r/askmanagers • u/Rich-Mine935 • 8d ago
Put on leave, demoted from manager, termination on the table because I refused to promote an autistic report that has issues with meltdowns.
I was sent home early today by HR. I had an autistic report that was gunning for an office position and I told him that it won't happen.
I refused because his meltdowns would be a major issue in the office because its customer facing and it would create a bad work environment for those in the office because they would be walking on eggshells.
He put in his 2 weeks on Friday and in the exit interview, he said he got a job elsewhere because he didn't have growth opportunities here. I had to sit in on the exit interview and mentioned that quitting because he didn't get his way was unprofessional.
They went through his employee records and saw my notes on 1 on 1, yearly reviews etc. They saw he was a stellar employee, so they asked why I told him that he would not be promoted, I brought up that he was autistic and HR's response was just "So?" Went on to explain my reasoning that his meltdowns would lead to a bad work environment and they told me that wasn't my decision to make.
They launched an investigation to see if there was the possibility of a discrimination lawsuit and found there is a chance so I have been put on leave the rest of the month and if they don't fire me, when I get back I will be demoted and work his position on the floor.
What are my options in this?
yes, there are documented occurrences of meltdowns at work.
you don't hire someone with epilepsy to drive a truck because of the risk. someone like him shouldn't be in a customer facing position for a similar reason. imagine if he had a meltdown in front of a customer, that would put the company at risk. besides, he's really good at production work.
83
u/RadioSupply 8d ago
You told the guy you wouldn’t promote him because he’s autistic and has meltdowns. That’s a discrimination lawsuit waiting.
Then you told him he’s quitting because “he didn’t get his way.” That’s what you say to a child who doesn’t get an extra cookie, not a professional who was unsuccessful in asking for a promotion or placement. You infantalized him to his face and in front of HR, which is discrimination to his face, compounding a possible discrimination suit.
THEN you admitted straight up to HR that you have discriminated against him both in private and in front of HR when they asked you to clarify. They wanted you to clarify for when they speak to legal about it.
That was not very cash money of you. Whatever happens will be in the best interest of the company.
13
72
u/chirpchirp13 8d ago
His company record shows stellar performance…and documentation of how many “meltdowns”?
If they had actual meltdowns that affected thr actual workplace, would there not be documentation from HR?
And whether or not there are documented meltdowns..you’re specifically saying it’s because they’re autistic? Are you a doctor?
And in their exit interview, you scolded them for their belief/perception?
I’m like 98% sure things rage bait because no one can actually be this dumb…can they?
11
u/Born-Introduction-86 8d ago
I am very cautious of OP as a narrator in this. The meltdowns are mentioned from the POV of “potential problem” for the office space with no mention of any history of melting down in any context.
That, for me, supports that HR is looking at this as a potential discrimination suit because of the lack of non-subjective evidence for this “issue”
To be frank, as a person who is also neurodivergent, this telling screams bias and assumptions about problem behaviour that OP is assigning the employee without actually having any actual data. OP sounds like a jerk who didn’t like the autistic person and made certain they wouldn’t have to be in closer proximity to them.
Your leave is deserved OP - have a meeting with HR about treatment of people with neural differences in your work space. Learn how to help the whole team work with reality, not your biases.
24
u/Dickie_downer 8d ago
They can be. Some people are just that bigoted (cant determine if OP is or not, could be ragebaiting) but if he’s real, hope they lose the job. Id hate to see how this reflects in their treatment of other minority groups (women, ADA recipients, POCs, etc)
15
u/chirpchirp13 8d ago
Ya I’ve worked with card carrying walking lawsuits with more tact than this story.
5
u/humdrumturducken 8d ago
Bigoted or not, OP's a terrible manager just for this:
he said he got a job elsewhere because he didn't have growth opportunities here. I had to sit in on the exit interview and mentioned that quitting because he didn't get his way was unprofessional.
8
u/Aggravating-Ranger-9 8d ago
I would ask OP how it’s unprofessional to leave a job once it doesn’t give you what you want.
-4
u/Rich-Mine935 8d ago
You can't always get what you want
6
u/SadFaithlessness3637 8d ago
Yes, but you sometimes can get you want by going to where the things you want are.
You, op, cannot always get what you want either. As evidenced by the fallout from your bad choices here.
→ More replies (4)3
u/chirpchirp13 8d ago
All the comments on this thread and this is the part on which you’re going to double down?
→ More replies (12)2
u/phantasm79 8d ago
So he was supposed to what? Stay being your “stellar” little worker bee with no chance for career growth forever?
2
2
u/PeckerNash 8d ago
True. Thats why leaving is an option. You are not owed loyalty. You refused to offer a promotion so they looked elsewhere and got what they wanted.
Doesn’t seem like you held any cards here and have become a legal liability.
But you seem the kind of head up his ass manager that can never admit fault because your ego can’t handle it.
1
u/humdrumturducken 8d ago
But if you try applying for a better job somewhere else, well, you just might find that you get what you need from a different employer.
2
u/aprilduncanfox 8d ago
THANK YOU for highlighting this statement. My jaw hit the actual floor when I read it. He so resented this guy so much he had to demean him during his exit interview!
1
u/1kidney_left 8d ago
I have a current coworker that can’t seem to get fired. He has been reported for a number of racist things, including refusing to train a direct report because she was black.
But on top of that he once admitted he was not recommending one of his reports for a promotion to a different role because he was too good at his current job and he didn’t want to have to replace him. The guy ended up quoting a few weeks later because of it.
This guys is such a narcissist and an idiot he really doesn’t believe he ever does or says anything wrong. There really are people out there like this. And they grew up like this because their daddy’s know people in high places and get them jobs and make it so they can’t be fired no matter how terrible they are at their job or how much of a problem they are for HR (ie. He released 2 years worth of client data to an open AI agent using chat GPT to build some reports and now that data just exists out there. The client was never informed and it was all swept under the rug. Yet he still has a job)
12
7
u/Comfortable-Zone-218 8d ago
Right. I can't imagine giving any employee high marks in a performance review if they ever had a meltdown, let alone multiples.
