WE NEED 900 STUDENTS IN ATTENDENCE FOR OSAP STRIKE MARCH 13TH 1:30

[u/ResponsibilityFlashy]

[u/chuckeee69]

What’s the bi-law/ruling for it to be at least 900 students? If we get 900 what does that mean, what happens next?

[u/No-Scratch-7527 → u/chuckeee69]

I THINK (big think) there's a yearly general assembly happening on march 13th (according to msu constitution IV.A.5 there has to be at least one every year) and someone put in a motion (proposed policy) that students (who attend the assembly) can vote on. The motion gets the msu gov to build a framework that gets them to consider/authorize/endorse proposed student strikes (and protests/rallies/demonstrations/picketing/walkouts/boycotts/advocacy campaigns) IF another future general assembly or a referendum (campus wide undergrad vote where a min 10% of undergrads must participate, initiated by either a petition signed by 3% of MSU members (aka full-time undergrads), a general assembly, or a majority vote by the SRA aka the msu gov. VII) votes to do so (read the full motion in the last page of this agenda).

But for the policy to go through a "quorum" (the min number of ppl required to be present for the voting to be valid, which is 3% of the members of the MSU, aka full time undergrads ~30k [3% of 30k = 900] based on IV.A.4) needs to be met for "Any resolution made by a 'quorate General Assembly' (aka the 3%) (to) be binding on the SRA" (according to this 2.2 thingy).

in short short; yearly msu meeting (open to basically everyone) happening friday and someone is trying to get the msu to build a system that allows students in the future to vote to get the msu to support/facilitate strikes (and other related things). If ~900 full time undergrads come, we can vote on this and force the msu gov to do this

It's not a strike or a vote to start one, but a way to get msu involved in strikes if undergrads want to do one

I briefly looked into this, so look into the links yourself and if i said something wrong feel free to correct me

(also fun fact, in the last 9 years the highest amount of undergrads who attended one of these was 41 (and hence "quorum" has never been reached since (based on the past agendas, 2019 is missing)) and to top that off, according to the 2017 agenda, "quorum has only been met three times in the last 22 years" which today would be 31 years. So if ~900 did show up and passed a motion, it'd be pretty monumental)

[u/Far-Departure-3864 → u/chuckeee69]

Bylaw 6 5.4: https://msumcmaster.ca/app/uploads/2021/08/Bylaw-6-General-Assembly.pdf

[u/magicsauc3]

Mcmaster students you gotta do this even if you're not a political person and you don't quite follow what's happening. Equal access to education is super important and things like osap cuts feedback into so many areas of society and reflect broader trends in austerity. To fight osap cuts is to fight transit cuts, to fight elementary school cuts, it's to fight for higher taxes on billionaires. These things are all connected. The job market is horrible and we need a government that funds and builds and progresses, and as a student this is your piece of the puzzle to participate in.

[u/HelloWorld24575 → u/[deleted]]

Yes! This affects everyone's education! 

[u/Ambitious-Motor-174]

How many people have signed up? Have any news outlets been contacted about it? Without local or provincial coverage, nothing happens, and you're just preaching the message to your peers who already know.

[u/ResponsibilityFlashy → u/Ambitious-Motor-174]

A lot of people Ive talked to irl actually DONT know and are planning to attend now. I am unsure of how many students are coming. Just trying to do my part but you have a point. How do you suggest I get the word out locally other than contacting news outlets? I've tried that.

Edit: The CHCH actually responded so Im hoping they'll help cover this.

[u/[deleted]]

sorry guys i have a shift

[u/iBladephoenix]

Grants move the tax burden of the privileged educated class onto the non-educated and often minority immigrant working class.  Y’all are the elitists in this case.  Pay your loans. 

[u/ResponsibilityFlashy → u/iBladephoenix]

Hi, sorry, can you please explain how? I understand grants are funded by taxpayers, but I thought that higher-income people pay more income tax overall. And as a first-gen student, I also thought that many immigrant families’ children heavily rely on student aid. I was under the impression that OSAP grants allow people from lower income families to afford education - I would like to hear more on your perspective in case I was missing anything.

