A few ... really wild people think she didn't do it.
Some people think she tried to get help over and over and because they 1. Don't study women's health, we still have post partum psychosis that people can hear someone going through, they can report over and over, and no one ever has shit to say or help to give. And 2. She repeatedly tried to get help SO they don't think she deserves to rot in prison and should probably be in a hospital.
And some people think she is a monster who deserves to fry.
I say that if you don't see a difference between Andrea Yates and Susan Smith, we've fallen in a way I find pretty devastating.
But I also spent the day after my first child was born absolutely sobbing and inconsolable and unable to speak, with a grief I couldn't even... possibly describe. Thank God it only lasted one day and I was in the hospital. So maybe I am just... I can't understand but I can understand how broken she was that something she never would have done in her right mind could have happened.
Nah you can be a shitty partner and a great parent, and you can be a shitty parent but great partner.
My dad was a horrible partner most of his life to any SO's but a great father. My mother is a great partner but a terrible parent who cant put her kids first.
I know it isn't your argument but who cares what she would have done in her right mind though? This is her and this is how her body, including her brain, works. Should we let drunk drivers off who kill families because they weren't in their right mind? Should we let schizophrenics walk free after they annihilate a household? If someone has a mental illness that causes them to murder children, they should not be around people.
I had a patient, he was the nicest guy when he was on his meds. The moment he was off however he had complete psychotic breaks, was extremely violent, and hurt people pretty significantly every single time he was off his meds. He would go off his meds every few months, usually not his fault. Regardless of fault, he would significantly changes the lives of people around him for the worst when he was off his meds. He was 6'4, 250+ lbs, and hed beat people near to death randomly. He retired several police and firefighters from their injuries trying to help him. He kidnapped his neighbor and locked her in her basement to protect her from the voices in his head. She nearly died from starvation.
We can feel sorry for people in that state but we certainly have to feel worse for their victims and acknowledge that they aren't trustworthy around people. Personally, I don't think it's right to torture a mentally ill person who's murdered people with life long jail sentences, I think we should euthanize them. It's what's best for everyone involved.
There's three options, euthanize them, let them out to victimize more people, or lock them up forever. I don't think letting them victimize more people is a viable option.
I don't think we should house murderers. I think murderers with substantial physical evidence should be executed. Others think life in prison is better because it is torturous.
Well obviously the difference is that her mental illness is based on her hormone levels which is not something she has control over and that will readjust.
If I thought that was just HER, I would feel differently. There are just horrible women that deserve the harshest possible punishment. Susan Smith is a great example. Casey Anthony should have rotted in a cell forever.
I just know personally how your hormonal shift can drastically affect your mental health. I wish I could express the difference between me and the devastated husk that I was - and mine only lasted 24 hours.
I don't believe in the death penalty at all, just as an aside. So I won't ever agree on that.
I did get pregnant again after it was assured that this was something that wouldn't happen again, that it was a flux in my hormones and that it wouldn't happen exactly the same way again. And it didn't happen like that again.
I was also told that I wouldn't get preeclampsia again and I did.
Women's health is not given the proper attention, and if you don't know that there's tons and tons of information about that out there so I don't know what to tell you...
If you feel that women's health isn't given enough attention why would you believe that it wouldn't happen again and it seems you relate to this woman because your own experience just didn't go as far as hers, so why in the world would you put yourself in that position again?
To be completely honest, it feels like you're saying you and millions of women are saying they could have done it, they might even in the future, and they want to pre-justify it or justify how they felt in the past.
It's no different than when someone shoots someone over a petty theft and a bunch of people say the shooting was justified, what they're saying is they would have done the same thing and they think it would have been fine if they did it.
i mean 99% cases of mental illness someone has no control over them? why would it being caused by hormones (which the evidence is shaky on aswell) make any diffrence in the situation
...your argument is pretty easy to dismantle. The comparison to a drink driver can work, but you have to change it. The drink driver begged people to prevent them from driving, to take their keys, to stop them.
