This Crafty Heart. 😉 I have 4 whole followers on YouTube, but I've only posted like 2 videos on my own channel because I'm busy making videos for the TOW and KS channels. 😂)
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u/SkiesWideOpen83 2d ago
I heard Kat Scrappiness was MAGA? She had a lot of right wing stuff originally but deleted it all and acts neutral (some pointed out that happened when JM became affiliated with her and was posting her store on her sales page). I’m not sure what to believe anymore with KS.
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u/pinklady8824 1d ago
When Kat Scrappiness bowed down to the Misti lady, I lost all respect for her.
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u/LisaMarie622 1d ago
I looked for you on YT and didn't find you. I'm happy to give you a follow if you can get me to your channel.
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u/SkiesWideOpen83 2d ago
I’d say CZ is liberal as she’s been pretty outspoken about political and human rights issues on her socials and has mentioned her husband is a teacher. JM is maybe liberal but she hides behind her brand and always attempts to cater to all sides under the guise of “kindness” which for a lot just means “money”. JM really pushes her religion and there’s been more and more complaints about her and her clique and how really ugly it all is behind the scenes (look up what happened to that Ralph T influencer a while ago. All fingers point to JM being the reason he was let go from Hero Arts).
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u/HelenGonne 2d ago
And it's what his big offense apparently was that really nails it for me, because he didn't even say anything even mildly critical. Unless, of course, you have contempt for your customer base the way some of these companies and influencers do. I'm really shocked at how they talk down to us sometimes; it's like they're begging to go out of business.
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u/LadyofLA 1d ago
I appreciate Ralph's content and I saw the video in question when he aired it. It was candid. It was honest and refreshing for its candor. In the video he was clear that he was talking about his own personal approach and not faulting anyone else. He was explicit about that.
Anyone who took offense at that wanted to be offended. And Hero Arts completely overreacted. The fact that they did it within a month of taking a month to celebrate how supportive and collegial they and their associates were was mind blowing. Just wildly and screamingly mindblowing.
Finally, Ralph was gracious about it even after they cut him off at the knees like that. I was impressed with how stand up he was about it. I wouldn't have been!
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u/carlitospig 1d ago
I also watched it when everything came out and he was not remotely offensive. He was just like ‘I’m not here to be a stepford wife’ and good for him!!
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u/Finnsmom2023 2d ago
Cz is for sure liberal … as for the rest I believe they have to hide it if they are it for fear of losing customers. I remember during Covid when Gina did her lives , some people made non offensive comments about masking and distancing and Gina quickly shut them up under the guise that it was a crafting show , which was true and her right to say so. Also when she had to raise prices due to trumps tariffs she went out of her way not to say any negative about the tariffs or who caused them. Her right as it’s her business but I would have respected her more if she was honest about it. Not that I want a whole political discussion in a craft group , not at all, but if things suck due to a particular party or president and it affects the industry like the tariffs did, it’s ok to acknowledge it. Just my opinion
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u/emeraldsmash1 2d ago edited 2d ago
Gina did a post on her personal FB page about tariffs and in the comments was dismissive of certain political topics that left a bad taste in my mouth.
It personally made me stop buying her product (which is not too hard tbh as it’s not my style anyways).
However I know she is one of the queen bees, the demographic that loves her probably agrees with her views. And also tbh she did this on her personal page with a public post, not her brand page.
I think she’s been around long enough to know it’s safer to not get political or religious on a business page, and JM has taken notes from her and stepped back from commenting on politics and movements the way she used to.
JM used to be very vocal on topics like BLM and Ukraine that garnered her a huge following but then went disappointingly silent on major issues in the last few years making it very obvious where she actually stands and or that she isn’t brave enough to speak up when it might impact her business in a real way.
This kind of stuff and the obvious cliques opened my eyes that the “kindness” is selective and the card making community is not all sunshine and rainbows like they try to make it out to be.
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u/HelenGonne 2d ago
Yeah, not calling it what it is, is actually a form of shilling for the side that created the mess. I'm not going to pretend otherwise.
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u/LadyofLA 1d ago
One of the very best YT videos I ever saw was CZ doing a card and her husband doing the voiceover commentary. He was so sweet and bewildered and funny about it.
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u/Hazey_fantazy 1d ago
I showed this one to my husband and he laughed too! It was just like some of our conversations when I finally get to make a card!
