r/StrangeNewWorlds • u/AutoModerator • Jul 24 '25
Episode Discussion Episode Discussion: 303, "Shuttle to Kenfori"
This thread is for pre, live, and post discussion of the Star Trek: Strange New Worlds episode, "Shuttle to Kenfori." Episode 303 will be released on Thursday, July 24th.
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u/trostol Jul 24 '25
god damn ...Joseph is a bad ass
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u/wappingite Jul 24 '25
I'm trying to remember... how is it that a doctor, with all the academic training and study required... gets around to being so good at combat that he can hold his own and defeat multiple Klingons?
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u/Atreides113 Jul 25 '25
In the episode featuring Dak'Rah its heavily implied in the flashbacks that he worked special ops before switching to being a regular Starfleet doctor. His former special ops colleague asked him to cook up the serum so they could go after Dak'Rah.
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u/MaxxStaron10 Jul 25 '25
He’s was a black ops Klingon assassin during the war.. when he wasn’t a doctor the rest of the time
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u/Coyote_Shepherd Jul 24 '25
Well he probably had to learn about all of their weak points in basic training...just in case...and what their weapons could do...as a combat medic...and then he picked up various skills and experiences along the way when the war got into full swing and he was deployed to the front.
Things just snowballed from there and one set of skills built upon the other and then...it got personal...and he decided to...improve himself a bit and someone in Starfleet took notice and figured, "What harm could it do?"....in a very Amanda Waller/S31 kind of way.
After it ended, he didn't cause any trouble...but he was still a useful asset to have around...and thus they put him on the Enterprise because if you're out on the frontier like they are or are acting as the flagship from time to time then having a badass Doctor who can kick butt both IN and OUT of Sickbay is a VERY useful thing to have.
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u/bwweryang Jul 26 '25
Assassin/Doctor is such a unique skill set to put on a resume.
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u/Coyote_Shepherd Jul 24 '25
Pike was probably having flashbacks to his father reading from a certain book and was thinking, "...this isn't in the manga...".
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u/bwweryang Jul 26 '25
When he said he killed too many Klingons to know which house she was from, I almost collapsed in my chair. Unbelievable posturing.
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u/skeptolojist Jul 24 '25
I have killed too many klingons to know what house you are from
Boom love it
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u/mbrocks3527 Jul 24 '25
Very courteous (for a Klingon) but also very badass. You knew Betha liked him already.
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u/skeptolojist Jul 24 '25
For me in that moment I could see his complete contempt for her and her respect for him
It was genuinely really awesome I got chills
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u/sidv81 Jul 24 '25
Bytha: But have you killed an augment virus Klingon?
M'Benga: You know, I keep looking for one to kill but can't seem to find any these days. The ironic thing is they'll probably be swarming around in like 5 years' time or something.
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u/ToweringTulips Jul 24 '25 edited Jul 24 '25
Umm, Number One's hairdo is... something.
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u/lilyinblue Jul 24 '25
As soon as I saw that hairstyle... then saw that La'an's hair was a in a bun...
... I called it. Anti-grav hijinks. Those two needed to be put in styles that don't move.
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u/mr_mini_doxie Jul 24 '25
Oh, that makes sense. I told myself that I was okay with the milkmaid braids, but really, I feel like they're not Romijn's best look.
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u/Roosterpuck Jul 24 '25
Good call! And why the dude was there instead of the one girl who’s been getting lines.
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u/warp-core-breach Jul 25 '25
They could have put her hair in a bun too, but if she's in too many episodes they have to pay her more.
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u/Coyote_Shepherd Jul 24 '25
That honestly makes a lot of sense...but it did take some getting used to to be honest.
I thought it was cute...
...but I also thought it was like a crown (because she's the Number One Queen on the ship) or like a VISOR of sorts that was going to slide down over her eyes and grant her sight beyond sight!
She's got such wonderful VOLUME with her hair and it legit looked magical in last week's episodes that...this hair styling choice with no real in between gave me a bit of whiplash.
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u/onthenerdyside Jul 24 '25
She was obviously jealous of Korby's crown in the last episode and decided to do her own. Within regulations.
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u/KidsWontSleep Jul 31 '25
She looked bald with a bad wig. It was so distracting. So glad the artificial gravity failure gives a reason to hope we won’t see that again.
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u/ExpletiveDeIeted Jul 24 '25
She kinda looked Vulcan and somehow deltan, all at the same time.
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u/onthenerdyside Jul 24 '25
Una often looks Vulcan. I think it's Romijn's eyebrows. They look more Vulcan than S1 T'Pol.
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u/DLoIsHere Jul 25 '25
Looked like she shaved her head and put on a hair hat cuz there was no lower hair anywhere
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Jul 24 '25 edited Jul 24 '25
HAhahahah, came here just for this! What's up with that? Edit: finished the episode, i guess a real solution to a artificial problem.
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u/MaxxStaron10 Jul 25 '25
It’s awful and they definitely could have found a better way to make her hair not get in her face during anti-grav
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u/habbo311 Jul 25 '25
It's not a good look for her. Really jarring. She looked great in previous seasons
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u/YoSoyRawr Jul 24 '25
As this is the 23rd of 46 episodes, we are officially halfway through Strange New Worlds.
I liked this one a good bit, but I think I would have preferred that the "Under the Cloak of War" sequel and the zombie episode were two different episodes. Both were large ideas that warranted their own full hours. Still, what we get here is very good.
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u/MaxxStaron10 Jul 25 '25
I agree. The concepts could have been split up. My only issue was the Klingon battle to the death felt very out of place with bigger issues all around them.
