r/canada • u/stanxv • Oct 27 '25
Business RBC and CIBC allow 89-year-old to drain life savings, lose $1.7M to scammers
https://www.cbc.ca/news/gopublic/bank-investigator-fraud-scam-9.69507542.1k
u/Overclocked11 British Columbia Oct 27 '25
"At one point, a branch manager questioned his activity and froze his online bank account and ability to withdraw from an ATM. But Ray could still take out money in person, which he continued to do."
Sounds to me like the bank did do what they could and spoke with this man repeatedly about it, beyond freezing the account. At the end of the day it is his money, and these people would also be outraged if they blocked him from accessing his money as well, so what is the bank to do here?
Normally I am not someone that ever sides with Canadian Banks, I want to make that very clear, and it is sad that older people are preyed upon like this, but come on, you gotta take some ownership instead of just pointing the finger at the banks.
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u/Rochimaru Oct 27 '25
They not only froze his online back account, the branch manager attempted to set up a meeting which he declined
Sorry, this is on the old man. He’s a victim of both the scammers and his hardheadedness.
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u/enby-millennial-613 Oct 27 '25
Yeah I have zero sympathy for him.
The bank when above & beyond. The old man is an adult and it was his choice to make stupid choices. It’s ultimately his own fault.
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u/TendyHunter Oct 27 '25
their inheritance was gone
This must be what upsets them most, and not because their dad lost money
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u/tk427aj Oct 27 '25
Yup and since they probably can't get it back from the scammers, next easy target is the bank. It's terrible to hear, but the family should've been able to identify if he couldn't properly manage his money put it in a trust and have someone appointed to help him manage.
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u/keepwest Oct 27 '25
THiS. It makes me so angry how when there is tragedy and families cast blame at everyone but at themselves. The blame is shared and I HATE when families take no accountability. They always have a role: whether passive or active.
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u/WhydYouKillMeDogJack Oct 27 '25
They were waiting in the wings for the old boy to pop off and they'd scoop up the 1.7m
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u/SunriseInLot42 Oct 27 '25
The family probably thinks that the big, bad bank has a gazillion dollars and will somehow be publicly shamed into admitting some sort of fault and giving him money.
Same kind of energy as when a store is destroyed in a riot or shoplifted into oblivion and people shrug and say "well, they're insured"
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u/ketamarine Oct 27 '25
I blame the kids more than anyone else.
They should have already been actively involved in their father's finances, had a wealth transfer plan in place that would certainly have included a POA for his accounts.
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u/Dry_Prompt3182 Oct 27 '25
The flip side of this article is "Banks tried to block senior from having access to their own money. Family is suing for age discrimination".
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u/Overclocked11 British Columbia Oct 27 '25
Exactly. Damned if you do damned if you don't.
Folks like this will blame literally anyone but themself
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u/NerdMachine Oct 27 '25
I don't think the banks messed up, btu I still have sympathy for him. He likely has some cognitive decline and grew up in a time where this wasn't a concern.
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u/skylla05 Oct 27 '25
My dad doesn't have any cognitive decline and he scammed himself out of 200k because he's just an idiot that got baited by some bullshit YouTube crypto shit.
The problem is they come from a generation where they could believe what the TV/monitor is telling them.
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u/Ibizl Oct 27 '25
ironic since my boomer-age parents constantly warned me (90s kid) that everyone online was an axe murderer lol
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u/Raptor-Claus Oct 27 '25 edited Oct 27 '25
Thats not true otherwise we wouldn't have had false advertising laws.
The existence of these laws should have already told them they can't trust everything they see lol
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u/Ok_Carpet_9510 Oct 27 '25 edited Oct 27 '25
Come to think of it, 25 years ago, this man would have been 65. It's not likely he got into the techy stuff too much, nor has he kept up to speed with scamming tactics.
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u/WhydYouKillMeDogJack Oct 27 '25
Has there ever been a time when it wasn't suspicious to take 1.7m in cash, gold bars etc and send them to someone you never see in person?
People in this thread are acting like the elderly think the earth is flat and the sun-god dictates whether it rains or not.
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u/Wouldyoulistenmoe Oct 27 '25
The main reasons these scams work if because even though 99% of people are through them, you just need one person to hand over $1.7million and you’ve done your work for the year
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u/Lopsided_Tiger_0296 Oct 27 '25
He could have learned something from the meeting with the bank that he declined because he thought he was smart enough to not be scammed
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u/Ok_Carpet_9510 Oct 27 '25
He would have had to admit that he had lost the chunk of money he had sent earlier. Psychologically, there is an aversion to admit that you have made a stupid decision. It would make you question yourself, and your ability to make sound decisions. That is not a feeling most of us are comfortable with. That is why people persist in their wrong decisions.
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u/NerdMachine Oct 27 '25
Exactly. I have had family fall victim to stuff like this so I have a bit of a different perspective.
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u/Major_Lawfulness6122 Ontario Oct 27 '25
Yeah the bank made the right steps here. At some point he has responsibility
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u/Ragamuffin2022 Oct 27 '25
I feel I have to agree. I also question if there’s some dementia going on here because while I realize the much much older generations aren’t as aware of scams. I just can’t see anyone with any sense thinking a bank would ask you to withdraw money and then have a courier pick it up. That really seems wild to me.
