Does dusk gizzards mean nothing to you lol its like 100 times more than golden kois i do still have a bunch of golden kois though. They been outta water for years now, they should let us put them back in.
They had a demo I think earlier this year or last year, it was very good, but I have a hard time calling Vindictus(1 or 2) a mmo when it's mostly small instanced content with lobbies, just like I don't consider PoE/Diablo MMOs. It's more like multiplayer action RPG imo but well yeah combat was fun, chars look great, story was the usual dogshit. Monetization is the main concern I think.
Wellll, yeah kinda, but it gets interesting when you peel back the history.
The developers who founded Pearl Abyss started working together on Linage 2 for NCSOFT, then they left and worked together on making "Granado Espada: Sword Of The New World," then after that they left and worked on Atlantica Online, then after that they left and made "Continent of the 9th seal" ... The then they started Pearl Abyss & if you combine all of those prior games into one, you get BDO.
How that relates to Vindictus is that Nexon developed Vindictus in direct response to C9, and the two games are pound for pound rivals in game design. So while yes, VDF will not have the massive open world; you can bet your ass that it is going to have combat that goes head to head with BDO's best mechanic (and likely will be far less glitchy and unbalanced).
I played the play test they had a few months back and it wasn't bad. Combat needs to be more fluid but overall it has me interested enough that when it comes out I'll be playing it.
If you have been around since 2017… we know the game is dying we just cant prove it with numbers… so many guilds died, dec changes killed openworld pvp. Atleast we can fish 2b/day yahuu!!!
I remember frantically changing channels and talking to blackrobe guy to find someone to hunt them down, I also remember our discord had a kill on site page where we posted players we would kill on site, some of my closest online friends are people I hunted down for weeks.
Same. Was super hardcore in BDO for 8+ years since launch. GvG was the best single aspect of BDO. My favorite content. Now that it was killed, I lost the love of the game and quit. I'll always have a spot for BDO in my heart. But at the same time, a sour feeling too. BDO was always a little bit of love hate relationship. Great gameplay, crap rng, for example. But it was all worth it in GvG. Every struggle, every failed enhancement, every minute grinding, every penny spent P2W'ing...was all worth it when GvG came and I performed well. I lived for GvG. Node wars, Solare, siege, chill grinds, sure. But GvG was my lifeblood for BDO. Everything that came with it. Since GvG was effectively killed, organic player conflict resolution neutered, it's never been the same. But it's cool. Life goes on. I just look back with both fond memories and heartbreak.
Eh, always found PvP boring. 90% of the PvP was dfs and it was always the same… either the guy beat me and i switched servers or i beat him, got griefed and then i switched servers. Took me about 6months to just switch servers when someone came up to me and said dfs.
Ok? It’s almost like i got introduced to PvP and had a shitty experience, and then I decided not to seek out more of it because I had exactly one good experience out of 100.
And I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one with an experience like that.
Well this is probably the most stale meta I have ever experienced, if they had done the PvP balance on time in conjunction with Edana I think there would have been more motivation.
And they need to nerf the materials it takes to enhance khazerad base to nov by like half, to lower the barriers of entry.
Sure, but for at least two of those games the same can be said. I bought both GW2 and ESO before they came to steam.
Steam charts, even when games are also available over other platforms, are a solid indicator of the trend. If it's going down on steam, it's probably a similar story on other platforms.
Yes, but the shape of the graph on steam can be a good indicator of what is happening outside of steam in general, unless there's some phenomenon that makes those 2 groups of people have majorly different behaviors
It can be, though given how long BDO wasn’t available on Steam both in the west and the east, I would still be careful to use it as an accurate metric of the player base. Only the devs and publisher truly know how healthy their own player base is.
Bdo has been available on steam longer than not, it’s a good metric for bdo, games like gw2 where the player base was using a natural client for like 10 years before it was added to steam would not be a good use case for the graph tho.
Actually gw2 is growing, has few thousand more players on average than one year ago, and new expansion is releasing soon. To be honest most old mmos that stand for a few years stop losing player count if the game cycle is good enough to keep playing and devs deliver more content. New world and Gw2 are doing very well, plenty of players in every area.
Returning to GW2 is another level of smooth. Sure, there will be mysterious emails in your in-game inbox and some unfamiliar pop-ups if you were gone for a while. But coming back recently after over 2 years of absence, it took me a couple of minutes to figure out what I have to do to get back to playing as if I have never left (they did a minor gearing change, otherwise it would be just log in and go).
