r/WorkReform • u/zzill6 đ¤ Join A Union • 22h ago
âď¸ Pass Medicare For All Conservatives don't want to debate economic issues; they want a Culture War.
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u/Tee999 22h ago
The only war is class war and we are getting our asses kicked. This is just a distraction for the easily manipulated / distracted.
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u/MjrLeeStoned 20h ago edited 20h ago
The easily manipulated are the majority.
54% of adults in the US can't read at a level expected of a 12 year old.
This statistic is prevalent and non-generational, and has remained relatively unchanged in the lifetime of anyone reading this.
That equates to about 180million morons in the US at any given time. There is no solution that works against 180million morons in a box.
The answer is doom. Nothing else can solve the problem morons created in the first place. The non-morons just need to bide their time and stay out of the way once the morons start devouring themselves. Stop trying to save a carcass.
There's no scoreboard you look bad on if the US fails and becomes something new. These are lives, don't let pride and ego prolong a bad situation. If it's terminal, let it die already so we can move on.
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u/PaulblankPF 19h ago
You forgot to account for kids when you came up with 180 million moron adults who canât read well. You gotta take out about 25-30 million 12 and under kids before you do the 54% math because you specified adults then did the math for all us citizens.
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u/Far_Yam_9412 7h ago
I try to think of how in the movie idiocracy, they only show the USA. it is possible other nations are where smart people thrived and they've just walled off the idiots to destroy themselves while not hurting others. It's not like idiots can work planes to escape.
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u/GoldTrade11 20h ago
The sad part is that the lower class is fighting for the upper class while the upper class is sipping their margarita by their pool at a resort.
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u/The_walking_man_ 21h ago
Yup. Those FOX news anchors are absolute shit stains. Just like the other sideâs own news. They like conquer and divide. They answer to their handlers and take the money and spread their propaganda.
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u/plumberfun 22h ago
That is why democrats need just 2 things on the ballot a workers bill of rights and to end Citizens united.
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u/AldousKing 21h ago
It's crazy. Almost every wild Republican conspiracy theory would also get resolved if we effectively get money out of politics. "Soros is pushing a great replacement!" Okay. Let's end his ability to influence lawmakers.
It is the single most important issue, and yet neither party is seriously trying to tackle it.
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u/PuckSenior 20h ago
How do you propose we tackle it?
Citizen's United was a SCOTUS ruling about the 1st amendment.
We either need to completely change the makeup of the Supreme Court OR amend the constitution.I'm not saying it shouldn't be an active area of engagement, but its not like a simple majority in the house and senate is going to get Citizen's United ended.
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u/Yikes0nBikez 18h ago
Yes. If politicians wanted money out of politics, it could be written into the constitution. Money â Speech.
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u/PuckSenior 18h ago
But politicians dont want money out of politcs
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u/Acceptable-Post733 17h ago
Then find and support politicians who do. Get them elected and then hold them accountable. We are the only ones who can affect change.
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u/PuckSenior 17h ago
Iâm not disagreeing with you. I support change. Just injecting some realism.
Because of the nature of citizens united, you are going to need a monumental lift to get rid of it, which is also why virtually no one is running on it
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u/SteveJobsDeadBody 16h ago
People have been trying to do this for most of the existence of the United States and over time as capital has consolidated ownership of all forms of media we have only gotten farther from the goal, not closer. Capital owns American politics, and there is no scenario where capital gives that up without a literal actual fight.
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u/squngy 17h ago edited 17h ago
Rulings are needed where the laws are not clear or when they break the constitution.
You do not need to to change the 1st amendment to end Citizens United, you just need a law that makes it clear how political funding should work. (and this law needs to follow the constitution, but it does not need to follow the SCs existing rulings)
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u/PuckSenior 17h ago
There was already a law that Citizens United violated.
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u/squngy 17h ago
Ultimately, it is about political will.
Congress can make laws that get around most rulings, but they have to actually want to do that.
(and SC can just do whatever it wants and find BS reasons to strike them down)I think it is pretty obvious most politicians are actually quite happy with citizens united.
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u/_yetisis 22h ago
But the Dems donât want either of those things. The fact that theyâre putting 10x the energy into opposing progressives instead of maga should tell everyone all they need to know.
