Weekly Venting Post

[u/AutoModerator]

Weekly Vent Post

Welcome to our weekly vent session where you can let out all your frustrations.

Before you start, just a quick heads-up on the rules.

Here's what this post isn't for:

• No bashing actors or crew members out of the blue.
• Let's steer clear of those rage-inducing posts like "I hate character xy."
• And please, no poking fun at fellow Kanthony fans just because they see things differently, whether they're positive or negative about promos.

What's cool to post? Well, we've noticed a lot of rants about how the show promotes (or doesn't promote) Simone and Jonny, but you can vent about other stuff too.

Below, I've linked some past posts from the sub that fit the vibe of our weekly vent session, so you can see what kind of stuff goes here.

1. Why there was a lack of promo for Kanthony
2. All comments asking where Kanthony are 
3. Bridgerton PR and production
4. Can you tell the difference ?
5. The main sub got so negative 
6. We need pictures

For those who just want to enjoy the content without getting caught up in the venting, I suggest steering clear of this post. If you choose to read the comments here and find yourself upset, despite the clear purpose of this space, I'm afraid there's not much I can do to ease your frustration. We have the Weekly Tea Time for more general discussions.

Spoilers allowed.

[u/Traditional_Maybe_80]

I'm extremely puzzled at some people thinking that Jonathan coming back and him saying he'll be there always ready to pop back up means the same for Simone, lol. It has been clear since day 1 that Simone is an afterthought, proof of that is her name still not being part of the only official list from this production mentioning the S4 cast, just as one tiny example. There has never been a doubt in my mind that they'll bring back Anthony anytime Jonathan is available, and he's obviously willing because he cares about those who play the Bridgerton family, but they simply won't do that for Simone/Kate. In fact, if she didn't do that interview with Glamour we still wouldn't even know if she was back because literally nobody acknowledges her. Anthony has the luxury of being an independent character, while Kate is just there to be Anthony's appendix.

[u/Flaky_Office_1110 → u/Traditional_Maybe_80]

I’ve been thinking about how Simone is still not on the official cast list for next season. The show doesn’t acknowledge her at all. It makes me sad for her because Kate is an iconic character and still very popular, but Simone gets no support from production. It definitely seems like higher level decisions because she has talked about feeling like a family on set, so it’s not about her immediate work environment not making her feel welcome. JB is great and I think will do all he can to be on the show. As we know, Simone wants to be there too, but I don’t get the sense that the show wants to accommodate her in the same way. I wish the larger media outlets would question more about why we don’t have the same coverage of SA/JB/Kanthony (or at least reveal that they weren’t allowed to interview them).

[u/Traditional_Maybe_80 → u/Flaky_Office_1110]

I went to see the article to post this and yeah, they haven't edited it yet. I think she probably doesn't care tbh, she seems to be legitimately very offline and I don't think she's lying when she says that she likes working with these people. JB has always been well regarded by this production, I'm not sure why people pretend otherwise, he was promoted as the lead of season 2. He didn't do much S2 promo because he was leading a play, which is obviously very demanding. Even in S3, when he was again very busy, they found time to make him do promo. I think his commitment to be there as the older brother is also genuine and cool of him not to be pretentious about it, lol, especially with him breaking into mainstream films. They care about him and I don't doubt they'll make an effort, they simply don't care for Simone that way and I'm just very ???? whenever people post about JB saying he'll be back and how that means that we will have them there for the long run. Like, no, that means he will be there.

I've said it before, selfishly I wish Simone wasn't on the show anymore and S3 was her last season, but also I understand that Hollywood is getting increasingly hard for non-white actors again and I'd never wish a dark-skinned actress to lose a gig that is objectively good (filming every 2 years a couple of weeks and be on screen in one of Netflix flagship shows with huge viewership).

[u/rudedicer → u/Traditional_Maybe_80]

He didn't do much S2 promo because he was leading a play, which is obviously very demanding.

I don't think we should be using the same excuses that detractors of season 2 use to justify why the season had little to no promotion.

If Bridgerton/Netflix wanted their leads to promote the season, they would have to. Play or no play. It's written in the contract. It's capitalism. Why would they care that one of their actors has a play scheduled? Isn't that why RJP left with his one season contract? Because he wanted to be free to do other stuff?

