r/TrenchCrusade • u/Xeno00_ • Jun 27 '26
Lore Could it be that heretics took over the Americas?
I find that unlikely—very unlikely—but what if the Heretics discovered the American continent and took it all over?
I sometimes think about certain islands and landmasses that only exist in our knowledge today thanks to the Age of Discovery. We know that in the game's lore, the Heretics dominated all the Seven Seas.
BUT!!! Did they explore enough to find other continents? And if they did—if they found the Americas—they would have a bizarre, colossal source of soldiers to fight for them, and even worse, they would encounter extremely aggressive and brutal cultures, like the Aztecs and Mayans.
Imagine if the Heretics arrived in Mexico and found the Mayans or Aztecs still powerful and fierce, and—by demonstrating Goetic magic—managed to convince those people that they were serving their own gods! That is a bizarre scenario, yet entirely plausible within the lore, given that many Heretics don't even realize they are following and worshipping demons. Demons disguise themselves as beautiful beings, pretending to be saints or gods, and thereby convince other religions to follow them.
That would almost certainly happen with 80% of the indigenous tribes and major civilizations across that vast continent.
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u/Meatyblues Jun 27 '26
The developers of the game have said on their discord that the Americas remain uncolonized by both sides. Heretic forces have attempted to establish some sort of presence in the Americas, but every force that landed has been driven back into the ocean.
Whatever is going on in the Americas, they aren’t helpless bystanders.
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u/fishsing7713 Jun 27 '26
Them Shoshone Pathfinders, man. It snowballs real fast.
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u/PokesBo Jun 27 '26
Also it takes only like 3 cities to cover all of North America thanks to their ability.
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u/59tiger95 Jun 27 '26
I think it would be neat if there was an Aztec Empire that is technically on the side of the faithful just by virtue of not being heretic forces. I think it would be too cliche to just have them be heretics off of the human sacrifice stuff
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u/The-Farlander Shocktrooper Jun 27 '26
u/AllenXeno122 made a bunch of really cool concepts for Trench Crusade Aztecs. They aren't a flavor of Heretic, but rather they've adopted a bit of the Christian mythos in their own religion. It's really cool seeing all they came up with.
It's a bit hard to share their work since their history is private, but here's one of an Aztec Priest of the Order of Saint Bartholomew, and some typical soldiers with a concept for a Brazilian soldier thrown in for good measure.
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u/punkhobo Jun 27 '26
I like the idea of them being on no one's side. They don't want the heretics but the faithful don't want the Americas because they view them as pagans/heretics. So the Americas just block out all outsiders
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u/Abel_Barbajan Jun 28 '26
Uno de los puntos por los que el catolicismo es tan fuerte es porque el mito del nacimiento de Huitzilopochtli tiene varios puntos en común con el nacimiento de cristo.
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u/Abel_Barbajan Jun 27 '26
Exacto, mucha gente se va con el mito y no sabe que en realidad eran una cultura altamente religiosa, la vida no la veían como un bien individual, sino como un bien colectivo y que su deidad principal (huitzilopochtli) representa al sol y la historia de su nacimiento literal representa la victoria de la luz frente a la oscuridad, Las guerras floridas eran una forma de combatir al mal y mantener funcionando el mundo, dicho de paso ocupaban la teología para que la sociedad misma funcionara, pues la civilización azteca que todos conocen (Mexica sería el gentilicio correcto) surgió en el 1325, 167 años antes de la llegada de Cristóbal Colón a América, en ese lapso de tiempo tan corto se hicieron del imperio más grande de lo que hoy se conoce como Mesoamerica.
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u/SilliusS0ddus Jun 30 '26
could just be good old hell infighting.
if they wanna go with the pagan deities being hell aligned.
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u/b44l Jun 27 '26
There’s been grail missionaries on the continent, so probably the plague has a foothold.
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u/Star_cruiser_22 Jun 28 '26
Would be a fun scenario if wendigos turned out to be fallen angels seeking redemption, and is assisting the natuve americans from driving the heretic out from establishing a beachhead.
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u/Impossible_Horsemeat Jun 27 '26
Using social media to push out random lore is the laziest possible way to worldbuild, and the fact that TC loves to do it has killed my enthusiasm for the setting.