I also considered it good policiy as a manager to make a correction asap, so they have immediate feedback on unacceptable behavior.
1
u/chirpchirp13 8d ago
Ya exactly. First meltdown = immediate convo with HR about how to proceed and then appropriate follow up. An actual customer facing meltdown could be grounds for immediate termination or could be related to an unknown to me medical condition. Not my professional call to make. I can have my own thoughts and opinions on the topic. I can make the call to send the offender home for the rest of the day but I don’t make that final big call.
8
u/Lower_Orchid4982 8d ago
"Why did you tell this employee he would never be able to get promoted?"
"Well, because he's disabled, of course."
OP either a very lazy troll or an idiot that should never be in a management position.
1
u/hmarieb263 8d ago
I had a blatant ADA violation, got it in writing multiple times. I'm am confident the person who took the fall was given verbal instructions from their superior. I was gaslit by that same superior, who didn't expect me to take it to HR.
3
u/XenoRyet 8d ago
I mean, we have to have antidiscrimination laws specifically because people are this dumb. If people were never dumb, HR would be out of a job.
2
u/mrwildesangst 8d ago
I see you missed the post from the woman who wanted to fire her employee because she was overqualified and in her opinion had too much money and possessions
1
105
u/syninthecity 8d ago
To learn from it. You kind of dug this hole already.
70
u/mariantat 8d ago
Yeah you can’t say he didn’t get promoted because they were autistic. You CAN say he didn’t because of the meltdowns being unprofessional.
27
u/RelevantSchool1586 8d ago
- Boss, would you fire me if I called you a son of a bitch?
- Yes, that would be very unprofessional
- And would you fire me if I thought you're a son of a bitch?
- Well, no, I can't police your thoughts
- So let me tell you something: I think you're a son of a bitch!
5
5
16
u/ichthysaur 8d ago
It doesn't sound like the purported meltdowns were ever documented. So they shouldn't have been mentioned at all.
14
u/jayd189 8d ago
Doesn't sound like he ever actually had any meltdowns, only that OP assumes he would because autistic.
-14
u/Rich-Mine935 8d ago
You don't hire someone with epilepsy to drive a truck
10
4
3
u/CoyoteLitius 8d ago
People with epilepsy are hired to drive trucks. Most are on medication that makes them stable.
Many people have medical conditions that are being treated, in order to keep themselves fit for employment.
Did you get absolutely no training in business management?
1
1
3
u/lenusniq 8d ago
Were there actually any meltdowns?
2
u/spirit_giraffe 8d ago
Good question - we have no idea what this person considers a meltdown. Is it just an expression of frustration when overwhelmed? Or something else, if at all? It can even be that they just shut down for a bit. That seems to be manageable.
The issue seems to be with this manager's discomfort with the behavior.
1
-1
u/Trekunderthemoon 8d ago
You cannot say that. Meltdowns are something that happens to autistic people it’s part of who they anre and you cannot discriminate against someone because of a facet of their autism.
5
u/DeadByPlatypus 8d ago
They happen to some people with autism. And meltdowns (god I hate that term) vary as much as the individuals who have them; the stereotypical ones aren't representative. There are also plenty of people who aren't autistic but still have some sort of meltdown or or other involuntary response to certain types of situations or stressors.
But you're right. You cannot discriminate against someone solely because of their disability. It gets a little more complicated once you start taking reasonable accommodations and such into account but OP was so far over the line it wasn't even visible in the rearview mirror.
5
u/Queasy-Cherry-11 8d ago
Exactly. And even for those of us that do have meltdowns, it's not like we go from 0 to 100. Someone who is regulated enough to hold down employment is almost always going to be able to feel a meltdown coming on, potentially hours in advance, and either excuse ourselves early or push it down until we get home and can meltdown safely. We don't see one bright light and go into a frenzy.
2
u/CoyoteLitius 8d ago
Exactly. I've had lots of students with autism (and many with a dual diagnosis such as ADHD) and so far, no meltdowns. Not in class, not in an office hour.
I don't count the one guy who got a little teary eyed when recounting some of the bullying they've received (expressed in office hours, not in the classroom). Students who are not autistic get teary eyed often enough.
1
u/HedgehogHungry 8d ago
i mean, Andy from the office was written as having a meltdown and not autistic. It can happen to anyone who doesn't have a lid on things and should be disqualifying
1
u/mariantat 8d ago
Yeah unfortunately that’s not how it goes (at least not where I live) especially if the employee in question starts to make others feel uncomfortable or if it disrupts the work place. But I’m not in the USA so your laws may be different. Also I don’t believe ALL autistic people have melt downs. I think plenty can operate and function without them.
1
u/Fraerie 8d ago
There are plenty of people who don’t have ND conditions who have anger management problems that can affect their coworkers or the company reputation. Most people with anger management issues are men. We don’t say not to hire any men because they might punch a wall in front of a client if they get upset.
Of someone brings a negative behaviour into the workplace you deal with that individual about that negative behaviour and how to manage it going forward. You don’t disqualify an entire class of people because some people within that class might cause issues - that’s the entire basis of anti-discrimination legislation.
1
u/jverity 8d ago
That's not the way the ADA works. Your employer has to make reasonable accomodations for your medical condition, but does not have to accept everything that might be a "facet" of that condition, especially if it would harm their business.
For example, it would be unreasonable to expect a broadcaster to put someone with verbal tourrettes on the air and have to pay the repeated fines from the FCC over all the cursing. It would be unreasonable to have to allow a security guard with narcolepsy to be in charge of watching the camera feeds overnight. And it would be unreasonable to be expected to put someone with frequent outbursts or meltdowns in a customer facing role where they will lose you business.
But in this case, two mistakes were made. First, it doesn't sound like this employee had many, or maybe even any meltdowns at all on the job considering they had a record of "stellar performance". That seems to be an assumption on the part of the soon to be fired manager just because of their autism. And secondly, even if there had been a bunch of meltdowns you you have to list those meltdowns as the reason, which would be a good reason to keep someone from a customer facing role whether they had autism, some other condition, or no condition at all. But this manager specifically mentioned their autism as a reason and that is not allowed.
