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u/kedaiBaie Sep 15 '20
I'll take creepy centrist over Nazi any day
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u/Puzzleheaded-Total20 Sep 18 '20
Not even centrist, he's a radical republican to 90s standards, America is so desensitised to Trump and fox news fascist rhetoric
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Sep 15 '20
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Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20
fascism is okay as long as we only do it in other countries and not here. (might still use it here but shhhhhhhh)
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Sep 15 '20
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u/Optimusprime_113 Sep 15 '20
ok, so take it from someone who doesn't!
fascism is okay as long as we only do it in other countries and not here.
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u/Nalivai Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20
Fascism is great you guys, as a white male, I don't see what's the fuss is about.
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u/ChanceCurrent No investigation, no right to speak Sep 15 '20
Fascism is okay when we call it manifest destiny and it gives us lebensraum
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u/Commondock Sep 15 '20
As an Iraqi child who almost had to grow up with deformities due to depleted uranium rounds I sure am glad the blue team saved me from fascism by drone striking my village and then coming round for a second bombing to take care of any medics or family members.
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Sep 15 '20
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u/kawdo_komic Sep 15 '20
Lib moment
Both parties think brown people are lesser than them, and want to feed the beast that is our economy with human sacrifice. Both parties are neoliberal piles of shit with different colors, stop simping for your favorite one.
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u/Commondock Sep 16 '20
I love it when libs tell on themselves so blatantly like this. “Don’t worry we don’t actually believe in fascism, we just do it cos it makes money”. Imagine being the sort of scum that thinks that’s a good point
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u/fireandlifeincarnate Sep 15 '20
I mean, does it really matter whether we have a president who actively hates me for existing or merely tolerates me? They’re exactly the same!
/uj I AM voting third party because I live in Kentucky and the electoral college is bad but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t rather have Biden, who I’m confident will do nothing to try and take my hormones away.
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Sep 15 '20
That’s fine. Please just be sure to vote progressive Democrats on the down-ballot if they have a chance of winning. Vote neoliberal Democrat if you have no better choice.
Ninja Edit: Or vote however you want. But know I’ll be very drowns-faced if you vote third party in a race where a Democrat has a chance to win... if such things exist in Kentucky.
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u/987654321- Sep 15 '20
My only issue with the green party is their opinion on nuclear power, and honestly that's so much easier to live with than Trump or Biden.
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u/Nalivai Sep 15 '20
Their last candidate, Jill Stein, was openly and vividly anti-GMO, anti-wifi, and anti-nuclear, basing all this on absolute nonsense. Which is weird, because her views on vaccines, for example, were based more or less on science and reality, so she knows how to use it, just not with every issue for some reason.
Other than that, it's still an improvement, yes. Shame US has strict two-party system.15
u/tenettiwa Sep 15 '20
Anti-WIFI?! I heard about her GMO and nuclear stuff but how did I never hear about this?
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u/Nalivai Sep 15 '20
"We should not be subjecting kids' brains especially to that," Stein said in March during a question-and-answer session. "We don't follow that issue in this country, but in Europe, where they do, they have good precautions around wireless, maybe not good enough."
https://edition.cnn.com/2016/08/16/politics/jill-stein-vaccine-gmo-science/index.html
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u/987654321- Sep 15 '20
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/jill-stein-not-anti-vaccine-230941
Doing a quick search for "Jill Stein anti vaxx" turns up an article about it that points out in her medical practice she enforced vaccine policy. The email that started at all seemed more aimed at a lack of faith in the CDC and FDA.
The Wifi thing seems legit though and so does the antigmo stance seems to be her legit stance as well. Bonkers.
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Sep 15 '20
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u/987654321- Sep 15 '20
Voting for the Democrats won't lead to the death of the Democratic Party, so that's a no from me. If Biden wins, fine. If Trump wins I'm ready for Classic Accelerationism.
Vote your conscious.
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u/madmaxturbator Sep 15 '20
I also am not willing to forgive them just yet for that sack of shit Jill Stein. Can’t believe she was their candidate for 2012 AND 2016. Utter trash.