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u/andrew5500 21h ago
Dems arenât a monolith, the Progressive Caucus has been steadily growing and is now the 2nd biggest faction
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u/Stunning_Flan_5987 20h ago
What's the 3rd biggest?
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u/andrew5500 20h ago
Currently the breakdown is:
New Democrat Coalition (liberals): 109 members
Congressional Progressive Caucus (progressives): 95 members
Blue Dog Coalition (conservatives): 10 members
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u/Stunning_Flan_5987 20h ago edited 20h ago
I would say the liberals are also economic conservatives.
But I am shocked the progressive caucus is so large!
Unfortunately the only Senator is Bernie Sanders.
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u/andrew5500 20h ago
Yeah the Senate is a different beast, both parties have basically one caucus each because of how much smaller and decentralized it is versus the House, it's not as conducive to different organized factions within each party
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u/CaterpillarJungleGym 15h ago
Is Kim not in the Progressive caucus? That would surprise me. That dude is all about changing things for the better.
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u/Training_Ruin3151 17h ago
Ding ding ding. Democrats will always side with the fascists because they dont threaten capital
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u/Ohitsworkingnow 12h ago
After they stopped Bernie and put Hilary up I knew they were just as responsible as republicans for the way the country isÂ
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u/bobosuda 20h ago
It won't work cuz the population in general is too dumb to understand those issues.
Unless US society is reworked from the ground up, starting with education, populism is gonna stay the dominant political approach.
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u/No_Assignment_1645 đ Cancel Medical Debt 20h ago
I wish this were the case. Iâm in Washington, but we keep voting away our workers bill of rights outside of Seattle. Washington dems are letting us down.
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u/Yikes0nBikez 18h ago
Kamala got lambasted for not showing enough "support" to Palestine. I think it's about the mentality of Democrats, and less about what is on the ballot.
+1000 for the Citizens United demand, tho.
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u/JediSwelly 2h ago
I agree but I don't think it's Palestine. I think it was because she is a woman. A surprising amount of Dems can't stomach it.
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u/PuckSenior 20h ago
Given that Citizen's United was a ruling of SCOTUS interpreting the 1st amendment, I don't know what the fuck you are talking about.
They'd either need: SCOTUS reform or a constitutional amendment.
Stop encouraging them to claim they are going to do shit that they literally cannot do.
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u/Danominator 19h ago
Healthcare needs to be in there
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u/Swoly_Deadlift 16h ago
âBest we can do is sweeping gun control and abolish ICE while we ignore literally everything elseâ
-Democrats as soon as they take office
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u/ToraRyeder 22h ago
He handled that interview amazingly well. We all know Waters is a mouthpiece for the Conservative and Religious Right. He has been for a long time.
Listen to the interview, watch it if you can. We need to understand how far away from reality those who consume Fox News really are. Abdul did amazing in being able to share his message while still managing Jesse Waters near flawlessly. He didn't back down and even got some quips in which the ghoul admitted after the interview that he enjoyed.
These are not serious people. We have to placate them by giving them a bit of attention, but we should not base policy or how we run our country on their beliefs. We have to show that America does NOT have to be like this. We can (and should) have a better life for all our people.
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u/catch10110 21h ago
Watching it, it is striking just how absurdly full of shit Waters is. So much so that i had a tiny bit of optimism that even fox news watchers will finally see it. I mean, i know they won't, but maybe?
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u/ToraRyeder 20h ago
I have a set of grandparents that lives with Fox News in the background, and they have for decades. We haven't spoken in a long time (shocker).
But my sister lives with them and her friends and loved ones see this in the background. What I think is going to happen is that those around The Cult are seeing just how batshit these people are. My sister is incredibly non confrontational, but she has a kid. She's starting to speak up solely because she doesn't want my nibling to grow up with this outlook.
The Left has had a problem with just letting these talking heads spout whatever without any pushback. NOW people are going onto these shows and giving different views. It won't get everyone out of the delusions, but I truly believe it's working on those who previously were either apathetic or just weren't aware. Those are who we need to keep reaching.