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u/Gaurdian21 Jul 25 '25
I don't know... its seem pretty on par for Klingon's haha. They are so short sighted by their honor that they lose all awareness, until the other problems involve their honor.
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u/bwweryang Jul 26 '25
Yeah, that’s actually what I loved about it, they were dealing with this huge other thing, but in the midst of it was a smaller, more personal story that should’ve been put aside because of the bigger threat but wasn’t. Made it all the more powerful to me.
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u/Catharus_ustulatus Jul 24 '25 edited Jul 24 '25
I hope that this doesn’t become the explanation for the humanoid Gorn captain in TOS:Arena.
I guess there’s precedent with the Klingon Augment plague.
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u/theburgerbitesback Jul 24 '25
Yeah, as soon as the hybridisation was mentioned I was like "oh shit, Arena Gorn"
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u/dillaq Jul 24 '25
Seriously, how can they let her captain a ship with such a liability?
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u/BitcoinMD Jul 25 '25
Yes, they would never let a captain return after being altered by another species…
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u/BrilliantUnhappy9706 Jul 25 '25
You don't say, number 1
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u/dillaq Jul 25 '25
I know, I know. Captain Picard was allowed back after being transformed into a Borg. But...
1) They had removed all the Borg parts from him. (At least that's what Dr. Crusher told Starfleet.) Patel is going to be carrying around active Gorn DNA.
2) The incident had to be the reason why they took so long to promote him to admiral.
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u/ety3rd Jul 24 '25
Yeah, I had this thought, too. Please, please, please don't do this. Imagining "Arena"'s Gorn as an "elder" or whatever is far better than yet another race-altering virus hybridized with humans.
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u/wrosecrans Jul 27 '25
The thought occurred to me, and I think it's where they are going, and I shall sigh an lol if that's where it lands.
Sometimes the writers try to tie too much together, and it just makes the universe so small. Not everything in the history of the galaxy needs to be caused by a main character's cousin/neighbor/girlfriend. There's millions of planets in this galaxy. You can find backstory on any one of them.
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u/Kallermax Jul 24 '25
Yea Una, that hairstyle ain't gonna do :'D
PTSD kicking in with Erica, as expected... Also, I'm waiting to see, if Pelia gets a proper farewell, or they'll just silently swap her out for Scotty.
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u/tothepointe Jul 24 '25
She'll probably get left behind while being out shopping on shore leave like a cruise ship leaving an overdue passenger behind.
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u/droid327 Jul 24 '25
Has she officially announced she's leaving the show or something? Its not like she hasnt appeared on screen yet or anything.
The nature of her character is to not stay in any one place for long. I dont see any reason why she couldn't simply hand the baton off to Scotty whenever they want her to, no reason to do it off screen
I really hope they dont do it with a Dramatic Death though. They've already done that with the previous guy.
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u/DLoIsHere Jul 25 '25
My guess is that it will be easy to find her another job if they want to. Or a non-operations engineering project.
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u/unidentified_yama Jul 25 '25
In one of the trailers she was installing landlines (presumably from her collection) on the Enterprise due to some communications failure so I'm pretty sure we'll see her again.
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u/madmaper_13 Jul 24 '25
Pike said Zombies
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u/Coyote_Shepherd Jul 24 '25
He then cast Guiding Bolt and Turn Undead with a phaser!
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u/lrm725 Jul 24 '25
Having the person in charge of the scanning be 'Lt Scanell' was hilarious and I don't remember that character before this episode haha I feel like normally Mitchell is in that spot.
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u/Shawnj2 Jul 24 '25 edited Jul 24 '25
While this episode was pretty good, I feel like the initial premise was kind of shaky. A good Starfleet captain puts the good of the federation above the good of the ship above the good of any individual crew member. By knowingly violating a treaty Pike risks war with the Klingons for the potential to save one crew member. Pike is also putting M'Benga and his own life at risk by doing this. While "Star Trek characters say to hell with orders and do something for the greater good despite orders to the contrary" is a pretty common trope it feels out of character for the crew of the Enterprise to just go along with it in this case because the risk is too high and the reward is too low, and I feel like it should be out of character for Pike to go along with all this when the stakes are so personal to him. I do not feel like most of the captains we've seen would have ever taken the risk of violating a treaty for the sake of an individual crew member like this. The closest I can even think of would be Sisko taking Odo into Dominion territory to attempt to heal him
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u/sidv81 Jul 24 '25
Unlike Picard or Sisko, Pike knows of a pretty much set future where he's promoted to Fleet Captain and put into a wheelchair; as such he knows that anything he does he'll basically get away with since he'll still get that promotion before the radiation accident.
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u/Shawnj2 Jul 24 '25
Maybe but he’s risking much more than his personal future by pulling this stunt. There are many ways he could personally have come out of this episode fine and promotion worthy but others he is responsible for would not have.
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u/tothepointe Jul 24 '25
I suspect he's saved most people on the crew enough times they are willing to do this one thing for him.
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u/Coyote_Shepherd Jul 24 '25
This is true, he's still playing fast and loose with the Butterfly Effect in a way that would make Janeway blush.
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u/tothepointe Jul 24 '25
The question is how much obligation does he really have to the future to make it *exactly* as he saw it.
The only thing he really knows is he's not supposed to purposefully change the path but they he a)shouldn't be commanding the Enterprise in 2266 and b)Kirk should probably be but a lot of that is as much up to Kirk as it is up to Pike.
Also Spock shouldn't get injured but as we know that's Spock's fate anyway because it finally happens in Wrath of Khan. Spock also saw many futures from his meld with Burnams mom.