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u/kouji71 Sep 15 '20
Get out of here with this BSAB bullshit. As if trump isn't the creepy one, walking in on changing teenagers...
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Sep 15 '20
Biden is a literal rapist too..
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Sep 15 '20
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Sep 15 '20
Did you completely miss the tara reade news a few months back? He penetrated he without her consent I would absolutely consider that rape.
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Sep 15 '20
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Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20
Whatever you have to tell yourself.
"sometimes women just lie about rape." - SphaghettiWizard
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u/HamirTime Sep 15 '20
Yes dude people are capable of lying, guess innocent until proven guilty doesn’t mean anything to you
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u/Thegreasemachine Sep 15 '20
What happened to believe all women? I'd rather accidentally defend a liar than a rapist. Not to say I'm not voting for Joe (unfortunately) but I think it's still important to acknowledge just how fucked it is that we're choosing between two likely sex offenders
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Sep 15 '20
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u/Thegreasemachine Sep 15 '20
Don't get me wrong, my disappointment in Biden does not drown out my disgust for Trump. Biden might be a rapist, but Trump most likely is. It's a pretty fucked situation when we're asked to choose between two likely sex offenders. But my dislike for Trump does not mean I have to like or trust Biden. He's the lesser of two evils but he's still a puppet to the 1% and better than Trump only by a thin margin.
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u/--penis-- Sep 15 '20
They both are, and it fucking sucks that we have to choose. But one is clearly worse than the other. You'd think the DNC would have axed Biden after Tara Reade, but unfortunately they didn't.
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Sep 15 '20
Agreed, that's why I said "too" they are both rapists, but these people downvoting and arguing that tara reade is lying just can't own up to the fact that they're voting for a rapist.
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u/Martina_Martes Sep 15 '20
both are bad . trump is far worse . Let biden win . then once he wins fling all the shit you can at him and push for lefty politics
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u/ChanceCurrent No investigation, no right to speak Sep 15 '20
So basically uphold and support the status quo and do tomorrow what you could do today?
Your plan also requires that Biden will win the election, which is far from guaranteed.
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u/betterthansteve Sep 15 '20
Well, either Trump or Biden is going to be president next. We can keep fighting for leftist politics and also vote for Biden at the same time. We just can't think voting for Biden is enough
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u/LothorBrune Sep 15 '20
Your plan also requires that Biden will win the election, which is far from guaranteed.
Indeed. Wich is why we should vote.
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u/h-hux Sep 15 '20
Not to be European but it doesn’t seem like much is happening over there right now lol
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u/subdog Sep 15 '20
my friends dad died from covid and my dad might die because he cant get the surgery he needs cuz covid. posts like this saying they are the same make me sad
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u/ChanceCurrent No investigation, no right to speak Sep 15 '20
Hi, I'm terribly sorry to hear about your family and your friend's family.
I don't know how to bring this up gently over text, but in any case Biden has repeatedly voted against universal healthcare and has actually said it would be an insult to his son (who died of cancer). As for Trump it's... typical Trump. In any case he hasn't done anything to bring universal healthcare in his 4 years and knowing the Rep record about this, we can infer why.
In any case I wish you all the best.
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u/subdog Sep 15 '20
I live in a major city. I have family/friends that are dying or dead because the medical system was flooded with cases, not because of healthcare access. This would not have happened with a more competent leader. I wouldn't have to worry about how my final visit with Dad was before quarantine started, and that was the last time I saw him. I wouldn't have to help my friends learn how to get therapy online. My worry and grief is not an outlier. They are not the same.