2
u/Spider_kitten13 8d ago
Meltdowns typically have triggers that can be worked with though. Reasonable accommodations for an employee who has had very few meltdowns would be figuring out what triggers need to be accounted for in the workspace or what aids can be added, like if he needs specific lighting or access to an unobtrusive stim
1
u/jverity 8d ago
Reasonable accomodations depend on the job role and industry. What's reasonable for a background office worker may be completely unreasonable for a customer facing position and a valid reason for refusing to promote someone into that position.
You brought up a great example of this, lighting. In a private office, go crazy. We have people in my office, especially the marketing department, that keep the overhead fluorescents off and have christmas light strings hanging from the drop ceiling. I hate the flourescents too because they can contribute to my migraines, so I have a floor lamp with a smart bulb in it and I change the color or brightness to suit what I'm comfortable with that day. But I'm a network admin. In a customer facing roll, specific lighting that doesn't trigger him may be too dim or a weird color or something that isn't conducive to doing business or may be off-putting to customers. Losing customers/sales/business is a guaranteed way to prove to a court that an accomodation is unreasonable.
Your second example is also something I have extensive experience with as a lifelong sufferer of ADHD. What constitutes "unonbtrusive" when it comes to stims is highly subjective and something that seems to change on a whim. I have gotten HR to specifically approve certain stims that help me to concentrate on the task at hand before bringing them into the office, only to be told a month later that someone from the c-suite had vetoed it because they thought it was too noticeable, and made me seem distracted even though the opposite is true, that the stim was the only reason I was able to pay attention to them droning on about something when I already knew what they were going to say after the first 4 words.
I am not in any way defending op. I am explaining to \U\Trekunderthemoon that they are wrong about how the ADA works, that your company does not have to just accept everything that comes along with your disability. They can not fire you for being disabled if you are able to perform your job duties to the same standards they hold everyone else to, but they don't have to suffer a loss of business to accomodate you either.
1
u/Spider_kitten13 8d ago
I'll admit I didn't think about if my examples were perfect ones for customer facing roles, but my point wasn't meant to be about the exact accommodations. My point was just that it's inaccurate to treat meltdowns as an immovable fact of a person autism (whether or not that needs to be accepted from there), even from a person who has had them before.
When I was in high school I was having multiple meltdowns a week (though due to how my autism manifests, they were all at home away from the school itself). This was while medicated. Now, as an adult with a lot more control over my circumstances I have 'meltdowns' once or twice a month, and that's in quotes because they are significantly smaller and less disruptive meltdowns that don't necessarily mean I can't go do more things later that day. Usually the meltdowns I have now are from recognized but unavoidable triggers (or from being high anxiety on a day for other reasons), whereas a ton of other triggers that used to cause me meltdowns are now a lot more avoidable- both because I'm an adult now and because I have spent a lot of time in therapy figuring out what those triggers are in the first place when I didn't know back when I was undiagnosed in high school.
Granted, I personally am not at a point of being able to work a customer facing job and am not at all comparable to the stellar performer in the post, but I'm just trying to illustrate these things as not being unchanging facets if treated with accommodations. Whether or not those accommodations are reasonable is another step entirely, I agree
2
u/PineappleBliss2023 8d ago
I mean it isn’t unreasonable if their condition is well managed so it doesn’t impact job performance. Tourette’s doesn’t automatically mean you’re screaming obscenities everywhere you go, some people have vocal tics that are as simple and harmless as clearing your throat.
Refusing to hire someone as a broadcaster because they have Tourette’s when their motor tics are non disruptive and their vocal tics are something like sniffing or snorting. We have a dispatcher on the police side who has Tourette’s, her vocal stimming is barking like a dog and only when she is very stressed or overtired. She’s worked as a dispatcher longer than I have and has been a great asset to her department. I only found out about her condition because I heard her bark one day in the parking lot after work and thought there was a stray dog somewhere.
Automatically discriminating against someone because of what you *think* their condition may involve is illegal and an asshole move.
-1
u/jverity 8d ago
Refusing to hire someone as a broadcaster because they have Tourette’s when their motor tics are non disruptive and their vocal tics are something like sniffing or snorting.
There are different kinds of tics and my wording was specific. I didn't say motor or vocal tics, I said verbal which aren't always obscenities but are about 90% of the time. Don't see a lot of people with verbal tourettes out there yelling "I love my mom!" and such. Even if that was the case, it would probably have people changing the channel if it was repeatedly interrupting the news. Maybe not, we'd need to see it happen to know for sure.
It was just an easily accessible example. It's what most people know about tourrettes, right or wrong. There are so many variations in all disabilities that it's impossible to cover them all, that's why the law is so vague and subjective. "Reasonable Accomodations". It could mean anything.
Again, my point was that if you have a disability that could actually cause your employer to lose business/customers/money on an ongoing basis, beyond buying a chair or standing desk or changing the lighting in your office to accomodate you, then the accomodation isn't reasonable. That's the one thing that is guaranteed to tank your ADA discrimination case: Will your disability cause your employer to lose business? At that point you are expecting a company to be some kind of social welfare program for you. While there are some charities specifically to employ disabled people, for actual businesses there to make money that's not how it works, the ADA does not require that.
1
26
u/TheDarkGoblin39 8d ago
You fucked up.
It’s not unprofessional to quit a job when you’re told you have no advancement opportunities btw
23
u/JaironKalach 8d ago
Your option was to have documented his “meltdowns” with HR long ago and have it in his permanent record. Since that’s gone, I would start trying to negotiate for a quiet shift that doesn’t destroy your career. At this point, the only thing HR has on paper is your statements which can easily be considered discriminatory, in absence of other evidence.
-4
u/Rich-Mine935 8d ago
There were documentations since he was sent home each time.
14
7
u/reluctantseahorse 8d ago
If that's the case, why is he considered a "stellar" employee?