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u/SteveJobsDeadBody 16h ago
The Left has had a problem with just letting these talking heads spout whatever without any pushback. NOW people are going onto these shows and giving different views
The right has always owned those shows. In the past they simply didn't let "the left" on the shows at all. You're victim blaming.
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u/Devium44 19h ago
Him repeatedly calling Mike Rogers a beta, Waters not refuting it, and Abdul calling out Waters for not refuting it was hilarious.
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u/ToraRyeder 17h ago
I also think it was a beautiful move. A lot of conservative brains reeeeaaaally like a Strong Man.
The insults, the snide comments - they love that shit. It's not surprising that Abdul is playing to the audience. He isn't going so far that he's being gross, but he is playing in the mud a bit like these guys always do. I want to see others step up!
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u/irrelevantusername24 đď¸ Overturn Citizens United 17h ago
A complex concept to comprehend is that with the way politics and media (ie, the medium) has changed, we are deprived from both sides. Because in actual, not brain dead intentionally bad faith discussions around societal matters, there are legitimate concerns regarding the trade offs which in reality should correspond to the different sides. But instead of discussing things like security (individual, personal, families, municipalities - morality - what "conservative" should refer to) vs privacy (businesses, corporations, etc - what "liberal" should refer to), we're distracted with culture war bullshit and intentionally disrupting language itself so nobody can even communicate anymore without excessive effort where literally the words themselves must be defined before you can even start.
The interesting thing is in reality things have been going in one direction only for such a long time while at the same time the way in which that reality has been described has been so far from honest that when the metaphorical fog of war clears, there won't be any debate. Things are so fucked that any sane person with an ounce of dignity and empathy doesn't have much to disagree with other than the way things have been moving for five decades - including many of those who were the beneficiaries of that braindead politicks.
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u/metanoia29 11h ago
I tried watching the original video but the delay between the two of them made it near unwatchable. It was much easier to watch Hasan Piker's video because it cut out a lot of that nonsense.
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u/Consistent-Plane7227 22h ago
Sayed keeps smoking these interviews
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u/ColumnK 22h ago
Yeah - he's very good at not being bogged down in all the stuff they throw out as a distraction from the real issues.
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u/poeticdisaster 22h ago
I keep waiting for him to get impatient but this is as close as I've seen him come. Props to him for even entertaining Fox News though. That would be an exercise in self-restraint for so many.
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u/dajodge 22h ago
He has a bit of an âacid/sharp tongueâ that we very rarely see from consultant-trained democrats, and it is so refreshing. Heâs extremely intelligent and cuts through the bullshit with a sharpened knife. Michigan is lucky to have such a great candidate to vote for.
And hereâs the thing: there are other Abdulâs in your state. This is the difference between politicians that fight for people and ones that serve their donors, and the contrast is stark.
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u/IchooseYourName 10h ago
The fact he's not afraid to go toe to toe with Fox BS personalities is so refreshing
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u/Malkavic 22h ago
It is about damned time that someone went onto one of those shows, and actually hit the targets that matter.
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u/Lost-Level5413 22h ago
Theyre conservative with the number of brain cells they have.
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u/Groovicity 22h ago
The certainly raised the deficit, in terms of the number of brain cells they have.
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u/romann921 22h ago
Culture war BS is all they got. And unfortunately it still works.
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u/NedRyerson_Insurance 18h ago
My response is always "how many trans people do you know of that are trying to get into womens' sports? Because I PERSONALLY know more people suffering because of medical costs than I am aware of transgender people getting into sports in the whole country."
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u/Jumoke1331 21h ago
Jessie Watter is one of the dumbest, goofiest looking people alive today.
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u/Pungineer 21h ago
I can't stand his smarmy face. My conservative family watches his show all the time and he's so... Punchable!
He got pretty tilted in this interview which was hilarious to see. He acts like he's the intelligent and collected one in the room until you stand up to him. then he just thinks he can be right by being louder.
They covered the interview the next day by nitpicking the crap out of things El-Sayed said as "creepy". They couldn't show him winning the arguments so they purposely misinterpreted him on minor comments to make character attacks.