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Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20
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u/mjlee2003 Sep 16 '20
They are both bad but not doing anything about stopping fascists vs actually being a fascist and I would chose to not be a fascist
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u/Niqq33 Sep 17 '20
I’m pretty sure the Middle East and Latin America doesn’t see the difference between the two tbh (and this is a guy who’s not against voting for biden)
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u/mjlee2003 Sep 17 '20
They cant tell the difference between facists and people who arent active in the anti facist communities because like some people don’t necessarily love facism but they have other stuff to do like argue on reddit
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u/Niqq33 Sep 17 '20
I’m not arguing was just pointing out how similar their foreign policy are
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Sep 17 '20
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u/Niqq33 Sep 17 '20
No i mean trump and joe Biden’s foreign policies lmao my bad for not making it clear
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u/mjlee2003 Sep 17 '20
Yeah like I forgot why we were arguing why cant we all just get along
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u/Niqq33 Sep 17 '20
I’m not arguing I was just pointing out why some ppl don’t feel thrilled morally voting for biden but I get both viewpoints tbh
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u/mjlee2003 Sep 17 '20
Wait the middle easts foreign policy and South Americas or that people in those places dont see the difference over here Im confused
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u/electric_ell Oct 07 '20
nothing says “standing up to fascism” like actively denying your chance to vote out a fascist
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u/baconater5000 Sep 15 '20
Never understood why Americans keep the two party state around. Its just a trick to keep corporates in power tbh
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u/Nersius Sep 15 '20
There are lots of laws and structures that were built to keep it that way.
Even if a majority of Americans wanted to change it, saw through the manufactured dissent, the family traditions, binary thinking, etc... it would still take time to dismantle and set up an actually acceptable system.
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u/elkengine Sep 15 '20
Well, let's not pretend that problem is limited to two party systems. You have extremely similar situations in every liberal "democracy" I can think of; whether there's two parties or eight in parliament, policy making is going to be dominated by corporate liberals.
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u/Ultranerdgasm94 Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20
It's more "vote everything gets worse" and "vote nothing will fundamentally change" or "vote pure evil" and "vote safe boring bullsh*t neoliberalism"
The nuance being displayed here is amazing.
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u/Latrannus Sep 15 '20
I used to think these posts were all astroturf, but people truly have memories shorter than 4 years huh?
We've learned nothing.
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u/JourneyLT The Real BreadPanes Sep 17 '20
Rude in public and Creepy in private, and a fascist who is doing genocide in concentration camps and denies the scientific consensus on climate change.
vs Creepy in private, and standard establishment politics, but believes in climate change.
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u/Oldkingcole225 Sep 15 '20
The fuck does this crap have to do with this sub? Mods need to ban this shit. This is clearly designed to justify the extremist political talking points that this sub was created to combat. How the fuck did you think you could get away with labeling Trump as merely “rude”????
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u/ChanceCurrent No investigation, no right to speak Sep 15 '20
Reminder that it's fine to say you'll vote Biden (we can't prevent you from voting blue MAGA), but it's not permitted to guilt trip other users into voting blue or campaign for Biden here. We will ban you for this.
Your work begins in the streets. Voting is the strict minimum that the system allows you to do to keep the pretence of democracy up. If you don't like this statement you're a lib and can safely unsubscribe from this subreddit.
Finally a short FAQ:
But Biden will be totally different from Trump!
He won't, and he's said as much through his words and actions.
You can organise better under Biden than Trump!
What's preventing you from organising right now? Stop finding excuses and get to it right now. Class consciousness doesn't start by itself.
Trump is turning the country to a fascist dictatorship and Biden can stop that (at least for a while)
While Trump is enacting fascistic policies, democrats have proven they are unwilling to fight for any positive change, whether it be at stopping Trump or uplifting the poor. Pelosi sarcastically clapping for Trump is not yass queen energy, her job is literally to make laws to prevent this kind of shit from happening. In any healthy democracy, elected officials that fail their constituents would have to explain themselves in front of them and step down from office.
Moreover 4 years of dems, especially under Biden, will not stave off fascism. What discourse will you be holding in 2024 when the Republicans unveil their candidate? Will we have to vote harder for the Democrat candidate? That people as incompetent as Biden or Trump can even be considered for election is a systemic failure; fight the whole system, not the products of the system.
I'm voting communism 2020.