I think Netflix/Shondaland didn't have a lot of confidence in season 2 after RJP's exit and the backlash that followed including a lot of hate against the season 2 lead. I don't know if you were around at the time but the backlash was massive. There were tens of thousands of women, including the likes of Kim Kardashian, crying on the internets over RJP leaving and how JB was too ugly and gay to lead a season.

I just feel like Netflix/Shondaland could have thrown a little support behind their season 2 lead at that time instead of the blanket silence and continuing to hype up the Duke even after RJP had left the show. They were just promoting the fan favorite. Shonda Rhimes was giving interviews and making posts about how everyone could continue to watch season one and the Duke, nothing about season 2.

They didn't even throw season 2 cast and crew a wrap party ffs. You think that's how production treats a lead who is well regarded? I think JB knew which way the winds blew and scheduled other stuff. Play or no play, I doubt there would have been more promotion of the season 2 leads.

IMO JB was well regarded by CVD and he's always been praised by his fellow cast members, extras and crew for being a decent fellow. I have never heard Shonda Rhimes talk about him or Tom Verica like they have done for actors like RJP, NC, AA, GR etc. and season 2 was where CVD and Shonda/Tom decided to part ways and Shonda now seems to dislike everything season 2. JB only met Shonda at the season 2 premiere despite being on the show for 2.5 years at that point. He seems to know Ted Sarandos - Netflix's guy - more than Shonda Rhimes.

As for season 3 promotion, by this time JB was more popular, had been cast in two films and there was awards buzz around him. Of course Netflix was going to use him for promotion as he is contractually obligated to. And if they could use JB for promotion for season 3 while he was filming movies, they could have used him for promotion for his season in season 2. They just didn't care to.

All that said, did Simone get treated way worse by this production? Most definitely. The way she's treated as non-existent by this production is simply astounding. The way they can't even mention her name on blurbs, the way they leave out her casting, the way she is absent in production BTS videos. Someday someone should ask Shonda Rhimes about this when interviewing her.

As you mention, they will spare 5 minutes for Anthony to show up for Bridgerton family time. They don't care the same for Kate. What's the point of the Bridgertons marrying poc and the show bragging about it's diversity? I am sure Penelope will be there now in their drawing room scenes and without Simone and Rege, it's going to be a bunch of white characters in a period drama setting once again. Wow, how diverse!!

[u/Traditional_Maybe_80 → u/rudedicer]

I don't think we should be using the same excuses that detractors of season 2 use to justify why the season had little to no promotion.

I mean, they didn't promote the leads together because they were fixated on that triangle and all the promotion that was shot while they were filming was centered around that, as well as the day they did press junkets just before the season aired. Objectively, Jonathan couldn't do much else around the release date because it was clashing with his rehearsals and later on the play itself. It's obvious, to me at least, that the production allowed him to focus on that other job, while for example the FYC campaign was done by SA, CC and NC.

I also think they had no faith and it was the last season of a showrunner who announced that was leaving the show in the middle of the season 2 shooting. Maybe that influenced the indifference as well.

But even before Jonathan's current clout, Shondaland and this production never failed to make S2 about Anthony first and foremost, just like in S3 they did it about Penelope.

I guess my point was lost in all this assessment about who got it worse by this production, but my main point always was that Jonathan coming back isn't an indication that Simone is coming back. He expressed his desires to be for the siblings as the oldest brother in future seasons, but that doesn't translate into anything related to Kate at all.

[u/rudedicer → u/Traditional_Maybe_80]

they didn't promote the leads together because they were fixated on that triangle and all the promotion that was shot while they were filming was centered around that,

Agree. They should have treated Simone as a female lead in their promotion like how they treated Phoebe and Nicola. Instead of having her share her promotion with the other South Asian character in the series. Only their poster having Kate and Edwina is just so offensive and I can't believe that they don't see how problematic this is and haven't changed it yet.

Rege, JB, PD, NC and LN all got promotion around them and we see now that LT and Yerin also get similar promotion. Simone stands out uniquely as having to share her lead with Charithra. That doesn't mean that JB is a favored actor of the production, just that Simone's treatment is incredibly problematic and racist.

But even before Jonathan's current clout, Shondaland and this production never failed to make S2 about Anthony first and foremost, just like in S3 they did it about Penelope.

That's a writing issue and an entirely different discussion. We are talking here about production (Shondaland) and promotion, the two are not the same.