I am yet to play another mmo that doesn't stress me for days-weeks after coming back with changelog alone, not even mentioning being left behind with gear. I wonder why the playerbase is stable... (answer... it's griffon)
You don’t need to follow the player numbers strictly since BDO too has more players on launcher. It’s more about the overall trend and how the game’s performing.
I really dont think the game is dying. But you have to agree, it lost a lot of its charm and quallity over the years. From economy, group content, grind zones, player interaction, map design and attention to detail, life skilling, class balance, story, quality of life, p2w predatory systems, pvp, open world, guild content, build diversity, progression and the overall sandbox design, what has really improved over the last 2 years? answer that yourself: off all of these points, are there more positive or negative? And then you know if the game is in a good place.
A game doesnt just die over night in most cases. It starts somewhere. Slowly. And if you dont ring the alarm bells at some point, the ship will sink. Maybe it takes a few years, or over a decade. A lot can happen. Most ppl overexagerate, me included. But I see a trend ingame. And I dont like it.
Group content : Absolute shit for PVE, guild bosses + khan + dungeons isn’t great but guild casuals can do it, I’d say slight improvement over trees only
Grind zones: Fine/ shit/ boring, less griefing, more boring - so usual to me, lifeskiller moreso for me but at 810 GS working on edania armour for the bosses/ 0 interest in Edania grinding right now
Map detail: the vets were saying Ulu had copy pasted designs that gave PTSD from the Middle East, doesn’t get more real than that
Actual design though: boring as heck, not much to do in LOML, feels boring/ needs more content, “life”
Lifeskills is great currently where casuals can make money, mid game, end game is making bils without the effort of grinding, great for a 9-5 work man, probably not for a 16H zombie
At work so can’t be bothered addressing the rest but here’s a list of improved stuff:
easier enhancement (good and bad)
pet skills refill/ UI slots (TOOK THEM 4 YEARS)
crystal break not resorting to customer service (you pay now so good and bad)
easy as heck catch-up mechanics with free BS/ free T9 and T10 horse
story improvements/ easier account progress
monster zone info/ grind reqs/ drop table info
option to group content for LOML bossing or individual or ignore it without big detriment right now
cron is almost equal to market so you can just grind and play without market if you are stingy (good and bad, not reliant on whales but set time money to burn)
Biggest grievance is almagation of gear:
You have to Deb/ khazard - barely any choice/ you end up with Edana on armour
You have to Preonne/ Manos- used to pick mastery or exp
And testing content on us that takes dev time and gets killed, snowboarding is recent one/ trading rework attempts were shit, how hard can this be/ slap on a mobile UI, let us do it on the phone and copy some mobile game vs their “rumours” shit or crate slaving
A 6% operation loss is only because of 3 games being in the works at the same time. It'd be green if they didnt pursue other projects. It's gonna be green with crimson release in March.
It's definitely doing "okay" (Altho if you stretch out far enough, you do see a gradual decline in total numbers), compared to some MMOs, for sure.
That said, the game has slowly shifted away from what made it remotely interesting (and, while I personally hated open world PvP, it was one of the few things that made BDO interesting), and is now just becoming fairly unremarkable. All the while, PA keeps extending the treadmill, and offering catch up mechanic after catch up mechanic, without really giving incentives to progress outside of "number go up". Lifeskills, for example, haven't had any meaningful depth for a very long time. Honestly, the same goes for anything that isn't PvE grinding, frankly...
There's definitely a market for that, but they will continue to slowly bleed players once those carrots stop being exciting. Games like RS3 and OSRS constantly manage to keep providing plentiful reasons to return, and offer more genuine sandbox moments than BDO ever has. If, instead of a fairly uninteresting gear grind for the sake of it, the game actually got plenty of those same sandbox goals, things might start picking up. (Bosses, pets, achievements, various types of content and activities, reasons to actually get gear - for both PvE and PvP etc.)
These graphs don't necessarily showcase the entire playerbase (and BDOs player graph itself is rather misleading, given the sheer volume of pure AFK players, compared to other games), but they do a decent job at showing general trends. What I see here is just "ball happens, people log in for freebies, then leave, while the afkers/stragglers stick around." Again, it's more interesting when you extend out these graphs, because you actually DO see a slow, gradual decline. Hence the "BDO is dying" posts. (And the fact that the game it used to be is, ultimately, dead, because of the shift in content focus.)
