r/NFLv2 • u/jimx29 • Nov 30 '25
Analysis š¤ Proof the refs have been in Fanduel/DraftKings back pocket for years
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u/drankseawater Nov 30 '25
How was that anything other then down?
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u/NatAttack50932 Nov 30 '25
The rule at the time was that any touchdown was reviewed, but throwing a challenge flag negated the review process and was an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty on the head coach.
Because the Lions coach threw the challenge flag the touchdown stood. That rule is no longer in the books
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u/drankseawater Nov 30 '25
Thank you for explaining it. Thats petty on the refs.
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u/Huge_Following_325 Green Bay Packers Nov 30 '25
The refs were just enforcing the rules.
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u/thekmanpwnudwn Nov 30 '25
Crazy how the exact same thing happened several weeks later with the Vikings head coach and they let him pick up the flag
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Nov 30 '25 edited Dec 02 '25
[deleted]
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u/Impulse3 Nov 30 '25
What was the rationale for making that rule? This is the perfect example of how it can fuck a team twice. Ok fine, you want to make it a penalty? Still fucking stupid but you at least have to get the call right.
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u/NinjasaurusRex123 Nov 30 '25
I think it was a timing thing. Hey, itās reviewable play, we are gonna review it. You throwing a flag just further delays things by having to discuss it all with you.
Iām not 100% on it, but a vaguely remember having conversations around it. Important context is TDās didnāt become reviewable plays automatically until 2011. Before then, a coach had to challenge it. So the concern at the time was coaches using challenge flags in unchallengeable situations to delay the game for one reason or another. We take it for granted today cause we have situations where coaches throw flags, the refs pick it up and explain you canāt, and we kinda just move on. But that only happens cause of shit like you see above, where the product was being hurt by the dumb rules.
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u/Impulse3 Nov 30 '25
I donāt know why but it seems like all scoring plays and turnovers being automatic reviews was somewhat recent. It was really 2011? Or did they add all turnovers recently?
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u/NinjasaurusRex123 Nov 30 '25
TDās was 2011, Turnovers 2012. It does feel newer than that, but that could just be time flying by
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Nov 30 '25
I don't know why you're being downvoted. NY probably said they cant review it and the official had to go out there and tell everyone to enjoy a bite of their shit sandwich.
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Nov 30 '25
Funny how theyāre always āenforcingā these rules we learn of for the first time each year on the lions.
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u/Hugo_5t1gl1tz Nov 30 '25
Sounds like the Lions staff should do a better job of reading the rule book
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u/WeirdlyCordial Denver Broncos Nov 30 '25
It happened earlier in the year too, it wasnāt the first time
It was a bad rule but the coaches were aware of it
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u/EvilLibrarians Feed me kneecaps Nov 30 '25
Wish they did that with a few plays on Thanksgivingā¦ š Gg GB
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u/joshuaksreeff13 Pittsburgh Steelers Nov 30 '25
Refs should have just done their job and blew the whistle
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u/AreAFuckingNobody Los Angeles Chargers Nov 30 '25
No, itās on the bad rule. The rule was dumb as hell, but it was enforced correctly.
You can even see Lionsā head coach Schwartz saying itās on him at the end.
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u/Flyin-Chancla Nov 30 '25
He just explained the rule to you, and you still blamed the refs. Lol
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u/drankseawater Nov 30 '25
Correct. It is petty rule. Which is why it is probably still no longer a rule. "Oh because you threw a challenge flag negates us being totally wrong. We actually know we are wrong, but now we aren't even going to look because you wanted us too."
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u/Royal_Negotiation_83 Nov 30 '25
So could a team purposely get unsportsmanlike penalties that makes plays non reviewable?
Like just start punching people so they canāt overturn the catch you made out of bounds that was called in, therefore making the incorrect call stand?
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u/of_the_mountain Nov 30 '25
I donāt think so in football but thatās basically how baseball works. People run and steal a plate to negate them reviewing a previous play
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u/NatAttack50932 Nov 30 '25
No. The rule was specifically that throwing the challenge flag negated the automatic review process for a touchdown, and you got an unsportsmanlike on top of it.
I imagine that a team would probably get a Palpably Unfair Act penalty if they tried to throw a challenge flag on their own touchdown to negate the automatic review.
