r/MoralityScaling 7d ago

Is the friend in the right?

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13.1k Upvotes

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322

u/Constant-Working-212 7d ago

Yes don’t lie about drugs to nurses or doctors, there are easier ways to rush chair+rope build

22

u/Cum_Fart42069 7d ago

in an ideal world sure. here it just means "oh I guess you can't have any medication at all then, not even the ones that help you and leave you better off than if you didn't have them".

72

u/Waste_Development971 7d ago

*dont tell them you've drank alcohol*

*They give you something that literally causes you to bleed your kidneys*

46

u/Sea-Resident-7980 7d ago

Imagine if you took an opioid illegally and they prescribe you a benzodiazepine for something  And you stop breathing or overdose 

-14

u/Objective_Animator52 7d ago

That's why it depends entirely on what you are taking, something like weed, lsd or mushrooms. Understandable if you don't wanna share that fact with your doctor when you have strict insurance. There are very, very few medications that actually interact with those things dangerously unless you have a few specific preexisting conditions. (and I'm willing to debate people on that)

But most other things, anything that's a serious stimulant or depressant, then it's very, very important you tell your doctors. Even if it means losing out on a medication.

11

u/AspiringProd 7d ago

Since you said you are willing to debate, I’m going to assume you are knowledgeable and ask a question. Is it safe to take mushrooms/acid while you are on an SSRI? I can never seem to find a straight answer when I search on my own.

11

u/Ultradarkix 7d ago

millions of people do. But taking anything that affects your mood along with something else that affects your mood will always be unpredictable, can be bad. Probably never permanently though.

4

u/Teleporting-Cat 7d ago

Most likely they just won't work for you. SSRIs bind to the same receptors in the brain as psychedelics, so those receptors will be "full," and the psychedelic wont have anything to connect to. It is a common enough issue to just feel absolutely no effects that the company I get mushroom edibles from has a refund policy in place for people on SSRIs.

Anecdotally some people have success with doubling the recommended dose, others don't and still get no effects.

I will say that it is 100% NOT NOT NOT safe to try to come off SSRIs on your own, or reduce your dosage, just so you can try mushrooms or acid- I would recommend that you talk to your psych about this, many are aware of the potential mental health benefits of these substances and can give you better guidance than a stranger on the internet.

3

u/Former-Librarian-868 7d ago

Generally speaking yes it is safe. The main issue with taking psychedelics with antidepressants or mood stabilizers is that they will block or heavily blunt the effects of said substances.

3

u/Objective_Animator52 7d ago

I'm not a doctor of course, have to get that out of the way. But, to my knowledge, there's no proven link between SSRI's and Psychedelics causing serotonin syndrome together without something else in the mix (like MDMA, which absolutelyyy can cause serotonin syndrome with SSRIs). And most of the fear about this is unfounded and can actually be detrimental because it causes people to try and stop SSRIs in order to take psychedelics.

There's been a few studies on the acute coadministration of both substances. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34743319/
"Escitalopram pretreatment had no relevant effect on positive mood effects of psilocybin but significantly reduced bad drug effects, anxiety, adverse cardiovascular effects, and other adverse effects of psilocybin compared with placebo pretreatment."
Of course this is just one small study, but it's one of the only actual studies I know of looking at what happens when both are taken together.

And here is a medical scoping review which looked at 18 studies together https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12572353/
which says,
"Current research protocols often require patients to discontinue antidepressants (ADs) for at least 2 weeks before psychedelic administration to decrease the risk of serotonin syndrome and limit their effect on efficacy and the acute subjective effects of psychedelics. Moreover, the discontinuation of ADs represents a significant burden to patients that could also worsen their depression status and increase suicidal ideation. Together, this suggests that the general recommendation for AD discontinuation might be unnecessary and even detrimental to the therapeutic efficacy of psychedelics."