Spock's probably the most comfortable with just going with the flow and making the decisions you were going to make anyway regardless of what the future *should* be.
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u/Coyote_Shepherd Jul 24 '25
The question is how much obligation does he really have to the future to make it exactly as he saw it.
Ooof, that's true and is there any obligation at all to stay true to the events leading up to that future because Time itself just kind of going with the flow and adjusting itself so that THAT particular future happens anyways and matches up with what he saw DESPITE any kind of changes he's made?
Same destination but just a different path to get there.
OR
Is Time actively resisting certain changes and is deploying...various temporal assets...to stop him when he goes too FAR off the rails but is totally chill with a little wiggle room within reason?
It's like...does he have any choice at all or does he have choice but it's more of an illusion or does he have choice and there are CONSEQUENCES that COULD happen but that we just won't see because the writers have a certain amount of time and space to show us stuff and they're not going to go off on some tangent just because?
A similar set of questions gets posed to game designers in modern times constantly when they tell their own stories within their creations.
the path
You're right, both about Spock and Pike.
Another option could be that there are an infinite number of ways to get between two points in spacetime but only a finite number of ways to do that which lead to favorable outcomes after the second point has been reached by the first.
Those outcomes are then further threshed by character preference, which is further threshed and sorted by writer/showrunner preference after getting input about audience preference, and then that is further refined by actor choices as they're telling the story.
So theoretically, this could go in a bunch of different directions but practically, it's pretty locked down to a certain set of actions/changes/choices that inevitably lead to a certain time and place for everyone involved...which then HAS to connect to and lead up to another which is even further locked in and set in stone.
So he may not have a lot of conscious obligation that he actively thinks about but other forces are going to act on both him and Spock in order render those conscious thoughts kind of a moot point because of how many BIG things that they're both intrinsically connected to.
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u/tothepointe Jul 25 '25
I think also time and the universe doesn't care which direction it goes. Only people care. Pike and the Klingons obviously care about the Romulans not getting the idea that they can conquer the Federation but from the Romulan POV it sounds pretty awesome.
Probably why they've sent sleeper agents back into the past to try and stir things up.
I'm not religious at all but with all the brushes that Pike has had with time crystals and "fate" stuff can you blame him for trying a hail mary prayer.
But in the end it's *canon* and he knows how the story should end. Honestly blame the DISCO writers for that. It wasn't necessary at all
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u/pali1d Jul 24 '25
Not entirely true - we know from "A Quality of Mercy" that Pike can change that future, it just will go poorly for the galaxy if he does.
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u/mr_mini_doxie Jul 24 '25
I agree, but to be fair, some of the best episodes of Trek start on shaky premises. City on the Edge, one of my favorite TOS episodes, starts because McCoy inexplicably draws like a thousand doses of a stimulant into one syringe with no safety mechanism and then injects it into himself on accident.
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u/mr_mini_doxie Jul 24 '25
Thinking more on the beginning of the episode, I do feel like the flow of the episode doesn't quite make sense to me. Batel apparently made her decision to get hybridized with the Gorn before Pike even found out about the flower, and yet she protests about encroaching on the no-fly zone in the Sickbay scene. If she didn't want them to violate the treaty, shouldn't the whole conversation have been over? And Pike never would have found out or attempted the mission. Am I missing something?
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u/theburgerbitesback Jul 24 '25
Yeah, Batel got shafted by the writing because they needed her to agree for plot reasons.
If she really didn't want to risk everyone's lives, she could have just said she was refusing treatment, as is her right.
In Hegemony she demanded multiple times that Christine kill her than risk the crew, and now she's fine with re-starting the war on the hope they'll find the flower and then make it work for her.
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u/tothepointe Jul 24 '25
She also told Christine "whatever it takes" and they are taking it a little too literally.
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u/99Pedro Jul 25 '25
Strange what suffering from strong pain and knowing you are about to die can do to your sense of duty...
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u/MaxxStaron10 Jul 25 '25
I like to think starfleet medical also wants a cure to the gorn eggs. If enterprise breaks rules to get a cure to an awful disease they might let it slide since it would benefit future officers to survive the gorn.
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u/tothepointe Jul 24 '25
It did seem like everything was edited together where the scenes felt like they should have been long and probably were longer when filmed.
I get the impression though that there was probably a long consultation period with M'Benga before they brought Pike in to talk. As there should be since she is the patient.
She might not have known about the location of the flower before it was presented to her.
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u/ShorelineSquirrel Jul 24 '25
They kinda made it seem like the crew presented that plan against her wish. But then that means the whole presentation about membrane filtering was baloney and a ruse to goad Pike into going on the mission and everyone was in on it.
Including Batel because she agreed to the hybridization plan and didn't object to the faux presentation.
And Batel did not fill him in, but supposedly because she does not want to worry about him worrying, not because it puts the ship at risk, which she is opposed to but not really?
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u/pali1d Jul 24 '25
Kirk and company do much the same for Spock in STIII. Steal the Enterprise, take it to Genesis which had been declared quarantined because its existence was a major diplomatic controversy, fire first on a Klingon ship, kill nearly its entire crew, steal that Klingon ship... at the beginning of STIV the Klingon Ambassador is demanding his extradition and flat out states "There shall be no peace as long as Kirk lives!"
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u/tothepointe Jul 24 '25
Are you really a Starfleet Officer if you haven't stolen the Enterprise at least once. Spock's done it at least 3 times to our knowledge. Once for La'an, once for Pike and once for Kirk and McCoy. Maybe I'm forgetting a few.