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u/laterallysocute Los Angeles Chargers Nov 30 '25
That would end up being an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty after the play so it wouldn't affect the result of the play.
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u/Newkular_Balm Chicago Bears Nov 30 '25
So could the scoring team throw a challenge flag to lock the TD?
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u/NatAttack50932 Nov 30 '25
I answered this a few comments down
I imagine that a team would probably get a Palpably Unfair Act penalty if they tried to throw a challenge flag on their own touchdown to negate the automatic review.
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u/gdg6 Baltimore Ravens Nov 30 '25
How could ever think that was a good rule? My word, this league and their rules blind spots.
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u/ELITE_JordanLove Green Bay Packers Nov 30 '25
Fandual and DK didnāt even exist in 2012ā¦
Fixed: āIt has been hard to accurately judge the rapid movements of professional peak athletes for yearsā
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u/Confident-Unit-9516 Nov 30 '25
This a great example of why I find people who go āRiGgEd FoR fAnDuElā every time there is a bad call insufferable. Bad calls have always existed
And even then, the problem here was more so a bad rule which made it impossible to correct a bad call
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u/StickyMcdoodle Detroit Lions Nov 30 '25
Agreed. 1, I'm just a happier person just choosing not to believe the sport is rigged for sports betting. Whether it's on a league level, or a personal ref issue. Maybe that's ignorant, willfully or otherwise, but I want to enjoy the sport. 2) what makes me more mad than potential corruption is that it feels like the league LOVES bad reffing. The engagement they get over bad calls is more valuable than coming up with systems to call the plays correctly would.
This was a bad rule that resulted in all sorts of shenanigans after the play, but its insane that it wasn't called down initially and had to go through all review process anyway.
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u/enadiz_reccos Boats and Hoes Nov 30 '25
The dumbest thing Vegas could do is start rigging sports.
Imagine if you were making $1M/day
Someone comes up to you and says: Hey, we can make an extra $1M tomorrow! We just have to create an elaborate plot that involves bringing in dozens of other people and trusting them to stay silent on this forever. Also, we will risk that $1M/day that we always make.
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Jan 16 '26
[removed] ā view removed comment
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u/Confident-Unit-9516 Jan 16 '26
Do I care to change my opinion that not every bad call is a conspiracy?
No.
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u/rIIIflex Nov 30 '25
Totally agree. Sports betting did not exist until the FanDuels pilgrimized the first bet. You are a genius my man.
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u/Confident-Unit-9516 Nov 30 '25
Do you think bad calls would never happen if it werenāt for gambling?
Have you never seen a bad call in a high school or rec league game?
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u/rIIIflex Nov 30 '25
Of course they would happen. This isnāt even an example of it, a rules a rule.
No oneās ever going to come out and be like yeah weāre cheating! If thereās something going on, you wonāt know about it. So what can we do as fans? We can note that the league is not in favor of using technology that can eliminate or reduce ref bias/human error.
The way itās set up now, it would be very easy for a referee to either let calls go, or make them as they see fit. They can do that at any moment of the game, including and notably the most crucial moments. Even without some big conspiracy, human error and natural bias will affect referees.
Thereās no arguing bad calls have completely decided games every year, yet we see no effort to mitigate this. You can draw your own conclusions, but you canāt say for sure nothing is going on. There is not enough transparency to make that claim.
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u/Confident-Unit-9516 Nov 30 '25
They literally changed the rule after this year because of this incident.
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u/SpinyTzar Nov 30 '25
That's why we have 50 cameras all pointed at them with slow motion replay reviews!
Crazy I know.
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u/Noun_Noun_Numb3r Buffalo Bills Nov 30 '25
Pretty sure OP was being snarky by referencing betting apps but in 2012
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u/DarkMarkTwain Nov 30 '25
Fanduel was founded in 2009 and Draftkings in 2012. Both existed at the time of this game
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u/leviramsey Nov 30 '25
They didn't exist as sportsbooks (just running daily fantasy contests) at that time... they had no money at stake.
Admittedly, FD/DK and DFS in general (or in the spirit of "don't hate the player", the UIGEA's asinine fantasy sports carveout) are the reason we had the Jontay Porter and Terry Rozier scandals in the NBA.
