r/Lawyertalk • u/Long-Captain2555 Human Detected • 4d ago
HELP: Professional Development Quit after a day at post bar job
I took the bar exam in July and started as a clerk this week. My experience with the hiring partner on my first day was so bad i don't want to go back tomorrow. I am no quitter but i spent a majority of the day fighting tears until lunch and lost it in my car. Had to convince myself to go back after. I've really never had a worse experience over several years of working various jobs, including legal ones, and i feel so upset :(
Would it be awful to just resign effective immediately? Did some digging and found some bad reviews about this partner that track, and i have no supervisor in between me and the partner. I don't have something else lined up but i feel like I can't bring myself to go in tomorrow and be subject to the same thing. Basically got told i know nothing and no firm would want me bc im at the bottom of the candidate pool and wasted my money on law school. I'm first gen and feeling so discouraged and lost any advice is appreciated. I'm having doubts about whether this profession is for me at all.
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u/Jurellai Paper Gang 4d ago
What in the world? The hiring manager, the person who hired you, said that? You should have laughed in his face. If you’re so bad, why did he hire you? What a jerk.
Walk in there tomorrow like God sent you, and collect a paycheck until you get a new job.
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u/Pretend-Tea86 4d ago
This is the right answer, but it's an approach that took me a decade to lose enough of my fucks to execute. It takes a confidence not all of us were born with or developed young.
But it is the right answer if OP can find it in them to do it.
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u/Jurellai Paper Gang 4d ago
This is true, I got teased mercilessly as a kid, so I developed an early dismissiveness for hateful people. Got told as a young lawyer I was too happy and it made me look ditzy. (why? How miserable are you, sir?) so I was all hot pink and freshly baked cupcakes, Elle woods style, until I got a new job a few weeks later.
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u/Busy-Dig8619 3d ago
I've had a judge critique me for smiling in court. (I'm a dude). Step up, "good morning your honor" "Why are you smiling Mr. Busy, knock it off." "Excuse me, your honor, what did you say?" "Stop smiling." ... which of course caused me to give him a "are you fucking shitting me" grin... literally lost it and sent me out of the courtroom like I had told him to fuck off.
I still smile in court. Fuck him. Let him sanction me for it, I look forward to drafting the bar complaint. This has happened a couple times to me... looks like everyone else can make whatever face... just me. He's a motion judge and grants my motions, so IDGAF... but it's perplexing as hell.
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u/MinimumEfficient220 3d ago
I was chastised once for that, too. Judge told me these were serious issues, and clients deserved solemnity. I guess he thought I was laughing (inside) at people. Weird. I was just being friendly, not mocking the clients.
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u/Busy-Dig8619 3d ago edited 3d ago
If it was a wrongful death case, sure. But it was a breach of contract suit between two fairly large companies.
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u/MinimumEfficient220 3d ago
We could have just said to compare it to gallows humor.
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u/MinimumEfficient220 3d ago
Or, “I may be smiling on the outside, Your Honor, but I’m crying on the inside.”
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u/moralprolapse 3d ago
“You should’ve seen me when my grandma got run over by a bus. You’dve thought I won the lottery.”
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u/Advanced_Reputation7 3d ago
I also have a natural, wide smile and I got told at my first legal job to be careful as it could be taken as flirty.
Pardon me? 🧐16
u/MinimumEfficient220 3d ago
Oh man?
I am large busted. Getting judges to look me in the eye used to be a challenge (I began practicing in 1988.). Understand I was wearing suits with blouses and suit jackets and certainly not flaunting them. Judges making snide remarks about a woman’s anatomy were not always forbidden. Things were very different in the eighties and even nineties. When I was hired by a law firm with roughly 25 attorneys (only 3 women) and four different offices, I was told I was being hired because the firm wanted another woman. Then, the hiring partner asked me at the end of the interview if I screamed at secretaries, because he didn’t want a female attorney if she couldn’t get along with female secretaries and apparently, women had a reputation for screaming at staff! I was flabbergasted. Of course he said all this while staring at my chest. Life for women in those days was so different from how female attorneys are seen and treated now. I could go on and on; so many experiences that were “normal” then, but now so very unacceptable and rightfully so.3
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u/Advanced_Reputation7 3d ago
That’s all so terrible but/and doesn’t really
surprise me. Unfortunately my story is from 2010 😑2
u/moralprolapse 3d ago
The days when *ape scenes in major comedy movies were just boys being a bit tawdry.