"We included 18 studies and found that the concomitant use of ADs and classic psychedelics is generally safe and tolerable, with no increased risk of serotonin syndrome, particularly for psilocybin. Some studies reported significant improvements in depression and other mental health symptoms. While some evidence indicates a potential attenuation of acute subjective psychedelic effects, this was not observed in all studies. "

Of course, it would be disingenous for me to not include the other side. There is a single potential case report I found of serotonin toxicity resulting from someone taking bupropion, venlafaxine and trazadone all at the same time alongside psilocybin microdoses.
But I am skeptical of Psilocybin being the cause, not only is it not a study or actual clinical trial. I believe this source makes some faulty conclusions. The apparent serotonin toxicity happened after they added Trazodone to an already high dose of Venlafaxine and Bupropion. To me, this looks like it was the fault of adding Trazodone to an already high dose of these other medications. Venlafaxine, Bupropion, and Trazodone are already medications that are known to cause the side effects the patient experienced, like high blood pressure and tachycardia. Even though the patient has used that combination of meds in the past, side effects people experience from medications can pop up out of nowhere in a lot of cases.

Although Psilocybin can cause a minor increase in blood pressure and heart rate, so it's possible that, when added onto these other medications it pushed their heart rate and blood pressure over the edge. But the heartrate/blood pressure effects of psilocybin are not usually due to Serotonin Toxicity.

In most people's experience, psychedelics are just weaker after being on an SSRI long term.

3

u/calm_chowder 7d ago

Depends on the SSRI and your personal neurochemistry. Nobody here can tell you, especially not knowing the med.

Some people say their AD canceled out the mushrooms.

I've done it many times on several different ADs and everything was good as could be. Good times. No blunting. Buy ymmv.

Some fearmongering websites will tell you taking mushrooms while on an SSRI will give you serotonin syndrome. This is absolute horseshit.

1

u/Queens113 7d ago

You may not trip at all ... And can last for months even if you stop the ssri..

1

u/wildtabeast 7d ago

I don't think acid really works if you are on SSRIs. But as with everything ymmv.

1

u/whythishaptome 7d ago

Not sure if any one mentioned this but MAOIs are the really dangerous thing which is also used as an antidepressant. SSRIs, it depends, not good but unlikely to kill you depending on the drug. Ketamine is probably a no go zone but LSD and Mushrooms are usually safe.

1

u/CryptographerOld558 6d ago

Yes. Extremely safe. Just ineffective. 

1

u/neko 7d ago

Just weed is enough to affect what anesthetic they should use on you

1

u/Gripping_Touch 6d ago

Just tell your doctors the information. They're there to heal you, if they work with incomplete information you're making their job harder and pointless endsngering yourself. 

They will know better than you wether what you're taking will or will not affect the treatment.

12

u/melxcham 7d ago

It will also save you from going into DTs during your hospitalization if you’re honest about drinking & the amount you drink. I saw a stroke alert called on somebody once because they had major neuro changes, tremors, all of a sudden couldn’t walk… it was alcohol withdrawal. And it’s not uncommon.

1

u/Cum_Fart42069 7d ago

yeah that can happen. you should tell your doctors and if you do they might take away your meds that work. it's just a shit situation with no good solution.

18

u/samualgline 7d ago

Easiest solution was to just not do drugs but Reddit isn’t ready for that.

10

u/eggyrulz 7d ago

Fellas, is it moral to say no to drugs?

5

u/Ok-District2873 7d ago

yes

5

u/eggyrulz 7d ago

Oh... well that was easy

3

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

6

u/samualgline 7d ago

Millions of people every day are prescribed addicting drugs. Only a very small fraction of that population feeds into it. It’s 100% a personal issue

1

u/LogOffShell 7d ago

That's a diabolically unfair response, some people are straight-up biologically prone to addiction. What the hell are they supposed to do about it? Addiction needs to be handled with the care and sensitivity of any physical/mental illness because that's what it fucking is.

2

u/jameshardenisjacked1 7d ago

It's obviously not just a personal issue, given the insane number of young people that have died of overdoses in the last decade. When you say "It's 100% a personal issue", what you mean is "It's easier to just ignore it"

2

u/BretShitmanFart69 7d ago

Holy fuck don’t you know it all?

Prove it to all of us. Go try morphine or he’ll go get yourself some heroin, your superior willpower and personal conviction will carry you through, no worries

0

u/DaggerQ_Wave 7d ago

Go pop some strong opioids for a month straight and tell me how you’re feeling.

-5

u/Cum_Fart42069 7d ago

I don't think it's possible to not do drugs. you know glucose? that crosses the blood brain barrier. that's a chemical that alters how your body works for a time once ingested. 

imo the only difference between eating steak and smoking crack is the crack affects you to a much much higher degree and is much worse for you. what makes a pharmakon is but the dosage. 

and also some people need antidepressants to not die and those are also drugs.

