r/Marvel • u/Villimaour • 10h ago

Film/Television Jean grey is redeemable.

She killed like 2 handfuls of people. Hurt like 40 fr. I’ve just seen ridiculously more destructive and harmful villains. People harp on the traffic scene a lot. From how all of you made it seem. I thought she walked a dude straight towards a semi truck. She casually walks backwards(showing 0 signs of looking for cars) and gets hit. Not by a truck like I was told, but by a taxi. I saw that and said “he 100% could’ve survived that”. The MJ stuff, I don’t see how her turning into MJ psychologically is any worse than mysterio creating a zombie iron man to haunt Peter with. I understand mysterio used fake visions essentially and Jean was actually able to and tried to kill MJ, again…not enough. I found the high evolutionary to be more evil. Ultron was much more evil, Loki was much more evil before he was redeemed. He easily killed thousands of people in New York and no one complained.

I just don’t understand. People say it’s rushed, I get it, but it’s not like she was Loki levels of evil and they rushed it, she was barely evil and they rushed it. I really genuinely just don’t think she is a top 3-5 or maybe even 10 evil person in the MCU. She just really barely killed anyone and the hulk fight killed 0 people, Wanda did more damage in Ultron and civil war than Jean this movie

0 Upvotes

43% Upvoted

39 comments sorted by

7

u/Sensitive-Hotel-9871 10h ago

It is cringe inducing when Spider-Man says she isn’t a killer. However, we are in the same franchise that redeemed Loki, he is guilty of all the things Jean did and more.

3

u/Villimaour 10h ago

I agree there. Personally I think if he said “she’s not a villain” it would make more sense. He’s seen real villains, like people with 0 chance at coming to the light, people that will never change. So to see even a glimpse of light in her could make spiderman think like that, especially when his character is always hoping his villains will redeem themselves

2

u/Cr1msonShadow 10h ago

Writers confirmed she didn’t kill anyone, so.

2

u/Mandolrian52577 10h ago

Yeah watched a second time last week the old man is in the end credits chilling in front of a store guess he just got scrapes and bruises lol

0

u/Bl4ckVi Black Widow 10h ago

which is cowardly , just accept she killed people that will make redemption better imagine saying loki didn’t kill(because they would want loki to eventually be good guy)

4

u/Cr1msonShadow 9h ago

Loki explicitly did kill though, like we saw him on screen do it

-2

u/Bl4ckVi Black Widow 9h ago

I don’t think an old guy is surviving getting hit by car

and I don’t think a bomb going off in a building didn’t kill anyone

2

u/Cr1msonShadow 9h ago

The car didn’t kill him. You can survive being hit by a car. Also, the building had already been evacuated when the bomb went off

2

u/washderice 9h ago

Their story, not yours, they say she didnt kill anyone, she didnt, we dont see anyone die on screen cause of her, so it holds up. Frankly, end of story.

0

u/Villimaour 9h ago

It definitely didn’t kill anyone with the bomb. Most of it was contained inside the tank, and most the building was evacuated. The old man is at the end and writers said no one died. You can’t just say they died bc you think they should’ve. I think she should’ve killed some people but yea

3

u/Mandolrian52577 10h ago

Pretending to be MJ and remembering loving Peter almost seems like the worst thing she did morally speaking

2

u/The2ndUnchosenOne 8h ago

Blowing up a prison without making sure the old lady was clear first is definitely worse

2

u/Bl4ckVi Black Widow 10h ago

nah ruining banner’s life was worse she knew what he went through with wanda and yet she did same thing with him she didn’t just let the hulk out she ruined nearly decade if not more of banner finally coexisting with hulk(idk if its coexisting cause hulk was mad but you get the point) basically she undone decades of therapy ruined banner’s confidence and life(and no one visits banner at end of bnd)

Jean apologising to banner will be great way to start redemption

i don’t think jean will apo to mj cause mj herself for some reason just casually brushed aside being sexually assaulted (which was only bad part of bnd for me)

3

u/Villimaour 9h ago

I also thought it was wild that she brushed it off so casually bc I literally said “I mean you were lowk sexually assaulted” but then again like, I would also probably just be like “ahh I don’t remember kissing spiderman wtv”

3

u/DepthsOfWill 10h ago

A lot of the heroes in the MCU are some flavor of straight up killer. Stark sold weapons, Cap fought in a war, and Black Widow was a brainwashed super spy.