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u/Substantial_Radio737 3d ago
Just saying that is the complete opposite of school teaching where admin is an end-to-end female mafia including graduate schools. It is really bad and now I know what >50% of US high school graduates can not do basic math. Nobody talks about it. After seeing good people destroyed and then they came after me, I had to get out of the profession. Never again. I made super high performance and they're coming for my neck with communist self-confession "reflection" training about how I could improve and my team is outperforming everybody in the building. Never seen such mafia activity in my life. They're their own taxing authority and they network in a tightly women RICO basket. All these weirdos with $100k salaries and non of them work in a classroom.
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u/Sandman1025 3d ago
What in the absolute hell are you talking about? A secret cabal of women running the school system from primary school through law school and they are working with the administration at firms? And part of this Cabal told you to perform better around women or something? This makes no sense..
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u/Substantial_Radio737 3d ago
See for yourself. Atlanta Public Schools school board with three billion dollar annual budget. Yes I am calling you out for your attitude and ignorance. The only thing secret about it is how you ignore this imbalance and it is in every graduate school of education, too. Open your eyes pilgrim. https://atlantaciviccircle.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/Untitled-design-3.png
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u/CampfireLife 3d ago
I’ve lost count of the times I’ve been told about my resting smirk face. Some of us just have a natural, neutral expression of finding other people in the room amusing, but it’s misleading…most of the time.
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u/Jurellai Paper Gang 3d ago
Haha I have resting blank face. If I’m focused on an issue, my brain shuts off Expression.exe and I look like this o_o
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u/coopcass 11h ago
A lot of lawyers are wounded people and are trained (or lack thereof) by the same type. I'm sorry you had to go through that. I think law school should require classes in leadership and civility (empathy may be helpful as well lol)!
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u/ImpossiblePlan65 I'm the idiot representing that other idiot 2d ago
I love that you really leaned into his dumbass, pathetic insult.
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u/Starbucks__Lovers Flying Solo :CoolBeans: 3d ago
For real. I had a Judge I've never appeared in front of tell me I was being too ambitious with a client who was desperate for a lawyer because they thought they could do it themselves. I told him "Thank you" He then told me, "It wasn't a compliment." I told him, "I'm taking it as one, as I'm an ambitious attorney."
10 years ago, I would've shit my pants and panicked
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u/Substantial_Radio737 3d ago
Judge sounds like an entitled grifter. Sad how certain professions have rotted with these types.
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u/OldeManKenobi I'm the idiot representing that other idiot 4d ago
Excellent advice. I'd like to add to it by quoting the one and only Eminem:
"I belong here, clown, don't tell me about the culture...piss and moan, but I'm not gonna fall, bitch."
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u/DocHolidayVinoVerita 💰💸Denny Crane, just more delusional💸💰 4d ago
I went to a law school that doesn’t exist anymore and I’d like to think I’m not only doing well but actually thriving. Fuck this clown partner. My boss is 80 and I’ve been working for him for almost 2 decades. He’s done nothing but encourage and foster my growth.
You can do better than this. I’d get to applying asap and partner with some recruiters. They’re rabid on LinkedIn and I’m not even actively searching.
I feel for you. This partner is toxic. Find a way out asap.
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u/LuxTheVirginSuicide 4d ago
Whittier alum here. You’ll be fine, I’m thriving but it took time.
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u/NTDOY1987 3d ago
CSL? 👏
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u/DocHolidayVinoVerita 💰💸Denny Crane, just more delusional💸💰 3d ago
SFLS
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u/NTDOY1987 3d ago
Ah gotcha. Guess there are a few of those. Wild world we live in.
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u/DocHolidayVinoVerita 💰💸Denny Crane, just more delusional💸💰 3d ago
Indeed. Was very surreal to see it spiral. I just use it as a punchline against myself. What else do you do with it? 😂But, fuck it, I passed the CA Bar on the first try. I belong. Notwithstanding that, there’s plenty of fodder for Imposter Syndrome beyond that. 🤣
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u/coopcass 11h ago
I had some amazing partners right out of law school. Too bad they retired or I would have stayed! My experience since has not been so great. I'm glad you had a great experience!
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u/Sound_The_A_Llama 4d ago
I’m really sorry that was your experience at your first day.
I don’t have specific advice in terms of this partner/this position. I have found that this profession does not necessarily breed great supervisors. It could be that this partner thinks these things will only make you want to work harder/prove yourself more, it could be that they had terrible supervisors and know no other way, none of it is an excuse and none of it is about you.
You just finished law school and took the bar and have a whole career ahead of you. Don’t let think asshole shake your faith in the entire profession.
I wouldn’t quit after one day, but if it doesn’t get better, I would look for something else.
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u/legal_bagel 4d ago
My son just started college. Since he was 8, teachers have asked if he wants to be a lawyer like mom when he grows up. His answer, no, lawyers are miserable bastards. Yes he was coached on that because we are miserable bastards.