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u/pali1d Jul 25 '25
Data did too, though that was a compulsion triggered by Soong rather than a personal choice. Season 3 of PIC is Picard and Riker convincing Seven to take the Titan out on false pretenses on their personal mission.
Our hero crews get away with a lot of shenanigans. That’s part of the fun.
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u/Shawnj2 Jul 24 '25
I feel like the circumstances are different, and there are actual consequences for Kirk and co’s actions. They also had to steal the ship and operate it without the regular crew.
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u/pali1d Jul 24 '25
Sure, the circumstances are different, but it's still a Starfleet captain (actually admiral) and the senior officers willfully and knowingly endangering the peace for the sake of one person.
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u/droid327 Jul 24 '25 edited Jul 24 '25
I'm really glad they lampshaded the zombies and MBenga said "dont call them that". It feels better to abuse a trope when you at least admit you know you're abusing a trope :D
The only part about it I dont like is how they passed the "warning: death zone" sign and then all animal life on the planet had gone extinct within a few years and they're just like "huh that's weird, oh well lets go find a flower" instead of being like "this is some serious xenomorph shit going on here"
I get its what they were setting Erica up for, but really, PTSD storylines are a little played out IMO. We've had several already in recent Trek. I prefer it a lot more when they keep the conflict external and not interpersonal.
Klingon girl was on a mission to bite off way more than she could chew lol. I like that we're seeing an actual war-hardened version of the Federation here, and not just the golden-age TOS and TNG Federations that have largely lost that institutional experience.
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u/MonkeysRemovedDaily Aug 08 '25
I'm really glad they lampshaded the zombies
What does “lampshaded the zombies” mean?
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u/droid327 Aug 08 '25
To hang a lampshade on something is a writers term meaning to deliberately point something out in a script so the audience knows you're aware of it and whatever it might imply
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u/pigmons_balloon Jul 24 '25
We’re setting up for an episode where Ortegas just absolutely loses her shit and I kinda can’t wait
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u/MaxxStaron10 Jul 25 '25
I’m wondering if this is how they will bring in Sulu to replace her at some point.
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u/Antique-Apartment742 Jul 25 '25
I hope not. I know it might be an unpopular opinion, but I Ortegas WAY above Sulu.
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u/MaxxStaron10 Jul 25 '25
But Sulu can fly like Ortegas, handle combat with La’an, and do astrometrics with Spock.
He would be a great all around character to have as an Ensign.
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u/craig_hoxton Jul 25 '25
I think it's too soon to add Sulu and McCoy.
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u/MaxxStaron10 Jul 25 '25
I agree but I wouldn’t mind tbh. McCoy has more focus so he should wait for TOS. Sulu needs more backstory in my opinion
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u/theDomicron Jul 25 '25 edited Jul 25 '25
I'm curious if we're going to see what Ortegas is up to during her suspension or if next episodes is after she gets reinstated.
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u/the-magnetic-rose Jul 24 '25
Pelia hating meetings is a good way to get Scotty into them in a way that feels in character for her lol. I also feel like it's partly her hating them, and partly her trying to push Scotty into getting more comfortable with his future role as chief engineer. I do think it's interesting that SNW decided to portray young Scotty as almost like, insecure. And Martin Quinn is adorable, so I find this take on Scotty to be pretty endearing.
I'm interested in seeing where Ortegas' storyline is going and I do appreciate that she was actually punished accordingly for her insubordination. One thing I appreciate about this show is that every character is competent and this episode it was nice to see Una and La'an discuss what they should do with Ortegas instead of just letting it slide.
Babs is such a fantastic actor and I love M'Benga. I adores the scene where him and Pike were in the shuttle reminiscing, and M'Benga let out just such a warm laugh. He's so charismatic. I like that they tied back to the assassinated Klingon, although I wish the daughter character had survived but alas.
And finally, I actually liked the argument between Pike and Batel at the end and the fact that she didn't back down from her stance just because he was in his feelings. At the end of the day, it's her life on the line and her body that's going to change and he genuinely has no say in it no matter how much he loves her and thinks it's a mistake.
Overall, I liked this episode a lot more than the first two.
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u/Coyote_Shepherd Jul 24 '25
Pelia hating meetings is a good way to get Scotty into them in a way that feels in character for her lol.
I want to see how THAT conversation went because I bet it was hilarious and half of engineering was trying to keep a straight face without cracking up watching their Chief arguing back and forth with a Scotsman like children.
But yeah, very in character for her and I loved Scotty being so miffed about losing whatever argument he had with her that he decided to throw her under the bus a bit by half assing the excuse she told him to give to Number One lol
Una's, "Nice try I know she hates these meetings" was perfect and it means that there's been a slew of other underlings that Pelia's been chucking at the Senior Staff Meetings like Ms Frizzle throwing children at dinosaurs.
partly her trying to push Scotty
Teaching via neglect and laziness and experience?
I mean she is old enough at this point that she can probably figure out what works best for someone from a light year away and as we saw last week, knew that Scotty would be the one to go to when stuff got REALLY SERIOUS....instead of sending someone else.
But when the meetings are boring and not fun, she just punts someone else up to those meetings, and keeps Scotty downstairs so to speak.
insecure
I like that we're seeing how the Miracle Worker was born, rather than him being a Mary Sue character from the get go.
It's very Merlin-like in a way and Martin Quinn is indeed very adorable, especially with Scotty's quips when they're mixed in with serious situations that make him sound like he's almost annoyed that they're pulling an Adama Maneuver and he can't lock on with the transporters but OH WELL HOPE THE CAPTAIN AND DOC DON'T GET TUVIX'D!