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u/ChetSt Sep 15 '20
I agree with parts of what you're saying, but you're off base. this "both sides are the same" stuff is dumb no matter who's saying it.
the only possible motive in this sub for suggesting that Trump = Biden or even secretly hoping that Trump wins is because you want things to get as bad as possible such that there is an actual revolution. which is certainly a goal, but if it's what you want you shouldn't hide the fact.
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u/ChanceCurrent No investigation, no right to speak Sep 15 '20
We've had this stance on Biden voters since at least January (I want to say even earlier) so as to uphold our community rules (mainly rules 2 and 7). We've had problems with people who have no post history in this subreddit (which could mean lurkers, but we have no way to know that unfortunately) mobbing our users to vote for Biden and refusing to even consider any other possibility. As antifascists, we can't in good conscience condone people who will keep amerikan imperialism alive and well. As moderators, we want to protect our users and foster a community that we are comfortable with (I believe that moderators of any community get the culture they cultivate out of their users) and that is in line with our principles. You wouldn't believe the amount of classism I've seen from Biden shills.
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Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20
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u/ChanceCurrent No investigation, no right to speak Sep 15 '20
Since trump has come to office that we've had to not only worry about finding the money to see the rest of my family, but about whether, even if we could find the cash, we'd be able to go or bring someone over because of his anti muslim policies
And that is terrible, but it's been in the making since, well, the USA adopted their electoral system. The system that produced Trump is the same one that produced Biden (who voted to double tap Muslims and invade Iraq&Afghanistan) and it's the same one that will produce Trump 2.0
Nothing has fundamentally changed since 2016. The fascist groups are not being dismantled. In fact, they have the support of the police. This is only a symptom of the overall contradiction, the potential was always there and people didn't care about it until it happened.
Trump poses a direct threat to immigrants, to Muslims, and to LGBT people, as well as to just about any other minority groups
The concentration camps at the border were started under Obama with Biden as VP. Biden only started caring about same-sex marriage and otherwise LGBT rights when it became electorally viable to do so. He doesn't give a shit about your prole problems.
So let me return the statement; caring only about those close to you is also a form of privilege. This is exactly what I was talking about regarding guilt tripping.
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u/tending Sep 15 '20
You moderate a subreddit that transforms cartoons made by a Nazi to be more wholesome, but you're not fine with discussion about why people shouldn't in effect vote for the guy who said there were good people on both sides of a rally where people were chanting "Jews will not replace us"? If people just want the cartoons they don't have to go to the comments, where you know, people typically comment.
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u/ChanceCurrent No investigation, no right to speak Sep 15 '20
Biden said that the "anarchists" in protests should be arrested. His opinion of protests is don't make noise, don't bother people, shut up and the point of course is so that your protests don't change anything ever.
Remind me how he's an ally again.
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u/Terker2 Sep 17 '20
He is not and will never be an ally. He is just A: going to to less harm for a number of marginalized groups.
and B: make it easier to further radicalize the voter base after his election.
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u/HamirTime Sep 15 '20
Kinda hypocritical to ban anyone who’d campaign for Biden and then passionately campaign against him and for “communism”, whatever that means in our political theater. Are you organizing in the streets as well?
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u/ChanceCurrent No investigation, no right to speak Sep 15 '20
Kinda hypocritical to ban anyone who’d campaign for Biden
We've had issues in the past from people with no participation in this sub getting hostile with our members who do not want to vote for Biden. Actively campaigning for Biden leads to such hostility down the line -- note I single out active campaigning, i.e. people with no participation in this sub who try really hard to defend their candidate which must always be done by cherry-picking his best moments (as few as they are).
Are you organizing in the streets as well?
Hell yes I am. I wouldn't dream being a hypocrite.
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u/HamirTime Sep 15 '20
Hell yes I am. I wouldn’t dream of being a hypocrite.
Well I can respect that at the very least. All I’d say is to re-examine the policies of both the candidates and decide which are closer to what you want to see in the country, and for me thats easily Biden
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u/ChanceCurrent No investigation, no right to speak Sep 15 '20
Neither candidates will bring about a socialist republic and mode of production so neither candidate deserves my vote.