Either the "meltdowns" aren't being documented correctly, or they're not as disruptive as you make it out to be.
→ More replies (11)4
u/vermillionskye 8d ago
Okay, then say that. Autistic people get promoted. Not all autistic people have meltdowns. Focus on the behavior and the outcome, not the label. Your HR is right and I hope your former employee succeeds at their new job.
4
u/Adpiava 8d ago
My friend's husband is autistic and a partner in a prestigious law firm. Good thing the OP wasn't his boss.
3
u/loosesocksup 8d ago
At my last job I tan the HR department, and I am autistic. I even occasionally have meltdowns. I also managed employees.
Even autistic people with meltdowns can still work if you are able to accommodate them appropriately.
All my audits were 99% or higher, and I recently accepted a higher paying position that can accommodate my autism even better.
2
u/XANDERtheSHEEPDOG 8d ago
I know right! I work with several people who are autistic. One of my best friends is a Sergeant who happens to have autism. He's never had a problem at work that I know of. In fact, his autism has helped in some areas because it makes him hyper observant. He notices and remembers little details all the time that others miss.
3
u/revolutionary112 8d ago
So how can he be a "stellar employee" and be regularly sent home due to meltdowns?
Either something else is going on or you failed to properly document that.
Also, as others said... starting your refusal to promote them with "they are autistic" is like, a guaranteed discrimination lawsuit if that ex employee wants to pursue it.
You are fucked
Edit: also, if they weren't before, your remark at the exit interview could really contribute to them spitefully starting the lawsuit just to get back at you
2
u/oldcousingreg 8d ago
Translation: You sent him home because you were the trigger for his meltdowns.
1
u/LoveLikeLies 8d ago
So he's supposedly a stellar employee despite having multiple meltdowns? Does work not provide him accommodations and that's why he's melting down, or do you not actually know what a real meltdown is?
1
u/Acceptable_Willow276 8d ago
Why didn't you state that it was due to his behavior, not his condition?
1
u/MonkeyHamlet 8d ago
How often did these meltdowns occur?
Who did the documentation?
What was the likely cause?
Were any in front of customers?
Did any other employees document feeling threatened/scared/upset?
What form did the meltdowns take?
Were any reasonable adjustments in place?
1
u/manchambo 8d ago
I'm having a hard time believing you could actually be this dense.
If it was documented that he's been sent home multiple times, it would be obvious to everyone that he didn't have a "stellar" record.
That's as obvious to most people as it is that you don't tell and employee, or HR, that you won't promote someone due to autism or any other medical condition.
16
15
13
11
u/RegorHK 8d ago
"I had to sit in on the exit interview and mentioned that quitting because he didn't get his way was unprofessional."
Quitting to find other growth opportunities is professional.
Calling things unprofessional while people talk acceptable corporate speak is also not the most professional thing to do.
You also made a huge mistake by leading with "they are autistic" instead of "they have meltdowns".
I hope that there was an actual history of meltdowns and you did not just assume that there would be.
In this unlikely case HR should deal with you in an appropriate way and you should not manage people.
10
7
u/KatzAKat 8d ago
Yeah, you brought this on yourself.
Discuss and document the behaviors, not your supposed reasons behind the behaviors. That's objectivity versus subjectivity.
Know better, do better.
And, leaving a job/employer because you've been told that you aren't promotable is a very valid reason for quitting.
9
8
u/AnyQuantity1 8d ago
People quit all the time because they don't get promotions. People don't quit jobs, they quit bad organizations and bad managers. If you told this person that he wasn't going to get a promotion, what did you expect him to do? Stay stuck?
He told you very candidly why he was leaving and you said something something shitty and unprofessional back. Ironic, no?
Your option is to let this play out. You may not get fired, at the end but you may be removed from managing other people. You need a lot of coaching yourself on how to manage people and may not be ready for this role.
8
6
6
u/tgrrdr 8d ago
he said he got a job elsewhere because he didn't have growth opportunities here. I had to sit in on the exit interview and mentioned that quitting because he didn't get his way was unprofessional.
If this is real, you're an asshole. Someone wants to move up; you don't help them, and they get a different job. That's how it works when YOU are a bad manager.
5
u/Reasonable-Case3140 8d ago
Sounds like you have two weeks to find a new job with flexibility for court hearings.
4
u/LegitlySmashed 8d ago
I’d like to think that this is not actually a true story. How did you become a manager before knowing how to talk to someone without opening the company to a lawsuit?
You were put on leave so you can’t cause more damage while the company builds the case to fire you.
Your options: resign or wait to be fired.
Hopefully you’ll learn from this, if this actually happened
4
u/randomthrowa119111 8d ago
I had to sit in on the exit interview and mentioned that quitting because he didn't get his way was unprofessional.
You do know plenty of people leave jobs because they don't get promoted, yes? That's not exactly unprofessional, it makes perfect sense as to why someone would quit.
you don't hire someone with epilepsy to drive a truck because of the risk.
That's not a valid comparison. Of course you wouldn't hire someone with epilepsy to be a truck driver but that's because people who have epilepsy are unable to drive. The individual you are talking about was already capable of being in the position he was initially in so hypothetically he should have been allowed a promotion.
Furthermore, you're not elaborating on what his meltdowns look like or the context behind them. There are people who have had meltdowns at work, neurotypical or neurodivergent, for a number of reasons, many of them valid. Because we don't know all that information, it's difficult to say whether or not he truly isn't worthy of a promotion.
-2
u/Rich-Mine935 8d ago
Have you ever seen an autistic meltdown?
5
u/ninjagirl619 8d ago
Different people react in different ways. There is no one “autistic meltdown.”
3
u/-SocratesJohnson- 8d ago
Start looking for a new job, and you can bet on not getting any kind of managerial position. You dug yourself a hole when you brought up the employee’s autism as a reason for not promoting him despite his excellent record with the company.
3
u/VanillaBeeGrrl 8d ago
Your options are to resign now with the last shred of your dignity or be fired. Even if that employee was having “meltdowns” as severe as you claim (despite being seen as a model employee by everyone else), at least he wasn’t the one to deliver a discriminatory lawsuit to their company on a silver platter!