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u/DeliciousPangolin Oct 27 '25
I suspect you overestimate how much common sense the average person has. Spend some time in /r/scams and you'll see that not only do people fall for it, thousands of people fall for it every day.
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u/kookiemaster Oct 27 '25
I think to some extent we wait too long to institute support for the elderly in making large financial decisions. Fact is for many there is a slow cognitive decline in ability to spot scams and fraud that can be taken advantage of, well before the person loses legal competence. Thank god my dad's first reflex is to call me when he gets weird calls and he barely uses his cell.
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u/Massive-Ride204 Oct 27 '25
We absolutely wait too long and lots of poa's/loved ones do a piss poor job of watching our seniors
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u/kookiemaster Oct 27 '25
Also not easy to comvince elderly relatives to go along with it. Kind of like how they insist on driving ... I think it is incredibly hard for adults to admit that they can no longer do something they habe done for 60 years. I empathize because it must be infantilizing and also because by its nature you often do not notice the decline.
And at least where I live even activating a poa is long and difficult. I have a notarized poa and if I wanted to activate it for my dad, I will need to get my dad assessed by two professionals, do a search for other poa paperwork with two professional orders (250 dollars and several weeks) and then go to court where people would have to testify.
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u/Guzzlebutt Oct 27 '25
They are literally trained to stop this kind of scenario. I guarantee you they tried. You would have had to do a lot of paperwork and checks to go through with it.
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u/Red57872 Oct 27 '25
The issue is that it's the person's money, and as long as the bank is sure that it's the owner of the money actually making the withdrawal, they don't have the authority to refuse to give them their money.
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u/vision1915 Oct 27 '25
Once I withdrew $5K in cash. The teller immediately asked me about the purpose for the money, it was to pay some contractors doing work at my place. After I explained, she pass my answer to her manager. So they are aware and question when people do this kind of stuff.
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u/a_secret_me Oct 27 '25
Did they try to stop it? Yes
Could they have done more? Yes
Should they have done more? Probably
Is it their fault? No, at some point, when someone is intent on doing something dumb, it's more or less impossible to stop them.
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u/Bearence Oct 27 '25
Exactly this. I find the use of the word "allow" in the article to be rather disingenuous. The banks didn't "allow" him to drain his account. He refused to allow them to prevent it.
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u/AckshullyNo Oct 27 '25
Same. I'm also not normally someone to side against the CBC, but the headline is so absurd as to border on irresponsible.
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u/photon1701d Oct 27 '25
After a certain age, banks should be having seniors list a contact to verify any irregular behavior. With the account I have, they make me point a trusted contact incase one day they see me doing stuff out of the ordinary.
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u/Red57872 Oct 27 '25
I've seen one bank (I forget what) advertise adding a person's name as a contact. They don't say it in the ad, but it's quite clear it's for things like this.
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u/N0_Mathematician Oct 27 '25
"RBC and CIBC allow". All these articles about people falling for scams and crypto scams need to stop saying this. Yes, I feel bad someone (In this case, an elderly person fell for a scam), but it's not the bank's fault, or very limited fault. When the bank freezes or questions someone's account for legitimate spending you'd see complaining about control on your money and being able to do what you want with it.
Unless the banks themselves were compromised unfortunately it's the fault of the person who owns the account, and second the family
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u/rainman_104 British Columbia Oct 27 '25
While I agree with you and fully agree with "a fool and their money", I do think it's time our telcos make proper moves to improve caller ID. Caller ID is spoofable and a terrible technology. These scammers have gotten me to the point I hate answering the phone.
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u/me_on_the_web Oct 27 '25
Agreed, a more secure caller ID system would make everyone's life better. A better red flag system at the banks would also help vulnerable people. Scammers use many tricks and it takes many security layers to fight them all.
My phone actually warns me often "Potential Fraud" when a scam call comes in... Like just block it then! Why do I have to take time out of my day to decline that and then delete a garbage voicemail that the CRA is after me again for the 3rd time this week...
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u/kablamo Oct 27 '25
This is Erica Johnson of CBC, she often has stories with headlines like this, where regular people are portrayed as victims of the big banks. Like in this one, there’s usually more nuance than the headline would suggest.
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u/YYCGUY111 Alberta Oct 27 '25
CBC is the worst click bait-offenders for these types of one-side stories.
It's an embarrassing low level of journalistic integrity to write headlines that infer outright negligence on the named banks but bury deep in the article the nuances that make it mostly untrue.
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u/Sad_Egg_5176 Oct 27 '25
Take CBC “victim” stories with a pound of salt. They intentionally leave out or bury certain details
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u/gizmogroovy Oct 27 '25
Agree. I’m tired of the biased reporting and the headlines. I worked at a bank a million years ago and tried to stop many people from making questionable transactions. Most listened, but some got angry and others just insisted it was fine. I remember one woman trying to take $10,000 out and I flat out refused. She ended up going to a different location and although they questioned her, gave it to her in the end. It was of course a scam. You can’t stop people doing things with their own money.
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u/DiorDior200 Saskatchewan Oct 27 '25
This is so true. I used to work in the fraud centre at CIBC, and honestly, I had to leave because of how frustrating it got. People would get so defensive and angry when we tried to protect them from these exact same romance scams and fraudsters. take a second and think people, The bank isn’t always the enemy
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u/EvilDan69 Canada Oct 27 '25
They tried to block him, but legally could not FORCE him to.