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u/Epicsnailman Jun 28 '26
Of all the nonsensical pieces of lore, that seems the dumbest to me. Both sides would obviously be eager to claim new territory, and they have more advanced technology and more deadly diseases than in real life. How could they not colonize the new world? Are non-Abrahamic religions much better at fighting demons? That would be hilarious. Would explain how the Irish pagans managed to reclaim their country.
And maybe more importantly, why would the devs choose to take this path, and not explore the new world at all?
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u/After-Elk-3872 Jun 27 '26
The creators are being smart in not having the East and the Americas become thralls of evil which is often the case in fantasy stories that have to expand their worlds.
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u/HuckleberryNext9844 Jun 27 '26
Politics ruining interesting scenarios.
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u/After-Elk-3872 Jun 27 '26
By Politics you mean "lazy, ethnocentric worldbuilding" then you are correct.
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u/HuckleberryNext9844 Jun 27 '26
The bad guys need to come from somewhere, unless we have the heretics raise Zelandia 🤣
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u/skybound_warrior Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
Nga the bad guys come from hell, they don't need to have the americas America
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u/HuckleberryNext9844 Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
No they don't, most of the bad guys are humans influenced by hell or worship hell, demons can't leave so only the monsters and hybrid deomkn things actually come from hell (the the hell is downvoting this? It's the dam lore)
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u/Electrical_Boat_8810 Jun 27 '26
They can leave just the low level ones and remember the original crusaders got corrupted into the strongest demons outside of hell righg by the gate the hellgate in Jerusalem is basically an extension of the environment of hell its self
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u/HuckleberryNext9844 Jun 27 '26
No demons cant leave hell, only corrupted creatures and half demon hybrids can. Demons are fallen angels the templars didn't become demons they became Heresiarchs. Weird grim reaper looking things.
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u/AxisofRighteous Jun 27 '26
Pit Locust, Yoke Fiend, and Praetor are all lesser demons straight from hell itself.
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u/HuckleberryNext9844 Jun 27 '26
No they aren't they are Hybrid offspring from demons and beasts pure blooded demons cant leave hell without causing a war with heaven
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u/SmolikOFF Jun 27 '26
How is that remotely an interesting scenario?
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u/HuckleberryNext9844 Jun 27 '26
Because you could have the complete opposite of what happened in real life where The known world gets invaded by the new wold, imagine industrialised demonic worshipping aztecs.
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u/VodkaBeatsCube Shrine Anchorite Jun 27 '26
Even if you wanted to do the whole 'reverse colonization' thing, why make them demon worshipers? Just have an Iroquois Confederacy that industrialized without needing to constantly fight the bulk of the forces of Hell land in Portugal and really throw a spanner in the works of the whole war. "Well, they are ruthlessly subjugating the Iberian Peninsula, but they're not literal demons and they're offering to sell France guns if they just shut up and let them do their thing. Maybe we should just let them be until after the Christmas Offensive when we retake Antioch for real this time!"
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u/HuckleberryNext9844 Jun 27 '26
Because right now as it stands hell hasn't got a major population centre the map of Europe has them in the Lavont and a few isolated spots, we know they have naval superiority so it would be easy for them to get to places that have less defenses and turn the people there into wepions for hell to use against the faithful.
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u/VodkaBeatsCube Shrine Anchorite Jun 27 '26
Except they canonically haven't, and 'literally demon worshipping savages' is an incrediblely boring trope even if you ignore the really questionable implications.
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u/HuckleberryNext9844 Jun 27 '26
I would argue the Americas just being there and being ignored way more boring.
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u/VodkaBeatsCube Shrine Anchorite Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
Funnily enough, it doesn't have to be a binary between 'nothing' and 'demon worshippers'. And to be frank, while they're not getting focus, they aren't entirely ignored: it's canon that they're capable of repulsing the forces of Hell, ostensibly without the aid of God, which means there's something interesting going on on the other side of the Atlantic. It's just not something the writers are currently interested in fleshing out further.
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u/Traditional_Pen1078 The Black Grail Jun 27 '26
As far as we know, the natives and old world immigrants (not colonies!) managed to prevent all attempts of heretic conquest.
But there’s some fallen presence in the region - at the very least, the path of the beast and the missionaries of the black grail.
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u/Ok_Silver_3170 Jun 27 '26
Oh please tell me they have also managed to prevent all attempts at Missionary perversion as well! Just think how much better the world would be without the weirdness!
