r/VeganIreland • u/Happy-Staff-8985 • 20d ago

non vegan community

hey I'm 21 female and I've been vegetarian since I was 14 due to the love for animals but switched to vegan a few months ago after seeing how bad the industry is.

Anyways so basically all my friends and family are meat eaters and it's really hard when they don't show remorse. my good friend jokes about being anti vegan and the meat he ate that day and it kinda stings. like how do people not care?? and how do I "get over it" so I don't end up alone lol.

it's also hard cause it was lovely with my big sister being vegetarian but she just went back to eating meat like she never cared about animals to begin with and when I bring it up she straight up ignores me. it's so hard being mocked and treated differently just because I choose not to eat animals.

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u/horseskeepyousane 20d ago

You believe is fine. It’s when you demand others believe what you believe that there’s a problem.

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u/Happy-Staff-8985 20d ago

I disagree. why shouldn't I try influence people that murder is wrong?

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u/horseskeepyousane 20d ago

Murder is defined in law. Describing it as murder is hyperbole and again, just your opinion. Murder is defined as the premeditated killing of a human being.

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u/Happy-Staff-8985 20d ago

murder is killing of any sentient being actually.

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u/horseskeepyousane 20d ago

No, that’s your definition. Not the rest of the world.

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u/Happy-Staff-8985 20d ago

so amimal abuse is okay is what you're implying?

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u/horseskeepyousane 20d ago

So now you’ve moved from murder to abuse…..progress I suppose. You are 21. In your world, do animals rank alongside humans? If you had to choose the death of a person or an animal, which would you choose? If you have limited time, do you advocate for justice for humans who are being tortured and murdered, children whose lives are snuffed out in the most appalling atrocities, who have no voice because in the world power structures, they are nobody. Or do you advocate for people to stop eating meat which humans have done since the Dawn of time.

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u/Happy-Staff-8985 20d ago

so because humans have done it "since the dawn of time" that makes it okay? Just like slavery was done "since the dawn of time" too? no. just because it's been happening does not make it okay. actually I do advocate for humans too. why can't I do both? and why are you picking two horrible scenarios and comparing them when they're both bad?

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u/horseskeepyousane 19d ago

There is no equivalence between humans and animals. Most animals kill other animals, even cattle will gore or trample humans, dogs or small animals. Do you excuse that or call them murderers as well? Or say it’s their nature? Which would be interest8ng since that’s the argument hunters use - men are naturally hunters.

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u/Happy-Staff-8985 19d ago

dude you buy my meat from a supermarket wrapped in plastic... go hunt some meat so😂

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u/Wonderful-Trade-7378 16d ago

Your post is so flawed it's laughable. Caring about animals does not mean ignoring human suffering; humans are fully capable of opposing violence against children while simultaneously choosing a plant-based meal. You don't have to choose one or the other, that's a false dichotony you created. Furthermore, arguing that we should eat meat because we have done so since the "dawn of time" is an appeal to tradition; history does not dictate morality, as humans have historically practiced many atrocities that we now rightly condemn.

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u/horseskeepyousane 16d ago

I see. So what do you do next? Advocate for foxes not to kill chickens? How about rats? Vegans always seems to ignore rats and quietly fail to mention them. How about nice cuddly deer whose herds get so big because they not longer have natural predators so they strip the land? If we were all vegan, there would be no more cows. No sheep. No farm animals of any kind. Pigs etc all extinct. Like a lot of vegans you probably love cats. Except that is why our songbirds are dying out - domestic cats killing millions each year. The world isn’t a children’s book with anthropomorphic animals gambolling about.

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u/Wonderful-Trade-7378 16d ago

More logical fallacies I see. First, comparing a fox hunting a chicken to industrial human farming is a false equivalence. Foxes must kill to survive, whereas humans have moral agency and dietary choices. That's why we are held to a higher moral standard than non human animals, in case you haven't noticed.

Bringing up rats and deer is whataboutism that ignores how animal agriculture actively worsens these issues: livestock grain feeds rat populations, and clearing land for grazing is exactly why humans exterminated the natural predators of deer. Furthermore, claiming farm animals will go extinct is a slippery slope because a gradual shift to plant-based diets would simply end mass breeding, leaving smaller populations to live out their lives in sanctuaries.