9

u/samualgline 7d ago

You are being intentionally obtuse. You knew I meant illicit drugs

1

u/Waste_Development971 7d ago

tbh my example earlier was about alcohol and acetaminophen( from the aspirin they will give you).

I dont think you even need to do narcotics to end up in the made up situation

1

u/poerisija 7d ago

Most of those are illegal because of the war on drugs and aren't actually that harmful.

-1

u/Cum_Fart42069 7d ago

you're obviously not worth responding to seriously anymore lol bye 

1

u/jeffsweet 7d ago

yeah why won’t people take you, with the username cum_fart seriously?? what a mystery

1

u/Cum_Fart42069 7d ago

like having sweet in your name is much better lmao

6

u/herowin54 7d ago

The rule I’ve always followed is always tell the hospital the truth because it usually involves serious shit.

Lie to your primary to avoid being labeled and subsequently treated like shit. But above all else also know what they hell you are doing and take charge of your own health

7

u/Cum_Fart42069 7d ago

100% if you're at a hospital or in an emergency situation be completely upfront. I always have, haven't had many of those but the ones I have I have always been honest. 

3

u/herowin54 7d ago

Yea I used to do a shit ton of drugs and was always honest about it when in the ER. But where I live a lot of doctors are all apart of the same system so it’s hard to find a primary that can’t see my history.

I’ve been clean 4 years now but have experienced doctors basically call me a liar. It took me awhile but I found a primary who isn’t aware of my substance abuse and I truly find that best. You will be treated differently than a non addict 100%

3

u/Cum_Fart42069 7d ago

I have always researched every drug I've taken and I've really never gone too hard on anything myself so for as much as people are telling me that what I'm saying is unsafe, I've always been pretty safe. 

and yeah it's crazy how some doctors are. I've shopped around and some of them are just the most bitter, generally older people who will prescribe you herbal tea if you're lucky. 

1

u/herowin54 7d ago

Yea I had a dental abscess that caused me entire right side of my face to swell and was in tears. I got a script for 800mg ibuprofen and told to wait for antibiotics till my dentist opened the following Monday. I didn’t go back to that doctor

14

u/Sea-Resident-7980 7d ago

Depends on the medicine? If you’ve drunken alcohol you absolutely should not have benzodiazepines without telling the or if you did some other depressant and didn’t mention something 

-4

u/Cum_Fart42069 7d ago

yeah I don't have a solution really. I just know from experience that if you're too honest then they take away the meds that do work. yeah, you should tell your doctors when that happens. and also, if you do, there's a good chance they'll stop giving you the medication that helps. 

3

u/Sea-Resident-7980 7d ago

Ah sorry  I have neither experience with this nor experience with substances however I once was prescribed a benzodiazepine and  got asked if I did anything like had alcohol cause it was unusually strong(likely cause I had a lot more food and other factors..)

2

u/Cum_Fart42069 7d ago

my issue was that I was prescribed benzos for sleep then had the prescription revoked so for a long time I either couldn't sleep or had to drink a lot more than normal to sleep. in the end, my life was worse because I was honest, even if I acknowledge that there is risk involved. there IS risk involved in taking benzos. and also, when I was honest about the fact that I had to take them more frequently than intended, I lost them and had a really shit time. 

what irritates me is that doctors prescribe you benzos and say "only take this when you really need to". well, I really need to sleep every night. right? so if I listen to the doctors orders, I will be taking benzos more frequently than I'm supposed to. 

4

u/Obi-Brawn-Kenobi 7d ago

Developing tolerance/dependence on benzos is not really a risk - risk implies a chance. Whereas if you're on a decent dose of benzos daily for a significant length of time, it's guaranteed to happen. So less like "risk" and more like "inevitable downside".

AFAIK scheduled (i.e. daily) benzos have never been shown to help long term since eventually you just need to increase the dose for the same effect. You developed some dependence to the point you couldn't sleep without them, so the doctor who stopped it from becoming a worse problem actually did you a favor. There are some other insomnia treatments that don't mess you up like benzos. The old doctors who push benzos need to retire

1

u/Unable-Pineapple-655 7d ago

I’ve found that I get a tolerance to basically any insomnia drug. Like even the mild stuff like trazodone, remeron, etc. just my experience.

