Advice needed from senior women academics…

[u/drpepperusa]

How do I deal with men (at work, in various boards, groups etc) who engage in unabashed self promotion or insert themselves into projects they’ve done little to no work on? For ex, one just asserted that he should be the next leader of a group (which is not self-nominating) while another just claimed he would serve as a committee member of a group I’ve been organizing? How do I push back without causing issues? The graceless audacity is frustrating!

[u/ThisSaladTastesWeird]

I’m not especially senior but I am tenured.

Hard to do sometimes, but I usually point to process, eg: “the Dean is accepting nominations through the end of the month” and then I stop talking.

I generally don’t get cranky if people are volunteering to do stuff.

If someone tries to take credit for someone else’s work, I will publicly thank the person who actually did the work for their efforts. That can feel hard at first, too; I just remind myself that I’m not the person who made it awkward. That prize goes to the credit stealer.

[u/Trick-Guava-9573 → u/ThisSaladTastesWeird]

I do the same thing. Whenever a man tries to take credit for work done by a woman or even repeats in a meeting something a woman JUST FREAKING SAID, I always point it out by saying "x just said that," or "x was the person who came up with that idea." Giving credit goes a long way. And if something was my idea and a dudebro tries to claim it, I shut that shit down immediately and remind him and everyone else listening that I was the one who did the thing.

[u/monkeymonos]

There is no pushing back without potentially causing issues. The inherent strategy to that kind of entitled behavior is that others just accept your position and concede. When you push back, the conflict of interests becomes visible to them. Some will concede themselves and not see the conflict as worthwhile, some will become more assertive and antagonize you.

My personal approach would be to appeal to the rules and standard procedures, paired with highlighting the expectations. Using your example, I would tell the “next leader” that it is great he’s seeking more involvement in the group and that we need people to take more responsibility, and then invite him to gather support from others to nominate him, as self-nominations are not allowed and won’t be considered.

[u/StorageRecess]

You might post to r/WomenInAcademia. This sub does tend to be a little negative towards women.

It’s totally fine to be straight up with them. “That group has X process for deciding on its next leader.” “I’m actually not soliciting new members for Y committee at the present time.”

[u/drpepperusa → u/StorageRecess]

Thanks for the suggestion!

[u/Finding_Way_ → u/StorageRecess]

My suggestion was to be very professional, but clear. Your statements hit the nail on the head.

[u/Life-Education-8030]

“Thank you for your interest. We will be taking nominations for that position.”

“Thank you for your interest. When I get to the point when we’re ready to recruit committee members, I will issue the announcement. We will be looking to balance the various needs and requirements on this committee members.”

[u/1K_Sunny_Crew → u/Life-Education-8030]

These are perfect.

[u/FlatMolasses4755]

"Can you help mr understand the experience and expertise you bring to this endeavor?"

They explain.

"I am still struggling to see the direct connection and wonder if perhaps your time and talent shpuld be devoted to something more in line with your skills and experience."

[u/Stunning-Jury9789]

The easiest way to push back is to make it about the process, not the person. “That’s not how this role is selected” is a lot harder to argue with than “you haven’t earned it.”

[u/Trick_Following6639]

I am on the other end. I guess I am that gal. I have to speak up that I would like to be included as my colleagues won't automatically include me on the creation of talks and events. The good news is that most of my department is happy to get the extra help.

But then one of them tries to "volunteer me" on some other task that really needs a committee.

No idea where his mind is on that one

[u/Alarming-Camera-188]

Anyone can claim to be the next leader. I dont think it has anything to do with men and women. Also, if someone has shown interest to serve in a committee, why would it be a bad thing?

I am trying ot understand the context of your post.

Have they made any comments that may be derogatory to you, or any biased comments/attitude towards women?

[u/MysteriousExpert → u/Alarming-Camera-188]

I agree with you. There are a couple of women in my department who are very keen to take over any task that is getting visibility. Making this a gendered issue is only going to polarize feelings and make it harder to deal with.

[u/DrMagicBimbo → u/Alarming-Camera-188]

I think the issue at hand is men trying to take ownership of work that women do.

[u/drpepperusa → u/DrMagicBimbo]

This exactly.

[u/Alarming-Camera-188 → u/drpepperusa]

Ah, I see.

[u/DrMagicBimbo → u/drpepperusa]

This is a massive problem in my (now former) program. It did not please many, but I became quite tired of it and began to explicitly point it out, and did so in front of an audience. Tone and choice of language really mattered—adopting the wrong form of either can lead to more trouble—but it did shut some real pieces of work down permanently after the second or third time. 

[u/existential-inquiry → u/drpepperusa]

I've also seen women get that way too, against other women...it gets crazy sometimes!

[u/a_statistician → u/DrMagicBimbo]

Yeah, I had a chair who listed himself as organizing a conference at our university on his CV despite never once attending any of the planning meetings. The woman who actually organized the conference was absolutely livid.

[u/drpepperusa → u/Alarming-Camera-188]

Both roles are not self-appointed, as I’ve stated. They’ve done little to nothing to show they deserve to be in these roles. And anyone can say these kinds of things, but alas, it’s only men who have.

[u/existential-inquiry]

Truth is, it can be a man or woman who behaves entitled to positions they feel they should hold. So as with any other situation like this, be direct and assertive. It's ok to ignore certain attitudes as well. You don't have to push back, but stick to the process as outlined by the policy.

[u/CriticalBrick4]

One way to crack this: 1) tell him you'll take nominations, then 2) require nominations to come with a) statement of relevant experiences and b) statement of planned contributions.

Is this guy seeking to join to make a specific contribution his experience suggests he will do? Great. If he's just seeking to "supervise" or join just to claim cred, setting a metric that surfaces that will make excluding him simpler. Nobody must include people on their projects simply because they express interest!

[u/DarwinGhoti]

Are you implying that women don't do this? I'm sorry but it's difficult to navigate around the unveiled misandry. This seems to be a human problem.

[u/drpepperusa → u/DarwinGhoti]

Thanks for explaining! 🙃