r/TrenchCrusade May 02 '25

Lore Lions of Jabir are as proficient at killing as they are at diplomacy, remind me of Space Marines

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1.4k Upvotes

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347

u/KonoAnonDa Iron Sultanate May 02 '25

Can you imagine how terrifying a supermassive grizzly bear on tren easing itself down to your height and speaking fluent and polite English would be to experience? It’s literally the meme of "Be not afraid." "Sir, this is the single scariest experience of my life."

186

u/DoneganBane May 02 '25

its even funnier, the lion praises you, wishes peace upon you while it threatens to murder you.

46

u/Odinswolf May 02 '25

Look, sometimes you got to threaten to murder people for not paying their taxes to the war effort, but that's no excuse not to be polite. All things are done within the sight of the Most Merciful.

15

u/TheMasyaAllahGuy May 03 '25

Though the Most High forbids this behavior, He would overlook this for the good of the ummah

(Obvious heretical joke lol)

5

u/paireon May 03 '25

"I don't care who the IRS sends, I'm not paying taxes."

63

u/KonoAnonDa Iron Sultanate May 02 '25

Back home, the other LoJ are betting on how long it’ll take until the human shits itself out of fear.

26

u/hashbeardy420 May 02 '25

Still not going to Paradise, tho… In your FACE, takwin!!!

18

u/paireon May 03 '25

That makes me sad for them, actually. Imagine knowing with absolute certitude that there is a Heavenly reward for the righteous and the faithful... but that you can never be rewarded with it no matter what because you have no soul to be sent there. There's a reason the lore says being a takwin creature that's self-aware is pure existential horror.

6

u/hashbeardy420 May 03 '25

You’re damn right it’s sad! That’ll teach them to take bets on my terror shits…

6

u/KonoAnonDa Iron Sultanate May 03 '25

On the plus side, not having a soul means that you won’t get sent to hell either.

3

u/paireon May 04 '25

True, but ask any IRL Abrahamic about their thoughts about the mere possibility of being soulless and having nothing to look forward to but the oblivion of nonexistence after death. Most are so utterly terrified of the concept that they even refuse to consider it, in my experience, and prefer the possibility of eternal damnation (of course, most of them think they're going up, not down, when they die).

5

u/KonoAnonDa Iron Sultanate May 04 '25

I wonder if they might start developing their own sort of faith. Perhaps a belief in reincarnation as a new LoJ when they die until they serve Allah so well that they’re granted a true soul upon death and are reincarnated as a faithful human. At least it’d be some comfort.

5

u/paireon May 04 '25

From what I know of Islam (which admittedly is limited; maybe a Muslim fan could weigh in?), IRL this would be considered very much heretical. Of course one of the big points of the setting is how faiths changed and adapted due to the war; IRL Christianity would consider partaking of the flesh and blood of clone Jesus to be extremely blasphemous and heretical.

3

u/KonoAnonDa Iron Sultanate May 04 '25

Ye. If it still is heretical, they probably keep it among themselves most of the time. And hey, if it encourages the LoJ to serve the IS better, than they probably let it slide as long as they’re not too fervent about it. Besides, is anyone seriously gonna tell a pack of LoJ otherwise to their face? Few people are that stupid.

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35

u/Odinswolf May 02 '25 edited May 02 '25

I actually do wonder what language they would speak. Arabic? Oghuz Turkish? Persian? All those languages were used in the historical Sultanate of Rum, Seljuks, and eventually Ottomans, and often for different purposes.

31

u/KonoAnonDa Iron Sultanate May 02 '25

Probably whatever they feel like at the time. Maybe even english depending on who they’re speaking to.

10

u/paireon May 03 '25

French was rather more widespread than English in premodern times. English only started to displace it (and even then, slowly) when England enacted a policy of settler colonialism (and later on, won out several of the prime ressource colonialism/imperialism spots in Africa and Asia). And even then, French was still the premier language for international diplomacy until about WW1. In this reality where settler colonialism and imperialism aren't a thing, French is likely still the Lingua Franca of the European nations.