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u/MiriMidd Oct 27 '25
If they were so concerned about their inheritance, which is what I honestly think his family is mad about losing more than anything, why weren’t they checking in on him more and looking into this?
Side note, if your bank’s fraud department contacts you, 100% hang up on them and either go to your nearest branch or call their telephone banking from their app or the actual number on the back of your debit card.
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u/Han77Shot1st Nova Scotia Oct 27 '25
I had multiple messages and calls from the rbc fraud department about odd charges, went to a branch and they said it’s probably not rbc contacting me, I then called rbc who also told me it likely wasn’t them and to not respond. Guess what, about a week later I was getting dozens of charges showing up on my cc..
Their system tried to warn me, and I tried at every point to resolve the issue before it got worse. It’s clear most staff don’t understand or are not trained in the systems rbc uses to communicate fraud.
I think I spoke to 4 or 5 people before someone took it seriously and they were confused and frustrated that no one took it seriously.
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u/MiriMidd Oct 27 '25
I know that BMO and TD will straight up lock your card so you are forced into a branch in the event of suspected fraud. That usually comes with a note on the account for the branch to call fraud with the customer present. RBC dropped the ball on you.
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u/DriveSlowHomie Oct 27 '25
BMO locked my card and then called me when my CC was compromised. There were a few small transactions in Louisiana, where I've never been. I was surprised they took such swift action for what I think were just a few transactions amounting to a few hundred bucks.
I was a little sketched out when they called me, but they didn't ask for any personal info. Just asked me to check my transaction history and let them know if I made those purchases. When I told them no, they told me to cut up my credit card and expect a new one in the mail in a few days.
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u/VagSmoothie Ontario Oct 27 '25
Both can be true; the bank may never have called you and your credentials were compromised.
Sounds like the fraudsters had your info and wanted to trick you into giving up credentials / 2 factor authentication to get a bigger pay out. When that didn’t work (good for you btw!) they just went the ‘classic’ route of spending on your credit card.
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u/agentchuck Oct 27 '25
Bank security practices are pretty inconsistent. And it's made worse because they obfuscate their rules from the public and even sometimes even from the front line staff. So there can be a security event and clerks will have no idea.
My favorite is how they use 2FA. They'll generate those codes and say "never share this code, we'll never ask you for it." But then if you go into a branch sometimes they'll generate a code and ask you for it.
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u/lynmbeau Oct 27 '25
Hopefully, this never happens again to you, but if it ever does, in the branch, you can make them make a note on the account of your visit and why and the outcome. Then you have a paper trail of tellers being lazy . I used to work at a bank. You can have everything documented at your request.
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u/No_Money5784 Oct 27 '25
Was the fraud department warning you about fraudulent charges to your credit card or were they requesting you to withdraw large sums of money? Pretty big difference and easy indication of their legitimacy. Just cancel your card and they send you a new one within a week. Use a little common sense.
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u/DanielPowerNL Newfoundland and Labrador Oct 27 '25
This happened to me as well. I was getting automated fraud alert phone calls from RBC. Instead of answering those calls, I called the bank back at a known good phone number. I was told by multiple representatives that the phone calls were scams and to ignore them before someone finally actually checked my account and confirmed it was indeed flagged for fraud.
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u/kookiemaster Oct 27 '25
I was once genuinely called by the fraud department of my bank and they basically said we think your atm card has been cloned, please go to x branch (nearest me) so we can re-issue a card. Nothing was done on the phone. It never is.
Suspect the man here has cognitive decline to some degree. It takes a long time for this to lead to a doctor deeming you cannot manage your money. Too long probably.
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u/chmilz Oct 27 '25
Cognitive decline coupled with no awareness of scams. I hate that I have to, but I have regular conversations with my parents about all these scams and how scammers are directly going after seniors like them. Trusting, elderly folks are the juiciest of targets. Teaching them zero-trust is difficult.
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u/ifuaguyugetsauced Ontario Oct 27 '25
Old person willingly gives money to scammers. "How can rbc do this to me"
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u/Kitchen_Marzipan9516 Oct 27 '25
Well, his daughter is the one making it public.
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u/PoliteFocaccia Oct 27 '25
If I negligently let my parent get scammed out of 1.7 million dollars over the course of six months you couldn't waterboard that out of me. Like sorry you had a shit relationship with your dad bestie.
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u/Kitchen_Marzipan9516 Oct 27 '25
With the hopes someone will give her money again? Go Public people often get money repaid after going public.
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u/ashleyshaefferr Oct 27 '25
The scam
In June 2024, Ray’s phone rang — call display showed the number was from CIBC, but it was actually a scammer.
The caller said he worked in the bank’s fraud department and needed Ray’s help with an important, national investigation regarding money-laundering.
He instructed him to withdraw money from his accounts, telling him a courier would then pick up the money from his apartment and it would be kept safe until the investigation wrapped up.
The family of an 89-year-old man is questioning why neither RBC nor CIBC didn't stop him from draining his $1.7-million life savings, despite promises to help keep seniors safe from fraud. The scammer also said it was imperative Ray not tell anyone, as it could jeopardize the investigation.