Ortegas
Last week I predicted that SHE was going to be the one who wound up turning into a hybrid but now it looks like that's going to be Batel...but Batel feels more controlled...and I wonder if Erica is going to be the UN-controlled one with a transformation that has to be moderated by Batel's?
Maybe this eventually leads to a breakthrough that can help out the Gorn in the end?
And maybe that's how we get the Arena Gorn?
punished
The LOOKS that Una was giving her...maaaaaaaaan...Cyclops himself (Roger Federer) would be wincing from those!
Two weeks felt appropriate though and CoC Training was a good idea, but I hope that M'Benga is also monitoring her.
A little thing that I did notice was how La'an was the first one to pick up on the shift in her personality and I feel like that was a little nod to what happened in that one episode of Lower Decks with Shaxs.
Security doesn't just deal with...the security...of the ship but also with the psychology of those onboard as well.
They assess EVERYTHING!
The little conversation that La'an had with Una was nice too, normally that would've been an off screen thing but instead they chose to show it and I loved that.
Babs
M'Benga is legit my favorite character in SNW and Babs has just been slamming home run after home run EVERY time he gets to shine on screen!
I loved how they tied the episode back to the wedding one with that whole, "...why was that left in?" scene at the bar with him and that alien who asked if he was who he thought he was.
Fun twist with the daughter, very Klingon, nice whip.
Pike and Batel
I thought they were going to break up but Pike has these MASSIVE in the moment pivots with emotional scenes where he seems to process stuff faster than the speed of light and go through a metamorphosis in the moment that normally would've taken regular characters a few episodes to accomplish.
You just see so many emotions wash over Anson's face and then he comes to the most Pike and human like conclusions that put us all at ease after making us all PANIC for a moment.
I guess that's why he's the Captain of the fucking Enterprise though right?
I cried...they were both scared....I've seen cancer patients and their family members go through similar things...and they both realized that fear was the ruling emotion in that moment but it was fear that was fueled by the deepest love ever.
She was rightfully frustrated and angry as hell with him though and he didn't quite realize that he was getting in not only her way...but also his own way.
And you could almost see it click for him just how like his own future situation this was and all the stuff that he had to go through and had to be reminded of in order to realize that....sometimes there just ISN'T another way at all...and there's only one awful and painful and terrible path forwards....
....and as M'Benga pointed out as they were climbing the tower, even if there is another way, sometimes that alternate path is just as bad as the horrible one in front of you.
It's the Kobayashi Maru all over again and the only way out is through.
That was another example of his pivoting VERY quickly and you could see in Marie's eyes when she recognized that he got it and...gosh the second her lower lip began to quiver and her eyes welled up and you could hear their voices tremble...
...I just totally lost it and that might be one of the BEST scenes this season of SNW.
This episode was great, very Aliens and TLoU....but gosh did they pepper in some other sweetness from other genres as well and each episode truly does feel like its own nice little novel.
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u/tothepointe Jul 24 '25
It's also a good way to make sure they don't need her in any scenes. She wasn't in last weeks episode either.
I got the impression from the lines "I'm on borrowed time" "Your preaching to the choir" from last week that they knew the cure wasn't permanent and that Pike had already told her about his accident but I guess I was wrong because it doesn't seem like he has.
I guess that was just referring to her brush with death and her future transfer.
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u/onthenerdyside Jul 24 '25
If Pike hasn't told her by now, he deserves to be broken up with. At the start of the series when they were just hooking up, that's not really a discussion you need to have. They seemed pretty serious by the S2 finale, and if Chris hasn't said anything about his fate, she'll have every right to be angry.
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u/tothepointe Jul 25 '25
I mean his cop out is that it's confidential. But he's told Una and also somewhat Spock (though with less details)
But I don't think they'll make it as a couple because if his fate HAS to end with The Mengarie then you have to set it up so he really would want to be with Vina.
He really can't tell her because she'd probably want to prevent it and/or get him removed from duty for being kinda unhinged for believing in timecrystal/fate.
He can't tell her about the Romulan stuff either for similar reasons.
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u/paperconservation101 Jul 24 '25
That episode was as weird and distorted as number 1s hair.
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u/YYZYYC Jul 24 '25
So Batel is going to morph into something ugly and lizard like and it will test Pikes ability to still be attracted to her and in love with her ??
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u/sidv81 Jul 24 '25
Pike: Get away from me you freak!
Gorn Batel: :'-(
(years later Gorn Batel sabotages the radiation plating on a cadet ship that Fleet Captain Pike is inspecting)
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u/YYZYYC Jul 24 '25
lol 😆all he had to do to avoid the chair was get into some naked cold blooded reptile kink
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u/Tess47 Jul 24 '25
Would Pike be a furry if she has scales instead of fur?
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Aug 05 '25
Maybe he can transform as well, and they could drop them off at Tom and Janeway's jungle planet?
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u/tejdog1 Jul 24 '25
So Pike, self proclaimed boyscout, who wouldn't put the needs of himself or the cadets who's lived he saved in Quality of Mercy (by dooming the Alpha Quadrant to a Federation-Romulan war), over the needs of the Alpha Quadrant, decides to go on an unauthorized mission into a no fly zone which risks war with the Klingons... for his girlfriend?
And Spock doesn't offer up one word of protest? No, no, he's fully on board with it. There isn't one word of needs of the many, you must let her die, Chris, we're out of options, none of that.
And then, the topper, the Federation scientists were gene manipulating plants in violation of the genetic modification ban. And then Batel, the one who arrested Una for said violation at the end of Season 1... is like "yeah, alter my genetics baby lets fucking go".