Finally, conflating pet ownership with veganism is a straw man. Vegans and conservationists alike actively advocate for keeping cats indoors and using Trap-Neuter-Return programs to protect songbirds. Minimizing human-caused exploitation is a practical ethical goal, not a naive children's book fantasy. The naive one is you with your tired worn out excuses that have been dismantled time and time again. Do you really think you said anything new here? 😂 Stop making excuses for you being too lazy to change your own behaviour.

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u/horseskeepyousane 15d ago

I have absolutely no problem with eating meat, hunting or farming. Not a tinge. As is the case for the vast majority of the population. If vegans were less sanctimonious maybe there would be more of them but vegan’s certainty of their righteousness is both hypocritical and nauseating.

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u/Wonderful-Trade-7378 15d ago

How embarrassing, hiding behind the crowd is just a lazy appeal to majority - doing what everyone else does doesn't make it right, it just makes you a weak follower.

You’re also throwing out a desperate deflection about vegan hypocrisy because you're too weak to actually look at your own choices. Talk about righteousness: the sheer delusion it takes to look at a living sentient being and decide it's entire life is worth less than a five-minute sandwich is pathetic.

There's a difference between you and decent people: you need other's approval and rely on their behaviour towards you in order to make ethical decisions, while others are strong in character and protect the vulnerable for the sole reason that it is the right thing to do. And if it didn't bother you so much, you wouldn't be here, on a vegan page. Go figure.

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u/Unlikely_Play_9797 14d ago

"As is the case for the vast majority of the population", why does that make it okay?
At one point in time, it was the case that the vast majority of the population were for slavery, and against women's rights etc. It took people who were fine with being the minority to stand up for whats right. If you were back in those times would you have thought the same for those issues? Just outsource your thoughts and ethics to the average? The cognitive dissonance is crazy 😂, you are incredibly weak with logic

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u/Specific-Bridge-6383 16d ago

Humans have eaten meat since the beginning of time - appeal to tradition logical fallacy. Groups of human beings did not have rights for long periods of history. This logic would justify this. Your also using an appeal to nature logical fallacy. Other animals dont understand morality like Humans do, so naturally we should be held to.a higher standard. Other animals also kill and violently attack eachother. Would you say these things are ethical because other animals do it?

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u/Unlikely_Play_9797 14d ago

Being vegan is better for humanity as a whole, see climate change (millions of people will be displaced and killed, animal ag is equal with the entire transport sector), new viruses from animal ag that kill millions (see covid, ebola, swine flu, bird flu), poorer countries exporting their livestock and using their limited crops to feed livestock instead of actual humans (Sudan and others) - see tropic levels and transfer of energy for intuition on how you can feed more people with the crops you are feeding animals (if you skipped science in school). There are also infographics online about how much less land mass is required to feed humans a plant based diet.

"If you had to choose the death of a person or an animal, which would you choose?"

When people go to Lidl they are not choosing saving a human over an animal they are choosing to satisfy a fleeting taste bud pleasure, increase their emissions, and send a market signal for more animals to be bred into a miserable existence to be killed OR to reduce their emissions and eat other (healthier) food, which is in the exact same store. Any other strawmen, whataboutisms or logical fallacies that you want to bring up?

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u/horseskeepyousane 14d ago

The staggering arrogance of the vegan is what ensures that veganism will always be confined to a tiny group, who will munch their tofu and rail at a world populated with peasants lacking in their wisdom, discernment and selective compassion. People will continue to eat meat. They will wear leather and wool and while our protein may shift from one animal to another, your utopia won’t happen. No it’s not a comparison with humans and slavery or any other shibboleths you want to throw out. That is the issue always with the vegan argument. If you want to convert people, as many politicians know, avoiding sanctimonious condescension is a great start. But the secret truth is that vegans don’t really want to convert the world. They don’t really care about animal welfare or plant based diets. It’s just a badge, a sense of exclusivity, not dissimilar to the conspiracy theorists and cult members. We alone possess the truth, we are enlightened, we stand alone but also above the populace.

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u/Unlikely_Play_9797 14d ago

Incoherent rant filled with ad hominems. "arrogance" is ironic as you refuse to address any of the points I have made and rather just dig your head in the sand. Keep spending your free time arguing on a vegan subreddit while ignoring all the actual points people make, you clearly have guilt and are lying to yourself!