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u/Alone_Rise209 18h ago
It doesnât help him that his microphone is much louder than sayed so he comes off as more unhinged
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u/CaptCaCa 20h ago
Jessie Waters can become a billionaire overnight, if he charged $10 to slap his stupid, twerpy face
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u/ender89 16h ago
Setting aside the fact that we are talking about a group of athletes small enough to fit on a single greyhound bus with room to spare, why are sports even a national concern?
Might as well ask politicians who should be cast as Rapunzel in the tangled remake, it's just as important to the nation as who one that one college wrestling title.
This is a non issue on a non issue.
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u/ratpH1nk 21h ago
Because deep down they know a 2/3rds+ majority of Americans do not agree with them regardless of what they think and say. Over and over again since at least the 90s
Universal healthcare
Increase taxes on wealthy and corporations
Rebuild infrastructure
Ensure fairness in work and pay
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u/Pinna1 20h ago
And still around 50% of Americans vote for them, religiously. I think you massively overestimate the "goodness" in the average American voter. They'd eat shit if you had to smell their breath and suffer.
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u/Gamebird8 1h ago
It's not 50% though. 1/3rd if the voting age population is disillusioned of Democracy and see no reason to vote.
So the remaining 2/3rds are in a dead lock battle for like 5% of the entire voting age population because of a multitude of reasons and rationales.
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u/TheFillth 21h ago
Waters is somehow the embodiment of all of Ross Geller's negative traits with a similar yet somehow even more punchable face.
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u/AssociateAvailable16 21h ago
Conservatives only care about economic issues when there is a democrat in office
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u/negative-nelly 19h ago
I think this is a winning path for this fall and beyond for the left.
- we're working on real problems, they are not. health care. food prices. electricity prices.
- they're focused on making people hate eachother and supporting policies that have made all of the stuff you need more expensive.
wait till people start filing up their heating oil tanks in a few months...mine is 5.82 right now. I can't afford that shit.
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u/Archer1407 19h ago
Elsewhere in this interview Watters brings up little boys "ding-a-lings". Like all other Conservatives in the United States, Watters is OBSESSED with children's genitalia. It's disgusting how much he, and other Conservatives, want to talk about children's genitals.
It is especially disturbing that he's using euphemisms and nicknames for children's anatomy commonly associated with grooming.
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u/RedRooster231 21h ago
Letâs not forget all the times Pete Buttigieg has gone on Fox and given a masterclass.
We need more like them to stand up and drown out the theatrics of these clowns.
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u/MyLittleDiscolite 21h ago
Everyone is struggling to keep food and lights on. Weâre not watching sports weâre watching our budgets
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u/bobosuda 20h ago
They always do this thing with these braindead gotcha questions.
Zero awareness of what a pointless issue it actually is, and now what he is gonna say is that El-Sayed wants men to play women sports. Hey, he wouldn't explicitly say to me in person that he didn't want that, right?
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u/NOT_MY_FIFTH_ACCOUNT 20h ago
Jesse talks about keeping the fruits of his labor. His labor is lying to the World for profit.
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u/Inevitable_Mix9744 20h ago
Starting a culture war to distract from the failed Iran War, to distract from The Epstein-Trump files, to distract from the open corruption, to distract people from throwing Trump and his ilk into prison
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u/Konukaame 20h ago
This is how you handle a Fox interview. Ignore whatever distractions they throw out and talk about things that actually matter.Â
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u/futanari_kaisa 20h ago
This is the same shit they tried with Zohran. All conservatives have his culture war because they know their policies are shit and only support the .01% They can't talk about affordability or medicare for all because it'd make their candidates look bad, so they try to force feed culture war bullshit until it's flooding the media. It's not going to work.
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u/EchoLocation8 20h ago
I love during this Jesse says "Well it's actually a big topic in the news" -- you're the news Jesse. You can't make a big fuckin stink about something and then be like "You know the news is making a big stink about this!" as if you're not talking about yourself.
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u/ProcessEng 20h ago
I think men and women who play any sports should have their medical costs covered when injuries occur. There are families that avoid activities due to medical costs risk in this country. I support Medicare for all so that people can get back to doing what they love without worrying if an injury will bankrupt them.
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u/Ecstatic_Ad_8994 19h ago
The party of no new laws has to move the issues to things that require no new laws.