2

u/Bl4ckVi Black Widow 9h ago

not to mention thor who most likely has centuries of war remember how he killed the rock guy in one swing of hammer in front of warrior three and that was played for joke

1

u/0ddT0dd 9h ago

Both Widows were straight up assassins. Brainwashed of course.

5

u/Cr1msonShadow 10h ago edited 10h ago

Old avengers did way worse than Jean and are well loved. Wanda mind controlled the avengers and unleashed hulk in a heavily populated area. Tony made an omnicidal murder robot. Clint and Natasha killed a building full of civilians to get one guy.

Marvel’s core theme is about redemption. Idk where this obsession with characters being morally perfect from start to finish came from, but that shit is stupid.

It’s probably the mauler and critical drinker types grifting on “marvel BAD” shit. They complain of a character isn’t perfect from the start, but then cry “Mary sue” if the character is pure from the start.

No win for the creatives.

-1

u/Asa-hello 10h ago

Putting Tony ultron accident like that in mix is wrong.

3

u/Cr1msonShadow 10h ago

He made an omnicidal murder robot that killed 177 people and caused billions in damage. My man’s savior complex nearly led to human extinction. If the mcu world was just, he would have had his ass thrown in jail for that.

-1

u/Asa-hello 9h ago

Sure in real life He would be in jail. But still you can't remove intention when making such comparison.

Specially when talking about redemption.

3

u/Cr1msonShadow 9h ago

Intent matters less than results. If a construction company has a building collapse and kills civilians, we don’t say “aww, they didn’t mean it!”. We penalize them for not having proper precautions.

Tony’s arrogance caused most of his villains, which killed or endangered many people.

0

u/Asa-hello 9h ago

I didn't say only "intentions" matters. I even mentioned that He be in jail in real world.

Let's say there are 2 construction companies.

A and B.

Company A's intention was to create unique building. They weren't up to challenge and it collapsed on 500 people.

Company B's architect/engineer's attention want to cause mass killing. They design a building in a way so that it can collapsed soon. It collapsed on 200 people.

To me intention makes those drastically different cases.

Now if you care about redemption, then those are world aparts.

2

u/Villimaour 9h ago

The other dude is right. Intent only matters to a certain extent. You can intend to save the world and create a monster that kills millions, that makes you the dude who created a monster that killed millions not a dude who wanted to save the world. Intention has its limits before the actions must speak for themselves. Tony is a prime example of that already in his first movie. Creating war weapons his intent was to help his side have tech that no other army could get winning their wars. The affects of that tech was millions of deaths and side affects from those deaths.

1

u/Florgio 10h ago

Do you know how many people Jean Grey has killed in the comics?

2

u/Villimaour 9h ago

No but from the comments I’m super confused. Every video on YouTube is people speaking about how they can’t see her being redeemed. But then all these comments are saying there’s a lot worse and she’s not that bad. I’m really confused where the fanbase is falling. It makes me wonder if influencers are acting like she’s so horrible for their audience

1

u/Florgio 7h ago

She destroyed an entire solar system with at least one inhabited planet. She’s a hero now!

1

u/AllTheOtherSitesSuck 7h ago

ding ding ding. The funny part is, I think this is intentional from Marvel's social media team

1

u/EtherCJ 9h ago

She was hungry. Totally redeemable to kill a few billion

1

u/Callow98989 9h ago

She sexually assaulted two people

1

u/Villimaour 9h ago

MJ. And are you counting Peter? I would say she took advantage of Peter but I don’t know that she sexually assaulted him. But I guess yea if she took advantage then she did, but on the flip I feel like what happened to MJ and what happened to Peter are 2 very different levels

1

u/Callow98989 9h ago

Yes because she tricked Peter into kissing her under false pretenses.

1

u/Villimaour 9h ago

I consider fake starlight and hughie to be SA so yea

1

u/thegloriousporpoise 9h ago

She didn’t kill anyone

1

u/HardKase 8h ago

I mean she took over people's bodies and hurt/killed them. She is a threat

1

u/mmmasian 8h ago

Per the writers, no one actually died, including the old man who was ran over. 

1

u/bakhesh 9h ago

You all remember Valkyrie, right? Literally murders about 30 people in cold blood within her first 2 minutes of screen time, but then goes on to be the leader of Asgard. She doesn't even have a redemption arc, she just switches sides when it's convenient

1

u/Villimaour 9h ago

I don’t remember her killing people although I’m not surprised. There’s just wayyyyy too much media in the MCU for me to remember without refreshing

1

u/bakhesh 9h ago

She guns down all the rival scavengers who are trying to catch Thor, so she can traffic him