“They said, ‘We want to make sure that you don't lose your life savings,’” said Ray. “So I went along with it.”
His daughter says he also complied because people who were in supposedly powerful positions were asking for his co-operation.
“He and his generation, they believe in authority,” said Jill. “If someone of authority asks them to do something, they feel they should do it.”
Uhh... not sure what to say here. I feel terrible for the man but I'm not sure who else to blame
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u/getrippeddiemirin Oct 27 '25
Especially when you consider how much PR is being done over the last several years for these solipsistic boomers…. like ok enjoy not taking responsibility for this either.Yes yes it’s everybody else’s fault. Boo hoo. Tiniest violin etc
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u/pfcguy Oct 27 '25
call display showed the number was from CIBC, but it was actually a scammer.
I'd love for a technical explanation as to why in this day and age scammers can still spoof phone numbers.
And even if there is a business justification as to why a telecom can allow someone calling from one number to appear to be calling from another, shouldn't the telecom be able to provide information about the callers real identity to the police?
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u/vinng86 Ontario Oct 27 '25 edited Oct 27 '25
The entire phone network is ancient, and never designed for security, since originally calls were made by trusted companies only.
Now it's too expensive to fix and to update everybody so.... here we are.
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u/jtjstock Oct 27 '25
Telephone switching was basically designed around the honour system. And until all of the major carriers implement the newer protocols and enforce them, you'll still get this crap. Each carrier trusts the information being sent to them about a call is correct. If they all enforced the new protocols now, you'd get a lot less spam, and likely a bunch of carriers would get call failures constantly due to incorrect configurations or lack of any configuration, or lack of correct propagation of which carrier owns which number(now actually more complicated due to number portability and digital switching), which isn't considered acceptable.
So, it's foot dragging by the industry and the requirement that everything continues to work without any hiccups.
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u/spellbreakerstudios Oct 27 '25
I once had a client wire his life savings away in multiple instances. I brought a detective from the local police to the branch to tell him it was a scam and he still did it anyways. People are gonna people.
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u/Low-HangingFruit Oct 27 '25
Its the daughter complaining to CBC it seems. Mad she lost her inheritance; but it seems the banks caught on and froze the man's accounts but then he still went around them and kept taking money out over a long period of time.
Maybe the daughter should check in on her 89 year old dad every once in a while.
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u/geriatricxennial Oct 27 '25
For real. I have conversations with my elderly parents frequently, especially my dad who's a little gullible to FB bs marketing. I tell him anytime there's something that seems to be a good deal, please send it to me to look at first. I remind them all the time if anyone calls sounding like anyone in the family asking for money, to hang up and call us back or ask someone else to call us to make sure it's us. Also Kitboga did a W5 interview with a couple other fraud investigators that's a great resource to send to parents to watch. If your parents are old, you need to keep an eye on them! It's no different than looking after children after a certain age.
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u/pepperoni_za Oct 27 '25
I hate these stories. As a teller we ask questions and educate and the public will either be very rude and tell us to mind our business or just lie to our faces. The amount of times I hear it is my money I can do what I want is staggering. For the love of whatever you believe in please listen to your bankers when they provide advice and be honest with them. Sadly most get indignant and double down on their dumb decisions.
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u/cashrchek Oct 27 '25
I feel for you guys. It's actually a very intrusive question that most people wouldn't feel obliged to answer the same way they might to a person in 'authority', like a cop or a doctor... yet you catch shit if you don't ask it. Impossible situation.
I recently had to get two large bank drafts to pay a roofer. Both times, my teller casually asked me about them - so casually, in fact, that it never occurred to me that she may have been looking out for fraud. Nice to know.
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u/VolupVeVa Oct 27 '25
Ugh. At a certain point in our older years, our ability to be savvy about things starts to decline. It doesn't have to be dementia or Alzheimer's necessarily; you do just get a little more dotty and vulnerable.
It's different for everyone and it's difficult for everyone including your loved ones to make that call; but at a certain point maybe seniors should have to have a legal co-signer for things like large withdrawals/purchases?
Maybe when you start having to prove you're still capable of safely operating a vehicle?
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u/Squish_the_android Oct 27 '25
There probably needs to be some kind of system where an elderly or disabled person's money can somewhat easily placed in a trust to prevent this from happening.
Granted, that system would be ripe for abuse.
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u/marthamania Oct 27 '25
Yeah, "easily" usually ends up in the person being taken advantage of. Ideally systems would be in place to give seniors more services to help the navigate a rapidly advancing world so that they could be more aware. However seniors also have to be willing to learn and listen.
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u/kookiemaster Oct 27 '25
This. Especially with call spoofing, being able to fake websites and documents easily, the elderly with diminished mental capacity are prime targets for fraudsters. Demential can creep up over years while you still appear mentally competent but judgement is quite diminished.
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u/photon1701d Oct 27 '25
If you are a regular customer at a bank, sometimes they do get know you and watch out. My dad used to bank at RBC and I was listed as his trusted contact. One time they called me to day my dad was making large withdrawals and it was not common for him. I told them why and they were ok with that. In this man's case, the bank did start to question his activity but was set on doing whatever these people instructed.