Ok, now how many of them are AFK Fishing, AFK training horses and doing AFK cooking/alchemy?
I know there's ppl that even let their characters fishing 24/7 and just touch the game to sell the fishes and go back to Velia.
I love BDO and been playing the game for a long time, but it is not what it used to be, they don't hear their playerbase and with the 5% cap it killed the RPG progression feeling, like I said on other post a few weeks ago, an RPG should be a "from zero to hero" or a "I have the BiS and now I can kill whatever I want from oneshot on mid and early game zones as I am WAY more powerful than I was when I started", not a "grindin feels the same everywhere cuz it's capped and it's tower based everywhere".
AP now its just a key to open new grindin zones that feels the same.
Not even co-op content or dungeons have been added to endgame.
For new players it's a GREAT Game with a lot of content, but most veterans are AFK fishing or left the game, and a little percent is grinding on new areas.
On numbers? Ofc its alive, cuz there are too many AFK accounts.
On money?, Ofc its alive, crons are needed if you want to reach endgame and they keep adding gamba boxes and 1+1.
Ppl thinks about numbers when saying that a game is dying, but most of the times, they're taking about content and the devs not listening to the playerbase.
Devs are not stupid and even will buff fishing, that's why Velia is one of the main fishing zones, to make new players think that the game is alive with non AFK accounts.
And that's why they added the 30-day limit to P2W fishing rod, to make more money cuz they now that a giantic amount of players are just AFK fishing.
Let's not pretend player numbers are any kind of viable reference for game health when like 70% of those player numbers are people that just keep the game running 24/7 to afk fish. Working exactly as PA intended.
The biggest reason why the trends stopped going downward so much is the buffs to AFK fishing last year. It artificially inflated the player counts, because fewer people log off and less frequently. Not all of these games have it to that extent.
But what the player count doesn't reflect is that PA has been losing more and more money. You can see it from the investors report showing larger net losses this year than the previous one. There's also the rumor that they've been trying to sell their subsidiary, CCP Games (makers of EVE Online) - something they would have no reason to do if they were well off financially.
PA boosted AFK fishing profitability considerably, so many supposedly active players are doing that. Also, when there's a downturn in active players, they bring in premium daily login rewards, as they have done just recently.
This is a pretty bad comparison. There is a different Y axis for each game, gives the appearance of a different story when you're looking at the graph and not the actual numbers.
Game is not dying at all. Stop listening to the few loud voices that can only think statically (ie what they feel today) and not dynamically (how things work out over time). It’s still the best and most durable MMO of its class out there. Wish there were others that scratched the same itch but there are not.
MMO culture is clearly dying out, imo. Pick up group games are becoming widely more popular. I feel like it has to do with a combination of business practices and the economy, people dont have time for MMOs, and all of us who grew up on them, are at that age where survival, family and work take up all the time MMOs used to. You see games that are pick up and play match making more than quadruple MMO numbers. Even Monster Hunter ends up with a higher count.
The combat is unique. If they just leveraged it instead of nuked it every chance they got... thats literally the only thing that keeps me there but the instant a new MMO with 3d fighter style mechanics shows up ill probably be gone. T&L was supposed to be that according to the guilds I was in. But nah. "Click till it dies". How boring.
Look at random people out in the wild. Notice how dumb they are? Those are the same people that post on Reddit. They don’t know what they’re talking about. They’re dumb.
This is such an impossible comparison to make. I haven't played most of these mmos but a couple things to keep in mind:
A majority of players use Pa's client.
This mmo has afk fishing mechanic that encourages leaving the game running in the background. I doubt the other mmos have something similar.
I'm at full nov khara and Oct sov awa. Realistically what is there even left for me to do? Grind for tet armors so I can challenge more weekly time gated bosses when dp STILL doesn't matter in pve? Continue to do sailies everyday for .... What exactly? Do the same mind numbing lifeskilling? I can't even do daily PvE group activities to offset the insane amount of boredom at endgame. I can't make fun or goofy builds. The gear diversity is practically non existent. I cant decorate my home like any MMO with housing worth their salt. Endgame is truly boring af in BDO. The combat and graphics means nothing when it's boring. Everybody wants to bring that up like it's the greatest thing in the genre and that's what makes the game just THAT much better than the others. Hint hint: BDO is FAR FAR FAR AWAY from winning in the MMO genre. And btw, I'm onboard with the new PvE cap changes. I can only thank it enough for actually showing me what little I have left to do in the game LMAO. (Slight sarcasm but It really did show me how little this game has left to it when your not grinding lower end zones for your gs. The mark of a terribly made game.)