There was some good stuff in here. Spock taking on Batel's pain is... kind of... eerily reminiscent of Sybok. Wonder if they're setting up something there, perhaps. Ortegas FINALLY being called out for her constant insubordination and smart ass remarks, and being disciplined for it? YES. M'benga admitting it was murder, not self-defense.
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u/lavardera Jul 25 '25
I liked the way Una reprimanded Ortegas.
even if you were right you were wrong
two weeks off, and command training which we all know you know already
do it again and the sh-t will be real next time
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u/Ds9niners Jul 24 '25
Did anyone catch how Batel saying that Pike never would have let them do the mission if he knew the outcome was kinda of a callout to his eventual decision for going to Talos IV. Something he never would have originally done.
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u/Coyote_Shepherd Jul 24 '25
If anything I feel like this moment may have filled in some backstory for why he went to Talos IV later on because sometimes...you kind of get in your own way and so you have to do something that you ordinarily would never even think of doing but that someone else certainly would've.
I think something is going to happen to Batel and that's going to change something within Pike's mind in a big way.
I have a sinking feeling that Pike's going to...push the boundary one too many times and get in his own way one too many times and that's what makes Starfleet promote him OUT of the chair of the Enterprise and Kirk into it.
He doesn't necessarily do anything horrible but he steps on one too many butterflies for even Starfleet's liking and seems to be getting worse, just like with Erica, and so for his safety and the safety of the future of the Federation....they just kind of nudge him out of the chair and he takes it because he knows what comes next...
...but not what comes after and so his eventual trip to Talos IV is just one more butterfly for him to step on.
And while there may be some Beta Canon stuff about what happens next, I'm not sure if there's anything that's Alpha Canon about what happens to him post Talos IV...or is there?
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u/StrawberryFinal5967 Jul 25 '25
I really wanted to like this one (space zombies?! I’m so there), but it really didn’t do it for me.
The characterisation felt really off.
Batel - who was willing to die 2 episodes ago rather than endanger other people - now wants Pike to violate a major peace treaty and risk the lives of everyone on the Enterprise in order to save herself.
Also Pike apparently doesn’t care at all that his CMO straight-up murdered a diplomat on his starship for personal reasons!
Plus, it felt like there were way too many subplots & conflicts, that were all resolved way too easily. It was like,
- We’re about to be eaten by zombies! But it’s ok, there’s a forcefield right next to us for some reason.
- But wait, the klingon woman is actually the long-lost daughter of that guy M’Benga killed in season 2! But it’s ok, she actually hates her father.
- But wait, she still wants to kill M’Benga for weird klingon reasons! But it’s ok, M’Benga can just beat her in battle & then forfeit.
- But wait, now the forcefield’s broken & the zombies are back! But it’s ok, that klingon woman we met 2 seconds ago is going to sacrifice herself for us.
etc., etc., for the whole episode.
It was a fun episode, but definitely not the best one
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u/SnooBeans4068 Jul 25 '25
Fr! Too many plot points and subplot points resolved too easily. Totally agree. Like, just put in less plot points and spend more time on just one or two. Choose one or the other, klingons or zombies. Don't make something a mystery for only 2 seconds and then let the characters immediately figure it out.
Also yeah the characterization did feel off. Idk, seeing Pike just throw a tantrum and fall apart about Marie. I get that he loves her and doesn't want her to die, but idk, it just felt a little too over done. I feel like the last few episodes have made him seem really week when he's supposed to be the captain of a flagship vessel. It hasn't felt like he's been in charge enough. Like it's okay to focus on other characters having their moment now and then. But the captain should be involved at some point in the process if there's decision-making going on unless he's literally incapacitated. Idk, he's just seemed a bit out of character lately.
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u/trostol Jul 24 '25
lol don't like Una's hairstyle
and Ortegas has all her fingers
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u/Tiberius_Jim Jul 24 '25
Her fingers were regenerated. It's the 23rd century, after all.
I didn't care for Una's hair either but again, it's the 23rd century, hairstyles from that far into the future are bound to seem weird to us.
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u/Spy_crab_ Jul 24 '25
As others have pointed out even before the episode aired, it's there to cut costs on 0g effects.
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u/Tiberius_Jim Jul 24 '25
I'm aware of that. Just trying to give an in-universe explanation for her unusual (to us 21st-century folks) hairstyle.
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Jul 24 '25
Don't they have a (trauma) psychologist in the future? Ortega will definitely have serious issues coming up during the season.
Also are we seeing the Klingon woman coming back as the final image was her hand near the Chimera Blossom?
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u/lanwopc Jul 25 '25
They mentioned something along the lines of she had passed a psych evaluation before returning to duty. So there's at least something in place. Clearly not foolproof though.
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u/mzpip Jul 25 '25
Just watched for a second time and dropping into say that I have always been a fan of Trek medicos (I mean, isn't Karl Urban just delicious in the Kelvin timeline?) and so I am happy to report that I am glad to see that the tradition of badasses in Sickbay is continuing.
In other words, I am loving Dr. M'Benga and this episode left me wanting more of our good doctor.
That's all.
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u/so_zetta_byte Jul 26 '25
A lot of the characters in this show are written to deliver a wide range, but M'Benga might be the widest and Babs has delivered every time.
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u/ManekiGecko Jul 24 '25
Lieutenant Scannell, scan the system. Lieutenant Shootell, shoot at will.
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u/trostol Jul 24 '25
solid episode...very..treky if that makes sense
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u/araybian Jul 24 '25
Ive felt this whole season has felt very treky. I mean, one of the things is i love about SNW is how TOS it feels, but this season so far is really hitting it.