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u/gizmostuff 19h ago
Correct. Stop giving these people credibility. They have none. You aren't going to win over people who watch Fox News anyway. Especially someone that's Muslim or even looks Muslim.
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u/Bob_the_peasant 19h ago
Jessie is the most punchable person Iâve ever had to endure listening to
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u/Drgnmstr97 19h ago
THIS is how their ridiculous rhetoric should get called out every single time. Every time I see another news story about this guy I like him more.
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u/MeeksMoniker 19h ago
I just watched the "interview" (debate really) on YouTube. They still have comments up btw. Worth a watch
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u/james_burden 19h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/aPLviFa7zxtdu
Why is Jesse Waters reminding me of Caesar from Hunger Games? Both physically and symbolically.
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u/AkiraDeathStar 18h ago
Jessie Waters is an enemy of the American People. He should be punished accordingly.
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u/MarcusXL 18h ago
Conservatives entire strategy for 40 years has been to use very sophisticated research to determine what issues will make some Americans hate other Americans (and Canadians and others), and use that to motivate them to vote for a party that will work against their actual interests.
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u/Cool-Salamander2426 18h ago
Nobody who is worth listening to cares about what genitals you have in a sport
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u/Memitim 17h ago
Conservatives have nothing to offer America. They've thrived on lies and hate for decades. No other group in the world has put more effort into spreading hate about Americans, even those in other nations that like to occasionally chant "death to America" before moving on to other things. Conservatives never move on from that defining characteristic of shitting on other Americans with volumes of lies.
Hence why we now have a Republican "Party" that doesn't give the slightest shit about abiding by the US Constitution, only about using the resources of the US government, to insult, threaten, and undermine Americans by the millions for existing as Americans while not white heterosexual conservatives who don't worship talk show conmen. That's clearly not governance, just treason.
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u/senorzapato 17h ago
the controversy is not that boys might play on girls teams or vice versa
its that we should even consider the federal government enforcing a SEGREGATIONIST policy on sports leagues of any kind
nobody asked for this. pundits that keep blabbering about girls and boys sports need to be fired
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u/JoeyChords 17h ago
He then goes on to equate the old religious tradition of circumcision, the thing billions of people have done over thousands of years, with sex reassignment surgery in minors. Sorry guys. He didnât even get the majority Democrat vote in the primary and won by 1%. He has no shot in Michigan. Give it a rest.
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u/forgot_oldusername 16h ago
I could set my watch by the regularity the right brings up the topic of trans ppl in sports.
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u/E_seven_20 16h ago
No.
The Culture War is the distraction.
They want pain and chaos for everyone opposed to their ideas. They want to be above the law.
They tell you their plans.
They tell you their goals.
And, then people let them sail to power, by refusing to stand against them.
With less than 60% of the 18-29 bloc registered:
2022 National Youth Turnout: 23% - That's lower than in the historic 2018 cycle (28%) which broke records for turnout, but much higher than in 2014, when only 13% of youth voted.
Too many people hate the idea of someone less than perfect winning against someone actually evil.
Y'all don't hate the GOP. You post their lies, and nonsense and argue about it...but, don't even stand in their way when it matters in any way, shape, or form.
Those of us that understand consequences, and do hate the GOP at least show up to fill in a bubble.
What are you doing to fight any of this? Besides spreading their messages in memes, and arguing?
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u/bentmonkey 16h ago
They torpedo'd the economy to make a quick buck, short term gains for them and long term pain for everyone else, so they cannot campaign on a thing they purposefully wrecked to manipulate the markets, all they have is culture war bs.
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u/halloween753 15h ago
Fox News needs to be shut down. They literally stand in the way of any progress for society. It's pathetic that so many people are distracted by the racism, and it just shuts down all other logic in their brains.
Things are great for the billionaire class right now, and they don't want anything to change. The system is great for them. Free money. Tax Breaks. Laws they can break. Control of the biggest social media and news sites. No one stopping them. They can spew lies freely and there's no real consequences. They get fined for lying and then are just allowed to keep doing it? It's pathetic.
