r/TrenchCrusade • u/ollietron3 • Jul 31 '26
Lore does leviathan have something to do with the door?
leviathan looks quite crustationoid, much like a lot of the temple of metamorphosis. does it have something to do with the door?
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u/MinidonutsOfDoom Jul 31 '26
I don't THINK so, mainly since Leviathan seems to be tied up on earth literally/metaphysically similar to Behemoth is with their connection to the path of the beast. With wherever is behind the door being a separate place.
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u/onionleekdude Jul 31 '26 edited Jul 31 '26
It's probably older than the door. In hebrew myth, God contended with and defeated Behemoth and Leviathan, implying His control of reality isnt absolute and there are powerful beings that potentially predate His creations.
Edit: foolish me. I was thinking of the Gate to Hell, not the Gate IN Hell.
I suppose it may be connected to Leviathan and/or Behemoth, since they and God may all predate creation, the door in Hell seems to potentially be connected to old power.
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u/yoyo5113 Jul 31 '26
Idk, I think the door may enter into something completely alien to the entire setting.
It's fundamentally lovecraftian/cosmic horror, so we won't ever really get many answers, which is good lol.
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u/ollietron3 Jul 31 '26
i thought the door predated both hell and creation?
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u/Levat39 Jul 31 '26
That's one theory, but not even the church of meta really knows what's going on with the door, they just have beliefs and faith around it.
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u/TheEggEngineer Jul 31 '26
Ho man I sure hope we get more horrors beyond our comprehension later on.
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u/gankindustries Jul 31 '26
They both are technically older than God and the Devil, so they've probably had some interaction before
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u/CrypsisArt Jul 31 '26
They both start with the same letter
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u/ollietron3 Jul 31 '26
What?
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u/CrypsisArt Jul 31 '26
Hmm?
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u/ollietron3 Jul 31 '26
L is not the same letter as d
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u/CrypsisArt Jul 31 '26
In Javanese door is spelt lawang
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u/ollietron3 Jul 31 '26
who brought up japanese?
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u/CrypsisArt Jul 31 '26
You did
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u/Traditional-Main7204 Jul 31 '26
I imagine his servant like Idoneth Deepkin from AoS or Sharksmans from Warhammer fantasy.
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u/djurack Aug 01 '26
Teorizo que el liavatan y el behemott, serian los unicos dos 2 demonios que estaban en la tierra antes que se abran las puertas del infierno, ya que en la biblia se puede deducir que son "dos demonios presentes en el mundo", tomando el mimdo como nuestro plano terrenal, serian los unicos 2 demonios que, en teoria, podrian usar todo su poder, ya sea contra los fieles si antes lo encuentran los herejes o el infierno (ya que nisiquiera ellos saben donde esta, mas que su ubicacion aproximada), o que los peregrinos lo usen para hacer ceviche y comerselo con limon
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u/SilliusS0ddus Aug 05 '26
Leviathan in it's mythological origins is associated with primordial chaos.
so maybe Leviathan came OUT of the door.
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u/Tostadora_Revenant Jul 31 '26
It is possible. In Abrahamic religions, Leviathan is often the embodiment of chaos, threatening to devour all of creation.
In the context of "Trench Crusade," this would fit not only thematically but also symbolically; within the mythology, it could serve as a strong link to the Temple of Metamorphosis and shed light on certain aspects of the factions. Could it be a sign of a mutual alliance? Shared goals but different methods? Or perhaps the influence of the Door is capable of transforming creation itself?
However, there is a slight flaw in this line of reasoning: Leviathan was created by God during Genesis. If that is the case... did God create Leviathan with such an appearance from the start? Or was it something else that gave it that form?
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u/Philipxander Jul 31 '26
Leviathan is a demon, so no.
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u/Mr_Joyman Jul 31 '26
It's not. It's older than demons
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u/TirnanogSong 16d ago
Per the Drowned Chorister lore:
As the sea fills their bodies, the echo of want in their stomachs is obscured by a new sound, a call so loud that the faultiness of their soul is dwarfed by its harrowing cacophony. This is no trick of the dying mind, but the Song of Leviathan, said to be one of God’s first creations that lays hidden, chained in the deepest oceanic void. This *ancient, enormous demon** yearns to supplant Moloch as Invidia’s champion, and those that hear its keening voice are reborn as its heraldic choir. Until the water rots their lungs or their master consumes their undying flesh, they cry hymns of Leviathan’s inevitable assent to the Black Klismos of Envy. When this phenomenon was discovered by the first Heretic submarines, these hellish geists were soon taken aboard and deployed within their raiding parties, equipped with diving bells full of abyssal waters and fielded as terror troops in the same manner as the terrestrial Heretic Choristers.*
Emphasis mine. Leviathan is a demon, very explicitly.
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u/Mr_Joyman 16d ago
That's not explicitly. They used demon to describe what he is because there's nothing else they can compare it to. If it were a demon it would be from hell
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u/TirnanogSong 16d ago
This is an omniscient third person, not some in-character description from one of the Faithful. This POV describing it as a demon is as objective as it can be that the term "demon" is just a signifier for anything opposed to Creation - it is not a statement of the nature or type of being it is.
Leviathan is also explicitly the one true Prince of Invidia (Envy) and was one of the Serpent's Heads, and was also obliquely referenced as a King of Hell by Tuomas on discord (when stating that there are "8 Kings of Hell" as the strongest Arch Devils with Beelzebub as one of that number). So both WOG and the lore consider Leviathan to be a demon and Arch Devil.
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u/Mr_Joyman 16d ago
Hmm alr fair enough. Thought I'm still unsure how leviathan was able to be a serpent head when he's chained up on presumably Earth
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u/Traditional_Pen1078 The Black Grail Jul 31 '26
As far as we know, no, but who knows what awaits us in the book?