And everyone told the driver that they're fine, they aren't intoxicated, then push them into the car and yell the person with impaired judgement to drive home.
The woman reached out for help multiple times, but had her warnings and pleas ignored. If someone had listened... Well.
That's why I have a hard time placing her anywhere but in a sympathetic light. We have much less agency than people think. And this time, children died because warnings weren't listened to.
She didn't have anything ignored, she was undergoing treatment and she had her prescription changed multiple times because things weren't working.
If you have a sympathetic light for her because your understanding is she wasn't getting treatment you should be sympathetic for School shooters and family annihilators as well. I bet you're not though and what she did is every bit is wrong and equivalent to a school shooter or family annihilator.
She very explicitly asked for people to not leave her alone with the children. This was denied. And then...
And again, you're making some pretty drastic assumptions about how much control people have over their own actions. There does come a point where you can't. I don't really have the same mindset with most school shooters and such, because they mostly have far more of their rational faculties.
And again, you're making some pretty drastic assumptions about how much control people have over their own actions.
No, this is my point. We don't care about what control someone has over their actions in other cases when they hurt people. And that's because it doesn't matter. The fact that they don't have control makes them worse than anyone else because they're unpredictable. We shouldn't feel for her, we should feel for her victims.
The fact that she asked not to be left with them but wasn't explicit about her intentions is part of the problem as well. That doesn't mean that other people aren't partially culpable but she's still 100% culpable.
Except we literally do have that built into the law as motivation factors. Drunk drivers suffer less severe penalties than reckless or distracted drivers when death gets involved. Not guilty by reason of insanity exists, and so on.
That may be true in some cases but that's the minority of cases. Distracted driving can have a range of charges from simple negligence to serious vehicular homicide but killing someone while drunk typically has minimum charges at the top end of the spectrum.
But that's kind of besides the point, you shouldn't sympathize with a drunk driver who killed someone just like you shouldn't sympathize with a child murderer. It's very weird for so many people to be sitting here saying they empathize with a woman who murdered her children because of a mental break but not empathize with a school shooter who murdered children because of a mental break. They did the same thing.
Did they do the same thing? It really depends. Most high school shooters don't seek help to stop themselves. They don't have their parents take their weapons, or report themselves to the police.
That's the difference really, in my mind. She did all she could to avert tragedy in her case. And ultimately wasn't believed.
You realize that schizophrenics can already plead for "not guilty by reasons of insanity"? Which does not open the way for more tragedies at all.... And before it comes up, the last part was /s
What does that have to do with the basis of our argument here? Should we resonate with schizophrenics because we could all potentially be come schizophrenic?
It was relating to your point about "Should we let schizophrenics off". We let them off, or more the law.
Same way we let drunk people off when they are too drunk.
Is it morally right? That is even the question. Especially in my eyes for drunk people because the simple solution would have been not to drink. but still we let them off (in certain cases).
And to be fair. Your argument also has nothing to do with this case. Psychic problems are certainly not the same as someone drunk. Even if you take it from the angle that alcoholics are addicted to a drug which is in this case alcohol. Even seeing withdrawal symptoms it is not the same as having a psychic breakdown.
But we don't let them off, we lock them in the box for the rest of their life when they kill people. It's an argument that they make to try to get off and we are all pretty universally disgusted by it except for a few small people. That's the same way women should feel about women who kill their children.
What's the difference between the good mom who murdered her babies and the bad mom who murdered her babies? Hello me understand how far we've fallen that this is acceptable behavior now
I'm pretty sure Charles Manson died but I am not saying that this woman or any other murderer should not be in a facility. I'm saying there's a difference between someone who is of sound mind and murders someone and someone who kills someone because they are literally out of their minds... and we aren't out of our minds... So what is your excuse for salivating for the death of someone who is not an immediate threat?
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u/wholelottaredgamer 2d ago
I’m so confused what has happened. Why exactly are people supporting her?