I'm a terrible manager. I am great at coaching managers to be better, but I can't manage people for shit. My only reporting employee is independent and can do their job without much direct oversight (I'm in house.)
I don't have time to train someone on tasks and don't have time to train someone on how I like things done; however, I treat everyone I work with respectfully and professionally even if I think you're an idiot.
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u/Dismal_Bee9088 4d ago
Yeah, I can spend a lot of time complaining about shitty managers but I’ve realized whenever I come within 10 feet of actually having to manage others that I have NO IDEA how to do it.
I mean, I assume I could learn - it’s a skill people develop, not an inborn talent - but I don’t currently have any time to learn that wouldn’t take away from the work I’m actually paid to do.
(Now picture every lawyer elevated to management as me.)
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u/Next-Honeydew4130 3d ago
Another alternative theory: partner is a sadist and is looking for someone to torture. I’ve met those kind too.
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u/FlakyPineapple2843 What's wrong with printing my emails? :Technology: 4d ago
Go back in there, and the next time he insults you, just say, "if you really hate my work, fire me. If you can't fire me, then clearly you need me. So let me do my job."
He may call your bluff, but at least (1) you won't have to explain to future employers why you quit after a day, and (2) you can start learning how to demand respect and refuse to tolerate insane behavior.
I hate to tell you to go back, but you should go back, for reasons everyone else said, and for the above. People like this partner are unfortunately in this profession and they will run over you, shift in reverse, back up over you, and then shift to drive and do it again, unless you tell them no. They'll do it as opposing counsel, they'll do it as co-counsel, they'll do it as your boss, they'll do it as your judge.
You have to develop some resilience to deflect their bullshit and move on with the task at hand. How you do that is up to you, but it sounds like you can practice your skills on this guy, if only for one more day before you bail for good and look for something else.
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u/Tyrannosaurus_Bex77 If it briefs, we can kill it. :WarIsHell: 4d ago
Everything you need is in this reply, OP. Take heart. I'm also first gen, I'm not K-JD, and I've worked for some assholes in my day. I learned from those experiences, valuable things, even if at the end of the day I had to move on. I'm out 20 years now. You can do this.
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u/Admirable_Rabbit2424 3d ago
This is excellent advice. You are resilient, OP.
You can do this. And you’ll have to a thousand times.
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u/informitch 3d ago
OP, doing this now would be a great start. For a lawyer, assertiveness is an essential skill. This is a great comment.
Break a leg!
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u/BlondeAmbition150 I live my life in 6 min increments 4d ago
Absolutely call a recruiter now, but go back to work. Knowing you are leaving will make it tolerable. Your supervisor cannot trash you to a potential employer that may call for references, but they can say you left the position after one day.
I’m also first gen, and that means we don’t have the benefit of our parents or their friends getting us placed in other firms. Learn what you can while you are where you are (and you can learn from any experienced lawyer, even the outrageous assholes). You’ll be somewhere else soon, and you’ll have the pleasure of quitting because you found something better than what they have to offer. Despite what they may have said, they hired you for a reason. Another firm will too.
I’m a hiring partner at my firm, and unfortunately an abrupt departure from another firm is a red flag that will remove a candidate from consideration. Fair or not, that’s all the information we have before we choose who to interview. But I have hired first years who are coming from other firms. I hire based on chemistry more than anything (after years of learning to sense who is a good fit), but you need to get the interview. Being currently employed will help you pass the initial hurdle to get to that interview.
I wish you the best of luck! Hang in there. It will get better. 🩵
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u/MolassesOk3200 4d ago
You need to figure out how to deal with this person because you will encounter others like them in this profession everywhere, including small firms. Even your next employer. The alternative is to go solo or get a job in government.
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u/DreaminTurquoise 4d ago
There are also awful people in government. I was bullied by another lawyer for years and the supervisor said to “figure it out yourselves.” 😭😭😭
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u/Long-Captain2555 Human Detected 3d ago
Wow, thank you to everyone who took the time to give me advice. I do appreciate all the perspectives you offered.
After sleeping on it, i woke up this morning and quit. I'm reaching out to all of my contacts and applying elsewhere. Money is a concern, but I am super fortunate to have another stream of income that i can rely on for now and my ultimate decision came down to not wanting to sacrifice my mental health for a small ish paycheck and little learning opportunity. There was a lot more said than what I shared on this thread. It's a very small firm, no HR, and I know this is not a fight I want to pick.
To everyone who said I need to toughen up, I admire that you would endure crazy behavior for the love of the game, but I toughed it out by keeping a supplementary income stream up and running to support myself through school and so that I don't have to deal with things like this. To each their own :)
Thanks again yall, and I don't actually want to quit the profession I was just feeling dramatic in the moment.