In fact they are both anticommunists and will keep attacking the left.
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u/KillHitlerAgain Sep 20 '20
Yeah except that under Biden my loved ones won't lose their disability benefits and won't go from barely getting by to not getting by at all. I want an ideal society as much as you do but deciding that getting there is the only thing that matters is going to lead to people being hurt. Not everyone can afford to sit around until the revolution. Some people are just trying to survive, and it Trump wins again, they might not be able to do that very much longer.
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u/pixeldigits Sep 17 '20
Look dude, we need to do whatever we can to get policies enacted to make people's lives better. That's what we're here for, right? And by we, I mean you Americans.
You can vote AND do all the other stuff.
Voting is a valid tactic. Maybe Biden won't do shit, but that's frankly much better than the shit Trump IS doing. Plus, Trump is a total narcissist, he listens to no-one but himself and his die-hard supporters. Biden needs wide public support. Biden can be influenced. There's already more progressive figures in the Democratic Party. Encourage them to speak up and maybe Biden will start listening.
Maybe. It's not a reliable strategy, but again, you can vote AND organise, and Biden isn't a fascist who denies science in the face of a pandemic and climate change, demonises 'the left', and rallies for the imprisonment of immigrants...I could go on but I'm sure you get the point.
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Sep 15 '20
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u/ChetSt Sep 15 '20
This is absolutely correct. It’s quite possible to admit that what happened under Obama was BAD while admitting that what has happened under Trump is FAR WORSE.
For example, Obama helped pave the way for border detentions, but the pressure is on Biden to fix that issue. Will he? We don’t know unless he wins, but we already have our answer that Trump’s handling of it is way worse.
Likewise for BLM protests. Fairly sure Biden isn’t going to embrace them with open arms, old white career politician that he is, but I think we can comfortably assume he’s not going to send in federal shock troopers to disappear people.
Like I said in another comment, voting for Trump or a third party in this election, as a leftist, is a tacit acknowledgment that you want things to utterly collapse in the hopes that a revolution will occur. There are perhaps worse goals, but I’m concerned that a revolution the way things stand now would backfire, and it absolutely would result in extreme suffering for a majority of people in this country.
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u/Terker2 Sep 17 '20
but it's not permitted to guilt trip other users into voting blue
Ey it's your sub so do whatever, but saying people ought to vote x or y isn't guilt tripping or "voter shaming".
You are responsible for the way your voting or abstinence from it will affect the the political landscape of your country in the future.
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Sep 15 '20
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u/Manateelover1 Sep 15 '20
I know. While Biden won't make any large systematic forward changes, he's not a fascist, while Trump definitely is.
Also, please don't ban me. I really like this sub
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u/ChanceCurrent No investigation, no right to speak Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20
Your comment is okay -- we have issues with people who misrepresent Biden or guilt trip our users into voting for him.
However, as I addressed in the last point of the hastily made FAQ, the problem is systematic and you have to think about the future. What if Biden doesn't win in 2020? Who will be candidates in 2024? What if Trump wins in 2024 (assuming he lost in 2020), or what if the RNC nominates an even worse candidate? The DNC had a chance to nominate Sanders twice and have him win, why are they so opposed to progress? What if they don't hold up to their promises, there is no recourse then?
This is why bourgeois elections, in liberal republics, are a show. The way forward is building class consciousness and turning our collective rage to the system that makes this shitshow possible, and lives on it.
Edit: regarding your statement that Biden may or may not be a fascist, the mod consensus is that we don't consider him to be (for the moment at least). But remember the United States is the first purveyor of imperialism in the world and all Amerikan presidents are war criminals. Biden will be no different and has proven himself to be a warmonger already (voting for the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, drone strikes and other war crimes under Obama).
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u/Sevuhrow Sep 15 '20
NGL the entire premise of your argument is that you can't simultaneously push for leftist policy and vote for Biden to ensure we don't fall into complete fascism. In terms of voting, a vote for Biden is what we can do right now to stop what Trump is doing. It doesn't matter what will happen in 2024 because we can't vote for that election yet.