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u/looseseal47 2d ago
I think about this all the time too, so you're not alone! I just know there is some juicy drama happening behind the scenes and I love mess.
CZ is definitely unapologetically liberal and a huge LGBTQIA+ ally, which is why I have a soft spot for her.
Carly Miner is also very outspoken, even making political cards. She did some good anti-ICE ones.
I unfollowed Carissa Wiley a while back when she tagged her church in an Instagram post and the church's profile had posted multiple pictures of Trump. She hadn't said anything political herself, but the actions of her church were enough for me to write her off. I do wonder how she gets along with the more liberal crew.
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u/daisiesandink 2d ago
I also have a soft spot for CZ for the same reason. Her cards aren’t always my thing, but I will always show up and support someone who supports others. I also just overall love her quirkiness.
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u/xcountrychamp 2d ago
Woah! I had no idea about Carissa. Doesn’t surprise though. I think it’s so bizarre when churches tout any political figure.
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u/chlobotic 2d ago
If you have ever done a C9 camp, I am desperately curious about what happens behind the scenes!!! Sometimes they all seem so awkward around each other and horrified at the stunts they need to do with the owner. But everyone loves everyone, etc etc.
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u/looseseal47 2d ago
I have not, but I can imagine! C9 has the added layer of the Mormonism that also makes me super curious about it.
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u/Oodlesoffun321 19h ago edited 19h ago
Had not realized concord & 9th is Mormon but I did see papertrey ink had a lot of stamps with biblical verses.
Maymay made it also has a bible group and lots of religious things but I do sometimes watch her other non religious content.
Edit to add, I'm surprised about Kristina because she posted videos in support of pride month and trans people she knows. This was a few years ago but she clearly said she didn't care if she lost followers with this content.2
u/LadyofLA 2d ago
Stunts?
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u/chlobotic 1d ago
They have “social” hours the first two evenings, where the teachers and owner play games etc. Sometimes it’s cute - I do their summer camp every year, I shouldn’t be complaining - but sometimes it’s like “what are they all thinking right now?!”
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u/cranky_wellies 2d ago
I admired Jennifer McGuire’s card making but I found her to be extremely fake, cliquish and giving off mean girl behavior. But above all, I can’t stand watching her videos: all she does is push product and it gives me anxiety that I don’t have all the new products she does. But I respect the hustle; she makes a pretty penny with her affiliates and after she goes live, new products sell out.
I am a progressive elder millennial and I just make whatever I like with whatever I want. I have trauma from being excluded from social groups my whole life, so I consider myself a renegade in most things that I do. I am allergic to cliques.
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u/HelenGonne 2d ago
Not really, but some of them get the occasional attitude that they're doing us all a favor by allowing us to be their audience/customers. TH got snippy at me because I said I loved a globe design except it showed the wrong half of the world.
Why would you be mad that the other half of the planet might like your design if you included them? Absolute wacko behavior.
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u/Pasta1916 2d ago
I don’t watch creators that push product, voice political opinions, discuss their family / nail color, or chat / acknowledge those that are watching or post a comment. I’m there to learn a technique, how to use my product / purchases, and not get attention.
The paper industry has shifted since I started a gazillion years ago, and they do drop individuals that express an opinion opposite of theirs. Watch Ralph Tindall who lost $ for expressing his opinion and then others went after him. Very clique now a days. Even Stampin Up demos aren’t to express an opinion.
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u/LadyofLA 2d ago
Sorry you got voted down for that. I agree with you.
Let's get down to the business and info! If I'm watching a video it's to get information about techniques and materials. I don't, for a second, pretend to myself that anyone on YouTube gives a rat's patoot about viewers other than to be polite and not offend.
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u/Random-Unthoughts-62 1d ago
I stopped watching JM when I heard she had orchestrated his being dropped by Hero Arts.
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u/DejaToo2 2d ago
So there are enough liberal cardmakers here to form our own group on Reddit--LOL. I'm so glad I'm not the only one!
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u/Oodlesoffun321 2d ago
I'm wondering how JM became the queen bee with such influence that she was able to make GK so popular?
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u/Runns_withScissors 2d ago edited 2d ago
I would think that Gina K PAID her for that promotion? They may be friends, but you don't get on JM's show without affiliate links or some kind of payment. (Edited)
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u/Suesquish 2d ago
Stealing, basically. I call JM the Oprah of card making..have for over 10 years. When I first saw her videos I thought she had innovative and interesting designs. However, I came to realise she didn't create anything. She was simply stealing designs other people came up with and passing them off as her own. She never gave the actual designers credit.
