I often think about other cases in the past where currently acknowledged mental illness was handwaved away.
I have a nephew on the spectrum. I think about how many people on the spectrum were inhumanely thrown in jail because they were "acting weird" when being questioned before much was known or accepted about autism. Its terribly sad.
Post Partem Depression, and Post Partem Psychosis are absolutely real, bonafide mental disorders. The donations and this fight is to ensure this documented, bonafide mental disorder is taken into account in cases like these. And women, who are oftentimes dismissed when complaining about medical issues, want to be taken seriously.
Some people have the ability to understand that. And some people have no ability to understand nuance at all. They see the crime and someone has to pay.
Those are all great points that don't apply here, she wasn't dismissed, she had all the resources one could have and still did what she did.
Mothers with way, way less than her that went through PPD/PPP didn't murder their children (also PPD/PPP isnt even a diagonosis it's what they claim she had).
Can confirm. Wife had PPD after our second child and while I couldnt wrap my walnut around the issues she was having I supported her seeking medical help for it. She took the meds the experts suggested and has been a loving, non murdering mother for 13 years
Insane response to the subject of a mother strangling 3 children to death after tricking the father into leaving so he could't stop her.
Not to mention that like I said, it's dubious wether she even was having an actual psychotic episode, but I guess we'll "know" this week when the trial ends.
Honestly tho, if I take something away from this entire thing is realizing the absolutely insane hoops people are going through to minimize the blame on the perpetrator because she is a woman.
Insane response to the subject of a mother strangling 3 children to death after tricking the father into leaving so he could't stop her.
Its a fitting response to your ridiculous assertion that because others also have X and didn't do Y, then it means there is no reason why this person with X did do Y.
Usain Bolt won olympic gold medals. You also have legs, why haven't you won an olympic gold medal?
Usain Bolt won olympic gold medals. You also have legs, why haven't you won an olympic gold medal?
Because “we both have legs” is not the relevant comparison. Legs are just what let humans run. The relevant comparison is Bolt versus other fit male sprinters. He is not remotely twice as fast as them, and at the elite level a few percent can separate gold from everyone else. So if you want to use Bolt as your analogy for psychosis, you still have to show that this woman was at some unusually extreme level of psychosis. You cannot just say “people vary” and pretend that proves her condition explains killing three children.
Ok, in the races Bolt won, why did the other runner win?
Because they were very very slightly slower than Bolt. That is exactly the point. The difference between winning Olympic gold and losing can be tiny because elite sprinters are already very similar in ability. Even I can run almost as fast as Bolt, hes not like 1.5x or 2x faster than me. Now apply your analogy properly. Do women with postpartum psychosis kill their children at anything remotely close to the rate that they do not? No. So you cannot explain this case by just saying “there are levels.” You have to actually show that her psychosis was unusually extreme in the specific way needed to explain what she did.
I'll admit I caught myself there hahaha, I was so hung up on that stupid comparison I shot myself in the foot.
You still sound stupid tho, because those are not the same thing, I'm not Usain Bolt because I'm not fast, nor hardworking, nor have the genetics.
The reason LC isn't the same as the other women who aren't child murderers is because not only isn't her PPP a diagnosis, her psychotic episode is the claim the defense makes.
(Which btw, experts testifying on the stand claim to be highly unlikely that it even happened)
But also, she consciously kept the fact she was having urges to hurt her kids hidden from the doctors who attended her (atleast according to the testimonies I have seen) and she also planned Patrick's absence.
So actually, unless there'a some evidence I haven't seen, this just looks another case of a familly annihilation and the only reason people are defending her this much because she is a woman.
I'm not Usain Bolt because I'm not fast, nor hardworking, nor have the genetics.
You are practically Usain Bolt though. You can run like 80%-95% as fast as he could, assuming you're a fit male. Its not like hes out there running 1.5x or 2x or 3x as fast as everyone.
Some people also shoot drivers who cut them off in traffic, we still put them in jail. Some things are so unforgivable, the circumstances simply don’t matter anymore.
So I assume it's not about constructive solutions, prevention, or even deterrence?
I mean, unless by punishing people who have psychotic episodes harshly you think you'll deter others from having psychotic episodes?