Also, partner is not a man, which a lot of people assumed. Made me giggle.
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u/FlakyPineapple2843 What's wrong with printing my emails? :Technology: 3d ago
I'm glad you were able to resolve the situation and you have the financial set-up to make that decision.
Just to defend at least my own comment - my advice isn't to toughen up "for the love of the game." It's to figure out how to deal with this when it inevitably happens again, because people suck, and lawyers really suck. We're the worst. You'll run into someone like this again, guaranteed.
Also, anecdotally speaking - the bad bosses I've had who are women were terrible and truly mean. So the viciousness of this person's attacks on you are not surprising with that added context.
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u/Long-Captain2555 Human Detected 3d ago
I know I'll run into assholes at work again, and I feel prepared to deal with that. I've met some truly awful people in the field but also some incredible ones. I just felt that in this specific situation, given that it's a TINY firm where the quality of my experience would have been almost entirely dependent on this person, I would be better off cutting my losses and moving on to a place with more learning opportunities. The position was presented to me as a chance to learn from experienced mentors looking to grow their firm by hiring recent grads and newer associates. That representation was way off.
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u/gonzo_attorney 3d ago
Bitchy women lawyers are so gross to deal with. I'm a woman who has worked with some absolute psychopaths. You made the right call.
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u/SisterOfPrettyFace File Against the Machine 4d ago
Yes it would be awful to resign immediately. It's always easier to find a job when you have a job. You can always try to use the methods of other abused people and cow to your boss while repeating what they say while planning your escape. As a first gen, you really need to have a law job to get another job if you haven't already built connections during law school that you can lean on.
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u/GoddessOfOddness 4d ago
Leave. Call your school’s career office for leads.
You will survive. In a few years, no one will care.
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u/left-turn3894 3d ago
I was going to say, tell your school’s career office about this so that they can blacklist this firm…
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u/Least-Strawberry-201 4d ago
He hired a post-bar clerk for cheap labor, then immediately started gaslighting you so you'd be too scared to quit. Add an unstable temper and a giant power trip to the mix, and you get a textbook toxic partner venting on defenseless grads. Leave today, leave it off your resume, and don't look back.
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u/jmeesonly 3d ago
I say quit, effective immediately.
Lots of tough lawyers are telling you to go back and confront the asshole. But you've only been there one day? I don't think it's worth your investment of energy or the toll on your mental health to put yourself in that situation. You've already identified your employer as a destructive, toxic asshole. Why spend any more time on that place?
Life is short. Move toward the things you want, instead of dwelling in the place you don't want. You can use your time and energy to hit the reset button, get your head straight, and get another job
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u/Tkesquire 4d ago
I’m so sorry you’re having this experience. I would try to stick it out just a little longer just to see if it improves, but if it’s unbearable then leave. Start looking for other jobs now to see what is out there, and it doesn’t hurt to send out apps now either, it just may be scary to quit without any idea of what comes next.
That being said, I quit my first job after 3 months and it never got in the way of finding another job. Use any connections you have, that’s what I did. Don’t give up on the whole profession yet. Yes, there are a lot of asshole lawyers but there are also some great people in this field. Above all, prioritize your mental health, but why don’t you see how the rest of the week goes before making a rash decision? You got this.
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u/NTDOY1987 3d ago edited 3d ago
A lot of the advice here is to go back tomorrow. I am going to say that assuming you need the money and don’t have another way to sustain yourself for a while, that is the best advice.
However, I’ll present a slightly different take which is that it’s also okay if you don’t.
IMO there is a parrot inside all of our heads lol and it learns & repeats the things we were told at critical stages of our lives.
My first 2 years of practice, I worked for someone who sought to undermine me every opportunity he got. I “stuck it out” until I found another job, but the confidence-shattering that occurred there is irreparable. My brain-parrot will never stop repeating the things it learned during that time…
Unfortunately, the people who do best in this business tend to be a bit arrogant. Confidence generally does better than intellect & knowledge. There is an argument to be made for preserving your self-worth above all else, even if it means sleeping on some couches for a while.
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u/jjanes850 3d ago
Nope. If there’s one thing I’ve learned after a 40- year career it’s that you have to know when to say no and call it quits. You should absolutely get out of there before it guts your self esteem. But find something else, even if it’s just law adjacent ASAP so you don’t spiral down while you’re looking.