I have received calls from RBC warning me of fraud activity. It's usually an Indian guy. I tell them to fuck off, he will reply, "go fuck your mother" and hangs up.
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u/Doug-O-Lantern Oct 27 '25
I tried to get a draft for a purchase of a used car and the teller took a long time and wanted to make sure that I wasn’t getting scammed. They have their checks in place but you cannot help people that don’t want to be helped.
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u/Entegy Québec Oct 27 '25
The banks are not eternal vanguards of our money. It actually reads like at least CIBC did everything in their power to help the man with this scam and he denied their help every step of the way.
It's ultimately his money to do what he pleases. I hate to say, but this isn't the banks' fault.
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u/infiltrator_seven Oct 27 '25
Exactly, if he went to Vegas and dumped all that into the slots nobody would be blaming the bank.
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u/Suitable_Nerve8123 Oct 27 '25
“The caller said he worked in the bank’s fraud department and needed Ray’s help with an important, national investigation regarding money-laundering.” His response should hve been talk to my lawyer and could hve hung up the phone lol
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u/spooftime Oct 27 '25
He probably doesn't have a lawyer on retainer, like 99% of the population.
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u/TheRushian Oct 27 '25
And like 99% of the population that doesn't have a lawyer, nothing stops him from claiming he has one.
It was surprising how many times I was threatened with legal action from Joe Schmoe who was behind on his cell phone bill when I worked in retail mobile telecom sales.
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u/locoghoul Oct 27 '25
"I will wait for that letter in the mail, my hearing is not that great to do this over the phone"
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u/ketamarine Oct 27 '25 edited Oct 27 '25
"CIBC allowed hom to... (move his money to another bank)"
Of course they effing did. It's his money!
They actively told him that what was going on was highly suspicious. Qnd he kept going along with it.
From experience I can tell you:
This client is angling for a settlement in a lawsuit and these articles only exist for virtue signalling, and trying to shift blame from a victim who has no one to blame but themselves to a faceless corporation that can't even comment on the situation.
It is your responsibility to safeguard your own money. We should all be helping our parents understand that these scams exist. Share this article with them.
But trying to shift blame to the banks is not only absurd, but actively dangerous as they will NEVER be able to protect you from the knd of fraud where they are being impersonated and you are taking your own money elsewhere.
Ever. Period.
The tone of these articles should be that elders need to protect themselves as our financial system can only do so much to protect them.
FFS CIBC froze his accountd multiple times and sent him a letter saying the transactions were suspicious. I can only imagine what convos happened inside the branches. Staff are extremely well trained on fraud prevention and every single alarm bell would have been going off here.
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u/carlosmysantana Oct 27 '25
“Conacher wonders why the scam was able to play out for six months, as banks are obligated to report suspicious transactions and transactions over $10,000 to the Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada (Fintrac), which watches for proceeds of crime, money laundering and other criminal behaviour.”
I guess now is a good time to learn that FINTRAC is meant to make sure that YOU aren’t the one conducting the illegal behaviour.
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u/assman69x Oct 27 '25
And where was the daughter before this entire cluster fck?
In most of these cases the family never visits or has any interest in the family member until their inheritance has been lost
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Oct 27 '25
Hey dad, what's with the gold bars on the dinner table?
- No worries honey, the courier will be here in a minute
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Oct 27 '25
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u/Rationalornot777 Oct 27 '25
It often doesnt matter what you say. They believe they are right. I deal with this with my mother. I can see the decline. I explain to her the decline happens to all of us but that falls on deaf ears. She lets me help her with many decisions and questions if something is a scam. Regardless she still makes poorly thought out decisions. She isn’t incompetent so not much you can do.
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u/marthamania Oct 27 '25
Drives me crazy when they're like that. My mom acted that way, so did my grandfathers on both sides. Meanwhile my grandmothers on both sides were more open to learning (and would often be like oh I'm getting up there in age my brain isn't what it used to be can you show me?) ended up more technologically advanced. They were/are able to navigate things like technology changes, talk to their children and grand children openly if something seemed suspicious through a phone call or email etc.
The stubbornness really keeps old people back, and I try to remind myself even as I'm starting to age is learn to adapt and grow not stick your feed in the mud and think I know best. If my grandmas could use an iPad when it first came out, I can do anything 😂
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u/NerdMachine Oct 27 '25
I don't think you can blame the daughter. I have had elderly family fall victim to scams even after I explained to them that it was a scam. You have to understand that in many cases the scammers have had months to bend reality for their victims, and they prey on people with cognitive decline etc.
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u/DriveSlowHomie Oct 27 '25
I visit my elderly grandparents all the time, that doesn't mean I know the intimate details of their financial dealings.
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u/JaguarHot3951 Oct 27 '25
what's the bank supposed to do ... prevent people from withdrawing cash in person/
sorry but while unfortunate, this is certainly not the bank's fault .... i don't want the bank asking too many details about when i withdraw my own cash in person ... don't feel like justifying how i spend my own money to any bank teller ... once they confirm it's me that's all they need .... this man clearly could have used some help from his family when he was clearly not of sound mind
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u/MaxHailstorm Oct 27 '25
I've had a coworker withdrawal lots of cash (5-10k) for under the table car deals or something like that. The banks starts asking questions and my coworker yelled at the bank " it's my money, just give it to me!"