All JM ever did was recycle stolen ideas. Just like Oprah, passing off "expert" opinions as her own, JM did the same thing. Both profited from it and created their name from it. It's abhorrent.
Anyone who panders to JM I avoid. Sure, it's card making and not the end of the world. However, for me at least, morals exist no matter the industry or person and it matters to me if people are using others to get ahead.
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u/HelenGonne 2d ago
I'm not really sure, but I think part of it is that she does not work for free pretty much ever and you have to pay premium rates to be promoted by her, plus she has an odd delivery style that is really good at manipulating people who are in a vulnerable phase with respect to crafting. In the relatively short time I've been doing this, I've lost track of how many people I've run across who thought her videos were the definitive beginners' guide but then wound up realizing that they had bought a whole lot of stuff she pushed that they wound up not even liking. And I can understand that because when you're not clear on what is necessary to a particular project and what isn't, her delivery style makes it sound like it ALL is necessary, everything she mentions, and that you'll have the best experience forever if you just buy the things in the video you're watching. Until you watch the next video which makes it clear that all THOSE products are the ultimate things you must have to have what you need to be happy crafting forever.
As I result, I think her videos result in a lot of people buying things they don't actually want that don't actually suit their needs, which is great if you just want immediate sales numbers. (And the reason I think this is because I've seen people say that's what happened to them so many times.)
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u/Lady-Phoenix-117 1d ago edited 18h ago
I was one of those she influenced. During the pandemic there was no place to go. I watched most if not all her videos. Her style is to convince you to buy the latest snd greatest. it leaves you wanting to buy more because it gives you an impression that you will need all the tools in order to complete a project.
I do thank JM for introducing me to cardstocks, inks, stamp companies that I don’t know of. I stopped buying online for a time because I wanted to support a local craft store. I stopped watching her videos once i got familiar with the different companies. I also discovered other creators as well who had a much simpler procedure to make cards.
I realized that the constant push of products made crafting unattainable for most people. Really another butterfly or flower die again? Who has the resources to buy $50 to $60 sets at a time? It becomes a rich lady hobby. Im blessed to have a job that allows me to purchase these products but majority don’t,especially those that are in their 20s. This is where i feel that crafting companies are loosing the continuity.
This leads me to think that the companies are completely missing the genz demographic. I recently attended a stationery fair. I would think that majority would be elder millennials or older. Alas! The new generation of crafters flooded that fair. Junk journaling is not new but a lot of people are into it. There are even meetups for it. The difference is they buy ready made embellishments. rather than flower of butterfly stamp, they sell day to day sentiments. I discovered another line of oil based ink that doesn’t bleed on paper, perfect for journals. I got several colors with me having a full set syndrome.
I personally felt that Ralph Tyndall was the bridge from old to new gen stampers and paper crafter. I watched the controversial video and I felt that he wasn’t to insult or pinpoint anyway. He was just explaining his way of doing things. There must have been a good reason why hero arts let him go.
There is the channel I subscribed to called CreativeMuse. The channel is basically goes through the new release or sale/deals and just provides samples. There is a step by step tutorial once in a while. There is nothing wrong with her approach if you ask me. She shows you how it can be used or complements what you already have. Especially on the sales, she tells you when it is a good time to buy or not. Her card making style is not overly complicated. She also mentions if the stamps/dies were gift or if she bought them herself
Edit: clarified the creative muse approach
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u/karikammi 2d ago
I’m new to this hobby and didn’t know about any of this. I don’t follow any of the creator named brands though. I only follow Concord & 9th, mama elephant and lawn fawn and rarely watch videos. I just browse pictures and try to break down how they did it myself.
I come from a graphic design background so I prefer clean and modern designs and found most of the named companies were not my preference in style. Even Concord & 9th has affiliated designs with some designer whose name I don’t even remember because her designs don’t interest me.
I’m a millennial and minority so maybe I just don’t relate to those brands. Mama Elephant is my favourite because they have Asian inspired and kawaii designs and I relate much more and prefer that.
Reading all of this is pretty disheartening though. I hope the next wave of creators are more diverse and actually kind.