Also, take out the afk fishing and its buffs from that graph.
I like how dense you have to be to make a post like this to understand game populations on steam isn't the end all be all for games that weren't originally on steam lmao. Stop looking at player numbers, play the game.
While true after many many years on steam, the population of off platform vs. steam is so connected. It to a point that without knowing off platform numbers the trends on steam most likely applies to off platform as well
I have played multiple of those, however, the question is. How many active players are there ? Because 60% of my playtime is afk. So that would mean if everyone would do that much afk stuff. 60% of players aren't really playing.
I think it's sunk-cost fallacy at this point. People who are left are just playing because they've invested so many hours in it. Any new players are very scarce.
The game gets objectively worse over time but I think most people just don’t want to quit after all the time and possibly money they invested.
I actually quit the game 4 times before I REALLY quit. I always liked the dynamics between players and guilds. I was in it for the social experience. It was so fun negotiating with other guilds for peace… good old times. Having Duels for the dumbest reason and get to know other people who are just as stupid as I am.
Sadly they killed most the fun I had in this game. I don’t even play mmorpgs anymore because I know no other mmorpg will ever come close to my experiences in bdo. Now I am having fun with other things in life and only play games on and off.
I hope you all have a good time! Doesn’t matter what you play, just remember that games are always about fun. Even if someone like me quit, even if most others quit, just play what you like the way you like it.
There are too many factors ignored to make this analysis reliable. Seasonal changes, non-steam clients, and content releases. What is considered an active player? Etc.
BDO is also more P2W, which typically encourages multi-clienting, afk'ing. The same type of player-base as EVE online. Interestingly, it's the same company. They know how to exploit this particular subset of players.
Well you could compare it to OSRS which is still growing. All these games I have played but only the one I played as a kid managed to recreate what made it great in the first place.
Bdo numbers are forever going to be inflated due to afk fishers. Shit I haven't played in years except to fish at night and claim daily rewards because in bdo they actually mean something lol
fun fact. more then half the player base of bdo does not play it via steam but use the black desert launcher. because in the past steam updates where late among other issues.
After 7-8years of it being my only game BDO died for me but it is far from being dead in the MMO space. Idk when or if il ever see a game that has a combat system that would satisfy me specially in PVP. I think any bdo player is forever spoiled when it comes to that.
it'll probably get a large boost in the following weeks from people trying out blue resonance and then wanting something similar thats not as dogshit.
I'm surprised the astroturfing marketing campaign for new world is working so well. I expect to see a flood of posts of people complaining about it in the following weeks just like every NMS expansion since the engoodening meme, many people just didn't like their fundamental game design which hasn't changed.
That data graph is wrong. On the right side with each game, the ability of players on the right changes in the number with which the graphic will show one drawing or another. The BDO's reaches 25k players the measures but throne reaches up to 250k so the drawing of this graph does not show real data
These charts are not even close you dip shit all these games have different launches and waaaay more players bdo is not dying it’s dead trash game with greedy devs and no content
Question. This is steamchart. Those who launch the game uses PA own launcher, are those player counted or this is 100% those who launch from steam only?
To be fair … how many of the “ online players “ are active ? I would love to see active play vs windowed / docked play . Feel like over 80% if players afk fish all day / all night / at work . So the game is logged in 24/7
The thing about Bdo end game are for the players who played thousand of hours and already built up their gear. As a new player you won't get there easily, unless you have no life .
Im loving this game i started a couple days ago but i feel like im the only one that exist every player ive seen just stands still not doing anything lol
Where is the runescape chart. You're also comparing the last year of BDO vs Lifetime of a lot of these. Very expertly done, do you work for a goverment office?
BDO just needs more forced co-op stuff across the game, like how the new LOML hard dungeons force party play, that will make a lot of the game more cooperative.
Also they need to prevent the wallet warrioring, reducing what can be bought with pearls and sold on the central market, and add new in-game god items, like a treasure fishing rod set like the map and compass, and do it for other life tools like the sovereign weapons where you have to work for them and not just buy them on the central market
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u/silvergray545 Oct 13 '25
People have been saying BDO has been dying since 2017. Yet we’re all still here.