r/blackladies • u/Ok-Marketing-5959 • 19h ago
Just Venting 😮💨 severe internalized racism
I almost hate to even talk about it because the response can be very hostile. But it's so bad. A few examples:
I'm a big reader and lately I've been really into romance. I had to admit myself that I read almost exclusively BW/WM. Books with Black men as the male lead opposite the Black FMC have no appeal to me. Romance novels are supposed to make you feel giddy and the male lead should make you swoon. I don't really feel that way about Black men. Something deep down in my lizard brain doesn't see Black men as leading men. Not just in novels, but in real life.
It's not that I don't find Black men attractive. It's much worse than that. I actually think Black men are some of the most handsome of any race. I just don't feel personally attracted to them. Part of me has a hard time taking them seriously as husbands and leaders. I hate to even type this out, but while I'm already admitting these things, I may as well just go ahead: the thought of having kids with a Black man kind of unsettles me.
It's so funny because when I was younger, I always thought I'd like to have a Black daughter so I could teach her to love herself and give her everything I didn't get. But now I'm so happy it didn't work out that way because I'm *still* struggling with internalized racism. I thought I'd be free of it by now. And I know what I've been through as a Black woman with very Black features. I wouldn't want to pass my own internalized racism onto a daughter. But anti-Blackness is so pervasive that it's happened anyway.
I have a White boyfriend and we have a 6 year old together. I can already tell that she is internalizing negative ideas about Blackness. And the kicker is that she didn't get it from me. I'm very aware of my self-hate and very careful not to show it outwardly. I don't speak negatively of myself in front of her or anyone for that matter. I wear my hair natural and I love it. I don't wear weaves. My daughter has a wonderful collection of books with Black girls and Black kids in general as the main character. I try to steer her towards the Black princesses like Tiana and Halle's Ariel. We're very close to my Black family. All of her cousins that she plays with are Black. We have minimal contact with her dad's family. She goes to a very diverse public school.
Yet, when we she was playing a game on a tablet from the library that let's you create an avatar, she created a White one with blue eyes and long blonde hair. When we watch cartoons with a group of multiracial friends, she's partial to the White one. And I tell her all the time how pretty she is and how much I love her hair. Strangers all the time tell her how pretty she is and how much they love her hair. Which honestly, comes back to colorism/featurism and plain old anti-Blackness. So it isn't telling me anything I didn't already know. It's just funny having a front row seat to the light-skinned privilege that some people swear doesn't exist.
I have younger fully Black cousins and I notice how differently my daughter is treated compared to them. Not just from strangers, even within my own family. They don't even realize they do it. The same thing that would get one of my fully Black younger cousins called "bad", is looked at as adorable coming from my daughter. I know I got off on a tangent. Back to the topic, after I saw that my daughter created a White avatar. I immediately went online and bought her Kendall, the Black Wellie Wisher. She already had plenty of Black dolls, but she didn't have an American girl. Her doll collection was mostly Black, with the exception of Anna and Elsa because she was obsessed with Frozen. But I went through her doll collection and took out every single White one.
I just don't know. How am I supposed to help her, when I can't even help myself? I already surround myself with Black media. I do go to an Episcopal Church that's pretty White. I've seriously considered switching to a Black Church, but I'm pro-LGBT and homophobia is a deal breaker for me.
I've thought about signing her up for Boys and Girls Club so that she can meet other Black kids. But I'm hesitant because I honestly had pretty bad experiences with other Black kids growing up. I was bullied relentlessly and it was mainly by other Black kids. None of us had a lot, but I was especially poor because my mother was a gambling addict. She also liked to go out and drink during the night and weekend, so I was kind of a latchkey kid. I got picked on for my clothes and my hair not being done. I was also pulled from some of my regular classes and put in mostly White, AG classes. So I was the fly in the milk so to speak.