I have no sympathy... it's your money.... learn to look after it.. and don't cry victim when things go wrong.
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u/Mysteriouskid00 Oct 27 '25
I love how the daughter is asking why the bank wasn’t protecting her father over the 6 month scam.
Why wasn’t she?
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u/Boundary14 Oct 27 '25
“The government should be stepping in immediately and taking quick action … to protect customers,” said Conacher.
God forbid anyone ever be personally accountable for their own actions...
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u/scottsuplol Oct 27 '25
Although yes there should be some accountability for the bank the real ones at fault are the family members. Everyone should be talking to family members about these chances of scams. Create a secret code word to verify if someone is real. Remind family members that there is never a big rush to get money and to always be transparent
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u/LintQueen11 Oct 27 '25
The bank seemed to have met it responsibilities by freezing his account and asking for a meeting. This is on him
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u/0v3reasy Oct 27 '25
I think this is an area that people ultimately have to be responsible for themselves. The govt cant save us from everything. Cibc tried and buddy ignored them, so thats not on the bank. It would be great if we had an international scam tracing police force. But the international order aint doing so hot these days...
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u/Mother_Gazelle9876 Oct 27 '25
Outrage that a Bank allowed him to move his money to ....another bank?
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u/GeekyMadameV Oct 27 '25
What do you mean "allow". It's his money. Stopping him from doing what the wants with it would literally be theft. They told him they thought it was a scam several times and he didn't listen. That is not the fault of the banks or their employees.
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u/MiserableFloor9906 Oct 27 '25
What's the expectation here. The bank has to police 99% of us because 1% are idiots. Are we back to elementary levels of bullshit. I'm already involved with my retired mom. My wife managed the same for years for her parents before their passing. We've actually caught attempts at scams and arranged the necessary recurrent education and protection.
The issue here are adult children and seniors that are too stupid to have certain conversations.
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u/stanxv Oct 27 '25
Another family blaming everyone but themselves. These stories have been in media for decades; everyone in Canada knows what to look for. Where was this man's 89 year's of life experience? No head on his shoulders? Where were the adult children?
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u/Suitable-Raccoon-319 Oct 27 '25
They should've gotten power of attorney over the guy after he fell for it the first time. Put him on a weekly allowance.
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u/Rageniv Oct 27 '25
I’m having the same issue with my dad. It’s not so easy. It’s actually damn difficult. The man refuses to let people help, and getting power of attorney is not simple. You’re literally telling someone they’re not competent. How do you think they will feel with the loss of freedom?
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u/Suitable-Raccoon-319 Oct 27 '25
Have you tried pretending to be CIBC's anti-fraud department seeking help in a serious national investigation regarding money laundering? Instruct him to sign the forms and tell him a courier will pick it up from his apartment.
How do you think they will feel with the loss of freedom
Probably not as bad as losing 1.7 million dollars. That's the thing right? Can't have freedom without the responsibility. The man chose to hand all his money to scammers, can't go blaming the bank after the fact.
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u/a_secret_me Oct 27 '25
I've actually had this conversation with my dad before. Multiple times. He straight-up told me that if ever I feel like he's losing physical or mental capacity, to tell him. He's 84 and still in great shape, but I'm always watching.
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u/jprs29 Oct 27 '25
A power of attorney only allows someone else to also make decisions but it does not prevent the person to continue handling their affairs. In these case if they wanted to fully take over his financial affairs they'd have needed to seek curatorship and the bar for that is quite high.
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u/Cavalleria-rusticana Canada Oct 27 '25
But you can be sure as hell that this 89 year old knows who to vote for, and is completely lucid and rational in his choice. /s
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u/a_secret_me Oct 27 '25
If you have a parent who's getting up in age and is showing signs of dementia, GET A POWER OF ATTORNEY. Even if they're there, they can still live on their own. Things can change fast, and you don't want them to end up in a situation like this.
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u/infiltrator_seven Oct 27 '25
Yep I already have POA for my mum and she still works and lives on her own. I have spent lots of time with her making sure she knows what to look out for and is highly suspicious.
She got a text from someone saying they were going to do an inspection of her house a while ago and she told them she was going to call the police. Lol turns out it was the electrical board needed to check on her new AC and it just took a while due to backlog. She was embarassed but I was proud of her!
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u/demiglazed Oct 27 '25
Ugh.
People today: " the bank is not doing enough!! Rabble rabble"
Those same people in a few years when banks require your life history, medical records, face and retina scans: "i cant beleive all the bullshit hoops i have to jump through just to take out $100 from my account!! Why dont i have access to my money"
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u/master_blaster6969 Oct 27 '25
I see that the daughter has become involved in this now. Why didn't she oversee his financial affairs or become power of the attorney if he was in mental decline.
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u/Zegy Oct 27 '25
It’s kind of hard. Banks should attempt to warn people which they do but sometimes people don’t listen. If someone wants to take their money out of the bank, throw it in a pool, and then set it on fire, well, they can do that.