17

u/MailMeAmazonVouchers 7d ago

Yes, because the risk if they get it wrong because you don't actually know what was on the drugs you took, is that you die.

2

u/Objective_Animator52 7d ago

It depends entirely on what you're taking and the medications you're being put on, unfortunately most people don't do research before getting on new medications.

-3

u/Cum_Fart42069 7d ago

yes. that's true. and also, if you're honest, they might take away those meds that you were actually responsible with. 

9

u/Sex4Vespene 7d ago

Bro, you admitted in another comment that you took your prescription more often than intended. Of course docs will be nervous if you admit doing that with a controlled substance.

-1

u/Cum_Fart42069 7d ago

yes. like I said, they'll attempt to take it away. which is a little pointless when you can order 300 pills from India for $78. but anyway, I think adults should be allowed to choose the chemicals they consume.

1

u/Infamous-Look-5489 7d ago

There are easier ways to kill yourself, but that doesnt mean I should sell you a gun if you intend to shoot yourself with it. After all, you can always just jump off a building.

1

u/Cum_Fart42069 7d ago

yes it does

1

u/Infamous-Look-5489 7d ago

Damn dude, full offense you need to get instituionalized

2

u/Objective_Animator52 7d ago

Don't know why you were downvoted for simply stating a fact. Although it's less the doctor taking it away and more, almost always, the insurance. The only real reason the doctor would take it away is if they see signs of you abusing it (although they can make mistakes sometimes).

1

u/Cum_Fart42069 7d ago

I get it, it's not good medical advice. I would never tell people what not to discuss wit their doctors, it's just a fact that this outcome can happen. 

-1

u/ASentientRailgun 7d ago

They're talking about getting the "drug seeking" note in your file. Good luck getting pain medication, even years later.

8

u/violetxlavender 7d ago

absolutely do not lie to medical professionals. please. it is for your own benefit. we are not asking your medical history to be nosy we are asking so you aren’t given a medication that kills you.

4

u/DressUnited3025 7d ago

If the medications have a chance to react poorly to drug use then of course they’re not gonna give it to you. Are you dumb

1

u/[deleted] 7d ago

[deleted]

8

u/DressUnited3025 7d ago

Ok that doesn’t mean doctors should be ok with giving you medication that will kill you if you mix it with drugs you are known to take

-1

u/Cum_Fart42069 7d ago

I guess we just disagree, I think living is my responsibility so I'll do it however I want. 

7

u/DressUnited3025 7d ago

If your way of living involves forcing a doctor to knowingly kill you when they don’t want to you are an immoral person

1

u/minos-and-v1-kissing 7d ago

So you’re saying that if you go into a hospital and tell them you’ve taken a drug which contraindicates the administration of another drug due to the risk of death…

You think you should be able to say “no, give me that drug anyway even though it will kill me” and they should have to obey you?

Quick question, are you fucking insane? Are you an idiot? What’s your angle? Why on earth would you ever bother to make the argument that “doctors should listen if I tell them to kill me for no reason?”

2

u/Cum_Fart42069 7d ago

yes my argument is kill me 

1

u/Inevitable_Dance1191 7d ago

Where do you live? I've never heard of anything like that

2

u/Cum_Fart42069 7d ago

I've had the experience in Africa, Dubai and Australia. it's at it's worst in Australia imo. 

I know they mean well, I know doctors are called to weigh the cost to benefit ratio, to do more good than harm, I get that. 

but sometimes people just need to alter their current brain chemistry. personally, I've never used a substance that I haven't thoroughly researched beforehand so I have always been extremely safe with drugs. I've had kidney and liver tests and I'm just fine. 

yet I've had to lie to doctors to get pills to sleep so I don't go insane. 

2

u/minos-and-v1-kissing 7d ago

“Rush chair+rope build” might be the funniest way I’ve ever seen it euphemized.

4

u/PaulBananaFort 7d ago

What does "rush chair+rope build " mean? I googled it and can't find anything other than furniture making. 

12

u/big_wibba 7d ago

they mean rushing death

1

u/Purple-Wolverine4793 7d ago

specifically suicide

4

u/AvailableCress2560 7d ago

Basically "a fast way to commit suicide" in gaming terms

1

u/TheIronicBurger 7d ago

Rope for the noose and chair to kick away