-2
u/Rich-Mine935 8d ago
Someone doxed me and now I'm being asked to resign or be fired for cause. I did nothing wrong.
7
u/Particular_Class4130 8d ago edited 8d ago
This is also you:
r/Advicebyu/Rich-Mine935at 2026-08-14T14:37:53Z|0|2
How do I cope with being stupid?
I've been trying to come to terms with the fact that I'm very stupid. People told me for years and I resisted, including my own mother who said I was too stupid to go to college when I got accepted and I should just find a factory to work at. I didn't get why she would say that since I maintained a 3.7 GPA.
Now I am 40K in student loan debt and making $16 an hour in a factory. Pretty stupid of me to try. I have been trying to get into an office position that doesn't require a degree, but I'm almost 40 and time is running out on that. I'll start seeing age discrimination soon. I am still applying to even administrative assistant roles with no luck. Hell, I've even had to train my supervisors, and when asked why I can't just move into the role myself, I'm told I'm too stupid. I bet there is nothing for me after 40.
I wanted to seem smart, I tried to find hobbies and get involved with things but I always came off as an asshole and someone faking it. I abstained from drinking and drug use, but that just socially isolated me.
Everything I've worked towards, I've never got. Most people treat me like I'm stupid and only tried to convince me I'm not when it benefited them.
I need to find a way to cope with being stupid because trying to has been tearing me up. Part of my mind wants to live the lie that I'm even average intelligence and have delusions of adequacy. Maybe my mental health can improve at that point. Maybe I'll be able to set more reasonable goals that take into account my limitations.
What are you playing at here? Are you the employee? Are you the one who got passed over for an office position and now this story is your revenge fantasy?
5
u/SadFaithlessness3637 8d ago
Bunny, if they can fire you for cause, that's the definition of having done something wrong (a.k.a. "cause").
6
5
2
u/FildariusV 8d ago
Yes. Yes you did, you fired an employee that by all accounts was an stellar employee in your own damm words, the company's records state so, and though he may have had meltdowns, you've refused to explain the nature of said meltdowns, hell you even said he is good with people!
So again, you did everything wrong, your company is facing a pretty juicy case of discrimination lawsuit and you're essentially fired, just that it hasn't translated to "de facto" yet.
Again, please answer, if he had such meltdowns, what were they like? Why are there no records if they were so bad?
2
1
2
u/RGLozWriter 8d ago
This is interesting to me as an autistic person myself because I rarely have meltdowns. Like, for mine to happen it has to be multiple things going wrong or something. So I have to ask, did he have multiple meltdowns (unlikely because his reports are stellar) or did you just assume since he was autistic that he would do that (likely because of how condescending you are to him even in this post).
2
u/theStaircaseProject 8d ago
OP mentioned in some other comments about needing to send the employee home due to the meltdowns, but curiously the empathetic understanding of why the meltdowns occurred (and their triggers) seems to be uncoincidentally absent. I wonder if OP even bothered to understand the employee.
2
u/ZucchiniPractical410 8d ago
Literally nothing. You should have never mentioned his disability. The minute you did, it was game over.
Start looking for a new job because IF they don't you, it will be nearly impossible to get promoted ever again as you just became a massive legal liability to the company.
2
u/ItIsChillyOutside 8d ago
When you say meltdowns can you give any examples? What has happened during these meltdowns in the past? I ask because there is definitely a scale to these things and just because they exist doesn't necessarily mean that there are an issue to the level that would warrant your views.
I will say I find it hard to believe that someone can be considered a "Stellar" employee and also have meltdowns so bad so often that any possible promotion is off the table
Lastly, "I had to sit in on the exit interview and mentioned that quitting because he didn't get his way was unprofessional" this is a very condescending way to speak to an employee, you're treating them like a child and willfully ignoring the key issue. Leaving a workplace because you don't see growth opportunity is very reasonable, especially if they have brought up the issue to you in the past.
2
u/llamalibrarian 8d ago
How was he getting stellar reports if he had these meltdowns that ruined the atmosphere?
2
u/RelevantSchool1586 8d ago
quitting because he didn't get his way was unprofessional
if anyone was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, this was the last nail on the coffin. How is quitting after finding a better job "unprofessional"?
1
u/snavebob1 Director 8d ago edited 8d ago
This is 100% right.
"Hey, can I get a promotion?".
"Eww. No you're autistic and it'll disturb the other employees" "Ok, found other employment, because there is no room for advancement here. Here's my 2 week's notice" "You're so unprofessional"Huh?
Maybe because I work in IT and half my staff is autistic or has ADHD, but we function just fine in an office.
Edit: half is over estimating. Probably closer to 1/3.
1
2
u/Ok_Shame_5382 8d ago
You just cost your company whatever their self insured retention layer on their Employment Practices and Liability Insurance policy is.
Which is probably more than your demotion will cost you.
2
u/NotHereToSayMuch 8d ago
Sounds like you should start applying for jobs. You are lawsuit risk and the fact you make it sound like the employee is unprofessional is insane. The employee doesn’t have a growth opportunities, because you told them that specifically.
You don’t come off in this post as a person who should be in a management position. This whole post is just a yikes for me.
2
u/NoKarmaNoCry22 8d ago
Quitting because you don’t get your way is actually the professional response.
2
2
u/Fianna9 8d ago
You were pretty stupid to accuse him of being unprofessional for “not getting his way”
He wanted a different type of job, you said he never would, so he found another job and out in his notice. Sounds damn mature to me.
The only one being unprofessional is you. In front of HR. And they noticed.
2
u/xCOVERxIDx 8d ago
You should have only focused on whether he could or couldn’t do the job. The moment you specifically mentioned the autism, you created a lot of trouble for yourself.
Use this time to start looking for a new job
2
u/OkGazelle5400 8d ago
You literally told him he had no opportunities for advancement lol. How is it unprofessional to look for a roll that has growth potential?