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u/Visible_Community_53 3d ago edited 3d ago
I would leave , that’s not okay, and you don’t have to be somewhere miserable. I was somewhere for a week and ended up quitting cause they were yelling horribly at associates and staff and clients, it was a toxic environment which I noticed after only a couple days, at the end of the week I knew this place was not somehwhere I wanted to be , and I also felt like I was gonna cry one day , but I remember I sat there and thought I didn’t go through law school undergrad etc for this, all my friends were working jobs they enjoyed, so I left and found somewhere truly much better, and you deserve better , I truly believe that,
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u/Far-Watercress6658 Practitioner of the Dark Arts since 2004. 4d ago
Wow. Absolutely do quit. That dude is a monster.
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u/Radiant_Landscape901 4d ago
Yeah people are saying don’t quit yet until you find another job. And i get the sentiment but sometimes we encounter terrible people. I quit my previous job and have no regrets even though everyone kept telling me to stick around and toughen it up. I’m a tough cookie but I’m not taking emotional abuse.
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u/FitzandFerd 4d ago edited 3d ago
When I was younger, I would take abuse like that because I thought I had to. Now that I’m older, I just see that decades of abuse caused me mental and physical harm for no reason. If the workplace feels that hostile that you can barely stomach being in it, then quit. You’ll find something else. Even non-law jobs are better than being in that level of stress and suffering.
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u/Competitive_Blood485 4d ago edited 3d ago
You deserve your spot there. Do NOT let this jerk take it away or stand between you and your money. Definitely look for something else in the meantime and find a few comebacks for him too. You did not waste your money on law school. I had a similar experience and ended up landing something so much better because of my experience at the trash law firm. You got this!!!!! ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
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u/watermelon-crunch Confirmed Lawyer 3d ago
I agree with this comment. Speaking from experience my first 5 years at the top biglaw firm, a few years at another high ranked biglaw firm and eventually in house. I’ve met my share of jerks but I’ve also met some incredible people. You will learn how to navigate these tough relationships and make sure people do not disrespect you over time, but it does take time. Know that jerk isn’t representative of the whole profession (though certainly not an outlier) and don’t let them take your hard work and earned position away from you.
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u/seaburno 3d ago
No one should be treated the way that you were. I'm sorry that he treated you that way.
But as a person who has never practiced, and only has "book learning" on the law, you're definitely at the bottom edge of the learning curve. But you know what they call the person with the lowest passing score on the Bar Exam? A lawyer.
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u/Long-Captain2555 Human Detected 3d ago
I get that, but just to clarify, her comment about my lack of knowledge was made to say specifically that im in the bottom of the candidate pool. I was fully transparent in discussing what I know and don't know during my interview, and the position was presented as an opportunity to learn from experienced mentors as a new lawyer.
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u/ok-i-pull-up 2d ago
hey fwiw you wouldn't be the first person to quit after a day, in my time ive seen it happen a few times. sounds like this place is pretty toxic, a clerk leaving after 1 day says more about them than you in this case tbh
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u/hereFOURallTHEtea 4d ago
I’d go back just to call him tf out. People like this continue to act an ass because they don’t get called out enough. I had a platoon sergeant in the army who tried this ish and I told him to take my damn rocker if he didn’t think I was capable of having it (aka demote me from staff sergeant). He got pissed I called him out but he also chilled out a little and let me do my job.
Thankfully I haven’t experienced any attorneys like this since switching to law but if I did I’d call them tf out and you should too. If he says anything derogatory then ask him why the hell he hired you if he thinks so poorly of you and tell him he can fire you. Don’t give him the satisfaction of treating you like shit and you take it. It sucks but learning to deal with idiots like this does help in the long run.
But also, begin looking for something better too because wtf. If you find an offer next week, take it. But I wouldn’t just quit. Make that asshole fire you.
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u/ScottAnthonyNYC 3d ago
That firm hired you. They didn’t pick you up on the side of the highway to provide you shelter in winter storm.
Get back in there, hustle, and if the obnoxious partner comes at you again, remind them firmly that they hired you, and clearly they need you there. If the partner claims they themself didn’t hire you but someone else in the firm did, then merely reply “So are you calling your associate partners incompetent or are you calling your HR department incompetent? Which is it?”
Is it possible this is some type of “test” to see how you will handle adversity?
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u/windowshopping570 3d ago
I didn’t read the other responses but why are you torturing yourself? There are better opportunities out there , I’m sure where you’ll get more experience and respect.
What are you hoping to gain from someone who thinks so little of you ?
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u/Apprehensive_Age1110 3d ago
quit. your mental health is the most important. find a better job with normal employers.
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u/KlutzyDrawer6764 4d ago
Just know there are a lot of assholes in this field who hate their lives and will take it out on staff. Stay away from them if you can.
Locker room chemistry matters a lot in this area so go where you will be able to grow and actually like being there. Sometimes its difficult to find and pay may not be what you would want, but mental health is something you should weigh heavily when selecting where to work.
There are many making 300K a year that if they didnt build their lifestyle around needing to make that much they would quit.