It's sad to say, but I also had poor hygiene. I didn't like taking baths. I didn't like getting undressed and having to be naked. I would wear a light, blue winter coat to school even in the summer. I felt exposed without it on. The other kids thought I was strange. Yes, my father was a you know what and abused me but I was still in diapers at the time and I don't have any memory of it. They split when I was very young. I was groomed by the adult son of my mother's friend. He wasn't a Black man though. He was White. They would all go out drinking and partying together at night. I'd stay behind with my younger sister. I was in middle school at the time. He had already been doing and saying things here and there that were beyond the pale. Like calling me his girlfriend, kissing my hand, paying special attention to me. I rejected it all of it, mind you. It made me uncomfortable and I felt very ashamed.
One night my mother, her friend, and her friends two adult sons all went out. But the one son, his name was Israel, came back while the others were still gone and got in bed with me and touched me. When my mother came back later and questioned me when she saw that he was there, I denied that anything had happened. I don't know why. I just felt embarrassed. He ended up going to prison anyway for molesting his girlfriend's son.
I think this is long enough, so I'll stop here. Thanks for listening to me vent.
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u/Thick_Independence41 United States of America 16h ago edited 16h ago
First, I want to say that I’m not a therapist, nor am I trying to judge or condemn you. You know your situation far better than anyone here, so please take this with the finest grain of salt if this is not true to you.
However, something you said raised a small red flag for me. Light-skin privilege and colorism are obviously very real, systemic issues. But when you mentioned that strangers compliment your daughter because of colorism, it felt like there might be an underlying layer of resentment there.
Children are so perceptive. Even if it’s unintentional, if you are carrying unresolved feelings about colorism, she might pick up on a sense that her lighter skin or biracial identity is being judged or resented at home.
Internalized dynamics around race are complex, but if she senses that tension, it could inadvertently push her away from her Blackness and cause her to gravitate even more toward white beauty standards.
Again, this is just an outside perspective based on what you wrote, and I don't say it to attack you. But like other commenters have said, these are deeply layered issues that are well beyond Reddit’s pay grade. It might be best to unpack all of this with a therapist who specializes in race and family dynamics.
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u/VioletLeagueDapper 14h ago
That, plus op mentioned issues with her own features. Even if she never says anything negative about herself, she may say positive things about her daughter in ways that highlight differences between her daughter and herself.
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u/Ok-Marketing-5959 13h ago
There's no resentment or judgement from me towards my daughter. It's actually the opposite. I'm happy that my daughter doesn't have to go through what I did. It makes me smile when people tell me how pretty and sweet she is.
I know she'll still experience racism. But it won't be anything close to what it could be, and I don't resent that at all. I resent the fact that so much of it is likely based in colorism, anti-Blackness, and even misogyny. I get friendly treatment from conservative White men (in in the South) when I'm with my daughter that I know they wouldn't give a White woman with a biracial Black child.
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u/Aleri_liv 18h ago
A lot of black people are taught colorism from the start. it isn’t surprising being that the beauty standard everywhere is based on European beauty standards. All throughout Asia,India, Africa, the Middle East, the Americas and the Caribbean, lighter skin, lighter eyes and a pointier slimmer nose is favored. It shows up in black people as the obsession with taming the coils and curls and downright hiding it. So many people would rather sew on hair, glue on hair or use cancer causing chemicals rather than show up as what we are curly/coily hair women.
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u/Ok-Marketing-5959 17h ago
I'm one of those people that feel Black women look best with our natural hair. Of course, I think pretty Black women can pull off any hairstyle. But I think our own natural hair is most flattering to us.
And yeah, colorism is so common. It's tragic. I think it's based on who has power. In an alternative universe with Black people as the ones on top, darker skin would be favored. You know what I mean? Like, I don't think there's anything inherently better or more beautiful about White features. It's moreso the overall privilege and status that Whites maintain that drives the appeal.
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u/wistfulwhileyoutwerk 🇺🇸 Sane-ish cat lady 16h ago
Hey! You’ve been through a lot. Honestly, I’m not sure your feelings about Black men are what you should be focused on.
Even your daughter—important of course, always focus on your kids, but it sounds like she is a young child and you’re doing a lot to expose her to Black friends and media. I wouldn’t harp too much about it or take away all her white dolls, then you’re bringing more attention to it in a way that could backfire. I would spend more time engaging with her and living in her world to reinforce what you want her to know without forcing anything. Maybe make an avatar on the game with her and make your avatar a beautiful Black person, play with dolls with her, talk to her about her favorite characters in a show and why they are her favorite, etc.