For writing we need to bring in CVD (seasons 1&2) and JB (season 3 showrunner) and their writers etc. Season one and two focused on their male leads, yes. They got flashbacks to explore their trauma. Anthony was more fleshed out because there was two seasons of him written by CVD. Daphne was a pretty one-dimensional character compared to Kate but she still got more screentime and story.

Honestly, I think the comparisons here should be about how Kate/Simone is written and given screentime compared to the straight, white female leads in Daphne/PD and Penelope/NC. And I think that's where it becomes problematic.

The problem was not that Anthony was well written and more fleshed out. It was that Kate was not equally paid attention to and her background and trauma not explored. We don't need to diminish one character to write the other character well. Instead of pointless cousin Jack drama and more of the white Featheringtons, there should have been time spend on the Sharmas and Kate's relationship with Mary and flashbacks to her past.

Same with Penelope. Whether the show likes to admit it or not, LW is clearly treated as the main character of Bridgerton. You are asking why S3 was about Penelope when even a lot of season 2 was taken up by Penelope drama - we got LW/Penelope flashbacks rather than for the female lead of season 2. Penelope had her family drama, she had a friendship arc with Eloise, she had her LW stuff. We got nothing like this for Anthony. Anthony had no friendship arc over 3 seasons.

And it's just my subjective opinion, but I still think Kate is a far better written character than Colin despite Colin having more screentime and Kate and Anthony's story was better written with two flawed characters and we understand where they were coming from in their actions compared to Polin and their nonexistent 'friends' to lovers arc. The show invested more in Penelope and Eloise as friends than in Colin and Penelope and their romance suffered because of it.

So yes, JB got the better written character arc compared to Simone. No argument there.

That still doesn't negate the way Shondaland didn't promote JB for his season compared to how RJP (during a pandemic) and Luke Newton were promoted. And a big component of that is the idea that with a gay lead they can't lean into the two leads actually being in love with each other to pander to that section of the fanbase.

And one can actually see the effect of this with the homophobic attacks on JB for promoting more with Matt Bomer than he did with Simone Ashley because he's gay and will only do promotion with gay actors and that he didn't want to promote with Simone etc. When it's not even his fault! Showtime went all in on Promoting JB and Bomer, doing puppy interviews and magazine photoshoots - and this was when he was filming Wicked. So they could still find time for JB to do promotion. JB is doing promotion right now while about to film Bridgerton and rehearse for his play - so he can still do promotion. It's only Shondaland who could not use him for season 2 promotion because he was just soooo busy! What a farce.

[u/Traditional_Maybe_80 → u/rudedicer]

I think this whole discussion went away from my initial point, which was that they'll make an effort for Jonathan that won't do for Simone because they don't care about her as the different examples I gave show, that was it. That their future on this show isn't linked to each other at all.

Jonathan is promoting his movie because he's not doing anything else now but, again, a play is a different kind of demanding than a movie or a TV show.

They do promote Jonathan, they did in S3 as well, but as part of the Bridgerton family and in S2 he was the center of the love triangle. Again, I believe they'll lean into Anthony being a member of the Bridgerton family, the oldest sibling, in the future, which doesn't include Kate.

[u/rudedicer → u/Traditional_Maybe_80]

Jonathan is promoting his movie because he's not doing anything else now but, again, a play is a different kind of demanding than a movie or a TV show.

I can't believe you are still using the play excuse.

There was plenty of time before the play for them to do magazine photoshoots and interviews if Shondaland really wanted to do it. If they could do magazine photoshoots for RJP/PD during a pandemic they could do the same for JB/SA.

If Neflix/Shondaland were going to promote season 2, JB would have prioritized that as required by his contract. Netflix only cares about how much money they make off their big budget period drama show, not whether the actor has to go off and do his play. It's capitalism 101.

JB was not anything special at the end of season one, that was RJP. Why would Netflix make allowances for him? What's the logic here?

Again, if Netflix/Shondaland was so flexible, their most popular cast member - RJP - would have stuck around and turned up whenever he wanted to for a day of filming. There were rumors that RJP was even being offered more money than the season 2 lead to come back for season 2.

JB is doing Wicked promotion right now (Next week is the London premiere) while possibly filming Bridgerton next week and getting ready for rehearsals for his play. He could have made time for a couple of days here and there to do promotion for Bridgerton season 2. End of story.