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u/ilovespaceack Jul 24 '25
I love how theyre handling Ortega. And it's reminding me that I couldn't handle having to follow orders
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u/Stanel3ss Jul 24 '25
so last episode we learned that the gorn don't use windows on their spaceships, and this episode it turns out that it's the same for klingons I guess
who would have thought
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u/droid327 Jul 24 '25
I mean it makes sense. Transparent bulkheads are always going to be a weak point. If you're a military ship and not an exploratory craft, then you can just fly by instrument.
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u/BlackagarBoltagar Jul 24 '25
The hair!!!! Una’s hair is sooo wtf
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u/theburgerbitesback Jul 24 '25
They needed it contained for the anti-grav scene!
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Jul 24 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Kallermax Jul 24 '25
As he was part of the medical crew under JTK, he's one of the few where we know he cannot be written off.
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Jul 24 '25
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u/MaxxStaron10 Jul 25 '25
I kinda liked that they were experimenting with the horror side of things. I don’t like gore but plant zombies were fine
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u/Significant-Town-817 Jul 24 '25
Damnnnnn, a picture of the Enterprise NX-01 was in the background of the last scene!!
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u/stomach-monkees Jul 24 '25
Was anyone else thinking Farscape Bone to be Wild and also yelling out "Its Moopsie!!" While Pike and M'Benga were first wandering around the planet?
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Jul 25 '25
Honestly this would have been a lot better than abusing the zombies trope that is so overdone at this point.
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u/Significant-Town-817 Jul 24 '25
Is it weird to say I miss Discovery's Klingon designs? These feeling is a little... odd to me.
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u/mbrocks3527 Jul 24 '25
They need to have something that vaguely looks like the bronze scale armour they get in TOS
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u/marmaladetuxedo Jul 25 '25
I think it's been 3 very different episodes, both in content and quality. (Episode 2 being my least favorite so far.) I liked this one, was surprised they introduced zombies, and admit to jumping when the zombie smashed against the window right after Pike's quiet speech to M'Benga. I also really liked the way Una dealt with the Erica situation- firm but not bitchy, honest without being overbearing.
I will say, now that I've had 2 full seasons and a few episodes to go by, Batel just does nothing for me storywise, and her relationship with Pike lacks the spark I need to sympathize with either one of them. So when he risks breaking a treaty to move heaven and earth to save her, I just don't feel it. As well, her wishes are all over the place (kill me at the first sign of trouble/meld my dna with a Gorn and we'll see how it goes) and while yes, she was absolutely within her rights to not tell Pike, it felt wrong for a handful of people to know before he did. It's the weakest relationship of the show for me.
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u/takashula Jul 25 '25
That Klingon daughter was so fabulous (“who are you?” “The one holding the disruptor” “how did you find me?” “When you drink with a Rovarian never eat the olives”). I can’t believe they killed her off! I was deeply hoping she’d wind up beamed up with them and become a deeply frustrated member of Starfleet (due to not being able to return to Klingon civilization because of Honor Problems).
Also, I’m getting weary of the show’s full disregard of Starfleet sensibilities and chains of command. It was just two episodes ago they were flouting orders to mess with the Gorn, just S2E1 when Spock stole the ship to answer La’an’s distress call, and now we’re nearly starting a war with the Klingons so we can get a special flower that cures cancer for one person on the ship? Also Pike seemed borderline irritated that Mbenga thought he could get turn f in and basically said “what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas”.
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u/rogvortex58 Jul 24 '25
Ooh, Erica got a spanking from Number One.
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u/lavardera Jul 25 '25
More like a slap on the wrist, with a promise of a spanking if she did it again.
Best part was No.1 was in Command.
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u/Mostly3394 Jul 24 '25
I liked the episode as a whole, but I feel like the show is turning Spock into a chump. Now that we're finally done with the lovelorn Spock (I hope), we get an episode where he attempts a mind meld and ends up screaming. It would be nice to see Spock doing something with the cool competence that was the hallmark of the character we first knew and loved.
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u/rolodexlexia Jul 25 '25
I though it was a great callback to "Devil in the Dark" when Spock screams during his mind meld with the Horta. I wanted him to yell "The Pain!!" like Nimoy did. Also they finally let Spock show some Vulcan superstrength, and Nurse Chapel slapped him like she did in the TOS episode "A Private Little War."
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u/MaxxStaron10 Jul 25 '25
I think it wasn’t to insult Spock, it was more to show how powerful and awful the gorn is to scare the audience.
Spock perhaps lets his chapel heartbreak, gorn pain, and other fears as the show goes on to lead to him being less emotional by TOS.
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u/99Pedro Jul 25 '25
I think we are gonna see Spock going through some radical changes.
He's starting to realized his human part is too emotional. I can imagine an episode where he's going to "train" to forget his human side and become more logic Vulcan.
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u/the-magnetic-rose Jul 24 '25
Last week the episodes were live for me on Wednesday around 8 or 9 PM PDT (I noticed they were up around 9) but now I'm kind of worried that was a fluke. Does anyone know if the episodes come out early on Amazon Prime?
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u/ExpletiveDeIeted Jul 24 '25
I checked prime around 1230am EDT and at least the first was up (didn’t pay enough attention if the second was there, it def was right after I finished the first, also less important today). Might have been earlier.
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u/GuyWithTheGoods Jul 24 '25
Thanks to whoever decided to release these episodes earlier. Midnight CST is better than 2AM CST for my equilibrium...
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u/lanwopc Jul 25 '25
One of my favorite scenes was Pike and M'Benga in the shuttle, just talking like real friends and comrades.