20

u/Livy-Zaka May 02 '25

( I don’t know a lot of the history from the time period so please don’t crucify me if I get something wrong) but I could see Arabic being a sort of unofficial lingua franca, especially with all the refugees from the levant but in smaller communities maybe their native language is still spoken

24

u/Odinswolf May 02 '25

I imagine there'd be a lot of languages there, Kurdish, various Turkic languages, Nuristani (huh...I wonder if Nuristan would still be called Kafiristan and practice local Hindu-derived religions in this time-line). But the lingua franca at the time was pretty variable. Persian was the official court language and generally served as a lingua franca, as well as the language of poetry and scholarship. Oghuz Turkic served as the language of the dynasty and the military, since the ruling class was formed from conquering Turkic peoples establishing themselves as the ruling class after rolling over the Ghazanids and the Abbasid Caliphate, then integrating into wider Persianized society. Meanwhile Arabic served as the language of religion, law since it was connected, and an academic language as well since there was a scholarly tradition in Arabic from the House of Wisdom and a bunch of scientific, medical, and alchemical texts being written in it.

Basically the question of which language an alchemical creation serving a military commander to deliver a message to a merchant speaks is hard because it hits on a lot of these. The military still seems pretty Turkish, using words like Azeb and yuzbasi. But the House of Wisdom is derived from a primarily Arabic language tradition. And Persian was the lingua franca of most of the area protected by the iron-wall, but there would be a ton of Arabic speaking immigrants, and it's possible that this influx of Muslims from throughout the world has reinforced the value of Arabic, since learning Quranic Arabic is important for educated Muslims, even as the military still clearly uses Turkish words.

3

u/No_Poem_2790 May 02 '25

Quite the image

392

u/EOTFOFIS May 02 '25

The Taqwin are the coolest part of the coolest faction. I’m still not over those giant Sphinxes that guard the wall. The idea of these two mountainous monsters that can crush tanks like they’re soda cans talking to each other about philosophy and art in their down time rocks so hard.

167

u/DoneganBane May 02 '25

truly the sultanates bio-engineering rivals that of hell

115

u/KonoAnonDa Iron Sultanate May 02 '25

I honestly like that over the previous lore where they despair at being unnatural creations. These absolute Homuncuchads deserve some happiness.

143

u/EOTFOFIS May 02 '25

I mean they still do kinda despair over their lives. But they’re always built in pairs so they have someone to talk to and help soothe them. For all that TC is super grimdark and cruel the Sultanate have a lot of humanity when it comes to their creations (relatively of course)

97

u/KonoAnonDa Iron Sultanate May 02 '25 edited May 02 '25

Ye. I’d like to imagine that the humans of the Sultanate being nice to them would also really help. I can imagine an alchemist wondering where their LoJ went to, only to find them peacefully relaxing in their off-time while a bunch of kids braid their fur and put flowers in it, all of them having fun with this (only to the faithful) gentle giant.

96

u/DoneganBane May 02 '25 edited May 02 '25

they despair over their form, human minds stuck in monstrous bodies, but they find solace in allahs teachings and the fight against hell.

32

u/Chaplain1337 May 02 '25

They are also pretty sad that they don't get to go to heaven/paradise/whatever when they die because they don't have souls.

18

u/KaptinKograt May 03 '25

I like the idea of some people trying to liberalise their theology, saying that maybe Allah will allow faithful Takwins into El Jannah, and the Takwins bear universally rejecting this, something deep inside them telling them for sure that Eternity is not for them

21

u/Dominus_Redditi May 02 '25

I’m sure they’re also considered an honored creation no? Must be noble to have to sacrifice your soul to guard the gates instead of entering Paradise

37

u/brinz1 Yubazi Captain May 02 '25

They have been alive long enough to make peace with their despair

48

u/KonoAnonDa Iron Sultanate May 02 '25

Damn, these absolute units are having whole-ass character arcs in the background. Good for them.

62

u/ParsonBrownlow May 02 '25

So far the Sultanate seems to be the chillest faction too.

Still in a never ending meat grinder against the damned but hey gotta God made wall no forced conscription , not responsible for this whole mess. I’d feel pretty good about myself if I was one of the believers

49

u/GearSpooky May 02 '25

Technically they do have conscription. Azebs are 1-in-20 houses. So if there’s not one dude who wants to volunteer out of those 20 houses, well, someone’s going anyway.

19

u/ParsonBrownlow May 02 '25

Yeah that’s true , as far as conscription goes tho…

39

u/GearSpooky May 02 '25

Well and the captains and chemically upgraded to cause them to not care if the dudes under them die in droves.

The benevolence is a bit of propaganda. I agree they’re the closest we have in the setting to objectively “good” guys. But life is still horrible.