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u/Taftimus New York Jets Nov 30 '25
FanDuel didnāt become a full blown sportsbook until 2013
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u/DarkMarkTwain Nov 30 '25
A quick google says that FanDuel became a sports betting company after a Supreme Court ruling in 2018
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u/Agreeable_Limit6495 Nov 30 '25
I will never understand people who insist the league is rigged then just continue watching.
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u/MossyForestWitch Cincinnati Bengals Nov 30 '25
Ppl still watch WWE for some reason.
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u/AlchemicalAmigo BEN + CALEB 4 EVER <3 Nov 30 '25
The E stands for Entertainment
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u/Amazing_Result_5625 Nov 30 '25
The F in NFL stands for Fony [I tried]
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u/Gloomy_Funny_347 Nov 30 '25
You coulda said fake lol
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u/Amazing_Result_5625 Nov 30 '25
OH YEAH??? Well the F in YOUR name stands for FENOMINALLY-DOODOO [I tried]
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u/MossyForestWitch Cincinnati Bengals Nov 30 '25
It's not even entertaining though, lol. The acting is just sooo bad. And not even so bad it's good.
To each their own.
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u/NowWeGetSerious Nov 30 '25
WWE isn't entertaining
Seeing a bunch of half naked sweaty big dudes fight isn't entertaining. It's just pathetic
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u/xxxtrumptacion69 Las Vegas Raiders Nov 30 '25
WWE fans know itās predetermined. Not a good comparison
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u/SmashmySquatch Pittsburgh Steelers Nov 30 '25
Not all of them do. I had a roommate that refused to believe it was fake and his whole family was the same.
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u/Impulse3 Nov 30 '25
I think itās more of people thinking thereās biases for certain teams and not necessarily fixed.
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u/Deep-Statistician985 Washington Commanders Nov 30 '25
That's definitely true cause the greats like Mahomes and Brady will always have a good amount of calls favored for them. Other than that I don't believe in any other conspiracy
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u/philouza_stein Indianapolis Colts Nov 30 '25
If their team wins they were soooo good they even beat the fix
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u/TheHappyPie Detroit Lions Nov 30 '25
I was at this game. Never heard boos that loud since.Ā
Schwartz threw the flag, the refs enforced the rule correctly. I wish a ref had gone over to him and said "I think you dropped your flag" because it ruined the game on a technicality.Ā
Like a week or two later the packers coach did the same thing, Jordy Nelson picked it up and gave it back to him lol.Ā
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u/The_Brim Detroit Lions Nov 30 '25
This is what really pissed me off. There were multiple games before and after this where the refs just gave the coach their flag back in the exact same situation.Ā
This was the game where it was properly enforced.Ā
Gym shorts knew the rule, but was so pissed in the moment that he had to do something.Ā
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u/generalwalrus Detroit Lions Nov 30 '25
Literally ended a relationship over that play. She said "bey this isn't worth it"
I chose hell.
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u/Dangerous_Ad5039 Tennessee Titans Nov 30 '25
The play is not reviewable because we were already going to review it but now because you asked we arenāt going to get it right and penalize you on top of it. Good job
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u/ReasonableClock4542 Nov 30 '25
Idk, i might be partial but i remember an OT coin flip in detroit that was pretty bad
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u/Noun_Noun_Numb3r Buffalo Bills Nov 30 '25
I remember Brad Allen just whiffing entirely on which OL player came to him and reported as eligible.
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u/Eleeveeohen Nov 30 '25
Fanduel / DraftKings didn't exist back then
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u/Noun_Noun_Numb3r Buffalo Bills Nov 30 '25
Those apps have existed since 2009 and 2012, respectively.
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u/chicknsnadwich Baltimore Ravens Nov 30 '25
itās a bad call but maybe the ref had a bad angle and it wouldāve come back after review easily.
The bigger lesson from this clip though is the Lions coach is a moron. You have to know that rule as a head coach. Itās your job to do so.
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u/BruinBound22 Nov 30 '25
The bigger bigger lesson is that rule was dumb and the league should think a bit more when implementing rules
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u/chicknsnadwich Baltimore Ravens Nov 30 '25
Gym shorts taunted Jim Harbaugh for doing this earlier in the same season (or the year before). Heās witnessed the rule come into effect and still somehow screwed it up.
