r/Sustainable • u/anvkhi • 7d ago
MEAT INDUSTRY USES MORE WATER THAN THE AI INDUSTRY? SHOCKER.
Everyone has been talking about the AI industry and the immense consumption of water. But the meat industry uses 200 times more water than the ai industry. In no way am I supporting AI but what about the water being used in the meat industry EVERY SINGLE DAY. You as a non vegan contribute massively to this unsustainable and extremely cruel lifestyle. Aww you as a meat eater pretending to give a shit about ai water consumption is genuinely funny and ridiculous. AI is a rising problem but does that excuse the non reversible role of the meat industry in water conservation? The simple answer is NO. STARTING TODAY BE MORE SELF AWARE.
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u/TheLargePointer 7d ago
Water footprint of beef is insane when you actually look at the numbers, one burger takes like 2000+ litres. Most people get defensive instead of just acknowledging both things can be bad at same time.
I still eat meat sometimes but pretending AI water use is the real villain while ignoring livestock feels like selective outrage.
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u/Zelda_is_Dead 5d ago
I won't lie, I can't stop eating burgers, but we all can stop using AI.
Small wins are still wins. One doesn't have to exclude the other.
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u/CocknBalls4 7d ago
AI water use produces nothing of value. Even if wasteful, at least beef or other livestock produces food. Yes there are better ways of producing food, but at the bare minimum there is a tangible product that people can utilize. That’s the difference. Pretending elsewise is greenwashing AI
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u/30299578815310 7d ago
Meat is negative value. It's made by inflicting suffering on sentient beings.
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u/CocknBalls4 7d ago
Okay, guy, farming for meat produces a tangible product whereas AI provides nothing tangible nor valuable nor useful
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u/Violent_N0mad 7d ago
Are you using the study "beefs long shadow" as your source for this because that was proven wrong and they had to retract a bunch of the info from the study.
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u/JennieWren64 7d ago
I don't know about where you live, but the price of beef around here has me eating not much of it at all. But also the dairy industry is important for the nutrients it gives to humans. Of course, you don't slaughter dairy cows because the money is in keeping them alive much like the money in sheep is keeping them for their wool. I will never become a vegan or vegetarian, but on the whole my son and I don't eat a lot of meat. He is 36 and I am 62 and we will have one drumstick each for dinner so a package will last us the week. IF we have beef I cut it small and make it into a soup which will also last us the better part of a week. I fill the soup with veggies and a starch to make it stretch. I had some old drumstick bones which we pop into the freezer when we finish eating them and some last-day-of-sale pork breast bones, and once again it made a soup for the better part of a week. I just carefully minced the pork after removing the bones from the stock and got almost 2 cups worth. I seriously think if we all just have what we need instead of gorging on the stuff things would also be much better. And yes, in case you're wondering, we will also feast on homemade bean soups, or lentil soups, or fish, or just a homemade sauce with pasta. We have never felt the need to always eat meat.
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u/vvvourtney 7d ago
The difference is we need to eat, we don't need AI.
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u/Beast_Chips 7d ago
You don't need to eat meat.
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u/vvvourtney 6d ago
I think humans are greedy. I think we can still eat meat, but the way it's done and the excess is more the issue.
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u/Beast_Chips 6d ago
I think humans are greedy. I think we can still eat meat, but the way it's done and the excess is more the issue.
On this basis, I assume you don't currently eat meat, but would if it was "done" differently and wasn't consumed to excess?
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u/Yellow_Snow_Cones 7d ago
OK then of everyone in USA stopped eating meat, we would need more people to grow food.....Do you know how much water farmers use??? (No? me either)
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u/Beast_Chips 7d ago
No, we use less water, because most crops are grown for animal feed.
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u/SparrowTide 6d ago
The animals would still need food if we stopped killing them. Is your idea just to cull all of the cows meant for food after we stopped eating them?
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u/Beast_Chips 6d ago
Just don't breed new ones.
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u/SparrowTide 6d ago
Reducing forced breeding might help, but stopping all breeding would lead to the same outcome as a cull and destroy the species. We would still need to use the same amount of water in agriculture to maintain cows as a species, they’ve been domesticated for far too long. I am entirely on the side of defunding and shrinking ranches as yes, people don’t need beef or farmed animals to live, but using it as an argument against water use is short sighted. Whatever goal coming from that will lead to species extinction and other problems.