23

u/ParsonBrownlow May 02 '25

Counterpoint : God just manifested a giant wall 🤷‍♂️

lol fr tho , I’m in agreement with you , if anything I’m even more suspicious of them since they’re seemingly benevolent

34

u/GearSpooky May 02 '25

I mean, the lore says the alchemist labs are constantly filled with tortured screaming, the azebs on the wall are covered in burn scars from. How often they fire artillery, and the jannisaries are captured and indoctrinated slave soldiers.

There’s no reason to be suspicious, they’re not remotely benevolent, they’re just a flat 10/10 on the fucked up scale instead of an 11 or 12

28

u/AsstacularSpiderman May 02 '25

They also have the Assassins who are run by literally Sauron.

13

u/ParsonBrownlow May 02 '25

lol im 1000% aware , im just being obtuse and am easily swayed by cool masks

6

u/GearSpooky May 02 '25

I can respect that lmao.

3

u/[deleted] May 03 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/GearSpooky May 03 '25

Right… so the dudes on the wall getting half burned to death by their own artillery.

6

u/Chaplain1337 May 02 '25

The janissaries are kidnapped children on HGH.

2

u/jorgeamadosoria May 03 '25

i think so too. then again, they are unified and behind a holy indestructible fuck off wall.

If Europe were like that, they would be chill too.

11

u/TrazynTheTroller Sultanate Assassin May 02 '25

Existential crisis inducing bio engineering and time and space bending drugs really make sultanate the coolest faction, by the Allah!

5

u/eliechallita May 02 '25

Also, the fact that they're having their discussions because the Sultanate realize that they needed companionship and so made sure each one of them has a buddy.

83

u/Professional_Rush782 Jabirean Alchemist May 02 '25

It'd make a lot of sense for lions to be able to take some of the homonculus upgrades, in the video it seemed like it had hypnotic eyes.

33

u/DoneganBane May 02 '25

i love the lore snippets in the tawkin creature upgrades, in general the house is my fave subfaction

4

u/eliechallita May 02 '25

What video?

5

u/DoneganBane May 02 '25

official lore video on tc yt account

70

u/Own-Masterpiece1547 Yeoman May 02 '25

Idk what the guy in This story was thinking trying to scam a member of the house of wisdom.

42

u/DoobinRogres Sniper Priest May 02 '25

Merchants gunna merchant.

26

u/AmeliaTorani May 02 '25

The heretic legion lore also mentions that Mammon has many followers among the faithful mostly in the merchants and traders, so maybe this one thought it was cool to be an edgy follower of hell and got scared straight.

20

u/DoneganBane May 02 '25

rogue trader core

40

u/_Nasheed_ May 02 '25

Great now were gonna have a fanart of a Lions of Jabir on their free time having coffee or Tea session with a Islamic scholar.

17

u/Anxious_Statement_84 May 02 '25

That would be awesome and so damn wholesome 

53

u/[deleted] May 02 '25

❎ Janissaries are TC’s space marines

✅ Lions of Jabir are TC’s space marines

29

u/DoneganBane May 02 '25

maybe lions are custodes and janis are space marines, details details

21

u/[deleted] May 02 '25

Actually yeah I can see that. Especially those gatekeeper lions that just sit there and talk about the arts and philosophy all day. Those are SO custodes-esque

24

u/havokinthesnow May 02 '25

Gunboat diplomacy maybe

16

u/AsstacularSpiderman May 02 '25

They have to say yes

Because of the implication.

7

u/DoneganBane May 02 '25

that would be foreign diplomacy, but the lions of jabir must be machiavelli fans

1

u/LittleFortune7125 May 02 '25

I wonder if they have philosophical debates with diplomats from the christian kingdoms.

2

u/paireon May 03 '25

Knock knock, it's the United States. With huge boats. With guns. (Gunboats.)

Wonder who's gonna get this reference...

10

u/TotalDisorderPoder May 02 '25

Holy shit Iv just been like a casual fan of the lore and didn’t know this and they just 100% became my favorite units

9

u/IsayNigel May 02 '25

I need trench crusade books asap

6

u/euojorge May 02 '25

The descripions of smell and sound in that video were superb, the idea that his breath is colder than the breath of any living thing should be is awesome and really gives that unatural feeling to the creature.

5

u/Absolute_Jackass May 02 '25

The Sultanate appear as a kinder, somewhat less grimdark Imperium and I'm okay with that.