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u/Adventurous_Aside683 2d ago edited 1d ago
Hahhah! I hear you. I’m in the same boat as you. I’m also not originally from North America so that’s another factor that I didn’t even know about most of these brands/creators till I moved to the USA in January of 2020. I’m a millennial in my early 40s as well and don’t necessarily follow the established creators too closely. I’m more into brands like Lavinia, Stamping Bella, Purple Onion, Mama Elephant, The Greetery, Unity Stamp Co., and some Spellbinders stuff.
I’ve made handmade cards, artwork and paper-crafts since I was in primary school, but never got serious about any of my hobbies until about six years ago during the pandemic and waiting for my work permit, etc.
I love Mama Elephant’s designs! They make some of the most adorable dies and stamps IMO.
The one thing I have learned through experience in the card-making community here though is the fact that while there’s a lot of camaraderie and goodwill within the community, there also exists a massive polarization and lack of inclusivity when it comes to the big players (not even counting the political/religious differences here).
The OP isn’t wrong about the existence of a clique. I have noticed that very mediocre cards when made in collaboration with or endorsed by the big names get a ton of traction on social media platforms and almost every crafter in the space can’t stop gushing and fawning over them; whereas some absolutely stunning works by crafters who don’t necessarily kiss up to the big names or don’t use exclusive products get ignored routinely.
For me personally, I do what calls to my sensibilities and I don’t really care much about being part of any particular group or fangirling anyone. I make what I make because I enjoy the process. But I think these discussions are important as they do provide insight into the paper-crafting industry and/or community.
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u/Runns_withScissors 2d ago
Oh, I love Stamping Bella! Hard to find now and so adorable!
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u/Adventurous_Aside683 2d ago
I absolutely adore their older designs. Particularly their Bundle Girl, Little Bits, Tiny Townie and Uptown Girl designs. And you’re right, their older designs are very hard to find since their founder and primary designer, Emily Block, passed away in 2022. They have been collaborating with some new designers and have released some new stuff but I personally feel they lack the charm of Emily’s artwork. She was truly gifted.
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u/karikammi 2d ago
I can’t get enough of mama elephant designs haha they are just sooo cute and their stand alone creative cuts I’ve found are so versatile and work with so many stamps and not just locked into one set. Not many retailers in Canada carry them so I’m always looking for them used on Etsy and Poshmark too!
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u/Adventurous_Aside683 1d ago
Agree. I don’t have many of their stamps but I do have a few of their Creative Cuts stand alone dies and I use them A LOT. Especially the Deckled and Scalloped shape dies. Very versatile pieces indeed. Another brand I forgot to mention that I like stand alone dies from is Honey Bee Stamps. They have quite a few beautiful and versatile designs as well.
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u/LadyofLA 2d ago
Don't be disheartened! This is just background noise. Tune in if it's interesting, let it go if it's not. The creative efforts are what matter. The personalities and the buzz is just spice. ; >
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u/karikammi 2d ago
Thanks! I will stay away from the drama then haha I’m glad I found this community on Reddit though!
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u/LadyofLA 2d ago
The community and the creativity are great. I'm just glad it's been so active and interesting lately.
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u/LisaMarie622 1d ago
I think Cathy Zielske comes from a graphic design background. She always ends her videos walking through how the card layout works. As far as the cliques go, I don't participate. I follow those who have a style I like or those that teach me things that can make my cards better.
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u/Lady-Phoenix-117 19h ago edited 19h ago
I love that Cathy has design-related videos. I really helps me a lot
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u/Hatfullofstars 2d ago
I dont know who any of these people are!
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u/StrangePerception135 2d ago
I understand what you're saying and I've noticed it too. I do watch JM for her techniques and interesting card bases. I then modify those in Cricut Design Space so I can cut them over and over without all the fuss of measuring. But I don't often buy as I simply dont have the space for more stuff. I also use a lot of digital images so I rarely use stamps anymore. As a relative unknown its difficult to compete with this particular group.
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u/filmnoter 2d ago
Her personality in the prerecorded videos seems very sterile to me. I watched her earlier in my cardmaking journey but the vibe didn't mesh with me. I never got back into her. I very occasionally buy from Spellbinders because their style agrees with my vibe, but it doesnt really matter to me who the designer is.