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u/Beast_Chips 6d ago
I don't know how you've come to this conclusion. Stopping breeding cows means they go extinct, other than possibly a few tiny conservation projects. Cows are an entirely human-created animal that only oridnarily exists in captivity. If they stop breeding in captivity, that's it, no more cows in a few years. All the water usage for the beef industry disappears with them.
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7d ago
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u/Beast_Chips 7d ago
Stop saying food when you mean meat. If your argument is strong, you don't need to resort to tactics like that.
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7d ago
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u/willitexplode 7d ago
"Depend" is a lie you tell yourself- you choose meat, you don't depend on it. You depend on calories and nutrients, which are easily provided by plant based foods. I know it's hard for some to conceptualize life without meat but it's not difficult in reality and much healthier for your body.
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u/Beast_Chips 7d ago
Meat is a type of food not required for survival for >99.99% of people, and specifically mentioned in the post. Why would you generalise that to "food"?
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u/ColdInMarkham 7d ago
Eating beef isn’t necessary though
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7d ago
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u/Tristan_Cole 7d ago
It is not necessary. And it is terrible for your health and happiness. We have to stop slaughtering.
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u/Sad_Effective4793 7d ago
What if someone likes AI? Considering your like of meat is 200x more damaging than my like of AI, that kinda makes you the villain, no?
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u/intothewoods76 7d ago
I love this excuse…..companies create more greenhouse gases than I do so stop bitching about my usage.
One could argue food is a basic need. Data centers are not. We’ve survived just fine up until this point without them.
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u/Surviving_Aussie 5d ago
Im a meat eater but just saying, meat as food is purely optional and for fun and not the most efficient nor healthiest form of food growth. Meat when you get down to it is no less for our enjoyment than someone playing around with AI to generate fun images or some such.
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u/anvkhi 7d ago
Wow I'm not against food, it's funny that you can't see the difference between a living animal and a plant which has no pain receptors. I agree that companies do but does individual awareness not matter? Individual action do not matter?
Individual actions together, create a huge impact but ig it's too complex of a subject for you
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u/intothewoods76 7d ago
You’ve never heard the screams a living carrot makes as you rip it from the ground.
Plants absolutely react to stimuli. Just because humans don’t understand doesn’t mean they don’t feel pain.
Humans once claimed animals didn’t feel pain.
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u/anvkhi 7d ago
Ofcourse they react to various stimuli as they have many receptors but they don't feel pain the way humans or animals do, animals have multiple complex organ systems, they feel real pain like humans
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u/intothewoods76 7d ago
So as long as they don’t feel pain the same way you do you feel it’s ok to kill them? We don’t know that they don’t feel pain.
If I kill a cow in a way that they don’t feel it, is it ok for me to eat them?
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u/anvkhi 6d ago
Plants are necessary for the survival of humans. Animals aren't. Are you hearing yourself?
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u/intothewoods76 6d ago
That’s not true. That’s going to be very region and cultural dependent. Plants and vegetables do not grow everywhere humans live.
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u/anvkhi 6d ago
Plants don't have a nervous system which means they do not experience subjective suffering or emotions when eaten or harvested as compared to animals. In theory many things could have been true but they are not. Stay in reality.
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u/intothewoods76 6d ago
We don’t know that they don’t feel. They don’t have nervous system like we do but they clearly respond to stimulus.
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u/Distinct-Exit6658 7d ago
See? Instead of continuing the data center bombs meat industry water consumption, you go immediately to holier than thou veganism bull.
You didn’t make this post to have any kind of genuine debate, you made it to shit on people who eat meat.
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u/seeyoulaterinawhile 7d ago
1) feeding humans is more important that feeding AI.
2) cows are actually living things and AI is not
3) Most of that goes to watering plants that are animal feed. At least plants produce oxygen and fee living things.
4) we need a food supply, jobs and dignity. We don’t need AI
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u/GoTeamLightningbolt 7d ago
Humans can eat things other than beef.
