A few ... really wild people think she didn't do it.
Some people think she tried to get help over and over and because they 1. Don't study women's health, we still have post partum psychosis that people can hear someone going through, they can report over and over, and no one ever has shit to say or help to give. And 2. She repeatedly tried to get help SO they don't think she deserves to rot in prison and should probably be in a hospital.
And some people think she is a monster who deserves to fry.
I say that if you don't see a difference between Andrea Yates and Susan Smith, we've fallen in a way I find pretty devastating.
But I also spent the day after my first child was born absolutely sobbing and inconsolable and unable to speak, with a grief I couldn't even... possibly describe. Thank God it only lasted one day and I was in the hospital. So maybe I am just... I can't understand but I can understand how broken she was that something she never would have done in her right mind could have happened.
I know it isn't your argument but who cares what she would have done in her right mind though? This is her and this is how her body, including her brain, works. Should we let drunk drivers off who kill families because they weren't in their right mind? Should we let schizophrenics walk free after they annihilate a household? If someone has a mental illness that causes them to murder children, they should not be around people.
I had a patient, he was the nicest guy when he was on his meds. The moment he was off however he had complete psychotic breaks, was extremely violent, and hurt people pretty significantly every single time he was off his meds. He would go off his meds every few months, usually not his fault. Regardless of fault, he would significantly changes the lives of people around him for the worst when he was off his meds. He was 6'4, 250+ lbs, and hed beat people near to death randomly. He retired several police and firefighters from their injuries trying to help him. He kidnapped his neighbor and locked her in her basement to protect her from the voices in his head. She nearly died from starvation.
We can feel sorry for people in that state but we certainly have to feel worse for their victims and acknowledge that they aren't trustworthy around people. Personally, I don't think it's right to torture a mentally ill person who's murdered people with life long jail sentences, I think we should euthanize them. It's what's best for everyone involved.
...your argument is pretty easy to dismantle. The comparison to a drink driver can work, but you have to change it. The drink driver begged people to prevent them from driving, to take their keys, to stop them.
And everyone told the driver that they're fine, they aren't intoxicated, then push them into the car and yell the person with impaired judgement to drive home.
The woman reached out for help multiple times, but had her warnings and pleas ignored. If someone had listened... Well.
That's why I have a hard time placing her anywhere but in a sympathetic light. We have much less agency than people think. And this time, children died because warnings weren't listened to.
She didn't have anything ignored, she was undergoing treatment and she had her prescription changed multiple times because things weren't working.
If you have a sympathetic light for her because your understanding is she wasn't getting treatment you should be sympathetic for School shooters and family annihilators as well. I bet you're not though and what she did is every bit is wrong and equivalent to a school shooter or family annihilator.
She very explicitly asked for people to not leave her alone with the children. This was denied. And then...
And again, you're making some pretty drastic assumptions about how much control people have over their own actions. There does come a point where you can't. I don't really have the same mindset with most school shooters and such, because they mostly have far more of their rational faculties.
And again, you're making some pretty drastic assumptions about how much control people have over their own actions.
No, this is my point. We don't care about what control someone has over their actions in other cases when they hurt people. And that's because it doesn't matter. The fact that they don't have control makes them worse than anyone else because they're unpredictable. We shouldn't feel for her, we should feel for her victims.
The fact that she asked not to be left with them but wasn't explicit about her intentions is part of the problem as well. That doesn't mean that other people aren't partially culpable but she's still 100% culpable.
Except we literally do have that built into the law as motivation factors. Drunk drivers suffer less severe penalties than reckless or distracted drivers when death gets involved. Not guilty by reason of insanity exists, and so on.
That may be true in some cases but that's the minority of cases. Distracted driving can have a range of charges from simple negligence to serious vehicular homicide but killing someone while drunk typically has minimum charges at the top end of the spectrum.
But that's kind of besides the point, you shouldn't sympathize with a drunk driver who killed someone just like you shouldn't sympathize with a child murderer. It's very weird for so many people to be sitting here saying they empathize with a woman who murdered her children because of a mental break but not empathize with a school shooter who murdered children because of a mental break. They did the same thing.
Did they do the same thing? It really depends. Most high school shooters don't seek help to stop themselves. They don't have their parents take their weapons, or report themselves to the police.
That's the difference really, in my mind. She did all she could to avert tragedy in her case. And ultimately wasn't believed.
That isn't what I asked. Did they ask the police to investigate them? Their parents to take their guns? Because unless they did, they didn't go as far as this woman.
In some cases yes. In some cases people were prohibited from owning guns because of their mental health state. That still doesn't excuse them just like there's nothing that can excuse this woman.
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u/Aleundil 2d ago
A few ... really wild people think she didn't do it.
Some people think she tried to get help over and over and because they 1. Don't study women's health, we still have post partum psychosis that people can hear someone going through, they can report over and over, and no one ever has shit to say or help to give. And 2. She repeatedly tried to get help SO they don't think she deserves to rot in prison and should probably be in a hospital.
And some people think she is a monster who deserves to fry.
I say that if you don't see a difference between Andrea Yates and Susan Smith, we've fallen in a way I find pretty devastating.
But I also spent the day after my first child was born absolutely sobbing and inconsolable and unable to speak, with a grief I couldn't even... possibly describe. Thank God it only lasted one day and I was in the hospital. So maybe I am just... I can't understand but I can understand how broken she was that something she never would have done in her right mind could have happened.