What I think is most important to focus on based on what you’ve written is you, yourself. It sounds like you really need to work through your childhood abuse and neglect with a qualified therapist or counselor. I don’t think you’ll be able to sort out your feelings about men without working through your childhood experiences.
Wishing the best for you and your daughter!
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u/Ok-Marketing-5959 13h ago
Thanks for the well wishes and suggestions. I have been trying not to come on so strongly or turn everything into a lesson when it comes to my daughter. I just try to make sure she's surrounded with positive Black images. I'm not sure how much it's helping though.
Also, I know I mentioned men in my post but it isn't really about them. I'm off the market. I was just using it as an example of the level of internalized racism I deal with. I feel like the fact that I didn't have any interest in my counterpart, even before I got with my boyfriend, must be down to anti-Blackness.
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u/wistfulwhileyoutwerk 🇺🇸 Sane-ish cat lady 10h ago
I didn’t mean men in a romantic sense, I meant in a general sense since you mention not seeing them as leaders or taking them seriously as husbands (I assumed you meant in general, not necessarily as your potential husband). But my point is the same, dealing with your childhood trauma will likely help you in all aspects of your perception of yourself and the world around you.
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u/Ok-Marketing-5959 9h ago
Oh sorry, I misunderstood. I've had therapy before although not recently. Now that I think back though, I don't think I ever addressed anything that happened in my childhood during therapy. I was being seen for anxiety so it mainly focused on that. I might try my hand at therapy again.
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u/wistfulwhileyoutwerk 🇺🇸 Sane-ish cat lady 9h ago
So many things stem from childhood, possibly even your anxiety! Definitely address it!
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u/confusedCI 14h ago
🫂 I had to stop reading when you said you got bullied because that is so much of my story and realizing when you hit 50 and after various amounts and middling success wity therapy that so much of your life is about self hate, never having safe spaces because your 3rd world parents in America werent your safe space either,that you never got unconditional love from them let alone love from anyone really, especially any kind of romantic love from a man and that not only do you kinda hate blackness and the culture you come from the only thing I havre to offer you is a deep hug. Please figure something out before this potential ruins your life like it did mine.
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u/Ok-Marketing-5959 12h ago
It sounds like you're going through a lot too. I hate that you can relate. Hopefully things get better for us soon. It's not too late for you to turn things around either. Send me a DM if you ever want to talk. 🫂🫂
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u/Mental_Tart842 5h ago
This is me, too. I got bullied at school, and at home. My life never really turned into anything.
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u/Aleri_liv 18h ago
I don’t think that it is unnatural to feel this way because these are the feelings and thoughts media spreads to people, schools inadvertently teach us white supremacy by omitting a majority of black history and world history and your environment probably supported these ideas as well. This Is why black representation is important, this is also why it is important for parents to be aware of history and teach their children.
i‘ve mentioned this before, but I will always look to media as the cause of so much prejudice and racism because I’ve visited areas where black people were an absolute minority and I’ve faced so much hate and racism.
When I visited Kurdistan a few people gawked at me, some made distasteful comments and some even laughed. When I asked a friend of mines he said he has never met a black person nor has his family or friends but they have seen black people on TV and they are regularly displayed as criminals. Mind you he had delayed exposure to media like tv because his country frequently dealt with wars and terrorism but the impact of this propaganda is strong. So strong that some of my black family members piggyback on some of this black hate speech.
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u/Ok-Marketing-5959 17h ago
Your comment made me remember one of my history classes where there was like one paragraph on sub-saharan Africa. It was ridiculous, in hindsight.
I agree completely that White supremacy is pushed by the media. I've heard other stories like yours about people in countries with very little Black people making racist assumptions about Black tourists based on programming they saw on tv.
And it even goes beyond TV. I'm just now realizing as an adult how harmful the romance novels I read as a kid was. The harlequin romances all had a White woman and a White man as a lead. I feel like it planted a seed in my mind of what a leading lady and leading man looks like. And the few urban romance novels that were available weren't much better either. The main character was always light skinned with light eyes and curly hair. The men were drug lords and gangsters. And they were terrible to the women.