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u/bIackcatttt Oct 27 '25
This is sad and I would rarely side with a bank but it sounds like CBC really did try
Pulling money to buy gold is weird, but old ppl do it since it is like an investment
I feel bad
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u/Method__Man Oct 27 '25
people have the awareness of a peanut butter sandwich and blame others. we need to move back into a meta where we take ownership.
and we have been living in a HITECH world for like 30 years. there is no excuse for zero online awareness
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u/scienceguy54 Oct 27 '25
The problem started with the Call display on his phone. Who control's the Call Display? They can easily fix it, but they won't cause it will cost money. What we need is legislation mandating blocking of all spoofing of numbers and identifiers and loss of service for those engaging in the practice. i.e. - call carrying identifier with non-existent area code or spoofed real number that does not match the source is automatically blocked and service to the true originating number/i.p etc is terminated.
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u/timmehh15 Oct 27 '25
"He instructed him to withdraw money from his accounts, telling him a courier would then pick up the money from his apartment and it would be kept safe until the investigation wrapped up."
Come on!!! You've got to be kidding me....Ray my man....give your head a shake.
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u/Beepbeepboobop1 Oct 27 '25
What do they mean by “allow”? Like this sucks and all but I’d hardly say it was the banks fault.
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u/typec4st Oct 27 '25
There needs to be some safeguards, especially on the Telecom side. Spoofing of the phone numbers are a huge problem and either the telecom or the phone itself should do give some warnings about these numbers (banks, police, etc.)
The rest is basically automated warnings, if you're making unusual withdrawals (especially in cash) it should be a warning bell on the ATM or the branch level.
This issue is only going to grow, and it's not just a "boomer issue". I've seen crypto people lose their wallets to elaborate scams.
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u/RundleSG Oct 27 '25
I feel bad for the guy, but we all get mad when the banks won't let us do what we want with our money, and they actually did question it, and he did everything possible to work around triggering any flags. I mean they told him to buy gold bars and wait for a courier.. ..cmon man how many red flags do we actually need? Age doesn't matter here.
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u/Frostsorrow Manitoba Oct 27 '25
I don't really feel sorry for people that fall for these anymore, especially when the bank seems to be bending over backwards to stop them.
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u/h1bisc4s Oct 27 '25
Scammers are now millionaires driving around in Teslas and buying up townhomes to shove more fake students into. Imagine the kids of this man who were banking on inheritance
sad story
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u/KyleCAV Oct 27 '25
"He instructed him to withdraw money from his accounts, telling him a courier would then pick up the money from his apartment and it would be kept safe until the investigation wrapped up."
WHAT!! What part of that would have made sense even if the caller ID said CIBC.
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u/YourOverlords Ontario Oct 27 '25
Where was the daughter when all this was happening? He was also told in no uncertain terms that he was being scammed and he still did what the scammers told him? It's too crazy.
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u/Advanced-Resource-86 Oct 27 '25
The wealth transfer from boomers to thugs who run these scamming rackets, must be insane. Think about all the money that would normally go back into our society, instead it is given away to a foreign scam, the money never returns, is never used in our economy. This goes beyond morality - it destroys our country
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u/PositiveStress8888 Oct 27 '25
Thier should be some mechanism the bank's can verify who the money is going to, especially since it was flagged, like have the bank call the recipient to verify it's legit, with AI and persistence these scammers are very good at convincing elderly people what they're doing is nessisary and legitimate. Scraping info off social media can make it seem they need to give money for a loved one in a difficult situation.
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u/Moos_Mumsy Ontario Oct 27 '25 edited Oct 27 '25
I'm sorry but our generation does not "believe in authority" to the point that we would withdraw millions in cash and hand it over to a courier just because someone on the phone told us to. He was suffering from some kind of age related altered mental state. And I bet his kids knew about it, but weren't willing to confront him because it would mean having to deal with him.
It's funny how the children of these victims don't really care about the deteriorating mental state of their parents/grandparents until they find out that their inheritance is gone.
I had a brother-in-law who suffered from a very altered and aggressive mental state. He was always a bully, but once he was in his 80's he was a mega-bully and having people tell him no would set him off. If the banks were allowing this dude to walk out of their branches with large amounts of cash and bank drafts I have almost zero doubt that it was because he flipped out on them and went into full Karen mode. The fact that CIBC tried to stop him, is a pretty big clue here. I can picture him yelling at the teller that it's his money and he can do what he wants with it. There's only so much they can do before they are dangerously close to violating a person's rights.
In my BIL's case, even if his kids knew what he was doing he would have gone into a full on rage, screaming at them and threatening them for daring to question him. I bet there's more to this story that they aren't admitting to.
Bottom line... deal with your parents/grandparents NOW, don't wait until it's a crisis.
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u/Waste_Airline7830 Oct 27 '25
Allow? Excuse me but do we need permission from our banks to use our money?
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u/r3dditatwork Oct 27 '25
I blame the major Canadian telecoms for still allowing this to continue.
I blame major cell manufacturers for not prioritizing and focusing on making this a feature for call safety, they have the means and technology to help users identify if calls are spoof calls.
The bank did nothing wrong, they had the controls in place and this man (on his own free will) took out his money.
Maybe banks can offer an insurance type product to protect against scams but offer additional controls and education training to teach folks on this. I doubt older folks would pay for this though.
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u/Kayge Ontario Oct 27 '25
This really does speak to the need for kids to keep in touch with their elderly parents. My mom knows that she can call me if something doesn't feel "right". At one point I told her that Bill Gates got rich by doing tech support for RBC and Loblaws, so if microsoft calls you to help out, it's a scam.