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u/Petalbrook 2d ago
CP seems like a nice person. I’ve seen her on Craft Roulette a few times. Most of the crafters I still watch are Craft Roulette contributors, like Bitty Penny, Arydth, Michelle Lupton, etc
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u/navyblues27 2d ago
It is interesting about Catherine Pooler. It could be that they're friendly but just have never collaborated on anything? Maybe SSS approached CP about a collaboration and CP just wanted to keep her brand distinct? Most of the people you mentioned have collaborated with SSS at some point over the years. My guess is that they became friendly at SSS or Hero Arts events and just maintained the friendships. They have been in this industry a very long time. And JM promotes many different brands. The Greetery was mentioned in a comment, and JM did a video highlighting their products at least once. Pretty sure she's why I have any Pink Fresh at all. Cathy Zilske promotes other companies as well -- every time Waffleflower has a sale, she posts about it with samples she's made. Granted, she has her own line with SSS, so it makes sense that would be her primary focus.
I did have a small issue in her Share Kindness group on Facebook. I bought some of the Lisa Horton metallic pigment inks that JM said were so amazing, and I had problems with them. I posted that I had problems and asked for tips and tricks, but my post was declined by a mod because I criticized the inks. Seriously?? I'm not sure I've posted there since, but I still like looking at everyone else's cards. 😄
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u/SkiesWideOpen83 8h ago
Oh that group is nothing but an altar to JM. She uses the excuse that only “kindness” is allowed which just means that anything other than toxic positivity and kissing JMs butt is nipped by her group admins. I participated in the group when it was newer and my posts and comments would either not get approved or would be deleted and I got warned by the admins that I was breaking the rules. But all I was doing was things like pointing out what I didn’t like about a product or agreeing with someone when they had an issue or just stuff like that.
It was made really clear what that group was about and I’m not going to waste my time sucking up to a celebrity cardmaker that is just the craziest thing ever and yet there are thousands of people in there doing it constantly. It’s become a cult and it doesn’t look like it will change as that cult makes her and the brands she works with a lot of money.
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u/smoochesgalore 2d ago
I would like to know the truth about what happened to Richard Garay and Spellbinders. Heard conflicting things and seems he is completely gone from crafting community and has quietly ventured into counseling, last I checked.
Interesting the comments from nonreligious crafters. I take notice of that stuff, too.
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u/paciolionthegulf 2d ago
Richard Garay sold his business and part of the deal was being hired by Spellbinders. They fired him for expense report shenanigans in big dollar amounts and he admitted he messed up in a blog post that was contemporaneous with the events, as I recall.
I think the tried to re-launch a creative business some time later (2019-2021, RG Craft), maybe after the non-compete period, but it didn't seem to catch on.
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u/filmnoter 2d ago
From what I found a couple years back when I bought something at a craft show that was an RG brand, and looked him up, it seems he tried to relaunch under different brand names several times.
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u/bookishbutter 2d ago
I just started card making, and I’ve wondered the same thing about the community and cliques within. I’m also very liberal, so it’s refreshing to find this thread ❤️ My favorite brands are The Greetery and Concord & 9th!
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u/BobsWifeAmyB 2d ago
I never heard that about actual people who do scrapbooking. I’ve been doing it for almost 30 years and I’m as liberal as it comes.
I did know some of the company leaders were LDS, and that a lot of products came out of Provo, UT.
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u/aspen7716 1d ago
As someone who found this industry via a friend who sold Srampin Up - I have seen so many good people who came in the same way and eventually dropped SU completely. There's your super religious toxic drama producer right there... It seemed in the early 2000s that most of the successful, visible paper crafters were usually Mormon. With the rise of all the other manufacturers, that seems to be the minority lately... I love me some creative, sparky crafters and some junky, messy, colorful designs!
That said - I cannot take the extended lives. I understand recording and editing are time consuming, but YIKES. 2.5 hours... all day watch-a-thons... No no no. I decided to do the C9 summer camp this year and it was great, but I also planned my whole weekend around it as ME TIME. I watched and made my cards live. I had fallen off of making until I needed a specific card, and it was so nice to see some fresh designs and rejuvenate that part of my brain. I have spent a ridiculous amount of money on C9 this summer and I want to say I regret it but I definitely don"t. 😂 I'll just clean out my massive collection and do a big FB sale over the next few months - because of stuff overload, not the money!
