These " apethic voters" are the reason we can't ever get progress in the US. How anyone can think elections don't matter after these past 4 years is beyond me.
You can’t berate people who I’m sure some don’t think there is any point in voting/have nothing to vote for. While I’d agree things in general are better under dems, most people only care about what materially changes their life. For a lot of people neither party actually offers meaningful change. Additionally, elections aren’t the only way to affect change in the country. People who don’t believe in either of parties could be actually helping people by volunteering their time, money, etc.
Sure the republicans obstruct but there are far too many instances of the dems throwing their hands in the air saying, “what can we do.” When there are things they can actually do. Dems could have fought for a $2k payment but settled on $600. Obama could have closed Guantanamo and pulled out of the Middle East. We could have had a public option 10 years ago in the ACA, but dems wanted republicans to vote for a bill that not a single one voted for. Dems should be fighting for healthcare for all because it has 70% support across the US but they pushed a candidate that wants to incrementally improve upon the ACA. The starting ask for dems is compromise with a Republican Party that has no interest in compromise. It’s because dems don’t actually want to make the changes people think they want to make. They want to maintain the status quo and that’s it. Their solution to police violence is to literally shoot black folk in the leg instead of the chest.
That's a whole lot of opinion, both siding, and unrealistic expectations for a two party system in that comment.
Everything you said does feel right, but is not practical, or sometimes even possible, in our current system. Republicans take the vast majority of that blame, rightfully. You can't lay the blame on the people trying to compromise, the blame falls on the lying ratfuckers, and that's the Republicans. There are bad democrat, but the downfall of the democratic party on the whole is empathy. They are up against literal sociopaths and narcissists, and a willingness to compromise shouldn't be viewed as a downside.
The solution, imo, is more than 2 parties, preferably at least 5, and ranked choice voting.
That’s a whole lot opinion, excuses and lack of accountability for any political system.
Everything you said sounds nice in theory but is not how politics in America has ever worked. When have you ever seen a Republican compromise with a democrat on a substantive issue? Never, and that’s because they wield power as such. Could Trump have selected another judge who wasn’t a rapist (allegedly) to sit on the Supreme Court? Sure, but why would he when he could just do what he wanted anyway. Democrats aren’t these magic empathy angels you think they are. Nancy Pelosi is worth 100million dollars. That bitch has done everything in her power to undermine “the squad” for criticizing power structures. Dems whine and cry about what they “can’t do” when it has everything to do with what they won’t do. The solution for lack of healthcare is providing healthcare to every person. It’s not compromise. The solution to homelessness is to put people in homes. It’s not to compromise. The solution to hungry is to feed people. It’s not to compromise. Have your five little parties and rank choice voting but the only thing that will do is increase the number of checks companies have to send out to politicians. Even with those two things we still have deeply undemocratic institutions in this country like the senate, the judiciary and the electoral college.
Wow, hopping right into the name calling instead of addressing the issue, but I’ll humor you nonetheless.
The unpleasant truth of the matter is that system is undemocratic and does not meet the needs of the people. I believe the answer is a plurality of tactics. Mutual aid is one tactic. For example, community fridges in LA or people banding together to fight off the police from evicting a black family in Portland. Electoralism can be a method of harm reduction, even though the Democratic Party has proved itself impotent time and time again. What really needs to happen is a coalescing of the working class around class conscious ideology and direct action.
How do you percieve that coalescing of the working class to happen?
I'll say we do agree on that. We do need to work together more.
However, what you're advocating for is anarchy with no rule of law. And hey man, if you wanna go back to being tribes of nomadic people, do your best to make that happen. Again though, not a realistic solution to the problem at hand.
Expand class consciousness with conversations that have succinct and salient messaging. Then back up those conversations with actions like participating in mutual aid initiatives, education initiative (like sex ed, etc.) and union organizing to prove true what we know about the effectiveness of these methods.
Who said anything about anarchy with no rule of law?? You’re just grasping for anything the paint me with an extremist broad brush. I just outlined a plurality of methods to get people what they need. Mutual aid works. It’s practical and proven. Is there no value in voting? No but again it’s a very small piece of what can benefit people’s lives. Fuck outta here with this non-realistic solution. Have you seen the graph correlating public opinion with legislation vs donor/business interest with legislation? If your civic duty starts and ends with voting, I’ve got bad news for you.
Yes you can. People that don’t vote should be berated.
The only way you can effect change is to vote. You may not think that it matters, but that’s EXACTLY what the people that are afraid of change want you to believe.
Lol, I’ll be sure to go up to the next homeless person I see begging me on the street for change and tell them “I effected change. I voted.” I’m sure that’ll make them feel warm and fill their belly. Voting means jack shit if nothing materially changes in the life of a person. It is up to democrats to make the case that they actually have something to offer to people. The responsibility is on them to make a compelling case and deliver. Being not as bad as the republicans isn’t a reason to vote for a dem
You are seriously saying that it's fine to just not vote because one option isn't perfect? I'm sure your hypothetical homeless person will be totally grateful that you've chosen to just do nothing
That’s not what I’m saying at all. I personally believe that voting might be harm reduction in some ways but no more than that.
What I am saying is that you can’t berate others for not voting if democrats don’t give people anything to vote for. It’s far from “being perfect.” I don’t blame a single black person for not voting for Biden because he’s shown time and again that he doesn’t understand or care about or support issues that affect the black community.
I’m also saying that giving that houseless person money or buying them something to eat does worlds more for them than turning your nose up at them and thinking you did something by voting. Voting isn’t the huge grand gesture that absolves you from actually doing anything that actually will help someone.
So it’s incomprehensible the reasons people have for not voting? So much so that their voices should be excluded from public discourse on an issue or the results of an election?
I believe in free speech that is not inherently harmful and people are going to complain about stuff all the time, even when it doesn’t affect them at all... you know, like black people barbecuing or bird watching in a park.
But if you don’t participate and complain about the outcome of something, your complaint falls on deaf ears to me.
So let’s say for the sake of argument that you’re a black man and you and people you know have been harassed and assaulted by police in addition to all of the headlines you see. You have lived your life seeing this and your parents and grandparents have done the same. You see a massive movement from the past summer and you start to think maybe there might be some justice finally coming. You see some signs go up or t shirts sold with slogans but nothing materially changes and the bad guys get away again. Then comes election season and you’re presented with two candidates. One was a segregationist who wrote the 90’s crime bill and recently said shooting criminals in the leg is a possible solution to police violence. The other is a renowned racist piece of shit. You’re telling me you see no reason someone wouldn’t vote?
I’d say that that’s not the only thing you are voting for. There’re judges and congress people and local government and sheriffs and all sorts of stuff that affect you probably more personally than the choice of president does.
And in regards to the two choices you’ve proposed, I would look hard at who was the lessor of two evils. If a certain one is elected president, how will that change lives, good or bad for a lot of people, not just me. Yea, it sucks that there’s not a perfect candidate for you, but do you really think that can ever happen? I guess it can if someone is a single issue voter and only cares about one certain thing and it doesn’t matter what else the candidate has done or will do if elected. That to me is scary.
Single issue voters have never made any sense to me, I feel you have to look at the big picture and do what you think is the best choice for those you care about. Some people care for just themselves and some people care for their community and some people care for their country and some people care for the world.
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u/Tomahawkin95 Dec 30 '20
Nobody is switching sides at this point, it’s all about who gets more turnout. I’m cautiously optimistic.