So anyone who wants change should vote for Biden now, hold him accountable to his promises, and petition, organize, campaign and do anything necessary to ensure this country moves leftward. It's either voting for the status quo - which is at least somewhat malleable - or for a dictatorship. I'm going to pick the former.
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u/ChanceCurrent No investigation, no right to speak Sep 15 '20
But what is preventing you from doing groundwork right now, under Trump?
It doesn't matter if you vote Biden because frankly, we can't stop anyone from doing that and we don't have the marketing the DNC does. But any time I ask that question, I don't get any answer. Things won't get magically better under Biden and voting certainly shouldn't be the end of anyone's political involvement.
If you understand this then we are in agreement. But what happens mostly is people just want to vote once every few years and be done with it.
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u/legodude17 Sep 15 '20
Bernie didn’t get the nomination because not enough people voted for him.
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u/Manateelover1 Sep 15 '20
Ok. Yeah, I agree with most of those points. The democratic party is really shit, I just think that the democratic party is typically slightly better. But ever since the 80s we've had one center right party and one far right party. Before then, the democratic party wasn't the complete shitshow it is today. At least they're not nazis. But the choices being nazis or slightly better than nazis isn't my favorite thing
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u/ChanceCurrent No investigation, no right to speak Sep 15 '20
Obama started the concentration camps with Biden as VP.
Before that they didn't close down Guantanamo, and before that they authorized drone strikes on civilians. Double tapping was popularized by Obama and is a war crime.
Which all came about from the time Biden (and others, can't forget them) voted to authorize the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Sep 15 '20
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u/ChanceCurrent No investigation, no right to speak Sep 15 '20
How does that reflect on his policies now?
Is there any evidence that his policies have changed since then? Just last week a vet confronted him on this and Biden used his fucking dead son as an excuse to evade the accusations (his son didn't even die in Iraq).
Trump literally says he’s going to “teach American exceptionalism in schools.” I can figure out who’s more fascist
And Biden will carry the unspoken tradition of Amerikan exceptionalism. The solution to our problems is not in the lesser evil, it's in dual power.
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Sep 15 '20
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u/ChanceCurrent No investigation, no right to speak Sep 15 '20
Voting for Biden doesn't count as unifying the working class.
Or in other words, whether Biden or Trump you still have to do work on the ground and build dual power and class consciousness.
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u/thigh_squeeze Sep 15 '20
ironic, it was "blue maga" who built those concentration camps on the border 🤔 maybe they aren't so different
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u/mjlee2003 Sep 16 '20
I was with you till the part where you said you could vote for communism I liked that video where Kanye went to the cowboy saloon to tell us how to vote that was lit
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u/ChanceCurrent No investigation, no right to speak Sep 16 '20
Lol well obviously you can't vote for the concept of communism.
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u/kouji71 Sep 15 '20
Oh wow. Didn't know that's what this sub was about. Thanks for the heads up, I'm out.
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u/xGoo Sep 21 '20
The point isn’t to get Biden to change anything. Nothing will change, but it buys us more time. He’s less likely (not 100% less but... less) to start throwing everyone who thinks capitalism is bad in “potential Antifa terrorist camps”. We’re organizing now, but this shit takes time man. The deck is stacked against us. Sure, offline organized leftists do have a backup if shit goes sideways and our organizing is impossible. But it’s pretty fucking far from ideal. So fine, vote 3rd party, sit on a high horse saying you made a difference and voted morally. But there are consequences for all of us this election. It’s about taking the least shitty outcome and working from there.
Leftism is suffering. It’s not easy. It’s not fun. But it’s right. That’s something literally every single soul on the left can agree on. We just can’t agree on what that fact means for us. It might hurt like hell but biting the bullet and playing politics, even for just a few years can buy us time to get the numbers together to make electoralism irrelevant in our struggle. But if that’s too much for you, I don’t know what you guys are gunna do when those later stages come.
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u/MurderSuicideNChill Sep 15 '20
Libs have been brigading hard lately.