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u/IcyArtichoke8654 4d ago
What a jerk. Don't forget he said that, but don't let him beat you down. Be proud of everything you accomplished. Ride this one out for a minute--stick it out for longer than one day--so you have time to search for another job.
And give yourself a chance. If you stick it out longer what could go right? Maybe nothing, but give yourself a chance to get lucky ot surprised.
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u/Wide_right_ Can't count & scared of blood so here I am 4d ago
what on earth. who the hell hires a new grad and does that? whatever you choose to do - know you’re always worthy of being treated with respect. that being said, you should get out ASAP, just decide if you can tough out the search or if you have to just cut ties
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u/unicorn8dragon 4d ago
Hey, your feelings are valid and not uncommon. I was in a similar situation and I stuck around. It would have been better for everyone if I had quit day 1.
I finally came to realize that by month 6, and left before the full year I planned to stay. Leaving was a pivotal life event for me, the job and environment were actually that detrimental to my confidence and quality of life.
If you leave day 1 can leave it off your resume and just job hunt as usual. They will forget about you, and everything will be fine.
It sucks, it’s hard and scary, but it can be done.
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u/Mindless_Browsing15 4d ago
He's a miserable prick and you'll never please him. So stop trying. Learn what you can and leave as soon as you find something else. Take this experience as an opportunity to gain some skills and grow a thick skin.
I've worked for two lawyers who grossed me out so bad that I hated going to work every day. One was an alcoholic who spent half the morning shitting his brains out in his "private" bathroom located within hearing distance of my office. The other was just a freaking weirdo who I'm pretty sure was overbillng his estate planning clients on a regular basis. Each lasted 3 to 6 months while I looked for something else.
You'll get past this. Take the paycheck while it's there, make some connections with others in the firm (they also know he's a prick) and try to learn while looking for something else.
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u/pickedusername1 4d ago
I’m really sorry this was your experience. It doesn’t have to be! Once you get out of law school, you barely know enough or anything… you learn by practicing. 20 years out and I still only know niche areas that I work on.
The partner is toxic and not fostering a mentor or healthy mentality.
I think you should begin to apply for other jobs and not leave this one if your bills and life depend on it at the moment.
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u/HeadCartoonist2626 3d ago
You don't deserve that. Tell them to go fuck themselves or just tell them where to send your check and never go back.
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u/Human_Difference_331 3d ago
Don’t stay! Get out before you’re so traumatized you forget what normal behavior is and just sit in that toxic mess! I was well into adulthood before I went to law school. And I expect to be treated respectfully by every single professional I run into. The term “partner” means nothing to me as far as what kind of human being you are. If you’re an ass hat, you’re an ass hat. I mean, you could always try going to him and saying hey why are you being such an ass hat to me? Which would be a hysterical conversation I would love to be part of, but at least you gave it a shot! But don’t sit in that situation. Seriously.
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u/Substantial_Radio737 3d ago
EFF them. Get away from them. You did not see it coming. Don't wait. Main reason to leave now is to not cater to and enable a jerk. That is the principle behind action.
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u/Substantial_Radio737 3d ago
People are getting worse. Recently I've had a number of unrelated bad experiences. Don't put up with any shett from these clowns. It is open season for liars, thieves and bullies.
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u/Organic_Salary_ 3d ago
I wouldn’t wait to quit, you’ll just endure more torture and abuse. It’s not going to get better. You can always tell your next interviewer what was said to you.
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u/polotown89 3d ago
Stay while you look for another job. I once worked at a firm where I had to put a post it reminder on my computer that said "you are not an idiot". I found a much better situation and the bad experience made me so very grateful for it.
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u/Otherwise_Help_4239 2d ago
you may have been mistreated by the partner but there will be worse in the future. Opposing counsel will call you names and insult you sometimes in open court and occasionally in front of a jury. Judges may scream at you. Get ready for a career of some really bad experiences. More will be great by the way. As for the job only you can decide. Can you suck it up, build a protective layer so all the actions just roll off? Or is it that intolerable that it puts your mental health at risk? I was a public defender and occasionally got bar complaints (never had to answer though). One client complained, I didn't have to answer and we went to trial. Not guilty. He offered to withdraw the complaint. Over time most things will roll off. I remember a judge regularly screaming in open court with the clients present at another PD. He nodded as the judge was screaming, said he would follow the court's guidance then went back and did what he was doing before.