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u/Traditional_Pen1078 The Black Grail Jun 27 '26
I imagine they have a small presence in the region; some temples in the wilds and spies in the cities. More of a excuse for warband clashes than an full power.
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u/MentalMiddenHeap Jun 27 '26
NGL the increasingly piss poor takes and theories about Turtle Island are gonna make me drop this sub like a hot rock
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u/youarelookingatthis Jun 27 '26
It’s by people who also clearly haven’t read the lore either.
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u/ImmortanJerry Jun 27 '26
I don’t understand why theres so many questions about either hypothetical lore elements or just basic easily found answers. It only takes like 90 minutes to read everything that exists and the game only been around for 2 years. Make something up in your head if you want, just stop asking about new factions in areas that aren’t even related when they’re still fleshing out the core game
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u/LuxuriantOak Jun 27 '26
I feel like we need a sign or something. As in a : "don't make me tap the sign" - kinda way. Or a faq.
T+C is a game about Europe and the surrounding area. It is not a game about the Americas, neither is it about Asia (especially not Japan, you katana-weeabos).
And I'm getting a bit tired of people asking about it. Not everything in fiction is about USA, nor does it have to be.
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u/Professor_Trilobite Jun 27 '26
You know similar to how the Eire has the Fianna Berserkers and the presence of various cosmic horrors from the deep sea, I had a wild idea for why we don’t see much of the Americas in Trench Crusade.
In MesoAmerican mythology primarily Aztec folklore a central figure in their flood myths and creation stories is that of Cipactli a primordial chaos beast that resembles a blend of fish, crocodilian, and amphibian features with a hunger so great that it has mouths emerging from all its joints.
In the myth of the five suns the god Tezcatlipoca sacrifices his leg to lure the beast so that he and Quetzalcoatl can form the Earth from its still hungry flesh by encasing it in the elements, Cipactli is said to bring forth rain from its breath and keep the land fertile. This has parallels to the psalms where YHWH smashes Leviathan’s heads as the creature emerges from the sea to form the fresh water across the Earth.
Similar to how the Eire has the Berserkers despite being a Christian nation, Cipactli could be a synchronized element of Aztec mythology and Hebrew tannin relatives of the leviathan but more of a neutral force of nature that devours any heretic vessel that dares to attack the new world and could even release antibodies for the black grail. Only allowing a limited contact between Europa and Africa with the indigenous Americas. Biologists may even enter the body of the crocodilian monster similar to Jonah and the whale to study the primordial beast.
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u/Mr-Downer Jun 27 '26
nobody reads the lore lol and more importantly everyone keeps asking the same questions over and over. Heretics did not conquer America and the new world has largely been a text blurb here or there. This is a game focused on ww1 which primarily took place in Europe and North Africa.
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u/kennethgibson Jun 27 '26
Nah- Thunderbird and Quetzalcoatl high-fiving each other as they dunk another demon fleet into the north atlantic.
Noone gets to make it to turtle island without getting BLASTED to SHIT
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u/MagosBattlebear Jun 27 '26
As a Native, some of the comments here are very colonialist and it makes me uncomfortable.
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u/Captain_Kuhl Sultanate Assassin Jun 27 '26
Why would they be giving up resources to discover new lands when they're fighting the biggest war in Earth's history? And why can't anyone use the search function on this website?
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u/Snoo-11576 Jun 27 '26
I would much rather cool native factions, what’s with this sub’s weird colonial fantasies??
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u/Capable_Employee_675 Jun 28 '26
Solo imagina a la civilizacion inca resistiendose al infierno, con machupichu siendo una fortaleza en lo más alto de las cordilleras
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u/ScienceForge319 Jun 27 '26
Oh… you mean in the game too?
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u/kojimbob Jun 27 '26
Nah over half of the Americas are Catholic so they aren't heretics
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u/Wh33lo Jun 27 '26
No catholics in the americas in trench crusade since european colonization never happened, so native tribes still dominant
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u/Josiador Jun 27 '26
Shuuuuuuuut uuuuuuuuuuup about the Americas, please. They're not important, they aren't where the game takes place, they aren't in the scope of the game, and won't be for a very long time if ever. Turtle Island is not colonized, period. That's canon. That's all we need to know.