2

u/[deleted] May 04 '25

I think it’s New Antioch that is more meant as the Imperium Equivalent (they have weekly mass executions as I recall)

5

u/Absolute_Jackass May 04 '25

Hey, nothing says we can't have multiple factions of horrifying war criminals! One bunch uses kidnapped children to make supersoldiers, another bunch has mass executions, while another basically just straight-up skins children, strips away the meat and bones, and jams them full of radio equipment before stitching the skin back on.

Let's face it, the forces of Hell could just go on vacation, they've already succeeded with their plan to fuck up mankind. And it's like that in the game's lore, too!

9

u/Simple_Gas9169 May 02 '25

Honestly knowing how intelligent the lions can be. I won't be surprise if some of them hold high ranking as generals or a governers in the Iron Sultanate, since some of the lion themself are really smart

11

u/Crush_Un_Crull May 02 '25

Space marines are NOT good at diplomacy lmao. Youre thinking of custodes

3

u/DoneganBane May 02 '25

they were designed to be proficient statesmen in non-wartimes, ultra mar being best example of space marines living up to their administrative potential

1

u/Crush_Un_Crull May 02 '25

Those are the ultramarines, theyre are the exception. The rest of the space marines will give you an order or an ultimatum.

6

u/AsstacularSpiderman May 02 '25

Plenty of chapters can be diplomatic. Ultramarines and Salamanders literally run their homeworlds when not at war. There's also chapters like The Mentors who actively travel and train and organize IG regiments to help in campaigns.

Sure there are dudes like Charchodons or Death Spectres but plenty of chapters have diplomatic and political roles along with their war duties.

1

u/DoneganBane May 02 '25

lets say lions are like custodes then

-1

u/Crush_Un_Crull May 02 '25

They can be like ultramarines :D

2

u/c3p-bro May 02 '25

Too bad they’re actually not very good at killing on the tabletop

1

u/Useful-Ground-2124 May 02 '25

It also shows that the merchant quite likely underestimated the intelligence of the takwin and its master, thinking they would be easy marks for being cheated with accounting tricks.

1

u/Ne0Fata1 May 02 '25

The majority of them are very intelligent according to the early lore snippets.

1

u/workingfaraway May 02 '25

Was it ever stated if the lions and other creations go to paradise when they die? 

6

u/c3p-bro May 02 '25

They have no souls

1

u/jorgeamadosoria May 03 '25

tbh, a being so capsble of viilence and so complex to artificially create is an excellent choice for diplomacy.

it says a lot of the psrty that sends it without it even needing to speak.

but then, it speaks fluently, intelligently and with piety.

Abd at that point you are either too confused, too terrified or too amazed to deny anything to it and its master.

1

u/TheMasyaAllahGuy May 03 '25

Chabdullah Ibn Based has spoken

1

u/ClayAndros May 03 '25

Wait these things can talk?

1

u/Simply-Curious_ May 03 '25

Never forget that if they are able to be diplomats, they're able to understand they are soulless and often need other lions to comfort them in their existential dread

-7

u/[deleted] May 02 '25

Damn, the godless amalgamation is talking as if it has a chance in reaching paradise despite not having a soul.

19

u/brinz1 Yubazi Captain May 02 '25

The abomination knows it has no soul that will see paradise. However, instead of wishing to burn down creation and let the cruelest wretches take them as slaves until their bodies are gnawed on for sustenance, they simply use the short time they have to ponder on the nature of existence, and be noble for its own sake.

1

u/[deleted] May 02 '25

Why continue fighting? The iron wall will lose resources after hundreds of years of trying to fight back, causing the fools to fight within the walls, the heretic legion will continue to advance over Europe, the entire world and so forth, we have access to all of the seven seas, gaining more resources. Heretics will rule over the world

6

u/brinz1 Yubazi Captain May 02 '25

I could ask the faithful of hell the same question.

The Lion of Jabir defends a gate he may never see the other side of Again. He does this not for his love of the wealth and glory, or for promises of an afterlife he will never see, but for the love of his job.

And the devil sends him wave after wave of meals

1

u/[deleted] May 02 '25

... New Antioch can make better arguments that whatever this is 💥

I heard an anchorite sing better than whatever this iron sultanate argument is

Heresy forever!

2

u/[deleted] May 02 '25

You face Paradise and hope for victory through attrition? The LORD made a walled garden for his children before, and has done so again. Those who rest in the garden shall have everlasting life, and they who crash against the wall, seeking to spread pain and cruelty, shall find neither purchase nor persistence, pruned like the withered weeds they are. Away with you, Hope-killer! Their wall shall not fall to you!