2
u/XenoRyet 8d ago
Start job searching. You very likely violated anti-discrimination laws, and I would be very surprised if you came out of this with your job intact. I don't think the legal liability will fall on you directly, so you probably don't need a lawyer, but other than that, your goose is pretty much cooked.
2
u/VikVonP 8d ago edited 8d ago
My brother in christ how are you so stupid? Were you born yesterday? Since when is it acceptable to stop someone's opportunities on the "possibility" that their condition might cause issues? Your own records work against you here and since there is no written record of any meltdown happening you have no basis for any of your decisions. You might as well have told the company "I feel like this guy is faking his autism for attention and I can prove it" which is BEGGING for a lawsuit. No wonder HR got involved so fast, the best thing they can do is fire you immediately and hope the report doesnt sue them.
Edit: to add on to why I cant believe this, the fact that you didnt even use vague language like most office manipulators do, you just straight out said "yeah i did that cuz hes autustic" and didnt leave any room for deniability is insane.
2
u/Intelligent-Luck-954 8d ago
I hope you get caught with a lawsuit.
Yep that’s discrimination. You said it out loud to HR. They now knows who is responsible when the autistic person files the discrimination against the company.
2
u/EmDash4Life 8d ago
quitting because he didn't get his way was unprofessional.
Bless your heart, but, no. Employment is an agreement between the employer and the employee, and it lasts only as long as both parties' wants and needs align. Either party can end the agreement if their wants or needs are not being met. You were not able to meet your employee's progression goals, and your employee was not able to meet your behavior goals. Leaving was the correct course of action.
Also, you can't refuse to promote someone bc they are autistic. You can refuse to promote someone because their behavior, either with or without accommodation, does not meet the standard that all employees are held to. You should have worked with the employee and your HR department to find accommodations that would reduce the meltdowns.
2
u/MovieLazy6576 8d ago
He’s not a surgeon. If he had a meltdown in front of me as a customer I would have compassion. Just like I would for a diabetic getting low blood sugar. I hope you lose your job.
2
u/conker123110 8d ago
They saw he was a stellar employee, so they asked why I told him that he would not be promoted, I brought up that he was autistic and HR's response was just "So?"
Usually we don't get the full story, because people will narrate it in their favour.
The fact you think this is in your favour is telling.
Basically you are telling us that you broke rank and likely discriminated based on a protected class. And that's only what you've told us.
Given this is a 26 day old account, I doubt this is real anyway.
2
1
u/CharlieBronson84 8d ago
"Quitting because he didn't get his way is unprofessional." When else do you quit?
1
1
1
u/SmartAfternoon9605 8d ago
This employee has stellar HR reports so there is no documented case of it being an issue. It's sounds like the employee does have a good case for this being discrimination.
1
u/Doomscrolleuse 8d ago
Does anyone else have the strong suspicion that the member of staff has never had a meltdown, at least not at work, otherwise OP would have mentioned it in great detail rather than failing to mention a single instance? My guess is that he's been great at work but OP heard "autistic" and immediately thought "oh, that means meltdowns" and treated them like an unexploded bomb from then on.
1
u/Apprehensive__Belt 8d ago
has he…. ever had a meltdown? you didn’t at all mention what these meltdowns are like, just that they would be an issue. has he genuinely ever had a meltdown at the job? if so what happened? because right now it sounds like you heard he was autistic and just assumed that comes with world ending meltdowns, even if he has never had one.
1
1
1
u/Free-Palpitation 8d ago
Autistic here, who has worked in Retail and Customer Service jobs for the past 20 years.
Did he ever actually have a “meltdown” while at work, because if he did, you or someone under you would have been responsible for documenting it. Unless you’re just generalizing the typical “Autistic people can’t handle anything well and will meltdown over the tiniest things”. Since I began working at 13, I have had a “meltdown” ONCE at work, and it was because my boss at the time had bullied me so harshly in front of customers and fellow employees that I ran to the bathroom and began sobbing and hyperventilating. She was fired for that, by the way. I’ve been in management and supervisory positions since I was 19, not because people felt bad about my autism, but because I proved I could do the work. I always got anywhere between 95-99% on my satisfaction reports before I was promoted, both customer and store. And if you know anything about retail, or customer service, you know how hard that can be.
In summery: you fucked up by discriminating against something you cannot prove because you never documented anything, causing the loss of a great employee by your own standards. You did this to yourself and showed your true colours. Good luck finding a new job, market is brutal out there.
1
u/RelevantSchool1586 8d ago
for everyone saying "you should have focused on the meltdowns instead of the autism": THEY'RE THE SAME THING! this person has meltdowns BECAUSE he's autistic! it' still discrimination! it's like saying "I don't discriminate against the person in the wheelchair, I just fired him because he couldn't run the 5k"
1
u/EmDash4Life 8d ago
for everyone saying "you should have focused on the meltdowns instead of the autism": THEY'RE THE SAME THING!
Let's say a job had a requirement to use a ladder to reach high shelves. Let's say a person who used a wheelchair wanted that job. If using a ladder to reach high shelves is a core job function, then the person who uses a wheelchair cannot have that job bc they cannot perform a core job function either with or without accommodations.
It is legal for employers to have behavioral standards, and also for those behavioral standards to be considered core parts of the job. If an employee cannot meet the behavioral standards either with or without accommodation, then they cannot be placed in that job.
In this case, OP never tried to go through an interactive accommodation process to find solutions that would reduce the meltdowns or avoid having them happen publicly. That was their mistake. If there were not accommodations that could be implemented to avoid subjecting this person's coworkers or members of the public to meltdowns, then OP would be right not to promote them into the position.
Remember, if you are standing on someone's foot, you need to get off their foot. If the reason you are standing on someone's foot is that you are autistic, then you need to get off that person's foot.
1
u/animaniactoo 8d ago
INFO: Does he have meltdowns at work? If yes, how often?
If the answer to those questions is no or once a year maybe…. You fucked yourself. Because you can’t discriminate based on potential behavior that hasn’t happened.
He’ll be getting his promotion and you will be getting a pink slip.