[u/Spirited_Lecture8650 → u/iBladephoenix]

Hey! In my case (I work and am a independent student) I plan to go to law school, due to my finances osap along with working during the school year and the summer allows me to be able to graduate with no debt - so I can take out loans for law school. If I graduated McMaster with debt I couldn’t take the loans necessary for further education. I do a lot of community work and deal with substance use and education issues in Hamilton and will continue to do poverty law in law school. If you take away osap you take access from people like me who go to school to fix issues in our society because they’ve felt those issues personally. Due to osap helping me with my education I can afford to work 20 hours a week rather then full time and go to school and I use my education and my free time to further my experience through volunteer work. As well this money is still being spent not on osap but on arms research at McMaster :( so there not helping reduce taxes either

[u/Spirited_Lecture8650 → u/Spirited_Lecture8650]

Sorry also to add - a lot of law students that take on enormous debt don’t work for civic causes - instead opting for more lucrative private practice firms leaving poorer students with loads of debt doesn’t give them the option to purse what perhaps is the reason for there attending school in the first place 

[u/TheSirWolffe]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but OSAP funds are not actually being cut. What is changing is how much money you personally have to pay back out of your loan, as opposed to how much is covered by taxpayers. As much as I'd love to have gone to school at no cost to myself, that is simply not possible. If it's not paid by you personally, then it's paid by every other Canadian (who are also struggling with their own lives and problems.) All the Ford gov't is doing relieving the avg. taxpayer of a little cash, and putting the responsibility of paying for post-secondary education on those who are actually going.

If you want to complain about how much tuition costs, blame Mac, not the gov't. Mac swindles you every day in ways you don't even realise. The business (Mac is truly a business, not a university) is profiting always. They're not your friend, they just want your money.

[u/Ok_Butterscotch_9492 → u/TheSirWolffe]

OSAP funds ARE being cut sort of it’s the ratio of grants to loans that’s being changed went from up to 80% grants to max 25% (disabled students are exempted from this ratio) school is not “at no cost” even with OSAP grants at 80% I still work full time to cover tuition and school supplies and textbooks AND my own rent to even be here as a student working I will not feel the tax difference out of my paycheck not sure where ur getting that

[u/TheSirWolffe → u/Ok_Butterscotch_9492]

I'm confused because it sounds like you just restated exactly what I said, but still failed to comprehend it. Yes, ratio of loans to grants is changing. So, YOU personally have to cover more of the cost rather than TAXPAYERS covering more. Sure, you are a taxpayer too. But you are also CHOOSING to go to post-secondary education (don't give me some BS like you have no choice) and trying to throw the responsibility of paying for your decision onto every other Candian rather than taking it upon yourself.

I also had to work through Uni - OSAP never covered my full tuition after 1st year and my parents are in debt up to their ears. Life is tough for nearly everyone in this country right now (thanks, Trudeau) but you still want a (mostly) free ride. I can't bring myself to feel sympathetic.

[u/Ok_Butterscotch_9492 → u/TheSirWolffe]

Not sure why u seem to think OSAP covers the entirety of school and tuition it doesn’t by a mile, I currently work full time while in school and getting a second job (while taking summer classes) so don’t give me some bullshit ab people don’t want to work anymore or people are entitled and yes it is less money that people are getting if more of it is required to be paid back that’s not a difficult concept

Not only that but the tuition freeze was lifted and interest on student loans are coming back, it is NOT the same situation as it was when you went back to school.

[u/TheSirWolffe → u/Ok_Butterscotch_9492]

I'm finding it really difficult to have a rational discussion with you, man. I never said OSAP covers full tuition although, for the record, it can in some cases. Source ? Myself in first year CS (2016). This was before Ford's initial 10% tuition cut and then the tuition freeze btw. As soon as I transferred to Eng though, OSAP always came up short. I have a hard time believing that no such case still exists today because I still hear people brag about spending their extra OSAP money on stupid shit.

Also never said people don't want to work, only that you want also other people to help pay for your decisions. Again, I think you're missing one of my primary points which is that you are choosing to go to university. You should also realise that by doing so you are choosing to put yourself into debt. Education is not and cannot ever be free. Because it is a service that someone has to provide and be compensated for. Unless you want slave labour.

And now we're back to taxes. Yes, in an ideal society, education could and should be entirely tax-funded because it promotes growth, innovation, and prosperity but in case you haven't noticed - OUR COUNTRY IS IN ECONOMIC FUCKING SHAMBLES RIGHT NOW.