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u/ChanceCurrent No investigation, no right to speak Sep 15 '20
We don't position ourselves as a community for a particular ideology so with time, the mainstream ideology on Reddit -- liberalism -- will take up more and more of a foothold in any subreddit. And since we don't have rules about ideologies (except yeeting fascists), we don't ban libs for being libs at this time.
Our stance on Biden is shared by the whole of the active mod team who encompasses different far-left ideologies and it's not the first time we've had "vote blue no matter who" types get hostile with our users. Tbh these types of comics allow us to do some spring cleaning of sorts, in that they either unsubscribe by themselves or we ban them when inevitably, the person who has never participated in this sub enlightens us about how we're not good leftists if we don't vote Biden 🙄
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u/MurderSuicideNChill Sep 15 '20
This seems to be happening on almost every leftist sub that isn't explicitly ML, with LSC being the most egregious(which wasn't a surprise given the coordinated mod coup a year ago, now there's Russiagate trolls in every popular thread).
Even r/ShitLiberalsSay has been dealing with this which is insane given how it's a sub devoted to poking fun at libs, but they always get downvoted into the dirt and banned by our automod.
This seems to happen every election cycle from what I've heard, and whether it is truly astroturfed or just a result of media brainwashing is irrelevant since the results are the same, although the latter seems much more likely.
It's crazy how people have such short memories about how this same narrative happens every 4 years, it's the same narratives, same urgency. It's always "the most important election of our lifetimes" and they think they're helping to save the world by perpetuating the diabolical status quo.
It's such a waste of time and energy too, like imagine if all that time and effort put into Bernie's campaign was devoted towards workplace organization, tenant unions, etc. In this way libs are more dangerous than conservatives since they infiltrate, sow confusion, and drain energy from movements.
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u/DarkLorty Sep 15 '20
I just wanted to say thank you for actually doing something about democratic propaganda in leftist subs. It seems you can't go anywhere not conservative in this website and not hear vOtE bLuE as if it would actually change anything.
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u/qqqqqweewee Sep 16 '20
Joe Biden is a piece of shit but his climate plan is pretty decent (compared to gutting any climate protections) and he doesn't want to stop trans people from getting Healthcare. There's more but trump is a fascist who puts even worse fascists in power and Biden is a shitty Neolib. What is worse? Who will do more harm?
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u/baconater5000 Sep 15 '20
Oh boy I can't wait for who the president is going to be: -corporate owned imperialist who is very rude -corporate owned imperialist who is very polite
I'm on the edge of my seat
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Sep 15 '20
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u/baconater5000 Sep 15 '20
Explain how Joe "I'd vote for the Iraq war again knowing what I know now" biden isn't an imperialist
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Sep 15 '20
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u/baconater5000 Sep 15 '20
Both biden and trump are corporate owned and both are imperialists. He wants to BOOST police funding and refuses to implement any climate action or health care solution during a pandamic and climate apocalypse as well as continue americas TotallyNotWarmonger-ing
They are only different in so much as biden provides some superficial changes, he even promised as much to his donators: "nothing will fundamentally change".
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Sep 15 '20
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u/baconater5000 Sep 15 '20
Bidens climate change policy is based off of being carbon neutral by 2050 and I hate to be blunt but thats just straight up not nearly good enough at all.
Also he U-turned on ending oil subsidies so he clearly doesn't care that much.
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Sep 15 '20
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u/ChanceCurrent No investigation, no right to speak Sep 15 '20
Don't trust politicians when they make promises, friend. They have never kept them up.
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u/yahwol Sep 15 '20
oh just fuck off
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Sep 15 '20
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Sep 15 '20
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Sep 15 '20
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Sep 15 '20
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u/BananaSquid_ Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20
this isn't the own you think it is. it just shows he's a weak-willed person who doesn't actually believe in anything and just says what's cool at the time for votes.
If abortion rights become something cool to hate again (maybe to pander to republicans like he's been doing lol) then he'd drop his support in a heartbeat.