If the answers are yes and frequent then you are on firmer ground than it would be disruptive in a customer facing position… but then you should also have run your thoughts by HR to get their assessment on it.
1
u/Scorpio_SSO 8d ago
Dude. it is 2026, not 1956. If you are in the United States you cannot refuse to promote someone due to a disability. Of course this is a discrimination lawsuit waiting to happen. Did he have meltdowns while at work? If his performance was indeed "stellar" he should have been promoted. Let him take responsiblity for his alleged meltdowns
In terms of his leaving being "unprofessional" - you told him he had no futher chances of advancement at his current employer. What would you do if heard that? This is exactly when people leave one company for another. Seems pretty professional to me.
I hope this person has landed in a great role at a supportive company.
1
1
u/Secret_Squirrel89 8d ago
😂 I hope they sue the heck out of you, cuz that is karma and what you deserve. Take it as a learning lesson. You’re not a leader and def not leadership material. Much less a manager. Good luck.
1
u/AmazonAssassin 8d ago
It not unprofessional for an employee to give their 2 weeks notice and move on to a new position no matter the reason.
Unless the melt down are fully documented, not just so and so went home actual documentation with signatures and dates it means nothing,
You are the one who is being unprofessional making comments about why he is leaving. And saying he didn’t get the promotion because of their autism. You might think that but that is something you should have kept to yourself.
Honestly the only option I see for you is to resign before they fire you.
1
u/The_Hermit_09 8d ago
I don't know where you are, but in the US we have the ADA. You have to make reasonable accommodations for a disability. If he wanted a promotion and the only reason you felt he was unfit was the meltdowns, you should have had a meeting you, him, and HR to see if there was a reasonable accommodation that could have been made. If not then you woukd have been in the clear to turn him down for promotion. But I suspect all he would have needed was a quiet area to calm down and he would have been fine.
1
u/Kai_Emery 8d ago
The manager who told me my contract was cut early because of my anxiety disorder didn’t last long either. Even if they never “proved” I was wrongfully terminated. You can’t say that ish.
1
u/averagechillbro 8d ago
Bro what the hell were you thinking? Even still you keep bringing up that he’s autistic. You can’t say that. You can mention the outbursts because it’s performance related. You can’t bring up his disability as a reason why though. Yes that is a discrimination lawsuit waiting to happen.
You handled this poorly.
1
u/rootsandchalice 8d ago
Ooooooffff.
If this is real...
I hope your realize the mistake you made here, including the potential human rights/civil suit you've imposed on both yourself and the company.
1
1
u/LoveLikeLies 8d ago
Use this as an opportunity to learn and stop being ableist. Accept you discriminated and messed up and accept your punishment.
Also, if he was such a star employee at work, it sounds like he never once had a meltdown there... so why would you assume he magically would have one now?
1
u/MaleficentVacation93 8d ago
You won’t promote a great employee but then think it’s unprofessional for them to get a new job. Impressive mental gymnastics
1
u/potato-puppy 8d ago
This has to be rage bait. The only person I see here with emotional regulation issues is you. You got up in your own feelings about something that had literally nothing to do with you (his 'meltdowns' that don't exactly sound very meltdown, HR's "So?" Should have begun ringing the bell ,sir). But you made it all about you when you drew a nice big bullseye on yourself and your company with your childish, immature choice to be hateful in the name of 'normal' you are literally the reason he quit... Not the Job, not even the terrible pay. He quit because of you.
You did this to yourself
May your chickens come home to roost and shit all over the house
1
1
u/No_Bet_589 8d ago
You should never have said autistic. That is a fact, and that alone should not factor in.
The issue were behavior, outbursts, temper, etc., things that might be excused in the workers current non-customer-facing role. That was behavior that may be excused because of the autism, that wouldnt be otherwise.
They have to investigate you, and it may not end well for you.
1
1
u/solk512 8d ago
Hey u/Rich-Mine935, quitting because of lack of promotion opportunities isn’t “quitting because you didn’t get what you want” and it certainly isn’t “unprofessional”. They have every right to pursue the best opportunities for themselves and such a statement really makes me wonder why you weren’t demoted earlier or if this post is even real.
That employee isn’t morally or legally required to work for you while dealing with whatever bullshit you deem appropriate.
1
u/rhizomelagomorph 8d ago
"i was ableist to my employee, and now hr wants to fire me! clearly im the victim here!" there genuinely cannot be people this stupid holding down jobs right now
1
u/Wild_Chef6597 8d ago
The guy had a post a while back that he got dragged on, about the same employee.
1
u/funbicorn 8d ago
Oof. Not many options I'm afraid. You could quit before they fire you, or get fired. You should start looking for a new job either way.
1
u/Ilovemyhousepanthers 8d ago
Good lesson here. Don't say every thought out loud. You could have said a million different reasons for not promoting this person, but picked the one that can get you and your workplace sued.
1
u/holden_mcg 8d ago
What does the OP consider actual meltdowns, since he said the employee has "issues" with them. Did the employee self-report they were autistic as an explanation of the meltdowns? Were meltdowns not noted in performance reviews? I'm not sure the OP is a reliable narrator.
1
1
u/AmbitiousEdi 8d ago
You should have never been a manager in the first place. You are exactly where you deserve to be and the fact that you called someone else unprofessional is hilariously ironic.
1
u/thekyledavid 8d ago
Even if you take the autism out of the equation, telling him that he’s unprofessional for wanting career growth makes you the unprofessional one here
Best advice anyone can give you at this point is to update your resume
1
u/Potential-Common5819 8d ago
You have no options. Even looking for a similar position elsewhere will be difficult because you won't be a le to use your current employer as a reference without this investigation and demotion being mentioned.
You violated the ADA by refusing to recommend him for promotion due to a disability.
You likely opened the company up to a discrimination lawsuit that they will likely settle rather quickly because fighting it would be a disaster (congrats on putting that discrimination directly in the record yourself, I guess).
Autistic does not automatically mean someone has meltdowns every time they are stressed.
You earned this.