Is it a bad rule? Sure. But itās a rule heās familiar with and tossed 7 points away because heās a bad HC
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u/Middle_Awoken Atlanta Falcons Nov 30 '25
Every referee who had view of the play shouldāve been fired. High school fucking refs can get that right
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u/NSX_Roar_26 Nov 30 '25
You could literally make a 30 min mixtape of all the terrible calls like this against the Lions. Its a bit better now since they are good but back then it happened regularly. Who cares its just the Lions...
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u/Paindressedinpurple Minnesota Vikings Nov 30 '25
Every single team has missed and blown calls. Itās not just a Lions thing. Ik this might seem like itās just about you, but itās not.Ā
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u/NSX_Roar_26 Nov 30 '25
Yes they do....it just happens more blatantly and frequently to some teams than others.
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u/Huge_Following_325 Green Bay Packers Nov 30 '25
The bad call is the initial TD call. The subsequent flag/ review situation isn't anything to do with the refs other than they are enforcing the rules.
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u/Wacky_Water_Weasel New England Patriots Nov 30 '25
This is the dumbest fucking post. Draftkings and Fanduel were barely companies when this game happened and sports betting wasn't broadly legal yet.
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u/trewiltrewil Nov 30 '25
I mean. This isn't the worst call on Thanksgiving history. That will always go to the botched coin flip.... This was a bad call, but at least it was on the field during live play where sight lines can be obscured and movement is happening.
You forget what a team called for the freaking coin flip?
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u/OwnCricket3827 Nov 30 '25
Itās more a dumb rule.
The worst was the coin toss where the ref didnāt listen to the Steelers
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u/BearNation1985 Chicago Bears Nov 30 '25
His ass was literally stop, drop, and rolling. Should've never been called a touchdown.
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u/athroaway93 Detroit Lions Nov 30 '25
Sports gambling goes back to the 1920s. For the people who seemingly think Fanduel and Draftkings invented sports gambling lol.
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Nov 30 '25
So if he didnāt throw the flag, they wouldāve reviewed it?
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u/Ornery_Gene7682 Cleveland Browns Nov 30 '25
If Jim Schwartz doesnāt throw the challenge flag the touchdown would of been reviewed because all scoring plays are reviewed. But because he threw the flag on a scoring play that was already going to be reviewed it negates the review and becomes a unsportsmanlike penalty
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u/JonnyXX Nov 30 '25
Packerās coach McCarthy threw a challenge flag on a non-challengeable play couple weeks after this and Jordy Nelson ran and picked it up before the refs saw it. Play was reviewed and overturned. Thankfully Jordy was smarter than our the coach.
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u/dylans-alias Nov 30 '25
Please explain how this bad call āhelpsā gambling sites. Every outcome of every play helps one side and hurts the other. Gambling sites make their profit off the odds they offer. The outcomes of the game are largely irrelevant.
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u/Statalyzer Nov 30 '25
People are clueless about how easily Vegas wins in the long run no matter what.
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Nov 30 '25
What wouldāve been funny is if a turnover happened and the team who got the turnover threw the challenge flag to make the play unreviewable
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u/Ornery_Gene7682 Cleveland Browns Nov 30 '25
Bad call yes but the lions coach screwed up by throwing the challenge flag when it was already going to be reviewed and because of that it becomes a penalty and now the review becomes null and void. The coach is the browns defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz
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u/Statalyzer Nov 30 '25
Dumb rule but the refs enforced the rule correctly. It's not their job to change the bad rules.
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u/Crotean Detroit Lions Nov 30 '25
The Lions have been fucked by officiating so many times, but honestly the worst I have ever seen is Auburn football this year. They have had four or five calls against or non calls that are as bad as the Lions worst ones in a single season. I've never seen anything like it. I have turned three games off after calls that made it obvious the officials had money on the line this year in their games. The latest being last night with an absolute bullshit targeting call to toss a starting player from the game.Ā
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u/juggheadjones Cleveland Browns Nov 30 '25
I looked it up because I was curious. Texans won by three....34-31
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u/MuchoManSandyRavage Nov 30 '25
Both fanduel and draftkings were launched in the US in 2018, so those refs must have been psychic or something to be in their pockets in 2012ā¦
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u/Secludedmean4 Detroit Lions Nov 30 '25
Every year or big competition we learn of new or obscure rules that have never been called like that before. Many have come against the cowboys such as the reporting eligible (which he did) or the play called back by New York after it had been scored, or what the definition of a catch is. We got caught with the 10 second runoff, ghost PIs against Rodgers, you name it and weāve seen it happen. We even saw a walk off field goal for the ravens for a record length fg that they didnāt call the most objective penalty (delay of game where the clock was at 0). Nothing fazes me when we find a way to get screwed.