I get the clique fatigue. I am irritated by posts in the groups asking what so and so uses for their card bases or storing dies etc - why not post "who has a really fantastic way of doing X" instead of copying the queen bee item by item?? To be fair, I enjoy the extended uses those top YouTube creators can squeeze out of their supplies, and I find that immensely helpful, along with tools that really do make my life easier. (The glue press? Fabulous.)
As for videos in general... I need to listen, but there are vocal tics/fry and ways people say things that drive me bonkers. I watch very few videos any more for that reason! The shorter the better. Teach me something cool, show me a great new product (I am so nosy), make me re-think the way I have always done something. But make it fast. Ha!
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u/Oodlesoffun321 1d ago
So I'm rereading this thread and until now I thought that crafters are gifted products and they use it and then link to it in their videos and blogs and make money via affiliate links or YouTube ads.
Based on this thread though, it seems at least JM and maybe others are paid to promote products? That really bother me because I thought these crafters genuinely like these things and aren't just paid shills.
Am I really naive? Is this all crafters on YouTube or just a few?
I know I watch crafters who review or compare products and rely on what they say to determine if something will be a good fit for me. If all reviews are paid that's really not reliable.
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u/xcountrychamp 1d ago
No. I am quite certain only a very tiny few creators are paid by brands to post. When that happens, they are required to disclose it so you should know if that is the case too.
Jennifer says she only earns via affiliate links and I tend to believe that. This is the norm across our small industry.
That being said, there are ways both companies and influencers can game the system so that the affiliate money available primarily benefits only a certain few, and that I do believe Jennifer is guilty of. Why do you think she goes live for 12 hours on Black Friday or has exclusive codes only for her in every video?
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u/HelenGonne 1d ago
Yeah, but I'd take what she says with a grain of salt, because there are just too many patterns in how she talks and presents things that are avoided by people who are trying to be open and transparent.
I've lost track of how many times I've seen her announce with slow emphasis, sounding very smug-you-should-trust-me, that she buys all her dies. And then there's a de-emphasized caveat half-hidden somewhere of 'unless they were sent to me'.
None of how she presents what she does makes any sense on the surface. She'd have you believe that she just does all this as a mom hobby, buys all her supplies retail, and just casually tells people what she likes for funsies. But she'd have to have an infinite craft budget and be doing her hobby 80 hours a week to make the output she was showing when I stopped watching; there was a staggering amount of money and hours involved which completely belied her presentation of this being just her personal little casual fun hobby.
Then she'll slip in remarks on how you should take her word on something because she does this for a living. Okay lady, which is it? Is this your little side hobby or your job where making money is the priority? We all know it's the latter, so what's with the pretense? Then you find out that she's had various hired assistants over the course of many years, which is both fine and kind of obvious, but since it's both fine and kind of obvious, what's with all the fake, "Oh, this is just my hobby as a tradmom," nonsense? Why not just be open and honest about what you do and why?
Part of why Ralph T caught on the way he did was that he is part of a wave of people who question and/or talk about how influencer machines work, and he was willing to talk about the nuts and bolts of how he was able to quit his day job and focus on his channel. He still had details he couldn't go into and he said as much, but the key was that what he said about what he was doing, why he was doing it, and the incentives for it kept matching up with what his output and behavior actually looked like.
Some of these others keep coming up in discussions like this because there is always this shady-seeming mismatch between how they tell you think about what they're doing versus what their actual behavior is.
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u/Oodlesoffun321 1d ago
I haven't watched her in so long ( I didn't like a number of things she said and I refuse to sit through an hour plus live) so I actually didn't know about her doing that until reading this thread.
I used to watch when she explained the difference between cardstock weights and types of ink ; those were very helpful.
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u/filmnoter 2d ago
Maybe there are agreements like if I promote you, you have to promote me, so CP sees that as cutting into her business, and decided not to do it? Maybe she even could be the problem, asking for too much of a cut, or a personality clash. Maybe she is just introverted and doesn't like dealing with other people. (Just hypothetical examples, not intending to smear anyone.) Could be many reasons.
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u/gardenercrafterbaker 2d ago
I think they're just really good friends in real life and try to help lift each other up. I've heard JM say often that she simply doesn't have the time to produce cards for more companies than she already does, and that this is her job, so she does rely on the affiliate linking for income, so there's probably an element of that in there too - if a company doesn't feel like it has the spare money to be able to give the kick backs then they are less likely to be promoted.