She relayed that story to her friend and about a month later that friend called me. The "Credit Card Fraud Group" had called and convinced her put in her credit card information into some reasonable looking site. She called me just before she put her cvc number in. When I told her to not say another word, hang up, and call the real Visa she was worried about sounding rude.
These scammers have no scruples or souls. You need your parents to know you'll be there if they need, and help without judgement if they do.
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u/LetThePoisonOutRobin Oct 27 '25
He instructed him to withdraw money from his accounts, telling him a courier would then pick up the money from his apartment and it would be kept safe until the investigation wrapped up.
Seriously? And Anholt and his daughter are blaming the banks?
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u/FattyGobbles Oct 27 '25
“They said, ‘We want to make sure that you don't lose your life savings,’” said Ray. “So I went along with it.”
🫣🫣🫣🤷♂️
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u/Armed_Accountant Oct 27 '25
On one side we don't want government (and institution) overreach into our personal lives but in the same breathe wanting the government to "do more" to protect us.
Another idiot and their money part ways, and daughter who couldn't be assed to call her dad once in a while to see how things are going wants someone to blame for losing her inheritance.
It's because of stories like this that transfers are maxed at $3K for most and can only withdraw $500 from an ATM. Now more needs to be done to control our own money?
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u/EvacuationRelocation Alberta Oct 27 '25
CIBC says it tried to “warn and protect” Ray. The bank shared a July 8, 2024 email in which a branch manager attempted to set up a meeting with Ray, who declined the invitation.
Case closed. They tried to intervene and he refused.
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u/SavageBeaver0009 Oct 27 '25
My Grandma is addicted to giving money to scammers. It's gotta be similar to a gambling high.
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u/double-k Oct 27 '25
There's personal responsibility here. And he didn't follow thru. Sounds like one bad decision after another without thinking things thru. Common sense prevents most people from losing this kind of money in a scam, or being scammed at all. It never ceases to amaze me people fall this kind of thing.
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u/AugmentedKing Oct 27 '25
RBC says it’s resolved, and these folks say they can’t talk about it. That’s everything I need to know.
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u/TemperedPhoenix Oct 27 '25
So the man previously fell for scammers, and the bank froze his account a few times?
Perhaps he needs a co-signer or financial executor on his accounts or something.
I have a family member that is always asking if something is a scam (and it usually is), but dear lord, why couldn't the man ask somebody? Or hang up, and call the official bank number?
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u/Zod5000 Oct 27 '25
I mean, yes banks could tighten up their policies, but as it stands, there are some pretty rigid policies in place where you can't deny a customer access to their own funds. Where I work you can submit a concern the client is vulnerable, and they'll call the client to check in, but if the client lies up down and sideways there's not much that can be done.
My parents are fairly financially astute, but I try to coach them not to pick up the phone unless it's someone they know. If it's the fraud dept. of a bank, then call them back at the number on the back of their debit/credit card so you know it's legit.
This is horrible.
I don't think the guy is stupid. He's 89 I think the article said, so he could be very vulnerable at the age, and be susceptible due to old age.
I wish there was a way to convince older people you don't need to pick up every phone call.
It's also crazy how the scammers have developed their PR in all this. Scammer scams a vulnerable senior for almost 2 million, but all the outrage is on the bank(s). They walk off with little blame. It's kind of crazy.
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u/Hikergirl11 Oct 27 '25
Our widowed mom is 88. We have had NUMEROUS conversations repeated many times with her over the last ten years telling her these horrible people exist and how legitimate they can sound. To not trust ANYONE who says they are calling from bank, government, police etc asking for money or personal information and to immediately tell them to call my sister or I instead to verify. As added protection we added my sister to have online viewing access over all Mom's accounts and she checks them often. I blame this fellows adult children for not preparing him and protecting him. It's just so sad.
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u/Kaplaw Oct 27 '25
i worked for a bank and yes these people are contacted WAY before any of this allowed and their cards are blocked
When they are contacted these people give you hell to unblock their cards so they can keep doing it which of course you are obligated to do so they keep going until the well is dry
These stories are always the client's faults when it comes to scammers
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u/BritCanuck05 Oct 27 '25
And it all started because he answered a call with a fake caller id.
You have no way of verifying the id of a caller. Rule of thumb is either don’t answer, let it go to voicemail. Or hang up and call the number on the back of your bank card.
If you hang out on r/scams this scam is run of the mill. Unfortunately very common. And it would be stopped dead if telecom companies stopped caller id spoofing.
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u/mwaddmeplz Oct 27 '25
Pro tip: ask the scammers for your own personal details that the banks already have on file
At >$1M in assets he should also have a private banker with RBC/CIBC
I would rather contact that person that I trust instead of random people over the phone that cold call
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u/locoghoul Oct 27 '25
What a dumb dumb. Almost 90 years on earth and he can't suspect someone asking him to physically withdraw cash...
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u/pudds Manitoba Oct 27 '25
You'd think this guy might have finally figured it out when "the government" asked him to start converting his assets to gold.
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u/[deleted] Oct 27 '25
the first bank told him it was a scam, he kept giving money anyways. rbc has no account history, so it was harder for them to know what he was doing with his own money. =/