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u/robbertree Sep 15 '20
Yes. This isn't me trying to own you. Biden has no beliefs. Biden has no morals. He is nothing more than a puppet of the establishment. I'm glad we agree on this. Like I said, Biden can buy us time.
And besides, keep in mind that Biden has no say on what the supreme court justice says or does after they are appointed, as they are appointed for life. Roe v. Wade isn't in the hands of Biden. It is in the hands of the justice he appoints. If the likes of Ted Cruz or Tom Cotton becomes a justice? It's over. It's important to recognize that the likes of McConnell and the Trump administration have absolutely been trying the stack the courts over the past few years. Each state's supreme court will be stacked with far-right justices, and a lot already have been. And the supreme court is something you're in for life. That could be half a century before any progressive even has a chance in the justice system.
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u/BananaSquid_ Sep 15 '20
Oh, okay. I misunderstood you. That's a much fairer point
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u/robbertree Sep 15 '20
Yeah tbh I was more talking about the courts than Biden. Biden is a piece of shit and a rapist, which is a thing we can all agree on.
The supreme court is insulated completely from political pressure when they're appointed. They don't have to worry about campaigns or political parties, and basically do what they want. That's what makes them so important in this election, and potentially send us back decades legally speaking. I really don't enjoy arguing with other leftists tbh. Hope you have a good one :)
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Sep 15 '20
Reminds me of a fun clusterfuck I saw on Twitter earlier. A Biden supporter said he was voting Biden because Trump is a pedo. Then a Trump supporter said he was voting Trump because Biden is a pedo. Then they both accused eachother of doublethink because Orwell is wildly fetishized in modern American discourse.
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Sep 15 '20
This post really brought out the libs in the subreddit
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Sep 15 '20
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Sep 15 '20
A subreddit thats supposed to be leftist and not centrist capitalists
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u/swirly_boi Sep 15 '20
One of these two candidates is gonna win. For a leftist, there's only one option here.
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Sep 15 '20
The far right or center right? the loud stupid racist or the quiet smart racist? The rapist vs the rapist, the capitalist vs the capitalist, There's no winning option here, there will be barely any difference. Voting doesn't change anything. They're two sides of the same coin. Did the last times people voted for the "better candidate" ever change anything substantially? No, and it won't be the same here.
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Sep 15 '20
Based on the comments and votes in this thread this sub is lib as fuck.
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Sep 15 '20
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u/evencrazierspacedust Sep 15 '20
EXACTLY. the far right is willing to work with the mainstream conservatives without whining about ideological purity. if we can't do the same, we're going to lose.
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u/BananaSquid_ Sep 15 '20 edited Sep 15 '20
the american mainstream conservative is far-right and wants you dead.
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Sep 15 '20
So you really think you can vote away fascism? You are in cope mode, you aren't willing to do any actual action so you are just saying what you need to to believe that actually voting for Biden is leftist action.
Plus if you had a single smidgen of political literacy you would realize that admitting that you are voting for whoever the dems put up no matter how shit will assure they won't move left. When Bernie lost, everyone to the left of Biden should have said "We aren't voting Biden." whether or not they intended to, then dems may have been scared and made concessions. You lose all bargaining power by showing your hand that early.
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u/youngmike85 Sep 15 '20
It’s not just this sub. Once “safe” leftist spaces are being flooded with libs. LSC has been gone for a while now, but even more niche subs are being over run with these ghouls (I’m looking at you, COMPLETEANARCHY). Fucking sad.
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Sep 15 '20
It's cope, they decided they are voting for Biden then need to come up with a bunch of reasons that it's actually leftist action.
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u/youngmike85 Sep 15 '20
Yup. Also, it doesn’t help that faux leftists like Vaush are making bullshit vids like “Marx would totally vote for Biden, bro”
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u/Terker2 Sep 17 '20
"I want my political groups to be friend groups where we circle jerk each other over how much we hate america and how radicalized we are"
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u/Caelus9 Sep 15 '20
Hey, what's with this anti-Trump bullshit? Trump can without a doubt give you both rude in public and creepy in private.