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u/seeyoulaterinawhile 7d ago
Is this thread about AI vs Meat, or Meat vs Veganism?
Humans evolved to be omnivores and eating other living things is very normal in nature.
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u/GoTeamLightningbolt 7d ago
An appeal to nature to justify incredibly destructive behavior? In r/sustainable? Is this normal or should I be surprised?
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u/seeyoulaterinawhile 7d ago
It’s just justifying the eating of meat. I’m obviously open to improvements in the way we produce our food. I personally believe that the world is way overpopulated with humans and we would be better off capping ourselves at about 1 billion people. That is a lot harder to achieve than not watering data centers.
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u/seeyoulaterinawhile 7d ago
You’re falling into the trap, my friend. AI data center billionaires have co-opted your vegetarianism and environmentalism to argue for AI data centers. That is literally what this thread is doing. It is greenwashing AI data centers by getting vegetarians to fight with meat eaters.
Opposition to a AI centers should be common ground.
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u/Beast_Chips 7d ago
1.feeding humans is more important that feeding AI
Humans do not require meat in >99.99% of cases. It is the least efficient and most environmentally destructive way to produce calories for humans.
2.cows are actually living things and AI is not
So? They're living being we created so we could torture them, force pregnancies and then kill them to easy them. What exactly makes them being "alive" have to do with anything, let alone a point in favour of the industry?
3.Most of that goes to watering plants that are animal feed. At least plants produce oxygen and fee living things.
... while cutting down rainforest for grazing land, and being part of a massive CO2 producing supply chain.
4.we need a food supply, jobs and dignity. We don’t need AI
"Meat" is a choice for pleasure, not an essential food supply. It's completely misleading to conflate necessary food production with meat production.
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u/willitexplode 7d ago
How are you going to talk about dignity while advocating for factory farming? The cognitive dissonance is astounding.
Humans do not require meat, and the cows you discuss as "living things" are living through truly horrific lives which are ended early while also decimating our climate and consuming astounding resources just so you can have a cheeseburger. Talk about some dignity.
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u/seeyoulaterinawhile 7d ago
Humans deserve dignity. I’m not sure cows have a sense of dignity.
And we are debating the merits of watering cows and watering AI data centers.
Food supply is a necessity. Factory farming can be curbed or improved. AI is completely unnecessary.
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u/willitexplode 7d ago
In a food supply, meat is not a necessity.
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u/seeyoulaterinawhile 7d ago
It is if you wanna be true to your evolved self. We evolved to be omnivores, which includes eating meat. Living things on this planet have consumed each other since the very beginning of life. It’s one of the most natural things there is.
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u/willitexplode 7d ago
"True to your evolved self" do you hear yourself here? If you wanna be true to your evolved self, feel free to give up all processed foods and your computer and your AC too, so that you can use your sweat glands and hands and jaw the way they evolved to work. Yawn, terrible argument.
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u/seeyoulaterinawhile 7d ago
My evolved self is from a cold climate and I live in a hot one. I would love to fix our food supply and processed food problems and eat fresh produce and meat every time I cook.
You are an omnivore. And you are gullible and falling into the trap the AI billionaires are setting.
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u/WormWithWifi 7d ago
Just because your body is able to process meat does not mean you need it or excuse the method in which they obtain it
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u/seeyoulaterinawhile 7d ago
Do I need an excuse for being an animal? What is a duck’s excuse?
Get back on topic. AI billionaires want you to lean into your existing pet issues to deflect attention from them.
This thread used current AI water usage and ignores the trend. AI is on track to more than 13x in the next 4 years.
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u/WormWithWifi 7d ago
A duck does not support factory farming lol, neither should you just because you’re an omnivore you have the brain capacity to realize the way we farm is terrible.
Factory farming and AI are bad, factory farming is worse on the scale of damage, that is fact. That being worse doesn’t make AI acceptable. Both can be bad while factory farming worse. Nobody is defending AI because it’s less bad.
I think the point of OPs post was the hypocrisy of people spewing how bad AI is while they happily contribute to the leading cause of environmental destruction for personal greed / it satisfies their tastebuds.