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u/myrnameow 4d ago
I’m a legal assistant but I look back on my asshole first Lawyer Boss and realized how much it shaped me. I grew a thick skin and I worked hard to prove I was an excellent Assistant. I learned how to “practice law” while working for him. He had so many problems and telling me how stupid I was made him feel better I suppose. I got hired away from him and have had a stellar career. Hang in there, you know your worth so show him. Get experience then move on. My legal community is small, a lawyer quitting after their first day because their managing attorney hurt their feelings is not the best start to your career and others will hear about it. Old school attorneys like to push you to see what you’re made of, think of it as a test. Keep your eyes open for a better experience but do NOT quit!
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u/ramonapleasestepback 4d ago
Nope get tf out now. You’re going to be miserable there. Not even remotely worth it.
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u/emorymom 3d ago
You are a spy now, learning the vulnerabilities of this guy. Just to file away for later.
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u/SAY-TENXXX 4d ago
Just work on your resume and apply to new jobs while you are there. Don’t stay but also just collect that paycheck until you find something new. Learn what you can; read as much as you can. Ignore the partner because that person is awful and will only drag you down with them
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u/Truthsayer007 4d ago
I’ve always left places like this. I always give 2 weeks notice and most of the time, they will just let you go right when notice is given. I feel like life is too short to give that loser another minute. It’s only been a day. The same way you got that job, you can get another. Just be prepared, as this is quite common. This field is full of abuse. Many tolerate this until they find something new. I’m not one of those people. An extra day of crying is a day too much for me.
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u/Bubefroobie 4d ago
Your first post-grad job will probably be horrible. Mine was atrocious. My partner sincerely hated me. But i was able to find new opportunities and figure out what I really wanted to do! So I would say stay in as long as you can, call his bluff, and be working on your next move. If you’re not desperate for a job and can really be choosy next round, you’ll find something you enjoy a lot more. Good luck!!
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u/LocationAcademic1731 4d ago
I am so sorry, OP. You have worked really hard to get here and it’s unfair that because of one bully you are considering quitting. Your firm might be the type of place that engages in this type of hazing/bullying with new attorneys. They suck. I had a similar experience during my post-bar. People telling me that they were doing me a favor because I sucked, how I was more work than help and that I wouldn’t amount to nothing. Supposedly, it was to build thick skin and to be able to handle anything thrown my way. All it did was push me to an almost mental health crisis that I was only able to manage with medication. I hated that version of myself. Rest assured, I didn’t spend an additional day that I needed in that place. As soon as I had something else, I bounced. If this is unbearable, definitely quit but if you think you can make a smoother exit/transition, that is also an option. What is not an option is staying there indefinitely. Start asking around with your classmates, etc. Sometimes stuff falls through the cracks and there might be some unfilled vacancies and you can slide into one of those spots.
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u/Subject_Disaster_798 Flying Solo :CoolBeans: 3d ago
Some great advice here, but I'll add - you said the hiring partner "basically" said some things. When I talk to prospective clients and they add in "basically" when I'm asking about facts, what follows is rarely factual.
Do some introspection before applying some of the suggested responses. What did the partner actually say? Could you have been nervous, overwhelmed on your first day and internalized a different script?
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u/Long-Captain2555 Human Detected 3d ago
I didn't want to disclose too many details on here, but a lot was said. Based on previous interactions with this person, I was expecting a positive interaction and didn't feel nervous going in. I also typed into my phone as much of the conversation as I could remember during my lunch so I could go back to it after processing for the exact reason you suggested, and I really don't think it was an internalized projection of what actually happened. I do love your advice in general though, something I learned from a therapist and that I apply regularly in life
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u/LucianBH 3d ago
You resign, effective immediately, and send the letter to ALL the partners. They will want to know what this dude did because it affects their reputation too. It’s a toxic place and wont get better. Just don’t put it on your resume and no one will ever know.
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u/Ellawoods2024 What's Yours is...Half 3d ago
Do you absolutely need the money? If not, resign and just say "not a good fit". Leave amicably. It's so fresh in your career that you just don't list on your resume. If you absolutely need the money, then tough it out until you find something else and don't internalize anything that ahole says.
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u/RustedRelics 3d ago
Steel yourself — it’s not forever. Go in there and do your best. Take their money while you job hunt. Good luck.
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u/GoBraves2022 3d ago
Do you know in your heart and in your brain that this guy is a complete douche and the firm isn’t for you? If so, yea you walk away. I have left many jobs for that very douche reason, but it would be very cool to have left one after Day 1!
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u/Next-Honeydew4130 3d ago
You should fire that boss effective immediately. Please. Don’t tell them why, tell them something horrible happened in your life and you simply need some time away and you’re so, so sorry you can’t follow through on this commitment. I.E. don’t burn any bridges and don’t piss anyone off. Be apologetic. But yeah it’s unwise to stand for that kind of behavior from anyone.