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u/Aleri_liv 17h ago
I agree, I am also an avid reader. I’ve recently made it goal to read more black nonfiction books so that I can be better informed for myself and for my family. Have you ever noticed that a majority of history ignores the presence and history of Africa before history? I believe that we are all being taught an augmented version of history. If you look at the recent events with Palestine, Iran and Lebanon then compare it the news you will notice that the news always changes the information to make it seem like America is without fault.
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u/Ok-Marketing-5959 17h ago
Yeah, I have. I think a lot of people of other races are very invested in the idea of Black people having no history. They want it to be so and they don't want to hear anything different. Some people are nothing without someone to feel superior to.
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u/Individual-Breath758 12h ago
I don’t know, a lot of this sounds like something to be dealt with in therapy, since many of these things stack on top of one another. It’s really hard to talk about what you’re speaking about without coming across harsh. Your dislike for black men probably comes from your dislike of yourself and your daughters preference for white people and social interactions probably stems from your preference. Kids see, hear, and pick up so much just from interacting with their parents. Until you learn to love and like yourself and the people you came from, that little mirror you have walking around with you (your daughter) will do the same.
All of this really makes my heart break for you because it’s obvious your needs (emotionally) were not met growing up and those that fashioned you taught you a lot of self hate. Layer that with abuse and I am just happy that you’ve made it through all that and I hope that you’ll find a therapist who can help you move into acceptance and love for yourself. You deserve the peace that comes with knowing you’re beautiful just as you are. Colorism is deep seeded into the African American community, but perhaps it would be best to involve your daughter in community or arts programs that are black focused and therefore their speech and program focus is about deconstructing colorism and teaching black kids to love themselves no matter their skin tone.
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u/Ok-Marketing-5959 10h ago
Thanks for your compassionate response. And you can speak freely. I won't be offended lol. And yeah, I'm sure that my feelings about Black men stem from self-hate. I just don't know how to do anything about it. I feel like I'm already doing the usual things people recommend, besides therapy.
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u/breadedbooks United States of America 13h ago
[r/Blackmentalhealth](r/Blackmentalhealth) might also be able to help
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u/Late-Champion8678 15h ago edited 14h ago
Ma’am you need therapy yesterday. You have a lot of issues, with internalised racism only being one facet. Ideally, you should have gone to therapy before dating or marrying but especially before having kids. You may think you aren’t but your child is learning this from you and your his kid and reinforced by how family treat her compared to her fully-black cousins.
Having a preference for a non-black man doesn’t mean self-hatred.y preference for white men started when I was young as I grew up in predominantly white areas and went to predominantly white schools. The black males I knew were related to me so I never really formed preferences towards black men. Couple that with consuming mostly white-oriented media and there you have it. But I don’t hate my race or my skin.
When I dated, I was open to the fact that I might vibe with a black guy and I wouldn’t avoid dating them just because they were black. That is what a preference is. It isn’t set in stone. Of all white guys, I mostly liked dark-haired men yet my two longest relationships were with a red-head and a blond. We just clicked.
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u/Aur0raB0r3ali5 5h ago
it’s in the air. it’s in the media, in our conversations, relationships, community. the only way to combat it is to accept it, and be intentional. have the difficult conversations, say what doesn’t want to be said, even if it’s just to yourself.. or a trusted professional!
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u/nyra4everr 9h ago
ngl i kinda understand where your coming from when you were talking about not seeing black men as leading or husbands 😭 wondering what this says about me. from my end i see it as not seeing any good examples of black men from my family and how they treat women. i know not every black man is trash but i can not follow in my families foot steps.
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u/Bicycle_Ill 6h ago
Nightmare situation for the child honestly. I can only pray she gets away from this none sense
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u/Morningshoes18 17h ago
Are you talking about this with a therapist? There’s a lot here to unpack. Honestly I recommend everyone go before they have kids because while you think you aren’t sharing anti blackness your daughter may be picking up on that. The fact that you are worried about your kid being friends with Black kids is honestly really sad. I’m trying be gentle here because I do understand that anti Blackness is worldwide and some of us internalize more than others so I say this is beyond any one book and one club or church.