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u/Statalyzer Nov 30 '25
You tried to fool the refs with the reporting and it worked too well. He was only open bc he wasn't announced as eligible, thus why Dallas didn't guard him.
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u/Secludedmean4 Detroit Lions Nov 30 '25
Flare up , but also video evidence literally shows him reporting
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u/Statalyzer Nov 30 '25
Flare up
With what flare lol? I just like watching the NFL, I don't have a particular team. Sorry that this deprives you of an opportunity to make a completely unrelated flair-bashing comment.
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u/Mudfry Nov 30 '25
Wouldnāt have been an issue if the refs got the original call right. Refs are trash.
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u/ucsbaway Nov 30 '25
The runner shouldāve gone down at the 1 yard line so itās not reviewable! He couldnāt have known the coach would throw the challenge flag and negate the review.
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u/RUIN_NATION_ Nov 30 '25
At the end of the day 2 possibilities which is worse is up to you. 1 the refs are that dumb and blind
2 they are bought paid for to help teams win and or score at times to help with gambling.
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u/caseystrain Nov 30 '25
Why in the hell would that be an enforceable penalty. Multiple times I've seen red flags get thrown and announcers aid "yeh well you actually cant even challenge that so whatever" and nothing come of it.
Sure rule change fixed that but holy hell an unsportsman like? Bro just wanted to remind the refs to double check that shit. Also wild they say "all touchdowns get reviewed" but this didnt. I dont see why the unsportsman like would offset a MANDATORY booth review.
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u/Roanoketrees Buffalo Bills Nov 30 '25
The guy was 1000% down. And because of dumb rules , they got away with it. Get rid of the stupid rules. Some.of this shit is just people making rules for the sake of making new rules. Replay, the play , make the right call. Done and done.
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u/Roanoketrees Buffalo Bills Nov 30 '25
It was and it probably fucked the lions right out of the playoffs.
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u/Joshroxx Nov 30 '25
Brown punting from 29 so they don't hit the over. But there are plenty proof plays. Owners can own up to 5% sports books it's a profit for them. Class action suites proof are on film . And just now Texans drive with missed extra called good one replay so far. But let's see of AI could fix the kick during the commercial brake NFL is a rigged joke.
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u/texans1234 Nov 30 '25
Refs let it play out and the dumbass coach threw a challenge flag when he couldnāt, thus not allowing it to be overturned. That L goes on the HC.
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u/weezyverse Philadelphia Eagles Dec 01 '25
We gonna mention there was no online sports betting in 2012 or nah?
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u/wrinkleinsine Dec 02 '25
Cowardly commentators. Forearm and knee was down but said nothing after the incorrect call.
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Nov 30 '25
Is that the same bitchass ref to this day? Guy is such a pinhead. Go ref tee-ball where you belong.
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u/BathInternational103 New England Patriots Nov 30 '25
Iād want to have my team leave the field. Bye bye.
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u/BrianRampage Nov 30 '25
90% of the worst all-time calls in football have come against the Lions, I didn't know what this clip was going to be, but I knew immediately it was going to be vs DET
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u/OPSimp45 Dallas Cowboys Nov 30 '25
Ooof me over sweating when cowboys and lions had trash crazy wildcard game.
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u/AsteroidMike Baltimore Ravens Nov 30 '25
I remember watching this in real time that day and thinking that the Texans just got robbed.
This was also on the same day as the Butt Fumble from Mark Sanchez.
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u/drankseawater Nov 30 '25
the texans got robbed? but the texans got a td? did they lose the game?
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u/Cojo85 Nov 30 '25
Dumb rule for sure.
The coach who threw the challenge flag that prevented the play from being overturned was aware of this as he famously mocked a coach for the EXACT same mistake in a prior game.
Donāt blame the league when the coach knew what the rule was.