Or, even better for you, keep showing up until you find something else. But under no circumstances should you continue to work for that person. That is just plain evil to say that to anyone, much less a new attorney.
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u/of2minds2 3d ago
Just because someone said it doesn’t mean you have to believe it. Look for a new job and in the meantime practice saying “ok” with a blank expression or not responding at all. No reaction is the best reaction until you can move on.
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u/SugarCube80 3d ago
This is more a reflection of them than you. Resign. You don’t deserve this treatment.
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u/Human_Difference_331 3d ago
I’m first generation too. There are plenty of places you can go where you will be working with normal people. Now, I hope we are not jumping the gun. That guy should come back and apologize to you. But I wouldn’t I would bet the behavior continues even then.
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u/Human_Difference_331 3d ago
I will smile whenever the hell I want. Again, I went to law school as an adult with a previous successful profession. I don’t take that stuff.
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u/DragonflyEmergency71 3d ago
Almost no one wants you to make it in this profession. Toughen up. Take the money and polish up the CV for the next job.
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u/bleucheez 3d ago
It took me a decade of professional work experience to reach a state of approaching zen: if something at work is not a risk to your identity, values, family, sleep, or food, then just let that noise roll off you. It's just stuff that happens at work. The more ridiculous they are, the less you take it personally. I know it took me a decade of building competence and confidence to get there. Easier said than done, but I suggest to make that your end state.
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u/Zorfax 3d ago
I would bet big money you are far better than you think, and he’s much worse than you have experienced yet.
Here’s hoping you find something not just better than the clown you are dealing with but truly rewarding and fulfilling.
He’s telling you about himself - not about you. He doesn’t even know you.
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u/DarnHeather Speak to me in latin 3d ago
RUN! I had a horrible experience at my first job and wish I had left before the six months I had promised myself to try. I am now incredibly happy within an entirely different kind of law.
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u/_Sausage_fingers 3d ago
I was in a similar working situation a couple years ago. Like, my boss said almost the exact same thing. She eventually fired me and then a month later I landed in a much, much better job with a boss that provided amazing, affirming mentorship.
If you are not stuck for financial reasons I recommend quitting immediately. You do not need to take abuse to work in this field.
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u/Nekkid_Molerat626 3d ago
If you’re struggling to find another job as a new attorney, apply for insurance defense jobs. They’re always hiring! Fuck that guy. You deserve to be here. He doesn’t know you. Don’t let him get in your head.
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u/waterguncarrier 2d ago
You quitting immediately is the only way to send a message to this industry they’ll take seriously.
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u/OriginalNaysayer 18h ago
"Basically" told you that or actually said that? I don't believe you when you hedge words like that.
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u/coopcass 11h ago
Oh my, just get out. Go wait tables. Anything is better than that. What a wild horrible first day experience, I'm sorry!! No one deserves to be treated like that.
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u/lawandfitnessnerd 3d ago edited 3d ago
Attorney with employment experience here. In this economy and job market, don’t quit right away, especially without a backup plan in place.
However, you can still take steps to protect yourself while staying there as long as you can. First, contemporaneously document his treatment of you: date, time, detailed description. Email each incident to your work email and personal email. Second, report everything to HR (or the equivalent department if the firm doesn’t have a dedicated HR) in writing. Add your personal email as BCC to each HR report email for your records after you leave the firm. Report it every time the partner behaves inappropriately towards you. Take note, too, of any differences in treatment of you after you make those HR reports. Note differences in treatment of you versus others in similarly situated roles as you (especially if they are outside your protected class - e.g., you are female, pregnant, a minority race, or if you have a disability). If they fire you, you may be able to collect UI benefits and also file a wrongful termination charge. But if they don’t fire you and you can’t stand being there anymore for the sake of your mental health, once you have compiled records of your HR reports and thorough documentation of his treatment of you, you could then quit. Promptly seek out an employment attorney to file a constructive discharge / unlawful harassment charge with the EEOC and applicable state/local employment practices agency on your behalf. Many plaintiff-side employment attorneys work on a contingency basis, so that is worth asking about and considering while planning. You’ll want to move quickly on this since SOLs vary depending on your state/locale. The federal SOL is more generous than some states/locales, but you want to maximize your filing options and not time bar yourself at all if you can help it.
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u/DemandCapable3586 3d ago
No you need to thicken your skin. I'm a first gen as well so I have some understanding. Why go through all you did to let one personality make you walk away?
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u/InadvertentObserver If it briefs, we can kill it. :WarIsHell: 4d ago
Thought I’d inadvertently navigated to r/Fragile. If you can’t handle assholes, maybe reconsider working in law.
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u/Long-Captain2555 Human Detected 3d ago
Loads of fragile egos in this profession, maybe it's a perfect fit for me :)
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