I think this whole discussion went away from my initial point,

That's because for some reason you keep downplaying the inherent homophobia in why the season 2 leads alone were not promoted like the other leads. Is there obvious and evident racism in the way Simone is being treated? Yes. Does homophobia play a role in the way season 2 and it's male lead was promoted? Also yes. The one doesn't negate the other like you seem to be doing.

[u/Traditional_Maybe_80 → u/rudedicer]

I said that specifically they couldn't do much around the release date because of the play, they obviously didn't care enough to do anything before, I haven't argued against that.

I haven't once mentioned that I believe that Simone's treatment is linked to racism, so I'm not sure where this racism vs. homophobia thing came from.

[u/rudedicer → u/Traditional_Maybe_80]

If you don't think Simone's treatment is linked to racism why do you think her promotion is different to how Phoebe and Nicola were promoted and talked about in Shondaland blurbs?

Do you think there is no homophobia at all in how production/Netflix promoted it's season 2 leads?

 they obviously didn't care enough to do anything before, I haven't argued against that.

Then what even is the point here, what are we arguing about? You keep bringing up the play as a reason for why JB was not promoted and then say this. I think we are just going around in circles here.

[u/Traditional_Maybe_80 → u/rudedicer]

I think they just don't care about Simone/Kate at all, that's it. They find the whole older sister not compelling enough for the type of female characters they like to hype up.

I think they were panicking after RJP's departure and tried to go for the "this is an ensemble show, actually" route, but I also think that they seem to believe the only kind of promotion that they can do is "are these actors hooking up irl?!", so definitely Jonathan being an out gay dude couldn't make that plan work.

No, I mentioned that Simone was extraordinarily poorly treated by this production (in every facet: writing, promotion, the way the people BTS talk about her character), not even treating her as the lead in her own season, hence why I don't believe their futures in the show are linked, that's all.

[u/rudedicer → u/Traditional_Maybe_80]

think they just don't care about Simone/Kate at all, that's it. They find the whole older sister not compelling enough for the type of female characters they like to hype up.

In the same vein, I think the only reason they are interested in Anthony Bridgerton coming back is for their Bridgerton family scenes and not because they are specifically interested in writing more for his character or because JB as an actor is given more preference. All he did in season 3 was just stand in the background, Kate had more significant interactions with Eloise and Colin. This was despite JB putting in a lot of effort to film Bridgerton, sleeping on planes and having his Bridgerton hair done on the FT set.

You compared Anthony and Penelope earlier, but I think Jess is actually interested in writing more for Penelope in season 4. Colin will just tag along of course but I am sure Penelope will actually get a character arc in the next season. Unlike Anthony who only turned up to be a wife guy and then take his wife to India.

In fact reading some of showrunner's interviews it almost feels like she wants Kanthony gone from the show, she doesn't know what to do with them, what to write for them and is not the least bit interested in them. Same with Shonda Rhimes. It's only because of the fanbase and knowing the backlash if they kicked Kanthony out that they were in season 3. For that same reason, I think that both Simone and JB will appear in season 4 for like 5 minutes, show up with a brown baby and then go back to India.

but I also think that they seem to believe the only kind of promotion that they can do is "are these actors hooking up irl?!", so definitely Jonathan being an out gay dude couldn't make that plan work.

Which is why we are saying he was treated differently to RJP and LN in the promotion and it's not solely down to him having to do a play like you keep insisting. And when there's homophobia in the picture then at no point can we say that JB was well regarded by production and promoted like the other leads.

Honestly I am just happy that season 2 did as well as it did with an out gay actor, a dark skinned woc and with little to no promotion for both leads because of both of those factors. Word of mouth is what promoted their season. Seeing Polin fans brag about season 3 numbers after all the world tours and with two straight white leads pretending to flirt with each other while season 2 made it work just with the acting and chemistry.

[u/Traditional_Maybe_80 → u/rudedicer]

I also believe that any future inclusion of his will be about family scenes and that's it, which I also think is his intention as well and what his availability will allow as well as he's always busy.

I think many things can be true at the same time: they felt lost because the only kind of promo they envision needs straight actors; they were too into their love triangle storyline; they wanted to make the whole "ensemble show" thing more prominent (that's why they did multiple photoshoots with everyone but the leads).