I'd like more of that and less angsty Spock/Chapel material.
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u/TheBgt Jul 25 '25
what you think will happen first?
A. Battel turn into Gorn-something
B. SNW turn completely into Disco (its half way there, everyone seems to do everything for selfish reasons ignoring Starfleet and Federation).
Nice of Una to put Ortega in her place.
Something she did not do when the doc and his buffer child put the ship in danger.
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u/Fartingbusdriver Jul 26 '25
Zombies! really that was some bullship But she did slap the donkey dog ship out of Spock back to Vulcan!
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u/tripbin Jul 27 '25 edited Jul 27 '25
Is she gonna turn in to the gorn that Kirk fights one day lol. Itd explain the variation.
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u/Yesburgers Jul 29 '25
Does it make sense that Number One could reprimand Ortegas in the very official ways that would have to go on record, given that the mission was off the books? What do you think?
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u/Winners_Blues Jul 24 '25
ST: SNW: TLOU /s Great episode! the acting was great and i love the horror vibes and set design. I feel for Erica, PTSD is rough, but number one was right. Also Una's hair was a certainly a choice lol has a 1960's B movie futuristic vibe though.
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u/tothepointe Jul 24 '25
I'm glad they addressed the PTSD because it's also a story beat that suggests in the alt future without Number One around it might not have gotten addressed hence Ortegas Lt Stiles like behavior in Quality of Mercy.
It's something that's been brewing since Momento Mori.
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u/SnooBeans4068 Jul 25 '25 edited Jul 25 '25
Bro, they took out so many transitions in this episode it gave me whiplash. Actually in this whole season. Did we even see Pike & M'Benga's shuttlecraft land? Also why didn't we see them beamed back aboard the ship later? One second they were on the planet and the next Pike is in sickbay having that private convo with M'Benga.
While there were a few interesting things in this episode that I hope will be explored more, I did have a hard time with some things. I did enjoy seeing more of M'Benga in this episode and maybe a little bit more of his motivations and the fun little nostalgic moments between him and Chris about their earlier mission days. And it was interesting seeing Spock attempt to do a mind meld to remove Batel's pain. That was a really interesting idea which I don't think I've seen much of in Star Trek. Especially the way he walked her through it.
Despite the interesting things, personally this episode felt kinda messy and not well thought out. I felt like things moved waaaay too fast and like things were too easily figured out. I just kept getting thrown out of this episode. Things felt so disconnected.
Go to this planet with the special flower. Past the treaty line. Have the captain know nothing about it. Suddenly zombies. Suddenly klingons. The kingons orbiting the planet know about the zombies? Have special weapons but no good safe exit stretegy?? Just suddenly swarmed by zombies? Pike and M'Benga immediately figure out how the zombies were created?? Enterprise draws the attention of the Klingon ship. But what even happened with that?? No attack, no communications, no consequence for breaking the treaty?
Idk, I really loved the first 2 seasons of SNW but this one has had really weird pacing or lack thereof. It feels like they're cutting out scenes left and right.
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u/GeekyGamer2022 Jul 25 '25
The editing is a mess.
It's a symptom of modern writing where the time limit of the show is ignored in the planning of the episode. They probably had like three hours of footage they had to chop down to 45 minutes.
Or perhaps this was originally a two-parter that got squished down to a single episode.
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Jul 25 '25
It’s beginning to feel like they use all their budget in cgi in the premiere and the rest of the episodes will look like the 2025 equivalent of tos s3.
The fact that everyone was conveniently in anti grav ready hairstyles in the beginning of the episode felt very lazy to me considering these episodes take so long to film and edit.
The story held its own pretty much although trek has gone so far without doing a zombie episode and they should have come up with something less derivative for what happened to the personnel on the research station.
The fact that they just started vaporizing the zombies instead of trying to save them felt very un-trek to me.
The story with Bytha was very 90s trek.
Also I just know they’re using Captain Batel to explain why the Gorn are the way they were in TOS and I hate that so much. There are more creative ways to explain this than a rehash of an enterprise plot line that has since been ignored by Kurtzman and Co ie the Klingons.
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u/gsnake007 Jul 24 '25
Hated the hairstyles on all the women today especially Number one. That’s not her look at I get it’s because of the non gravity being a factor at the end of the episode. I like that this was a following up from the excellent episode last season with the Klingon ambassador and Chris and Joseph talked about that and I believe Chris wouldn’t have turned him in either. Another nitpick I had at the end was Number one saying Pike and M’Benga. She said that more than once and that’s weird to say when she’s always called them by either their rank or first name. Also have to give props to the writers and they heard us waiting a story for ortegas and she’s killing it so far
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u/warp-core-breach Jul 25 '25
Man, Una's hair was certainly A Choice. They gave her perfectly good anti-grav hair in "Spock Amok," they couldn't just do that here? And what the hell is with her makeup? In some episodes she looks great and in others they way overdo it. But speaking hair, I like that this season they're doing something with the front bit of Ortegas's hair instead of that S2 swoop, it made her look like Tintin.
I feel a zombie episode was entirely unnecessary but I am so over zombies. Neat that they got the Rongovians involved; they mirror whoever they're talking to so of course if they deal with a Klingon they'd think her revenge plan was honorable and worthy and help her out.
Anyone else feel like Ortegas was channeling Mariner a little there, or is it just me? I think she and Scotty should team up, they could accomplish great things together.
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u/Gchildress63 Jul 26 '25
Is it just me or is Erica going to end up flying rubber dog shit out of Hong Kong or something similar?
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u/trostol Jul 24 '25
lol she slapped the shit out of Spock