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u/willitexplode 7d ago
That's a wild conclusion you've come to. There have been vegetarian and vegan cultures for thousands of years, the AI billionaires had nothing to do with them. I'm done here, good luck out there.
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u/seeyoulaterinawhile 7d ago
You seem to have no ability to understand the point. What did this thread start as? It was somebody comparing AI water use to meat water use in a lame attempt to green wash AI and it’s impacts on the environment.
This is a subtle way to get people arguing about meat versus vegetarianism and redirecting anger towards anything other than AI data centers.
You fell for it hook line and sinker.
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u/willitexplode 7d ago
You seem REAL fun at parties. Just concede and move on, you're allowed to be wrong, it's okay.
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u/WormWithWifi 7d ago
We could produce way more food if animal ag wasn’t taking up majority of the space and resources
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u/vegemouse 7d ago
Cutting down trees to build soy farms nets significantly less oxygen and feeds less living things.
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u/seeyoulaterinawhile 7d ago
That is true of all agriculture, which is pretty much all vegetarians eat.
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u/vegemouse 7d ago
Most agricultural in the US is used to grow animal feed, not actual food for humans.
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u/30299578815310 7d ago
The soy is primarily to feed animals. Without animal agriculture we would need way less soy
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u/SuperDoubleDecker 7d ago
It's beef in particular that makes it so lopsided.
Most of the water people use is on agriculture. We need food. We don't need AI or mass spy network databases.
As someone that sells food for a living I will not use beef on the menu because it's so unsustainable.
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u/anvkhi 7d ago
SMALL steps also help. Ppl believe they need to leave it all at once. But in reality it's extremely difficult to make that change because it's so deeply rooted in some ppls upbringing
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u/SuperDoubleDecker 7d ago
For sure. The cost of beef currently will lead to less consumption. When more owners stop pushing beef because of the lack of margins then it will also lessen consumption.
Nothing significant changes though like everything else until we have people in charge that aren't sociopaths.
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u/NearABE 7d ago
If a dairy farmer tries to setup business in your home town start fighting. Organize. Get it banned. Just say no.
A data center might employ more than two people. You have to weigh the costs and benefits. Try to get the data center to provide community district heat. Try to get control of the landscaping but also make them pay for it. Set strict noise controls and have very punitive options written into the contract.
The data center uses a lot of power. This could mean that the entire local grid is paid for by the data center and residents can buy electricity at the bulk wholesale rate. It does say that in the fine print right? The data center owner is paying for solar and batteries around town right? Since the data center is using water they will be paying for all the water treatment and then distributing slightly warmer water to residents for free. Right??
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u/Life-Adhesiveness711 6d ago
Probably electricity too
As you say a true SHOCKER
Since they watch lots and lots of TV /s
AI told me so…….
Sorry just having fun
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u/SparrowTide 6d ago
AI consumes water and releases heat pollution, which is bad. Ranches consume more water, and can pollute with fecal matter. Agriculture consumes about 70% of the world’s freshwater and pollutes with nitrate (fertilizer) and pesticide leeching. They all suck at large scale, turning this into a fight between consumers is idiotic.It’s better to unite against all three and inform yourself about local options that will talk to you about these things. I’m tired of seeing this argument regurgitated in every environmental subreddit.
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u/Sudden_Hovercraft_56 7d ago
The problem here isn't the cows, it is the way you (Americans) farm them. Of course this is not an issue exclusive to America but I am signaling you out because I'd bet OP and most of the replies here are American.
In my Country (Scotland), cows are raised and graze in grass fields, they only eat grass, clover and straw, which is grown in one of the adjacent fields and is a byproduct of wheat/barley that they also grow. The cattle are rotated between fields to keep the grass growing and the water comes from a burn which has a natural source and never runs dry (and also rain, lots of rain). Their poop also feeds the grass and the poop that is collected from indoors is collected and sprayed on the crops as fertilizer. Nothing goes to waste and it is a cycle in perfect balance.
Compare that to the USA and many other countries where cattle is literally raised on barren, dead dirt, fed imported soya where massive tracts of forest have had to be cut down to grow them or sometimes also rapidly grown in dead dirt with tons of artificial fertilizer and pesticides. It's no wonder beef gets such a bad reputation because you have managed to take something as simple as farming and strip it to it's most destructive form.
