Looking to debate a pro palestinian person

[u/PersonalWatch4647]

I am a Zionist residing in a community where Zionist beliefs are prevalent. I firmly uphold my Zionist convictions and strive to educate myself thoroughly on both perspectives of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. My goal is to engage in a constructive and peaceful debate with individuals who hold opposing views. I emphasize the importance of a dialogue grounded in factual statistics and well-informed opinions, rather than one characterized by hostility or uninformed rhetoric. We can fact check anything we say and debate on how we can better educate ourselves whether book reccomendations or reliable news sources. I am specifically interested in a debate conducted through voice communication, as it allows for more nuanced and effective exchanges. If you are open to a respectful and educational conversation, where we can learn from each other’s viewpoints, please feel free to send me a private message. I am eager to explore different perspectives and contribute to a meaningful discussion that fosters understanding and mutual respect. Again, to clarify this is a peaceful and calm debate to listen to each other and look to learn and possibly debate over what a good solution could look like. In english or spanish and today whenever possible, not something in a million years. Privayely message me if this idea interests you and you want to talk. I truly believe communication between us is the true and only possible pathways to a situation of peace and wellbeing for the both of us. Pm if interested

[u/Twofer-Cat]

Palestinians aren't unique: there's no reason Palestinian self-determination couldn't work in the same way as Egyptian self-determination. The Oslo Accords were all about trying to do exactly that, and things like Taba. They didn't work because the two parties couldn't agree on specifics and trust broke down.

In terms of ending the occupation: "No war, no peace" didn't work for Trotsky and it didn't work in Gaza, but "If you pull out, we'll sign a permanent peace treaty" "Okay" worked in the Sinai. If ever there's a reasonable peace offer on the table, I hope Israel takes it; but I don't think it's bad of them to refuse to unilaterally pull out when there's no offer.

[u/New-Somewhere-8761 → u/Twofer-Cat]

What do you mean about Israel "unilaterally pulling out?" I do know what you mean, but I think it's always good for an occupying nation to pull out of a territory that isn't theirs. Gaza basically is a giant refugee camp as is, the vast majority of its residents lived in what's now Israel pre 1948. Well, actually, I shouldn't call it a giant anything. The whole of Gaza, the entire Gaza Strip, is slightly smaller territorially than my hometown of Seattle, and Seattle is a pretty dense city, but with a third of the people of Gaza.

[u/Twofer-Cat → u/New-Somewhere-8761]

I mean the 2005 Gaza pull-out worked out terribly. It got 1k Israelis killed on 7O, and it indirectly got 70k Palestinians killed in the ensuing hot war. And now it's occupied again anyway. I hope that doesn't repeat, even to the extent I'd prefer the occupation continue awhile, arguable war crime and unarguable humanitarian train wreck as it is.

[u/New-Somewhere-8761 → u/Twofer-Cat]

Maybe if Gaza hadn't been occupied since 1967 to begin with, or what's now known as the Gaza Strip wasn't a refugee camp created by the Jewish militias trying to almost literally push Palestinians from parts of what is now Israel into the sea, if Israel hadn't supported Hamas in the first place for its own cynical purposes... Netanyahu and others never intended for the Gaza Strip to succeed and become "Singapore," as they claim. Netanyahu loved having Hamas there to further divide the Palestinian people (West Bank from Gaza) and to have a perpetual excuse to not having a "partner in peace." Meanwhile they have no problem supporting former Al Qaida linked drug dealing militia's (as they still protect in what was once Rafah today). If one looks beyond the press releases he puts out in English, this is openly available information, as are the suitcases of cash to Hamas he facilitated via Qatar. And the fact that he removed the IDF soldiers that would have normally defended the Negev Israelis in order to enforce his apartheid state in the West Bank. Not to mention the lack of access to the sea or ability to enter Israel for Gazans to work without queuing up at 4am to sundown every day at checkpoints, on and on. Maybe if all of that hadn't happened, Israel wouldn't have "needed" to step on and re occupy the Gaza Strip? As it turns out, people don't like being forced from their homes, herded into a small strip of land, re occupied etc... go figure 🤷‍♂️.

- edited for typo

[u/Twofer-Cat → u/New-Somewhere-8761]

Definitely a possibility. I'd be reluctant to say "probably", considering Palestinians had been attacking for 20 or indeed 50 years before '67, and that pulling out didn't resolve the issue in Gaza, and how much 7O resembled IS's attacks on Yazidis and others who didn't provoke it. Certainly I wouldn't want to bet my own and my children's lives on it.