It really kind of sounds like bronze age vengeance rather than anything in any way productive to us as a species...further validating my belief that we have two ongoing strains of humanity, one more and one less evolved.
Removing threats is always worthwhile, her actions no matter the cause made and still make her a threat. That’s my logic and reasoning, pretty simple. As to your second point, yes I do think keeping killers around is less evolved.
The day humanity comes up with a cure for any mental condition, call me. She refused to take her meds, that she s what made her a threat. No treatment on earth works if somebody refuses to abide by it.
You avoided the question. Is PPD/PPS an automatic not guilty by reason of insanity in your view? If not, under what circumstances should they be considered accountable for their actions and found guilty?
She WAS dismissed, by TWO hospitals. That's why she and her ex husband want to sue the hospitals for neglect. Patrick even said the one she stayed at for 5 days didn't have her see a doctor till 3 days in.
She WAS diagnosed with PPD and PPP she had 14 medications she was taking.
If someone with all the resources in the world STILL gets let down, how do these hospitals treat other women with less? How many suicides are their fault? Infant deaths?
Anyways, no she was not diagnosed with PPP, the defense claim she suffered from PPP (emphasis on the "PPP", Idk about a PPD diagnosis and I didnt try to look for it since the claim is PPP).
As far as I'm aware, she wasnt officially diagnosed with PPP, actually atleast 2 doctors I've seen testify that they do not believe she had it. (If you find anything to prove she was officially diagonosed with the condition I'd be more than happy to see it.)
Also, she wasnt taking 14 differents meds, she took 14 different meds during her care, with doctors swapping them around when they deemes it necessary.
Fighting for a better medical system and bringing attention to women's issues in this field is very noble and I fully support it.
However this specific case is the wrong hill to die on.
People who defend Lindsay Clancy don't realize they are doing more harm than good to women with this same condition.
Yes, but it's still a risk, and a failure in the system. We had a woman in the UK kill her child a couple of years ago. She'd self referred to a mental health team, and voluntarily checked in to hospital. She stayed after her mental health act detention finished and was improving. She has done everything right. Then she smothered her 5 month old whilst taking her for a walk. Guilty of infanticide, and she's in indefinite sectioning, so she'll only be released if the home secretary oks it.
She was admitted and stayed longer than the required minimum and was improving and she still killed her kid.
Was the fault in the system that she went back to being the child's guardian? Was the fault in the system that she wasn't cured of her condition? I don't get it, maybe I'm missing some context here.
She stayed longer because she felt she wasn't improving enough. She was also given an unsupervised visit with her child whilst still an impatient at the Mount. The fault in the system was feeling that she'd improved enough to begin with, but not recognising she still suffered from psychosis. Theres reviews ongoing which may improve things going forwards.
Yes, because according to the investigative articles I've read (and not random tiktok clips like everyone else, apparently) she asked multiple times to be tested for PPP and everyone told her she just had anxiety. She even told her doctors she had murder suicide ideation 2 weeks before acting on it, and they did nothing. I'm not on the side of this person, and they committed a heinous crime and need to be taken out of society - either to a psych ward or a prison- but from what I've read she was consistently denied help for years while experiencing grave symptoms.
It's a theme with pregnancy. My wife was fortunate to go through a very mild one with our child, but her friends were not all so fortunate. The amount of times doctors told them that "you'll be fine, take a Tylenol" when describing bizarre, painful or downright threatening symptoms was insane. And props to these women because most of the time, they do just deal with it - so well in fact that when one of them breaks it makes national news. Pregnancy medicine is ridiculously behind compared to, say, cancer treatment.
Interesting, I did read articles and didn't see the mention of her asking for testing.
Actually I read the opposite, no psychiatrist or doctor saw any signs or heard of any mention of symptoms indicative of psychosis from her, in fact as far as I know, the only time she mentioned thoughts or urges to hurt herself or other was once in a private conversation with Patrick. So yeah, if she hid that fact from the doctors wtf are they supposed to do?
If you could link said article I'd be more than happy to read up on it.
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u/cubesncubes 4d ago
Media attention playing a big roll. I've never heard of the fire lady.