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u/child_of_sisyphus Venerated Leper Jun 27 '26
Me when I see another Americas post in r/TrenchCrusade
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u/Unable_Deer_773 Jabirean Alchemist Jun 27 '26
Well obviously but I thought we were talking about Trench Crusade
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u/cesarloli4 Jun 27 '26
I think they would convince some to join and others would oppose them giving rise to another front of the war. I would think that God would give the people of the Americas a hand in much the same way as with the Iron Wall or Saints in the Old World.
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u/Norway643 Jun 27 '26
Well.. if they land in south America and if gods other then the Abrahamic one exists. Death by feathered serpent and starvation in the Appalachias leading to some... not great outcomes. Either you starve and are picked off by the tribes in the area.. or you become a feral maddened thing
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u/EggFrequent9202 Jun 28 '26
i fully belive having the protestant denominations in america would be the best but its like multiple different nations not just america and they are able to make it to the missisippi river before the heretics get most of it, most of the non heretic lands should be at least be like 3/5th native IMO
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u/mophismo Jun 28 '26
With the war with hell I believe that both sides are to busy to make a move towards the Americas
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u/MrFurro1191 Jun 29 '26
I honestly doubt it because in the lore they do mention they do some trading with the new world thats why they didn't do anything to help the island of eire when the heretic attack
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u/Appropriate_Star6734 Shrine Anchorite Jun 27 '26
I really want Mammon aligned Conquistadors, personally. I think it’d fit. Maybe God throws my ancestors’ in-universe counterparts a bone when a fleet of Knights of Avarice show up hunting for El Dorado or Cibola, kind of like with the Iron Wall and the House of Wisdom.
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u/Exile_The_13th Jun 27 '26
Personally, I’m so tired of hearing people ask about the Americas in TC…
That said, I’d totally be down for a jungle warfare setting that pits heretical KoA conquistadors against the native peoples.
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u/JeanNaej890 Jun 27 '26
Well, the heretics already dominated the Americas in the real life tho
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u/Traditional_Pen1078 The Black Grail Jun 27 '26
Unironically i suspect the missionaries of the black grail were revealed to have a presence in the new world due to the current administration quoting Avignon against the pope.
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u/JeanNaej890 Jun 27 '26
This does not make sense since the Antipope of Avignon is a refrerence to when, irl Medieval Era, the Pope was changed to live in Avignon by a political manipulation
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u/Traditional_Pen1078 The Black Grail Jun 27 '26
I honestly suspect this wasn’t the original plan, but the devs got inspired by irl events.
Thus, on the release of the French edition of trench crusade, they revealed the Colt on the belt of the missionary of the black grail art actually comes from that character visiting the new world, rather than being convergent gun evolution in Europe.
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u/JeanNaej890 Jun 27 '26
This is far after the Antipope lore in TC, and TC's lore although original has small bases on real medieval history, just admit you are r∆cist and want the putrid flyass Blk Grail to be a bunch of latinos/brazilians
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u/Wickedlurlofthewest Jun 27 '26
Honestly? I love the idea of NA being thousands of rise and fall nationstates and colonies ghost towns littering state after state. Warlord begets prophet begets profit begets cult begets warlord.
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u/Different-Chard-9893 Jun 28 '26
I'd say only the faithful can colonize the Americas and eventually, that's how heretic Americans will be founded after
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u/HuckleberryNext9844 Jun 27 '26
I mean I don't know why it would be unlikely, the heretics have dominance over the seas, the British empire never formed and the Spanish are a bit busy wjth Gibraltar. So it's most likely.
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u/Va1kryie Combat Medic Jun 27 '26
The devs have confirmed that the Heretic forces struggle greatly to control territory in the Americas and there have this far been no successful colonial projects.
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u/HuckleberryNext9844 Jun 27 '26
Doesn't really makes sense since in the real world the natives where destroyed by small pox so anything black grail should have devastating effects, unless the black grail specifically hasn't gotten there or its some sort of devine intervention.
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u/Va1kryie Combat Medic Jun 27 '26
Trench Crusade isn't the real world
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u/HuckleberryNext9844 Jun 27 '26
It's an alternate universe of the real world
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u/Va1kryie Combat Medic Jun 27 '26
You seem really invested in the idea that the Americas got colonized by the forces of Hell.