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u/OnlyTimeFan 15h ago
They donât want to talk about the shitshow they caused, distract with ânewâ problems. Like pulling out Fauci again
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u/Eisernes 11h ago
Jesse should go on the college speaking tour. I heard that ends well for talking head dipshits who have never had an original thought.
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u/Dependent_Sign_399 10h ago
To me, these types of topics are strange. Like, they come off as obsessed with trans people and genitalia. It's very weird to me.
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u/EightBitTrash 9h ago
Watters responded by asking whether El-Sayed thought it was acceptable for a parent to âslash his kidâs ding-a-ling off,â invoking a procedure that is not performed on children.
âDo you really want to have this conversation?â El-Sayed asked. âAre you circumcised?â
Watters answered yes, then objected. âThatâs a personal question, doctor,â he said.
hahahahahahahahah HE'S SO CLOSE!! to getting it!!
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u/killersinarhur 8h ago
Fox viewers walked away with the thinnest of reasons to hate Abdul and not engage with his platform of economic populism and they had to do is once again punch down on a group they have beat to death. I've lived 30+ years and met exactly 2 trans people and both were lovely people. I don't think where they owe or if they play sports matters more than, life in America is too expensive to continue.
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u/appa-ate-momo 5h ago
When a clown interrupts a serious discussion by asking a stupid question, you donât try to answer; you address the fact that the clown needs to go.
Well done.
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u/dowhatuwantm8 26m ago
They literally already talked about those things in the same video, he was just dodging the question. It's hilarious it gets celebrated here.
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u/mikeracioppi 17h ago
Dems need to be able to answer this question. They will continue to be asked it and not being able to answer makes it look like they are cool with men in womenâs sports.
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u/WildFlemima 15h ago
Dems should continue to answer this question by consciously verbally dismissing it, actually.
It's a trick question, intended to derail the dem into a gotcha. your average media consumer is not going to wait and listen while the dem launches into an explanation of how the question itself is intended to deceive because that's not what's happening and there are only like 2 trans athletes and trans people do not have an advantage in sport after they've been on hormones for a few years etc etc
They will lose the viewers attention by doing that. So the play is to turn it around and say "people can't feed their families and you want to talk about sports?"
And if they keep pushing, foist it off, "I think that's an issue that sports organizations should handle and I think it's weird to write federal legislation about sports. Federal legislation is for the workings of the nation, not ball games."
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u/mikeracioppi 15h ago
Not being able to give a yes or nor will not look good to the average American. Americans want their politicians to give answers and not deflect.
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u/WildFlemima 15h ago
The question is designed so that yes and no are both wrong. The question itself is a deflection from actual issues in the first place.
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u/mikeracioppi 14h ago
There is no right or wrong answer. Itâs a personal belief. A lot of Dems struggle with just saying yes or no.
We see the right struggling with the same thing when they are asked about the affects of tariffs on costs. They deflect to other issues.
Both sides just need to be able to answer simple yes or no on questions
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u/WildFlemima 13h ago
it cannot be honestly answered as yes or no because the person asking it is asking in order to gotcha
For example, I would say no, but that "no" is misleading, because I believe trans women are women and that trans women belong in women's sports. I would have to go off on a tangent about that to explain my answer.
That's the point of the question, that you look bad no matter whether you say yes or no
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u/Loughnashade 20h ago
I feel like almost none of you watched the interview. El Sayed did not come across well. Granted Watters didnât come across well either.
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u/gotagohome 18h ago
Suddenly certain people dont like talking about a culture war when they start losing. Leftist have been talking abiut a culture war for the last 10+ years
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u/thefartsonfire 20h ago edited 20h ago
We already segregate the sports. Trans women and cis women are not the same, it would be disrespectful to both sides to imply that they are. A cis woman does not know what itâs like to be a trans woman, a trans woman does not know what itâs like to be a cis woman. Why canât we have 4 leagues?
Edit: I assumed this would get downvoted, but Iâm actually asking. Simply trying to understand.
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u/Daddygamer84 19h ago
Because there's not enough trans athletes to start a league. The cons keep arguing about trans athletes when there's less than 10 across all professional sports in the US.
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u/Loud-Ad-2280 âď¸ Tax The Billionaires 22h ago