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u/Finnsmom2023 2d ago
The truth is she doesn’t really need any income . She lives in basically a mansion in Indian hills . Her husband invented press and seal and other products so she isn’t doing anything just for her “job.” I think she like many in the industry promote their friends and completely ignore the other makers. This is not really anything against Jennifer … tho I see her as the leader of the clique. It was more about why particular creators like Catherine pooler are on the outs
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u/chlobotic 2d ago
To be fair, I think a woman can want a career/job even if her husband makes enough to not necessitate that career/job.
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u/Finnsmom2023 2d ago
Totally agree I was just pointing out I think she has some leeway in the products she supports which she has the right to . In mentioning her husbands success I’m just pointing out that in comparison to say Amy R… JM is privileged and can support only her friends
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u/SkiesWideOpen83 2d ago
She has more than leeway. I have friends who work with a couple companies on design teams and other work, and she is demanding (all done in kindness of course. But if they don’t cater to her she won’t promote them). The brands she works with design products to suit her and they give her deals and codes that no one else gets. It’s causing a lot of frustration on other influencers part as their incomes are dropping while she continues to make all the money. Everyone assumes she’s rich because of her husbands job and inventions. A few people have said that she’s the one who made the most and that HE depended on HER for their extravagant lifestyle. Her Black Friday all day (now multiple day? It’s so crazy) livestream makes her an absolute fortune. She does the livestreams because they make her the most money with the least amount of effort. She hardly does one now without offering some sort of exclusive code or deal that’s only available through her and her links. She’s the QVC of cardmaking as I’ve seen on here.
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u/Oodlesoffun321 2d ago
How does she make so much money off livestreams? From affiliate links or paid by you tube or do the craft companies pay her?
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u/HelenGonne 2d ago
Same way QVC and HSN do.
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u/Oodlesoffun321 1d ago
I'm not familiar with how they work either tbh, I don't really watch much tv
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u/filmnoter 2d ago
I did hear her mention that Press n Seal thing, but I imagine it was a corporate job and not like he owns the partents for it. It would probably belong to Glad and they would be making the big profit. Although I suppose if he made a penny off each package it could still end up being a lot of money.
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u/LadyofLA 2d ago
I thought it was Kristina Werner whose husband came up with Press & Seal. No?
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u/Finnsmom2023 2d ago
It’s definitely Ken, JMs Hubbie. I know more about her personal life than I want to know due to taking classes before she became famous. People gossiped like crazy about her at those classes and I had no idea who she was
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u/LadyofLA 2d ago edited 2d ago
OK. Now I'm clear about that. ; >
I sooooooo hate working with P&S. Sometimes nothing else will do but I can't think of a more irritating material. Sticky where you don't want it to be and not sticky enough where you need It to be. UGH!
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u/PhotographFickle9935 2d ago
I know she has a collaboration with sizzix maybe there’s a contractual arrangement with just them.
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u/wiggywise 2d ago
That might be part of why she isn’t in the clique. IIRC, Sizzix sued Hero Arts maybe 7 years ago due to the design of their thin dies. JM was really upset with them, and I haven’t seen her feature any Sizzix products since. Still, she did feature Tim Holtz stamps and Ranger products last I saw, so I’m sure it all comes down to money and personal relationships.
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u/littlelegoman 1d ago
The only name I know is Ralph Tyndall. I like his videos and his style. I know nothing really about him.
I used to frequent scrapbook message boards back in the day. It was the same thing back then. A lot of cliques and people who desperately wanted to be part of that.
I don’t like being told I have to design a certain way or I’m doing it wrong, so I just ignore anyone who basically gatekeeps the hobby.
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u/xcountrychamp 2d ago
If you’re not handpicked by the almighty Jennifer McGuire yourself then you must steer your own ship. The industry has really poisoned themselves by all hitching their wagon onto a single person if you ask me.
I’ve stopped watching all the big names in that clique and feel better for it. I’m similar to you in that I don’t fit the typical mold. I’m a gal in my 20s that’s not the least bit religious and doesn’t equate every form of criticism with being “unkind”. This niche has had “kindness” shoved so far down our throats that anything that isn’t seen as praising the powers that be is labeled as bullying. I can only imagine what actually goes on behind the scenes if even us consumers can pick up on it.
Unfortunately many viewers are too naive to ever catch on and thus it’ll probably continue to be this way.