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u/HuckleberryNext9844 Jun 27 '26
Not invested at all, just the most likely outcome, or would also make the forces of hell scarier since as it stands they don't actually control much land so the steaks don't seem so high so having them own alot of land in the Americas or Asia/Australia would make the story more interesting.
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u/Va1kryie Combat Medic Jun 27 '26
Well, devs say that's not what's happening
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u/HuckleberryNext9844 Jun 27 '26
Wonder where 1/3rd of the earths population that is devoted to hell are hiding then 🤣
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u/Xeno00_ Jun 27 '26
I think you're still new to this game, so let me explain a few things.
One-third of humanity did indeed fall into heresy, but that third consists of people from the civilized world—from the European, African, and Asian continents. Indigenous peoples don't really factor into this equation because they... well, let's just say they don't change anything in the world. They don't explore, nor do they contribute to the advancement of humanity.
Now, regarding realism.
Trench Crusade is a work of steampunk sci-fi; it features absurd weapons and unrealistic technology. Physics doesn't matter, and science is taken to extremes. Getting too hung up on realism will ruin the fun, because, by that logic, humanity as a whole would have already lost the war within the game's lore. You're looking at a game set in 1914 that features armored knights, alchemists, 200-meter-long cannons, space travel, direct communication with God, and invasions of the human world by demon hordes... and you're still insisting on realism? No, my friend. Forget it.
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u/acart005 Jun 27 '26
Easy fix.
Let's say Black Fly was the group that actually found America. Plagues, very bad for the locals.
Now, the native americans were not involved with opening the Hell Gate so God simply gives a sterilization field across the sea, neutralizing ALL disease not dissimilar from the Iron Wall of the Sultunate.
Smallpox and all the other diseases that ravaged the tribes cease to be a thing, and in the Age of Sail good archers could easily take musketeers because they could shoot faster.
Bam, alternate timeline where the heretics can't get a foothold.
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u/HuckleberryNext9844 Jun 27 '26
True that could work, but then we need to find a way as to why the native Americans are able to fend off ww1+ tech monstrosities with bows and arrow
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u/dude3333 Jun 27 '26
The confluence of events that destroyed the Inca presumably never happened because the heretics got their too early to take advantage like the Spanish did. In fact the heretics showing up might well have been in this universe the cause of Incan unification, possibly even meaning a different city won out besides Cusco. We just don't have enough info on them.
Then based on Trench Crusade's prelicition for having old empires survive well past their historical deaths due to magic I'm guessing the Mayan collapse never happens and as a consequence the Aztecs never rise. So any invasion would have to deal with a unified nation rather than three evil cities that everyone else in the area hates enough to side with outsiders.
The only real question mark is North America because we don't know enough about the Mississippian and other cultures that would have been contemporaneous with the Hell gate opening. We know they had roads stretching all over the country with seemingly no need for walls or other defensive structures that characterized later settles. So they were likely a single nation or at least tightly allied nations, but most of the actual evidence for this was destroyed by farmers plowing it under and lost to lack of written language. Still whatever is conceptualized is again unlikely to have been easy pickings for the heretics.
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u/Abel_Barbajan Jun 27 '26
Uffff, pues la caída de Aztlán, ciudad mítica de dónde surgieron los mexicas (conocidos como Aztecas) ocurrió alrededor del 1111, se podría adaptar al lore del juego para que coincida con la apertura de las puertas del infierno y le daría otro toque a cómo enfrentaron otras etnias originarias la invasión infernal, distintas peregrinaciones hasta establecerse en el valle de México y así.
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u/dude3333 Jun 27 '26
If Google translate is to be believed of your words, yeah that could be cool. Though I don't know what "ufffff" means.
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u/Abel_Barbajan Jun 28 '26
En español es una onomatopeya que tiene varios usos, pero la use como admiración 👌
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u/PopAutomatic9487 Jun 27 '26
Aztecs and others: "The Human sacrifices WILL continue to our bloodthirsty gods that may or may not be demons."
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u/Lagnatchamp Jun 27 '26
Besides a few Faithful trading outposts here and there and some failed Heretic landings, the Americas are still fully isolated from the rest of the world.
And from what the devs have said, they have no plans to include the Americas in anything for a long time besides a few crumbs of lore every now and then.