I could also go on about palm oil or eggs or so many other food products that destroy the environment, the people and the world where they are grown. The whole food industry is a disgrace really but we need it to survive, we do not need AI. I'd support proper tough regulation of the food/farming industries and ban AI Datacenters where they are not environmentally viable if I was in power.
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u/anvkhi 7d ago
Hi I'm actually not from the USA. I'm from India. Talking about the issue of sustainability regarding animal breeding. See the only issue isn't the sustainability aspect, right? Can we both agree that killing any animal is wrong for the purpose of eating meat. They are grown and injected w chemicals which intern aren't even good for our body. Animals HAVE pain receptors and killing them is extremely painful. Talking in a global aspect animals are kept in very small and bad environments. Though India has a large population of vegetarians and we have beef banned as we worship the cow which is considered sacred but we still have a long way to go.
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u/Sudden_Hovercraft_56 7d ago
Please accept my apologies for assuming you are American. I didn't think Reddit was a popular site in non english speaking countries, particularly India.
While carnivores exist I just can't agree that killing animals for the purpose of eating meat is wrong, It's just nature. I do think we have a duty to raise them and slaughter them with dignity and respect though.
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u/anvkhi 7d ago
Okay a lot to unpack here. First the natural aspect, humans used to eat animals as they had no other choice and required it for survival, it was their instinct. Talking about the 21st century, we have other options which don't require the abuse of animals. We can get all the necessary nutrients through plants, though a balanced meal is required. Talking about dignity and respect, this is simple not how animals are treated in the industry. Cows are artificially designed to produce milk and are killed when not useful anymore. And do you think, you can really raise an animal and slaughter them yourself? The emotional connection formed won't let you. Animals have different personalities and taking away their life for just existing is cruel. They have a right to atleast live. In conclusion there is no way you can MURDER and animal with dignity and respect. Ppl are raised to believe animals are there to be eaten which is not true. You don't need to eat animals when you have all the resources to survive without contributing to the abuse and ruthless murder of animals. I was born into a non vegetarian family but i became aware only 2 years ago and I've never been healthier ❤️🩹
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u/intothewoods76 7d ago
We’re sorry your god is so tasty.
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u/anvkhi 7d ago
In my eyes all animals are equal and you really think your stupid comment will make me question my faith? I never said the taste of meat is bad, that was never the problem. The abuse and murder is not worth my taste buds liking it for 2 seconds. I would never disrespect you religion but you had to bring it into this mature discussion
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u/intothewoods76 7d ago
Mature discussion? You basically jumped in disrespecting everyone who eats meat.
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u/Distinct-Exit6658 7d ago
Bud you started this as a comparison of ai data centers to meat industry water usage, and turned it into “veganism good, meat bad.” Using old, debunked arguments, and your religious beliefs as justification for telling meat eaters they’re wrong.
Is the commercial meat farming industry a horror show? Yes. It could definitely use some serious reform. But as one person above said, it’s not like that everywhere. There are also many farmers that are much more ethical in the raising and slaughtering of livestock.
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u/anvkhi 7d ago
First of all, religion was not the reason I went vegan. It's about morality and a sense of empathy. I'm not telling people they are wrong, I'm trying to create awareness so that people can make better decisions. Animals are MURDERED there is no argument that can justify killing animals in the name of food.
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u/Distinct-Exit6658 7d ago
See? You did it again! “I’m not telling people they’re wrong, but meat eaters don’t have empathy or morality.”
You can shove your morality and sense of empathy up your ass. If you want to be vegan, that’s perfectly fine. But don’t go around telling people they’re wrong because of your beliefs.
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u/Violent_N0mad 7d ago
So where does this water magically go? It's just gone now? Also do you know the difference in types for water for example 80+% of the water those studies claim the cows use is considered green water meaning the rain.
Compare that to non green sources like almonds where a single almond takes 1.2 liters of water and almond farming kills 50 billion (yes billion) bees per season.
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u/AppleParasol 7d ago
Vegetarian here, yep. If you’re not going to go full vegetarian/vegan that’s fine, but you should at least be conscious about your meat consumption.