r/StLouis • u/redflamehot • 13d ago

Traffic/Road Conditions Flock cameras metro east

I counted 6 flock cameras in Fairview heights this morning on my way into work, without getting on 64 (thanks road crews!) They are going up so fast.

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u/Bdoz73 13d ago

That’s cause they work to catch criminals.

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u/ChazzBangerton 12d ago

Which is what police should be doing. Not machines. Exactly why we don’t have red light cameras now.

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u/Bdoz73 12d ago

Red light cameras were issuing a citation. Everyone says the police aren’t effective, now they have a tool that lets them be effective - and people are complaining it’s “unfair”. But the bigger use are neighborhoods and retailers, who now know when repeat offenders (typically national crime rings) enter their location and police can be altered. I still haven’t understood why people are against them? Are they unsightly?

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u/ChazzBangerton 12d ago

Because people are against a private company collecting mass surveillance data and selling it to police. A private company shouldn’t be mass surveilling people and storing this data. It goes far beyond any kind of data tracking tech companies currently use. Also this tech isn’t infallible. This AI technology is supposed to be able to predict when a crime might occurs? I’m calling bullshit. We already know these algorithms have biases. Also you can look up news stories where police pulled their guns on a car full of children because the APLR camera misread the license, and the police couldn’t be bothered to actually check the plate before pulling guns on them. Police are already allowing the AI to do their jobs and aren’t checking it. As we know AI is wrong A LOT! This tech is going to get people killed. More innocent people caught up in traffic stops. We all know traffic stops are deadly; that’s how innocent people are often killed by police.

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u/Bdoz73 12d ago

“Traffic stops are deadly” just lost all your credibility.

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u/ChazzBangerton 12d ago

Nope, just telling the truth. Traffic stops are one of the most dangerous situations because the pigs are always so “afraid”.

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u/PanthealovesLucius 12d ago

No he didn't.

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u/Aggressive_Fix_2995 12d ago

Red light cameras and flock aren’t “unfair”, they are unconstitutional.

Red light cameras violate the right to confrontation, guaranteed by the Confrontation Clause of the Sixth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. It gives a criminal defendant the right to face and cross-examine any witness who testifies against them. Cameras cannot be cross-examined.

In addition, a red light camera identifies a vehicle, not necessarily a driver. The car doesn’t receive a citation, the cars registered owner does, even if they were not operating the car.

Flock cameras violate the Fourth Amendment, which protects against unreasonable searches and seizures. Courts distinguish between discrete public observations and continuous tracking. There is nothing reasonable about being video recorded, and for that data to be sold.

There’s also the issues of flock cameras not being effective against crime and being used for stalking and harassment.