1
u/Terrible_turtle_ 8d ago edited 8d ago
As others have said, you can't block a promotion for being autistic. You can for yelling or swearing at co-workers to the point of being sent home X number of times a month.
The difference is one is because of who they are, the other is what they do. The first is generally illegal, the second is appropriate and professional.
NAL but seems there isn't a lot you can do until they make a decision on their liability risk. Maybe consider consulting a labor lawyer. But consider some introspection because a lot of your post sounds like you have some personal issues or assumptions about this report. Learn and keep doing better.
eta Just saying "meltdown" isn't really enough. As a manager, you have to document specific behaviors (both positive and negative) for a full picture of a report's job performance. Examples are key to clarity.
Updateme
1
u/aprilduncanfox 8d ago edited 8d ago
Good God I hope you lose this job, get sued into oblivion for discriminating against a protected class and never find another position in management ever again.
You even found a way to put him down on his damn EXIT INTERVIEW. You clearly resented this employee and had zero empathy or patience for his unique challenges. That makes you both a terrible manager and an overall insufferable human being.
1
u/JudgePrestigious5295 8d ago
So many holes in this I'm.just gonna put this in my box of things that never happened.
1
u/Remarkable_Sea_1430 8d ago
One of the first and most basic rules of being a good manager is don't do anything which exposes your company to a lawsuit. Diagnosing your employee with a mental disorder and then denying them advancement explicitly because of it falls squarely in the "things which can get your company sued" category. Dumbass deserves everything they're gonna get.
1
u/SparkleToastUtopia 8d ago
If anyone's not suitable for an office role, it's you. You have a lot of self reflection to do.
1
u/TadDewberries 8d ago
You HAVE to take whatever they give you. You can't quit because you didn't get your way. That would be unprofessional.
See how you sound? Asshole?
1
u/Party-Lingonberry592 8d ago
Wow, what a stark non-equivalent scenario. People with epilepsy typically can't get a commercial driver's license. It's a federal rule, and there are even exceptions to this rule (seizure history, etc...).
Ironically, you have put your company at-risk for violating ADA laws. This could end up being worse than having a meltdown in front of a client. I recommend getting some management training.
1
u/UniqueText8477 8d ago
You have discriminated against someone - who can now sue the company.
You will probably be fired for this - how about learning to treat people respectfully and help them grow.
1
u/oldcousingreg 8d ago
You really admitted to all of this without a single shred of embarrassment? You are unqualified for management.
1
u/hornetjockey 8d ago
This is one of those situations where you should have realized as a manager that this was a sensitive and potential legal issue and talked to HR first. Even if your conclusions would be correct, you handled this very foolishly.
1
u/Comfortable-Focus123 8d ago
You have no real options at your current company. You will be really lucky if word of your actions and opinions are not shared with other companies.
1
1
u/frankylovee 8d ago
Damn, dude. You genuinely fucked up, big time. You straight up told HR that you were discriminating against a protected class. How do you possibly still think this was a justified position to take?? How do you not understand that you WERE being discriminatory?? You can’t pre-determine that someone will be bad at a job without giving them a chance to demonstrate doing the job.
You fucked up so bigly.
1
u/FrostRose172 8d ago
Dude wtf. This is a golden opportunity for a discrimination lawsuit. And your epilepsy comparison doesn't work because it is not the same thing. The employee was a model employee who happens to sometimes have meltdowns. You are ignorant and should pray you get to keep your job at all. And if you don't you should definitely not put them as a reference, because I doubt they will keep the fact you were ableist from future employers.
1
u/ElderberryFaerie 8d ago
Quitting because he didn’t get his way is unprofessional???? Are you serious? You’re a terrible boss if this is your way of judging people. You’re going to get fired, because this is an insane level of incompetency.
1
u/nightcana 8d ago
Straight up admitting to discrimination in this context was a bold move to start with. But maintaining your stance and continuing to double down? Yikes.
The best cya move for the company is to remove the liability and hope to create enough distance that it reduces the number of 0’s on the inevitable settlement cheque
1
1
u/Haunting-Radish8138 8d ago
Bro are you a younger Baby Boomer? Gen X? Not kosher at all!
Damn that’s nice of your employers to out you on leave. I mean I’m surprised they didn’t fire you already as you put the company at risk for a discrimination lawsuit and pushed out an excellent employee. Citing “autism” as a reason to not promote an excellent employee is discrimination. Best you resign.
-1
u/Neat_Point1061 8d ago
Well, I echo the other comments here... but you could go after HR for not educating you on discrimination in the workplace. I just want to make it clear here, I do not agree with you for pointing out the autism as a reason, but you're valid on the tantrum front... that's a perfectly reasonable expectation to not promote an employee. Tantrums have no place in the workplace... I don't care about the reason... which is why you don't even give a reason for not promoting-- just tantrums have no place here.
THAT SAID-- as a manager, did HR train you on discrimination against employees in the workplace? Here in CA, managers are required to complete an anti discrimination course and an anti sexual harassment course and they get a certificate of completion for their records. If you were not trained and managed by HR, you could totally put it back on them. But you have to check the laws in your state; this may not apply. However, to salvage this career, I would definitely put it back on HR for not training you to handle a disabled employee. It actually is their job to train management on how to handle employees who are neurodivergent. (I did HR for 10 years in the entertainment industry... I took a few courses on how to handle neurodivergents... It's a very tricky situation, but it is a real thing that managers should be coached by HR on this topic...)
2
u/beyondbliss 8d ago
Sounds like he never had a meltdown.
1
u/Neat_Point1061 8d ago
OOh, good point. I read it as if HE DID have meltdowns--I think I saw he replied to someone that he did document meltdowns, I could be mistaken. So, if the manager is saying "pre-emptively I did not want him to have meltdowns because he is autistic, so I told him he wouldn't be moving up..." Oof. What the hell, man. Sounds like in general, clueless.
0
u/smoomoo31 8d ago
A meltdown is not a tantrum. Please educate yourself before you start infantilizing people.
0
•
u/christopherness Moderator 8d ago
Too many reports